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Heavenly Blues
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:49:00 - [1051]
 


Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:58:00 - [1052]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 04/07/2011 09:31:04
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".

What about
- Remap for AUR?
- extra fitting slots for AUR?
- faction standings reset from deep negative to -5?
- 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?

These are not "items", they are "services".

Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.

And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).

EDIT: An out-of-game skill access tool is not P2W, and would atually make much sense. It should simply be a standard part of EVE, though, and not something we'd have to pay for extra.

They aren't pay to win as you'll see many capsuleers say as you don't need them to compete they 'enhance' your game. Is Evemon a 'win' feature, not required only makes managing your accounts easier, how about if you had to pay for it or similar program/site?

The point is the NEX will lead to more $ for 'stuff' sales, be they services like the above or actual content that would/should have been free like it USED to be but will no longer be. The one thing CCP will avoid, for a time or forever, is making those things 'required' or disadvantageous to your game if you don't pay for them. That way they can still fleece us for things we want, and many will pay for, without crossing that line of p2w that many people will say the above kinds of services aren't.

I don't see them as p2w but pay for advantage the difference is that sort of thing is what my sub covers, it should cover all game content period, but CCP disagrees.

Originally by: Doddie
About MT "plans", please tell me i misunderstood fact, that EVE and DUST markets will be connected. There will be MT in DUST 514, its clearly stated on DUST website. So, will MT will come to Eve via backdoors? Rolling Eyes

From http://www.dust514.com/en/news/article/1980/beginnings:

Economy
Our business model for DUST 514 differs from single retail purchase and optional premium DLC of other games on the market. Instead, DUST is designed to utilize virtual goods sales. I will leave details of the economy system to our resident economist, Eino Joas, who will go over all of this with you in a devblog soon-ish, but here is how this works on a high level:
DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace.



Yes it will, as far as we can expect seeing that CCP has not made any information about it available to us, the CSM, and the CSM didn't see fit to ask, at least according to the two CSM members who were only involved in teleconference for parts of the emergency summit. Please download and listen to eve radio's broadcast to hear their comments.

http://www.eve-radio.com/media/funkybacon20110701.mp3

Dust isn't done yet but as I mentioned before the meeting it will have an impact and it would have made sense to bring it up to CCP. Even if they hadn't worked out all the details yet so they'd be aware (since they don't 'get it') that they'd need to carefully look at how they make that interaction work. Realistically I don't see how they can allow p2w in dust w/o it infecting EVE w/ sov.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:04:00 - [1053]
 

Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Meanwhile in Iceland...


quality fix ;-)

Zarlis
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:39:00 - [1054]
 

So many weasel words when all you needed to say was:
- We will never introduce performance enhancing items to the store.
- We will bring back the old station screen and you will be able to access incana from there if you wish.

See how easy it is. Go back and try again.

Commander Criton
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:11:00 - [1055]
 

Well that has put my fears to rest and we get ship spinning back so I'm happy I have re-subbed for another 6 month.

Kusanagi Kasuga
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:39:00 - [1056]
 

I for one think that we need to see more information than this trickle of many words, little said.
It's time CCP spoke up and told us what it's plan for MT is in the future.

Which of the following are still being considered:
[ ] Ships for MT of any kind (ship skins don't count, full ships do)
[ ] Fitting slots for MT or other interface enhancements for AUR.
[ ] Establishments (ownership or use of) in Incarna for MT (I think this one is all but guaranteed)
[ ] Standings for MT
[ ] MT for Captains Quarters improvements (eg. stripper pole, kitty, Clear Skies couch)
[ ] MT for Incarna improvements (eg. transportation)
[ ] MT for insta-travel, insta-logistitics, or insta-anythingelse
[ ] In game services for MT that are currently limited by standings, ISK, or any other player specific factor (eg. Jump clones, LP store, Mission access, industrial services, etc)
[ ] SP for MT (Including SP transfers, dual-alt training, etc)
[ ] MT-based access to in-station areas
[ ] Restriction of current access to features with MT-unlocking (eg. Removal of current free clothing)
[ ] Other?

Your plans worry us because they are behind a veil of secrecy - it is not difficult for us to imagine that the reason you do not share this information is because you worry about our reaction to it. Not all of the above things are anathema to the community. A lot of them are. If you start talking to us about what you are planning, then perhaps we won't have to guess?

Maybe if you even went as far as to ~ask~ us what we would accept, you'd get somewhere. The player base won't be gouged, and we do expect our monthly subscription to get us more than we've been getting of late - it is not an insubstantial volume of cash we are giving you to develop and maintain the game we love - but we can be willing to compromise if we believe CCP is acting in good faith. You have not been recently.

E6o5
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:54:00 - [1057]
 

Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo
I would still like some more discussion on why CCP used evasive language, like "unfair" and game-breaking" instead of simply saying "game-affecting".

And why they only repeated "in the NeX store" when referring to non-vanity MTs, instead of saying no no-vanity MTs, period.

CCP did not deny non-vanity MTs outside the NeX store, at all.


CCP's statement means they have not denied, for example, special NPC agents that trade AUR for skill points at a fair price. That's just a hypothetical of course, but in short they did not deny any game-affecting MT that could be ended with the words "for a fair price."

And they did not deny any game-affecting MTs outside the NeX store, regardless.


This has been pointed out by a couple of people now, but no response whatsoever ...

Amaldor Themodius
Psykotic Meat
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:14:00 - [1058]
 

I am hopeful this puts the matter to rest and thankful the game development is not trending in the direction it appeared.

Zulu does actually sound like a nice guy.. Hilmar can still go eat a **** but Zulu im ok with. I am also going to continue my eve game relationship and will resub my accounts as they fall due.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:16:00 - [1059]
 

It's pointless posting in this thread any more, CCP have done enough to quell the upset.
Nothing has changed and the CSM have shown exactly how useful they really are.

Move along people. Very Happy

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:19:00 - [1060]
 

Thank you to all involved.

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:40:00 - [1061]
 

Ok. As I've already stated, the joint statements and the manlove video (whoever called it that, hats off to you. Made me chuckle) have gone a long way to placate me for the time being. I've also said that my Alt will remain unsubbed until I've read this promised influx of dev blogs explaining the reasoning for many things. 

I'm still made as hell that Incarna was released when even a quick check on some modest systems would've shown it melts GPU's. That was just sheer imcompantance on CCP's part and I would happily call anyone on their QA department an idiot to their face for not doing their job correctly. In fact I'll do it now. 

YOU'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!

However. 

One thing I support CCP in and that support has increased as I've read this thread is the issue of Multi-boxing. Some people really do want their cake, eat it and do an Oliver Twist and ask for more. 

Eve is internet ships and pew-pew. And we want them to be as pretty as possible. The drive for better graphics and the hardware that drives them is down to us. The gamers. We push the developers to squeeze every pixel they can from our systems. How do we push them? We buy the latest games that do just that. I'm building a modest gaming rig now to replace my two year old HP lappy. You can imagine how that liked Incarna. I'm building it so it meets the expected recommended spec requirement for the likes of Battlefield 3. So Eve should be a doddle for it.

But I have never for one moment expected it run more than one client of Battlefield 3 on full settings. And I've no need for it do so. But if I did, I would consider it as reasonable that the graphic settings would need to be lowered. And lowered again for 3 clients, same for 4 etc etc. Till it reached the point where the graphics couldn't get any lower or my equipment couldn't handle it. That understanding doesn't seem to extend, for some, as far as Eve is concerned.  

What's clearly obvious is that there are vocal minority who do not consider that reasonable. That Eve should run as pretty as possible, as many times as they want on as low a spec as they can afford and CCP shouldn't attempt to improve EVE (which they were trying to do but failed quite badly) if it means that they might have to drop a client. 

CCP's policy that the minimum spec is good for one client, on the lowest settings, is the correct one. As is the recommend spec for eve to run at it's best for just one client also. That is how the majority play the game and it means that CCP can develop the game to a set specification or give notice that the spec will be increasing. 

Technology moves on. Faster perhaps than we'd like it to. If running 6 clients is how you like to play EVE but want CCP to make it better, which WILL mean future spec bumps, then once CCP fix the graphics engine in Incarna, the brutal truth is this. 

Drop the settings or drop a client.

Or man up and cough up the dough to upgrade your gear or buy a second PC. If you actually do pay for six accounts, you can certainly afford it.

Just my opinion.

profundus fossura
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:49:00 - [1062]
 

Thanks CCP and CSM would love to have been fly on the wall at those meetings.

Despite the recent debacle I now have more respect for both CCP and the CSM and for the eve community as a whole than before.

I never even heard of the playerbase any other MMORPG being passionate enough to stage 10-15,000 player vitual riots (2500 each or several locations) constantly for what 2-4 days and on the ball enough to have threadnoughts clearing thousands of responses within an hour or so - this is a passionate community that I want to continue to be a part of.

Massive respect to the CSM for dropping everything and going out to iceland at the drop of a hat for what must have been pretty tough meetings.

Thanks and respect to CCP firstly recogniseing the issues and dealing with them (ok could have been faster) and for having the balls to try different and innovative things like DUST514 and for being willing (on occasion) to admit when they have ****** up which is more than almost any company I deal with is willing to do.

Finally a plea to CCP do not ever be scared of communicating plans/ideas with players even if you get a reaction on a scale of rthe last couple of weeks or bigger the time to worry is if you ever find there is no reaction.

Reafirmm
Quote:
null
ing my commitment to be here until either the hamsters or I give out. Very Happy


Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:54:00 - [1063]
 

Apology(s) accepted, and glad to have the vanity-only plan affirmed again officially in light of the leaked email. As always, it's nice to see a company take issues like this head-on instead of sneaking around in the shadows pretending there is no problem, as certain other MMO developers have been known to do.

That being said, let this be a lesson to all that the "MT everything" model pushed by certain "market analysts" outside CCP and with a tenuous connection to Western MMOs in general is a bunch of crap and there's a reason they're writing blogs and articles instead of making games. I bring this up because, aside from possibly some of the ongoing Lulsec aftermath, Monoclegate is currently the biggest controversy in the gaming world and a lot of people have their eyes on CCP and their reaction.

Kardose Plathian
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:03:00 - [1064]
 

Quote:
The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with „ship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.


Really - I actually feel CCP's pain for having to carry out this "political" update, the only thing I want is the distance/scale of ships corrected as it feels wrong.

I appreciate the lack of thought to the system overheads of multi account users was a bit daft from a commercial point of view however Eve does need to evolve and that means growing pains.

So CCP I commend your bold plans but not your sloppy execution

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:03:00 - [1065]
 

Edited by: Ranita Drell on 04/07/2011 18:09:36
Originally by: Soldarius
Third, I seem to recall a similar promise regarding microtraqnsactions in the first place. Something like "CCP has no plans to introduce microtransactions in Eve." Look where we are today. Now CCP promises there will be nothing but vanity items in NeX. CCP's credibility is degraded at this point. I sincerely hope they don't go back on this promise as well.

I think it was Meissa who said something along the lines of, "The source of the message matters as much as the message; the plans were new when CCP Wrangler told us no MT at all."

That's a fair point -- there's a difference between a random CCP rep saying something in passing on the forums, and the higher-ups telling the CSM something at an emergency meeting. However, it's not totally reassuring. Does it just mean that it'll be 16 months instead of 13 until a change of plans is put into action?

Also, it implies that what Wrangler said was untrue even at the moment he spoke of it. Whether intentionally or not, CCP's communication system failed then as well. We were also told that CQ would be optional at one point, and now we find that it isn't.

If CCP is really interested in rebuilding the trust it has demolished, I think a good first step would have been to explicitly acknowledge and apologize for their recent mistakes, not in general, but in specific so we know that they know exactly what they did wrong, that they understand the problems with what they did, and know how they might avoid such mistakes in the future. It would also show humility.

I see very little of that. And of course I also see vague, non-committal statements about the future of MT in EVE. Anybody schooled in communication will tell you that terms like "plan" and "game-breaking" in this context can be weasel words. If CCP couldn't, for good reasons, give us a more iron-clad assurance on this front, fine -- but they should have said that explicitly so nobody gets the wrong impression.

I also see CCP trying very hard to stick with the plan of force-feeding us CQ in contradiction to previous statements and the will of the community, but to make it seem OK by throwing us a bone or two that may partially address some of our concerns. I feel like I'd be able to trust CCP's overall message more if they abandoned this obvious loser of an idea, which appears to prioritize of MT sales over the total game experience.

On another note: it doesn't help anything to have people here telling those of us who are skeptical for the above-stated reasons that we "wouldn't accept anything from CCP" or that we're paranoid. These statements made be true in a few specific instances, but in general, it strikes me as an odd accusation to make, when nearly everyone seems to acknowledge that trust in CCP is at a deservedly at a low point, and CCP seems to be hedging in their communication instead of opting erring on the side of comprehensiveness and clarity.

For example, Meissa made a comment how it would've been silly or ridiculous to include the "no plan to plan to include non-vanity MT" in the statement ... which, sure, if you phrase it like that, it sounds too silly to put in a serious statement. But anybody with some facility with language could find some way to express that idea without it sounding silly. It's a valid concern that apparently somebody at the summit thought was relevant enough to bring up, and it's a concern that was at the crux of the big yellow question.

So what I see are continuing lapses in communication, even as we are promised better communication. However, some things in the statement (and in certain comments in this thread) are encouraging. For now, I'm going to try to put this mess behind me and ignore the cynical part of my mind that's telling me that CCP did the absolute minimum necessary to placate the majority of players and that the issues are far from resolved.

Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:40:00 - [1066]
 

You dudes do realize that the unsub button is the same place it's always been? If CCP in acts one of your nightmare semantic scenarios you can still push it again. People can protest and quit in mass again...

For now just accept what they said and stop being ******s. If it turns out to be a lie then we'll burn them to the ground. Until then gather up your bunched panties and dry your tears.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:01:00 - [1067]
 

Originally by: Dennie Fleetfoot


One thing I support CCP in and that support has increased as I've read this thread is the issue of Multi-boxing. Some people really do want their cake, eat it and do an Oliver Twist and ask for more. 

Eve is internet ships and pew-pew. And we want them to be as pretty as possible. The drive for better graphics and the hardware that drives them is down to us. The gamers. We push the developers to squeeze every pixel they can from our systems. How do we push them? We buy the latest games that do just that. I'm building a modest gaming rig now to replace my two year old HP lappy. You can imagine how that liked Incarna. I'm building it so it meets the expected recommended spec requirement for the likes of Battlefield 3. So Eve should be a doddle for it.




Well I never gave a **** about how pretty the damn game looks like, if you are into that sort of thing you might chase down the latest releases instead of playing a game that is 8+ years old, seriously. We can fly our ships from the star map and zoomed so far out you couldn't tell if you were in a frigate or a battleship who the **** cares how pretty it is?

Don't get me wrong prettier is nice but NOT at the cost of performance. As a gamer pretty much the only reason I upgrade at all is new games, seems counter intuitive to me to have to do it for an 8 year old game. I understand upgrades from the new things that are done, mainly to make eve pretty for new players, big surprise, and fancy boys who need everything to look new. "OMG the forums look like they are from the 90's lol!" These would be the type of people to not play a game from a few years back because it 'looks so old/crappy' even if it was an awesome game.

If I'm upgrading I might as well stop playing an 8+ year old game and pickup some of those games from the last few years I didn't play because I was playing EVE. Seriously why sink good money into a system to run EVE when there are dozens if not hundreds of titles I may not have played from the past year or two that are mostly really well made instead of buggy and unfinished? After a year or so those games drop to bargain prices close to a month's sub of EVE and I'd actually OWN them. CCP might want to think about that for the next push they make to chase down new customers with prettier graphics or to satisfy the fancy boys.

Your battlefield 3 reference is wrong, you get that game knowing what it needs to run and that doesn't change, ever, not the case with EVE. You know what I need in EVE my damn windows, my interfaces, my market, my cargo hold, my hangar, I don't actually need moderate or uber graphics to fly. So why do I need to be able to render them just to run the game if I rarely or never use them? Why does my system need to be able to render CQ BS which should be optional if I never want to use them? Why are we forced to deal with CQ at all?

Does EVE need to stand still for all time, of course not, but don't toss **** on me and call it confetti for a party of how awesome your **** is.

BTW: I'm actually okay with 2 clients, not in CQ of course that thing is a POS, beyond 2 I couldn't say as they aren't all up and I'm not reactivating them any time soon if ever.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.04 19:36:00 - [1068]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 04/07/2011 19:36:35
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Meanwhile in Iceland...

Actually, this one is more suitable.

Originally by: Mag's
It's pointless posting in this thread any more, CCP have done enough to quell the upset.
Nothing has changed and the CSM have shown exactly how useful they really are.

Move along people. Very Happy

You are sadly correct. Sad

Dirty Minx
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:07:00 - [1069]
 

Reading between the lines, its clear that a conclusion was reached during a strokey beard meeting, that increasing revenue at the required rate by increasing the number of subscriptions, hasnt been, and never will be possible. So to get the Marketing Director and his team off the hook, they probably had a brainstorming session to see how they could increase revenues from its existing player base. ( I can see the flipchart and marker pens now ). Knowing Marketing people like i do, they hold great sway in which direction a company moves, and that direction is usually given to them by the head honcho or honcho's, ie the Board, so they will ultimately get their own way. To put it plainly, everything CCP do is ultimately driven by income streams and profit. They will set up councils and player forums to give off the impression that they care and listen blah blah....dont be fooled into thinking their attitude and focus has done a complete U-turn. It hasnt. CCP will do whatever is necessary to increase its revenue regardless of a few protest threads. If you think the game is based around the needs and wants of its subscribers, then keep dreaming. The game is developed in accordance to a business plan, the main aims of 99.9% of all business plans is to turn a profit. If the wishes/gripes of a few computer nerds sitting in their houses doesnt follow in line with that business plan, tough, CCP will follow that business plan to the letter and deal with the consequences later. The introduction of a secondary currency, so toons can look nice, is laughable. Open your eyes people....what was wrong with using the standard in game currency to buy a pair of white towling socks and black slip on shoes? Thats the stark reality of the situation, and here are some stark solutions:
1) Sack the Marketing Director, and employ a decent one who can increase the player base.
2) Fix the game so it works; the station walking has worse graphics & performance than "half life" (1998)
3) Dont treat your customers like idiots and morons.
4) Show some loyalty to those who have been around since the start.
5) Start being honest.

Of course, CCP will do none of the above, and they will stick to their business plan. Just remember "All businesses will eventually fail if you do what you want, and not what your customers want". When the client base starts deserting, i guarantee CCP will be looking for a buyer for Eve, or even CCP itself. In fact, thats probably part of the business plan. Rant over...i could be wrong, but rarely am.






Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:34:00 - [1070]
 

Originally by: Commander Criton
Well that has put my fears to rest and we get ship spinning back so I'm happy I have re-subbed for another 6 month.


what?
you got ship spinning back? Where is it? tell us so we all can spin our ships,

Dan Estrellas Amigo
Posted - 2011.07.04 20:48:00 - [1071]
 

Edited by: Dan Estrellas Amigo on 04/07/2011 20:48:55
Only quoting here:

Quote:
It is CCP‘s plan that

the NeX store

will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements

in the NeX store.





This is the only thing CCP said about non-vanity MTs.

Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.07.04 21:58:00 - [1072]
 

Originally by: Dirty Minx
Reading between the lines, its clear that a conclusion was reached during a strokey beard meeting, that increasing revenue at the required rate by increasing the number of subscriptions, hasnt been, and never will be possible. So to get the Marketing Director and his team off the hook, they probably had a brainstorming session to see how they could increase revenues from its existing player base. ( I can see the flipchart and marker pens now ). Knowing Marketing people like i do, they hold great sway in which direction a company moves, and that direction is usually given to them by the head honcho or honcho's, ie the Board, so they will ultimately get their own way. To put it plainly, everything CCP do is ultimately driven by income streams and profit.


Welcome to capitalism!!!

What's most shocking is not people's reactions to what CCP is doing, but rather their total misunderstanding of why businesses exist in the first place. Hint: not to make you happy.

Note: CCP is an inanimate business entity - not your ****ing girlfriend, so stop acting like they've hurt your little feelings, ffs. Nothing personal, it's just business.

Bhaal Chinnian
Posted - 2011.07.04 22:02:00 - [1073]
 

If you define items as 'Pay to Win' to include such things that will 'enhance' a players ability to win then these things have & are already in the game. A nice example is the Price of a (hi-grade) Slave/Crystal Implant Set or,since Incursions started, go look at the price of the Lancer G2.5(Alpha or Delta). If you do not have time to grind Vanguard sites then those implants(each) will cost you roughly 2-3 PLEXES(as of todays market prices). Happy 4th!Shocked

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.04 22:15:00 - [1074]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 04/07/2011 22:17:31
Eve is hands down one of the most beautiful games in existence and that fact was a big part of what attracted me to the game (3 plus years ago). CCP should absolutely do everything possible to remain on the graphical cutting edge. I'm quite relieved that CCP isn't staffed with Devs who are into graphical blandness and Spartan aesthetics.

tl;dr: shiny and pretty is good.

Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:12:00 - [1075]
 

I'll just leave this here.

Wink

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:14:00 - [1076]
 

Originally by: Zarlis
So many weasel words when all you needed to say was:
- We will never introduce performance enhancing items to the store.
- We will bring back the old station screen and you will be able to access incana from there if you wish.

See how easy it is. Go back and try again.



actually your last statement should be reversed they will keep Incarna but they will be returning the "ship spinning" if you wish to use it (for a limited time offer, until the current system requirements equal Pre-Incarna requirements)

what i think they mean by "until the current system requirements equal the Pre-Incarna system requirements" is that until Incarna is playable on low-through-medium performance computers.

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:17:00 - [1077]
 

Edited by: Yulinki Atavuli on 05/07/2011 00:17:45
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
I'll just leave this here.

Wink


awesome!!! everyone who goes on the forums to troll should see that!!

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:27:00 - [1078]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 05/07/2011 00:27:38
I was waiting a few days before responding, there was a few spontaneous reactions, but thought a few days thinking might help to put it more straight to the point, so here goes:

a) the communications errors are mentioned, and CCP post some that is reassuring and 'positive', and some that is disturbing and 'negative'.
- The reassuring part is that CCP claims they will have a dialogue with CSM before doing major changes in NeX.
- The disturbing part is CCP has not addressed the lies from their upper management, and they have once again pointed to the NDA. That's not the transparency we've been promised, and one could wonder how effective the CSM will (or could) be if they are lied to and always have an NDA hovering over them.

b) there's a very disturbing phrasing from Zulu, regarding the vanity or non-vanity items subject:
"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
- "it is .. plan".. "there are no plans" .. "have been no plans". In two sentences, Zulu still refuses to say "we will never have non-vanity items in Money Trading. He just claims there's no current plans. CCP keeps the door open.

c) As contract, the summary from CSM has some pressure applied.
- I'm no fan of Mittens dramateurgy or 'elaborate bull****', but it was still fairly much right on. Was especially happy to see this quote: "The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."

Summary;
Less doomsday-feeling, somehow it doesn't feel like EVE is dying as much anymore. But the broken trust, from Hilmar in particular (who has been extremely arrogant, and absent!) from this drama, and the directives we know he gives inside to shut up (where's the transparency we were promised in light of t20 mr CEO?). The lies to both CSM and the playerbase.

All of the above leaves a sour taste, and I know that the effect is that I'll close at least six accounts based on recent actions. I'll step down my activity ingame, and won't be wearing my EVE-J!nx T-shirt anymore on nerdfes.. I mean gamer gatherings. Like, some weeks ago, at Dreamhack. And I can't any longer recommend this game to my friends. I.e. less income, less activity, and alot of free advertisement lost. But hey, I guess I'm just one of many, many, many customers. And some might actually enjoy and/or accept being lied to by CCP's upper management. Razz

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:36:00 - [1079]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Edited by: Misanth on 05/07/2011 00:27:38
I was waiting a few days before responding, there was a few spontaneous reactions, but thought a few days thinking might help to put it more straight to the point, so here goes:

a) the communications errors are mentioned, and CCP post some that is reassuring and 'positive', and some that is disturbing and 'negative'.
- The reassuring part is that CCP claims they will have a dialogue with CSM before doing major changes in NeX.
- The disturbing part is CCP has not addressed the lies from their upper management, and they have once again pointed to the NDA. That's not the transparency we've been promised, and one could wonder how effective the CSM will (or could) be if they are lied to and always have an NDA hovering over them.

b) there's a very disturbing phrasing from Zulu, regarding the vanity or non-vanity items subject:
"It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
- "it is .. plan".. "there are no plans" .. "have been no plans". In two sentences, Zulu still refuses to say "we will never have non-vanity items in Money Trading. He just claims there's no current plans. CCP keeps the door open.

c) As contract, the summary from CSM has some pressure applied.
- I'm no fan of Mittens dramateurgy or 'elaborate bull****', but it was still fairly much right on. Was especially happy to see this quote: "The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."

Summary;
Less doomsday-feeling, somehow it doesn't feel like EVE is dying as much anymore. But the broken trust, from Hilmar in particular (who has been extremely arrogant, and absent!) from this drama, and the directives we know he gives inside to shut up (where's the transparency we were promised in light of t20 mr CEO?). The lies to both CSM and the playerbase.

All of the above leaves a sour taste, and I know that the effect is that I'll close at least six accounts based on recent actions. I'll step down my activity ingame, and won't be wearing my EVE-J!nx T-shirt anymore on nerdfes.. I mean gamer gatherings. Like, some weeks ago, at Dreamhack. And I can't any longer recommend this game to my friends. I.e. less income, less activity, and alot of free advertisement lost. But hey, I guess I'm just one of many, many, many customers. And some might actually enjoy and/or accept being lied to by CCP's upper management. Razz


I guess the TL;DR-version of that is:
It is at times like these, where I will look more at what CCP do, than what they say.

HyperZerg
Posted - 2011.07.05 00:44:00 - [1080]
 

What do we know now that we didn't before the meeting ?
Okay ship-spinning comes back. Logic lore and gameplay wise.

Anything else ? No .. CCP doesn't need a plan to bring us ... let's say the NeX as they have just proven us.

Btw, I'm really interested in the numbers of accounts canceled. I know therese a list but I for myself canceled all my 3 accounts and I'm not in that list.

As Hilmar said, don't hear what they say, look what they do.


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