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blankseplocked This is ******ed, why is nullsec dependant on empire carebears?
 
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Simetraz
Posted - 2011.06.30 15:45:00 - [61]
 

OH one last thing in case someone is running numbers and saying how can it be efficient to run low ends to 0.0 in any amount to make it worth your time.

Nobody moves raw minerals to 0.0 it is all compressed.
To the tune of about 4 jump freighter loads for each Super Carrier.

To respect those that spent the time figuring out exactly how I will say nothing more.
Easy to guess though as that is no secret, but it appears the just about everyone uses a different cocktail.




Freddie Failquitter
Posted - 2011.06.30 15:47:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.

The paradigm that common minerals = highsec and rare minerals in null is ******ed. This just means the bulk of everything in the game is produced by the vastly overabundant and overpopulated nullsec, with specialty items and minerals being exported to jita. This encourages highsec (non)play, which has been shown by the players as a problem since eve has started


Would you like some cheese with that whine? Oh, and since you're obviously new around here, Welcome to Eve!

Sililos Sanura
Gallente
Rep-X
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:03:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 30/06/2011 15:46:25
Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.


Nullsec is to Africa as the western world is to empire. Do you know anything about Africa? It has fantastic natural wealth, just like nullsec. But, it suffers from underdevelopment, socio-economic disparities, and tribal warfare that can arise at a moment's notice, just like nullsec. Africa suffers from political pressures to acquire its resources. It's the same with nullsec. The RMT'ers don't want nullsec to be a stable place in the game. Otherwise, they couldn't keep everyone else out while they plunder its wealth.....just like Africa and the developed world.

Now, ask yourself, could you survive if European and American countries were dependent upon Africa? Well, why would you think Empire needs to be dependent upon nullsec?


Perfectly put.

+1

Jokesta
Gallente
Group 2
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:17:00 - [64]
 

The Africa example is very good. Essentially null sec is responsible for it's own lack of influence. I just returned to the game after break fora it and ALOT of the null sec alliance didn't exist when I left it's horribly unstable.


trying to turn an era of null sec into Nita would be like running the NYC stock exchange I'n central Europe I'n the middle of WWII the fact is ALOT of null sec seems only interested I'n trade to fuel the wars not just for trade. if someone set up a Nita equivalent it would get invaded not because someone wanted to control the trade but just to shoot people.

you live In the environment of your own creation.

andeira
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:19:00 - [65]
 

It can be like that just check out the chinese eve server

There it is like this: Drakes in high sec 40 mil in 0.0 30 mil
Most of the normal items are cheaper in 0.0 then in jita there.
Faction ammo is more expensive in 0.0 then in jita because the faction ammo comes from high sec mission runners.
faction modules/ships that drop in 0.0 are cheaper there then in jita as wel

Jokesta
Gallente
Group 2
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:08:00 - [66]
 

the Chinese eve server is a poor example. they have the population of single tranquility alliances over their whole server. when tranquility is at peak how many of he 60k people are I'n empire? probably more than half.

I only vague remember the Iss from when I started the game but imguessing the idea wasnt economically or time viable.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:11:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Alpine 69
Originally by: Ripley Nostromo
Originally by: WlliamRyker
Because empire is basically 100% safe and nobody would have to leave, you ******

Nullsec is 100% safe? Stupid fewl, not even close. Reetard...


Boy do I hope that you're trolling. Shocked


Actually confirmed null sec is more safe then empire 90 percent of the time in an year.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:16:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
This encourages highsec (non)play, which has been shown by the players as a problem since eve has started


Don't B.S. me about high sec being a "non play" area. If you removed your monocle from your posterior and used it on your eyes, you would see that high-sec can be just as active...without the blobs, I might add. Non play is crazyness like warping on to the grid only to freeze for ten minutes and wake up in a pod, never even having fired a single shot. I invite you to come out and play faction warfare, or be part of Privateers for a day. You'll see what "non play" goes on in hi-sec.

=eyeroll=

Go back to your local warning system, where you know who's around miles in advance and have time to prepare and set up a camp. Try doing that during an empire war in high sec... no bubbles, no bombs.

Riddick Liddell
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:23:00 - [69]
 

Paragon Soul
Providence
Tribute

Saying "null sec" means nothing. It's like saying "I live in the city"

Feel free to mine Veld in M-O or Ice in R3 though.

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:06:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.

The paradigm that common minerals = highsec and rare minerals in null is ******ed. This just means the bulk of everything in the game is produced by the vastly overabundant and overpopulated nullsec, with specialty items and minerals being exported to jita. This encourages highsec (non)play, which has been shown by the players as a problem since eve has started


I'm going to give you a possible answer, and I haven't read the other three pages. So hopefully someone hasn't already said this. But here goes.

There is a pretty easy answer. Because, when you go to Nullsec, and look in the belts, you'll see something. GIGANTIC Veldspar asteroids. Since asteroids that don't get mined seem to, erm, grow, this is indicative that people are not mining extensively for basic minerals in Nullsec. (I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that the scale is incredibly small when compared to Empire.) The reasons, primarily, that immediately come to mind are... security and logistics. You can safely park 6 Hulks and an Orca in Hi-sec, and not worry too much about it, and strip belts down your gullet to get all the common mineral goodness. You don't have to worry about roaming gangs popping into system, warping in on you, and bubbling you while you all try to get your orca (or Rorq) full of goodies aligned somewhere vaguely towards a safe POS. This leads me into logistics... Empire is simply lousy with stations, simple places you can run and dock up and store your crap. Nullsec has much much lower "station density", and even then not everyone can go to a station and expect to dock.

For much the same reasons as above, Industry in general in Null is a gamble. There are fewer stations and outposts with factory lines, and while you can set one up in a POS, is it worth the risk to dump massive minerals in, hit the "GO" button, and hope that no blob of supercapitals makes a fun run at destroying your POS / Reinforcing your station / Nuking the factory service? Logistically, it's a whole lot simpler to utilize the power of the stations and markets in high security space, and assuming your Sov holding alliance has capable jump pilots and some basic infrastructure, make JF or carrier/SC runs to bring supplies in. Nullsec is (generally) a free-for-all warzone with no guarantee you'll come out of the other side of the gate in one piece. Would you set up an armaments factory on the front line? (Or even in a protected rear area?) Nope. That's part of what made the US so important to the Allies in WWII - it was effectively a safe place to produce all the crap you need, then toss it on a ship and get it to the Front.

Also, regarding your "overpopulated nullsec"... you have GOT to be trolling. When I was young in eve, I did a Shuttle circuit of 50 jumps through nullsec. (Granted, at the time, PCU hovered around 16-20k.) I didn't see more than a handful of systems with more than 1 pilot in local, and most systems were completely empty. During my time with 0.0 Sov holding alliances (CoW and Init - initiate jokes now), it was pretty much the same outside of common travel routes and core station systems. When you do see systems that have the kind of population counts you see around high security space, you ran and hid (or prepared for battle) because odds are you were about to get into a fight. (Or get gang-banged into oblivion.)

CCP's made some changes to help that (ie, making it harder to get top end minerals in Hi-sec through mission loot reprocessing) but it remains just simply safer and more economical to use Hi-sec as your main supplier. (Except capital and supercap production, which is usually the cause of defense CTAs.)

Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:26:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Alpine 69
Notice the red part in bold. Nullsec ≠ Empire.

This is the danger associated with posting while drinking heavily at 09:00 am. Acuiring a monocole would help you see what I meant but didn't say. Please feel free to call me filthy names for awhile. (Off for another beer)...

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:30:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
The paradigm that common minerals = highsec and rare minerals in null is ******ed.


This is true. I've done a few L3 missions with my alt to raise her Duvolle standings here is what she can reprocess from modules (there are 500 here, we get about 20 each mission, sometimes less, sometimes more)

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

It's not enough to build a BC it's a good chunk of it. Not going to reprocess it, not before removing the named and going to a better station, it's just to show off...

Ideally empire should be the supplier of goods and lowsec the supplier of minerals but the game has gone a different path.

L4 missions give a lot more stuff of course.


Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:33:00 - [73]
 

Null sec is crippled and nerfed by having controlling powers lock outposts for nuetrals.

End of thread.

Remove outposts being locked outs, people will come and populate your markets in null sec.

Terrible idea you say?

You have no recourse to be butt hurt about empire being the defacto place to trade.

Very simple concept


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:34:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Viking Sven
Originally by: Raellah
You do realise that if the market were dependent on nullsec for goods and minerals then everything would cost at least 5x as much?


This makes no sense. There's open market competition in null, just the same as empire.


Because people will not mine tritanium in null unless it pay as much as high ends, and that before transportation costs.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:39:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 30/06/2011 15:46:25
Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.


Nullsec is to Africa as the western world is to empire. Do you know anything about Africa? It has fantastic natural wealth, just like nullsec. But, it suffers from underdevelopment, socio-economic disparities, and tribal warfare that can arise at a moment's notice, just like nullsec. Africa suffers from political pressures to acquire its resources. It's the same with nullsec. The RMT'ers don't want nullsec to be a stable place in the game. Otherwise, they couldn't keep everyone else out while they plunder its wealth.....just like Africa and the developed world.

Now, ask yourself, could you survive if European and American countries were dependent upon Africa? Well, why would you think Empire needs to be dependent upon nullsec?


Probably the best Eve analogy I have ever heard.

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:41:00 - [76]
 

This thread's argument is moot. You make it sound like nullsec doesn't have the common minerals that highsec does. Wrong. I have mined and manufactured in nullsec for about a year and I learned first hand how independent nullsec alliances can be from high-sec. Hell, my old corporation managed to mine enough materials (coupled with components built out of moon goo) out of nullsec to build an outpost of our own. The only reason anyone in the alliance needed minerals out of highsec is because they are short on time and need the resources "now", therefore they purchase them in highsec and transport them into nullsec.

Other than that, if they have the time, they can make it all out nullsec only.

Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry.


It already does. The components needed for T2 production can only come straight out of either lowsec or nullsec space (mercoxit and moon goo anyone?). Highsec can still operate on its own without nullsec resources, assuming it sticks to just T1 production only.

Montevius Williams
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:42:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.

The paradigm that common minerals = highsec and rare minerals in null is ******ed. This just means the bulk of everything in the game is produced by the vastly overabundant and overpopulated nullsec, with specialty items and minerals being exported to jita. This encourages highsec (non)play, which has been shown by the players as a problem since eve has started


Commander Riker, report to the Bridge please!

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:50:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
T(mercoxit and moon goo anyone?)


Just got mercoxit today from a L3 mission in 0.9.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:59:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Koragoni SkyKnight
Originally by: RiskyFrisky
Quit your *****ing. No one cares about you QQing about not being able to skyrocket prices.


Spoken like someone who's never participated in alliance logistics.
I remember the pre-JF and pre-JB days.


now those were the days of combat logisticsCool

Fore Khaos
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:15:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Spurty
Null sec is crippled and nerfed by having controlling powers lock outposts for nuetrals.

End of thread.

Remove outposts being locked outs, people will come and populate your markets in null sec.

Terrible idea you say?

You have no recourse to be butt hurt about empire being the defacto place to trade.

Very simple concept




Providence?

Vladkar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:23:00 - [81]
 

War is waged over resources. Why would two entities wage war on each other for territory if the resources are all available in high-sec anyway?


Zyress
Posted - 2011.06.30 19:59:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Viking Sven
Edited by: Viking Sven on 30/06/2011 15:13:30
Originally by: Raellah
If you don't understand the obvious reasons as to why having markets dependent on nullsec for ores/mins/items would end up massively increasing the cost to the buyer, then i am certainly not going to waste my time explaining it to you. Laughing


That's not the intent at all. The point is to make trit easier to get in null; as an example solution CCP could increase the trit amount from refined ABC ores. You can still mine veldspar, buy it, sell it, etc. in empire just fine.

Right now, while there are less profitable ores in null, they're not worth mining. As was pointed out, it's easier to mine expensive ores, move them to empire, sell them, buy trit with said monies, and then jump the trit back to null. This has inflated the trit prices in empire and makes manufacturers in null rely on high sec carebears for their trit.

Nobody is saying 'make manufacturing of everything only occur in null'. Yes, that would increase the price of everything 5x, and it would also be stupid and useless. The point of this thread (even though OP didn't explain it for ****), was to reduce null's dependence on empire for the low end ores.


I'm not a miner but from what I'm reading here your dependence on hi-sec trit is only because your miners go for the higher margin ores available to them out there. If you don't want to pay "inflated" empire prices for trit, then mine your own out there, obviously the miners don't think the price is so inflated that it isn't still in their best interest to mine the higher margin stuff.

Javja
Posted - 2011.06.30 20:10:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.

The paradigm that common minerals = highsec and rare minerals in null is ******ed. This just means the bulk of everything in the game is produced by the vastly overabundant and overpopulated nullsec, with specialty items and minerals being exported to jita. This encourages highsec (non)play, which has been shown by the players as a problem since eve has started


Pssh! Why not get rid of high sec altogether? Turn it all into 0.0

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.07.02 08:18:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 30/06/2011 15:46:25
Originally by: WlliamRyker
It should be the other way around, the high-sec economy and jita should be dependent on nullsec industry. You know, people who play EVE online.


Nullsec is to Africa as the western world is to empire. Do you know anything about Africa? It has fantastic natural wealth, just like nullsec. But, it suffers from underdevelopment, socio-economic disparities, and tribal warfare that can arise at a moment's notice, just like nullsec. Africa suffers from political pressures to acquire its resources. It's the same with nullsec. The RMT'ers don't want nullsec to be a stable place in the game. Otherwise, they couldn't keep everyone else out while they plunder its wealth.....just like Africa and the developed world.

Now, ask yourself, could you survive if European and American countries were dependent upon Africa? Well, why would you think Empire needs to be dependent upon nullsec?


Basically, this.


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