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Geksz
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.03 23:33:00 - [1021]
 

Originally by: Pierced Brosmen
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
My question is "what do you want"?
If your answer is:
- "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above.
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra)
- "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that

You missed one, and the one reason why I hate Incarna in it's current implementation
- "I don't want to be forced into Incarna for immersion reasons"
If you dock up to pick something up (like ammo), to complete or pick up a mission or simply, if you are in a fleet, waiting for the FC's command to all undock and engage... then why the hell would you be outside your ship... especialy the last example... You don't want to be standing on your balcony and first at the order to undock, start by having to get into your ship. Seriously.

For 8 years the backstory of EVE has been told us that getting out of the pod was a rather nasty experience for the pilot... Just because making Incarna the only way to dock bechause that was a convenient solution conserning development (and that having more players looking at their avatars would propably get more players to buy clothes), doesn't mean they should turn on their lore... That is sacred territory.

If I dock up to pick up missiles and see my character on the hangar balcony, my first thought would always be "What the hell did you get out of the ship for???". It makes no sense whatsoever and I would like CCP to give a blody good reasoning for why it is changed into the way it is from a storyline standpoint (and an explenation that doesn't include they want people to buy more sh*t from the NeX store or that they just want people to use incarna because CCP have done a lot of work creating it).

Now don't get me wrong. I've never been opposed to Incarna, I've wanted it ever since I first heard about it (walking in stations) in 2007. What I'm opposed to is the implementation.

I don't nessecarily want the exact old hangars back, but I want an initail view that suggests I'm still in my ship. I think CCP forcing people into Incarna and thus leaving the ship whenever they dock is a wrong move and that they should rather put some creative heads together to make up incentives for people to want to leave their ships (like ability to talk with agents within x number of jumps away and accept their missions, and not be limited to the agents in the station like when you are in your ship).

If you had a reason to "want" to leave the ship, cause it gives you advantages to staying in the shio, I think a lot more people would be happy about Incarna. Also, with a solution where you had to manualy go ti Incarna, there is nothing preventing a checkbox in the game menu, where you chose if you want to dock directly to Captains Quarters or not.

Unless CCP gives a good explenation on why leving the ship/pod all the time is a good idea, then I will not drop this subject. Or turning things around a bit... If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether....


THIS ^^

So many times this!
Especially the last part: "If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether...."

And there is also 1 more thing to this. When in CQ u are actually still in ur ship game mechanics wise... So CQ is wrong on so many levels!

CQ should be separated form in space and hangars with separate graphical settings! With current lore it will never be a seamless part of the overall EVE experience. WE ARE POD PILOTS! We live EVE in space, not in stations. If incarna will be fully done, with something to do in it, it will still be a different game IMHO.

Jean hunt
Posted - 2011.07.04 00:24:00 - [1022]
 

what a total lot of ****
CSM....what a joke ,,,,,'we agree....we agree....we agree'
***g0ts grow some balls ffs

Geksz
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 00:28:00 - [1023]
 

CQ / Incarna Stuff: If u take just CQ without it's issues, it is immersive, looking good, nice addition. It holds promise.

BUT:

  • Imagine, if u are a spaceship captain (not a POD pilot even) and u dock at a station to unload or pack in some stuff and immediately undock. U can just radio in to the station to do the loading and let ur crew handle the stuff. Why do u want to set foot in the station every time? We need that hangar view. Only CQ makes no sense. I still want to see some damn good reasoning behind this.

  • If i want to go to my quarters i should be separated form my ship and have a reason to go to my quarters or interact with other ppl in it or in a station enviroment.

  • I will LEAVE my hangar view to go to CQ if i'll have a REASON to do so.

  • In it's current form it is immersion breaking, lore breaking, reasource hog, PC breaking, and so on...

  • Without it's own 3D UI it just makes no sense. I can't see anything from it becouse of the many windows that one has to use to achieve anything in EVE.

  • EVE used to be a spaceship game...

  • EVE was, is and will be a 2D spreadsheet game at the core, and u just made it a lot harder to do stuff in it.
    We need a fast loading enviroment in station, that has all the neocom functionality.
    Actually if i just want to browse the market, refit, or reload i don't need nothing at the background. This door is even better then the old hangar view, and nothing will be faster loading then this. This option should be a permanent option to the game besides the CQ and hangar view for performance reasons. (laptops, old PCs)

  • Functionality and gameplay should come before shinyness...


Communication:

  • We need not just the WHAT but the WHY too. Pls in later expansions state WHAT will chnage and WHY before the expansion lands.

  • We need better feedback from devs in the test server feedback forums, and some notes on the actual SiSi build.


PsyOpWarfare
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:05:00 - [1024]
 

What a waste of time. I read nothing that would be me resub my accounts. What I read was your PR staff working overtime to try and get back the million dollars that you lost. The fact that two of your people sent two separate messages cutting us down and talking to us like we were nothing says something about the current state of mind. What happend to both of them that sent those messges to the players of eve? What disciplinary actions were taken? These are some of the things I want to know.

The meeting that was help showed nothing and the information that was released must have went across all the PR desk you guys have there.

I read nothing that would change my mind in leaving.

Way to go CCP hope your next mmo fails!

Mira Kale
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:12:00 - [1025]
 

Most people here are missing the important issues in this response:

- On difficulties of multiboxing clients with the new incarna environment: all they have said they will do is alter the stated minimum hardware spec on the website.

- On incarna environment always being optional: CCP seem set on forcing you to load it. Their current position is that once they have reintroduced ship spinning, the option not to load station environment will be removed.

Ms Tragula
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:15:00 - [1026]
 

Well for my money (money, lol) my fears have been addressed. Paranoid comments about ambiguity or 'wiggle room' in the latest statement from CCP, or the possibility of collusion by the CSM, are just that: paranoid. Like I posted in another thread about the protests: while there's no doubt that some conspiracy theories are accurate there are far more that are outright delusional, when your conspiracy theory has no evidential basis beyond paranoia you are in danger of losing touch with reality and sanity; just because something could have happened, doesn't mean it did.

While I personally had no problem with CQ (except that I'd like the smaller ships to actually look smaller from the balcony) and look forward to future in-station updates it's nice to see other people's issues being addressed there too. For me the protests were all about the NEX, its possible misuse, and the introduction of bucks for game-breakers, and I personally feel extremely reassured by CCP's statement.


I hope that, like me, a lot of players feel that this whole experience has actually been very positive. What other game is there where thousands of players can take part in a concerted protest, both in-game and out, over several days, have their voices acknowledged and then heard and responded to via a democratically elected parliament of fellow players flown to Iceland from around the world at the expense of the company? No other such game exists.

I played EVE for a while in its first year then I left and played a lot of other MMOs over the next 6 years, and I cannot over-stress that no other MMO even comes close to EVE for player-developer interaction and feedback. In fact it was an article I read about the CSM that reminded me why I loved EVE, and this stuff that's gone down in the last fortnight is exactly why I came back.

You earned a lot of respect in my book CCP, good job.

Utremi Fasolasi
Gallente
La Dolce Vita
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:24:00 - [1027]
 

Originally by: BIZZAROSTORMY
Originally by: Utremi Fasolasi
Is that really The Mittani? I never him expected to be so.... hotness. Wow. O_O

Another myth crushed...


You dont think they sent the real Mittani do you? thats one of the many Mittani voice Impersonators. Mittens never leaves his iron lung.


I see what you mean. Here is who "they" represented as The Mittani in 2009... looks nothing like same guy does it.. Very Happy

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/75310

hmm conspiracy or...

Wink

Ms Tragula
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:31:00 - [1028]
 

Edited by: Ms Tragula on 04/07/2011 01:32:17
Originally by: PsyOpWarfare
What a waste of time. I read nothing that would be me resub my accounts. What I read was your PR staff working overtime to try and get back the million dollars that you lost. The fact that two of your people sent two separate messages cutting us down and talking to us like we were nothing says something about the current state of mind. What happend to both of them that sent those messges to the players of eve? What disciplinary actions were taken? These are some of the things I want to know.

The meeting that was help showed nothing and the information that was released must have went across all the PR desk you guys have there.

I read nothing that would change my mind in leaving.

Way to go CCP hope your next mmo fails!



This post is exactly what I was talking about. Paranoid and completely closed-minded. In this person's mind the CSM are CCP stooges, or idiots, or else being completely and utterly lied to. Just because any of those scenarios are possible, that alone is no reason to believe any one of them.

Honestly, if you're still that ****ed off about it that there was nothing anyone could have said to satisfy you, why did you even bother protesting? Why are you still posting here? As for calling for disciplinary action against Zulu or Hilmar, well that just makes you sound like, at best, a naive child. Which you possibly are, or at least I hope so.

Not that any of this matters because you've unsubbed and will presumably be moving on to a different MMO. My advice is to pick an MMO and play it for a few years, wait for a few expansion packs and patches to go by that turn the overpowered class you rolled into puny cannon fodder running on a new graphics engine your PC can't cope with (a very common occurrence in MMOs), then try complaining about it on the forums, or looking for the in-game protest you can take part in, or the player delegation that will take your concerns to the developers... yeah... good luck with that.

BolsterBomb
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:49:00 - [1029]
 

There is nothing in this blog that restores any kind of trust. "We acknowlege" and "we apologize" are two VERY different things. CCP is a bunch of tards. It looks like the CSM got a nice trip out of it through.

Nothing in this blog is worthwhile, all thos ethat are appeased by it need to reread the blog.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:11:00 - [1030]
 

First, I would like to thank the CSM for taking the time out of their personal lives to address the issues on the players' behalf in the lanbd of ice and snow.

Second, after reading the statement and watching the video, I'm glad to see that both CSM and CCP having gotten something positive out of the experience.

Third, I seem to recall a similar promise regarding microtraqnsactions in the first place. Something like "CCP has no plans to introduce microtransactions in Eve." Look where we are today. Now CCP promises there will be nothing but vanity items in NeX. CCP's credibility is degraded at this point. I sincerely hope they don't go back on this promise as well.

We will be watching.

Drakprime
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:18:00 - [1031]
 

35 pages to read.... will punt and guess that the instigating API-for-cash stink got addressed? Or is it under the rug?

Theoer
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:26:00 - [1032]
 

I believe we have been told what we would like to hear in a form that can be changed later.

john roe
BearingPoint
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:20:00 - [1033]
 

/me saying hello from 'World of Tanks'.

i guess it's bye-bye, then.
just waiting for my accounts to expire (switching skills mostly).

after 7 years you have finaly did it, cccp.
kudos

o7

Brazero
Amarr
Noble House
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:27:00 - [1034]
 

Originally by: john roe
/me saying hello from 'World of Tanks'.

i guess it's bye-bye, then.
just waiting for my accounts to expire (switching skills mostly).

after 7 years you have finaly did it, cccp.
kudos

o7


This is exactly how I feel as well. After 7 years with this game, all there's left is some ***got RMT and lies, lies, and then some lies. The game went downhill from exodus, slowly at first, but then faster and faster. And now we are free falling........

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:37:00 - [1035]
 

meh... without playing eve for almost two weeks, I have had time to do other things that I find more enjoyable. It took all this BS to get such a simple reply back. As far as I am concered unless ccp does something extraordinary like implementing killing and combat in stations I will not be returning. having a safehaven like the inside of a station that you can play around in, pretty much turns eve into any other MMO out on the market. so I'll just play StarWars Old republic once it comes out. Same as eve once incarna fully launches, but with lightsabers.

Best Regards,
Lemmy Kravitz

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.04 07:02:00 - [1036]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/07/2011 07:18:05

"P2W items" were never a realistic option for the near future to begin with - outlash from the playerbase would have been way too hard.

The CSM managed to convince CCP to abstain from doing something that would not have been economically viable. Great Job!

The game-affecting MTs I am concerned about are those that would make great business sense for CCP to implement, not those that would suicide the company.

Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".

What about
- Remap for AUR?
- extra fitting slots for AUR?
- faction standings reset from deep negative to -5?
- 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?

These are not "items", they are "services".
They would not be "P2W" but "convenience" services - they would give you no direct or "unfair" advantage in combat, industry, ...
They would probably not be "game-breaking".
They would not have to be sold through the NeX (which is a store for items).
They would result in much less rage than "P2W items".

It's easy to talk about the points where the goals of the playerbase and CCP are aligned anyways.

The problematic areas are those that would gradually kill the "spirit" of EVE but not cause players to unsubscribe en masse.

Hel Xaphod
Posted - 2011.07.04 07:08:00 - [1037]
 

Originally by: Theoer
I believe we have been told what we would like to hear in a form that can be changed later.



I believe we have been spammed by lawyer nonsense that promises nothing, as well.

Motoko Kulotsuki
Posted - 2011.07.04 07:15:00 - [1038]
 

One account down, another ticking to zero. Still not convinced CCP can hold things together. CSM seem to be doing alright at the very least.

Sijakta Ho Pakrsh
Sultanate of Rum
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:55:00 - [1039]
 

Edited by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh on 04/07/2011 09:28:47


"Trust is the biggest liability of all. "

~Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #99

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:20:00 - [1040]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 04/07/2011 09:31:04
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".

What about
- Remap for AUR?
- extra fitting slots for AUR?
- faction standings reset from deep negative to -5?
- 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?

These are not "items", they are "services".

Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.

And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).

EDIT: An out-of-game skill access tool is not P2W, and would atually make much sense. It should simply be a standard part of EVE, though, and not something we'd have to pay for extra.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:45:00 - [1041]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 04/07/2011 09:31:04
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".

What about
- Remap for AUR?
- extra fitting slots for AUR?
- faction standings reset from deep negative to -5?
- 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?

These are not "items", they are "services".

Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.

And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).

EDIT: An out-of-game skill access tool is not P2W, and would atually make much sense. It should simply be a standard part of EVE, though, and not something we'd have to pay for extra.

soryy, I think I didn't make myself clear.

I was referring to the baility to store more than 50 fittings in teh fittings manager, not to actual extra slots on ships.

Da'gan
Posted - 2011.07.04 10:36:00 - [1042]
 

Ship spinning? People were bothered about that..?

My Postman
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:11:00 - [1043]
 

/supported.

Imo a good portion of this f*ckstorm could have been avoided, with proper communication. It was NOT "news" that many (or most) of the playerbase doesnīt want "gold ammo" or "god-mode-concord-frig" introduced with MT. Now lets go back to business and help ccp to locate and fix different bugs introduced with last expansion.

And thanks to the CSM as well.

Inspiration
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:11:00 - [1044]
 

Originally by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh
Edited by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh on 04/07/2011 09:28:47


"Trust is the biggest liability of all. "

~Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #99


Quoted form the book of pure wisdom and common sense: http://ucip.org/sims/map/RacePlanet/FerengiRules.html

Leylla Gainsborought
Fallen Angel's
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:16:00 - [1045]
 

Seems to me like CSM is a complete waste of time
"Agree to all we say and well throw you a bone" (ship spinning) so u can
save us a bit of face and return home not looking like the shambles that you are





Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.07.04 12:15:00 - [1046]
 

Did I miss something or was the only comment about the ******ed NeX prices :NDA: ?

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.07.04 12:56:00 - [1047]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"

There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____

Ship Spinning:

There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for:
1) we like to spin ships, it's fun.
2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.

CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns.
It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.


The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........

I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.

What are you setting us up for????????

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2011.07.04 13:06:00 - [1048]
 

You lot are fools if you think this was any kind of victory. A year ago CCP promised there would be no MT of any kind whatsoever. Within the year we will have MT for non-vanity game breaking things.

Anyone having any kind of trust in CCP is totally stupid, the trolls on these boards are more trustworthy. EVE is doomed and that is very clear.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:32:00 - [1049]
 

Originally by: Da'gan
Ship spinning? People were bothered about that..?
No, not really. But looking at that disingenuous blog, you would think so wouldn't you?

Doddie
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:37:00 - [1050]
 

About MT "plans", please tell me i misunderstood fact, that EVE and DUST markets will be connected. There will be MT in DUST 514, its clearly stated on DUST website. So, will MT will come to Eve via backdoors? Rolling Eyes

From http://www.dust514.com/en/news/article/1980/beginnings:

Economy
Our business model for DUST 514 differs from single retail purchase and optional premium DLC of other games on the market. Instead, DUST is designed to utilize virtual goods sales. I will leave details of the economy system to our resident economist, Eino Joas, who will go over all of this with you in a devblog soon-ish, but here is how this works on a high level:
DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace.


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