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Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.

Ayame Yubari
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:48:00 - [2]
 

Ok. Next.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:51:00 - [3]
 

:facepalm:

Tane Enat
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:52:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


You're right, but you're trying to argue against proven idiots.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:53:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Tane Enat
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


You're right, but you're trying to argue against proven idiots.


I would like to point out that I'm not arguing in this thread

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tane Enat


You're right, but you're trying to argue against proven idiots.


Its not like there are about 500 threads arguing along these exact lines allready. Why about... you know, post in one of those. But NOOO, special snowflake want his own thread.

Jannx
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:57:00 - [7]
 

EVE... the game for rich people with no social skills. Yeah, that'll work!

Rolling Eyes

Irie Irie Irie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:57:00 - [8]
 

Plex do not introduce a market which is not controlled by the playerbase. Thanks for being about 2 weeks too late to make another dumb thread about this.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr
Divine Power.
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:57:00 - [9]
 

1/10; a derivative work of several threads already on the front page, failed to pull in any anger

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.30 08:59:00 - [10]
 

Couldn't decide which of these two replies I should post:

a) 3/10
b) Look at you Miz, look who's whining.

Then I realised you made me reply, so the 3/10 was a bit low. This post is some kind of compromise, now I got to say b), but same time I can upgrade the three to a 5/10. Grats? Razz

Can of Beans
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:04:00 - [11]
 

I can't understand why the special people make their troll posts so long.

RasTrent
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:07:00 - [12]
 

i fully approve of bashing peasants.

however you do not have the proper attire to class yourself above said peasants.

please take care of these matters in a fashionable manner.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: RasTrent
i fully approve of bashing peasants.

however you do not have the proper attire to class yourself above said peasants.

please take care of these matters in a fashionable manner.



THEY ARE FINALLY SELLING PITCHFORKS?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:08:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: RasTrent
i fully approve of bashing peasants.

however you do not have the proper attire to class yourself above said peasants.

please take care of these matters in a fashionable manner.



If i showed you my monocle you would feel like peasant too .
It is just hidden from the likes of you.

Garcia Fox
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:09:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


Trolls are funny.

Trolls that can't spell along with bad grammar give other trolls a bad rep!

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:10:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: RasTrent
i fully approve of bashing peasants.

however you do not have the proper attire to class yourself above said peasants.

please take care of these matters in a fashionable manner.



If i showed you my monocle you would feel like peasant too .
It is just hidden from the likes of you.


You too, got a rectococle? That's some fine **** indeed.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Reilly Duvolle
Its not like there are about 500 threads arguing along these exact lines allready. Why about... you know, post
in one of those. But NOOO, special snowflake want his own thread.


RazzRazzRazz


Best post today ugh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:15:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money
No. The perception is that in-game items can be bought limitlessly for real money because it doesn't involve the market.

The perception is also/alternatively that items in this store might be better than the ones that can be had through the market (because if they aren't, why on earth would anyone ever be stupid enough to buy them?).

Both of which mean that it's not anything like how it works with PLEX, so the two are not comparable. With PLEX, you are only able to pay for as much win as the market is willing to sell you, using the same items that everyone else have at their disposal to win over you.

Whether either of these perceptions is reality or not has yet to be seen.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:16:00 - [19]
 

PLEX isnt pay to win or buying magic goods, its a pragmatic way of killing off isk sellers (and their bots) whilst increasing CCPs game revenue and player experience (more targets), at least now when OP buys PLEX hes not risking a negative wallet or ban, so he should be grateful.

OP lives in bubble just like the Czars and he knows what happened to them.


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.30 09:21:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Avon on 30/06/2011 09:21:15
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


Miz, I know you're trollin' but...

Plex was never pay to win - People with money but no ISK could effectively buy ISK and enjoy all the parts of Eve that people with lots of ISK could.
Everyone played with the same toys, and those toys formed part of the Eve economy.

Where a plex was purchased for ISK and converted to gametime the system was in equilibrium ($15 for the plex, -$15 subscription from the person who redeems it). - I know there is an oversupply of PLEX that the market has not adjusted for, but the price *should* be dictated by supply and demand and will be the price that the marked can sustain.

With $ for "better" items we have a different situation.
Firstly, there is no -$ balancing factor (which is great for CCP)

Secondly, items are introduced to the game which cannot otherwise be obtained through normal gameplay (this is a deal breaker) - even if the people who pay $ for these items sell them for ISK supply will always be dictated by the amount of $ sent to CCP, rather than time invested in playing the game. No amount of gameplay is rewarded.

Thirdly, it avoids the manufacturing system. The Eve economy depends on the flow of ISK between players, be it miners, manufacturers, moon goo overlords, researchers, datacore farmers - whatever. All those steps are bypassed. ISK flows only to the person who spends $ from the person who purchases the product - this is a bad thing.

Finally, improved items become a requirement to compete in the game. This isn't an issue when they are part of the game, and can be acquired through gameplay - but when you have to pay $ to play on an even footing (assuming demand outstrips supply for those items), something is wrong .... and on the flipside, if everything that is desireable can be bought what is there left to fight for?

Of course, this isn't the worst case senario - I can certainly imagine a situation where "win" items are bound to the purchasers account, *forcing* people to pay $ to get the items, rather than buy them for ISK from people who paid $.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with the concept of micro-transactions. I would be happy for just about anything which is currently an ISK sink to have a $ pricetag, and I'm not too bothered about vanity items - however, I would rather there was an option to purchase limited run blueprints for vanity items so that they could be produced by players using resources harvested by players - much better for the virtual economy.

Personally I could afford to live in a micro-transaction Eve, but I don't want to and I don't expect I would. Not because of the cost to me, but because of the cost to the game.


edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.30 10:07:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: edith prickley on 30/06/2011 10:28:02
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03
Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.


The NEX store competes with the player market for your ISK. Even if it only contains vanity items, and even if you never spend a real dollar on it, the ISK->Plex->Au which you spend at the NEX store is ISK not spent on goods and services provided by players as their in-game jobs.

That is different for PLEX. When you sell a PLEX for ISK and spend that on the market, maybe as an individual you are "paying to win." But in that case the win is coming from player generated goods and services. You're contributing demand to the in-game economy, and everybody wins at some level.

The microtransaction/P2W argument is not about fairness. Have enough real-world money or time, you can already buy as much success as you like in EVE compared to the people who don't. The argument is about keeping the in-game economy relevant and not letting it become a WoW-style auction house.

Anyhow, I wasn't reading forums when PLEX was introduced, but I imagine it was not done without some of the spirited debate we've seen the last few days. "Free" game time plus some anti-RMT arguments won the day, I guess.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.06.30 10:10:00 - [22]
 

You know what? I can't be bothered being angry at people like you anymore, at least I'll rest easy knowing if CCP actually keeps going through with these ridiculous changes to the game you won't be able to play it either.

JMERCENARY
Posted - 2011.06.30 10:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


Hey Mij sup?
This is the original Intruders character if you remember.
This is my mining alt of the same era.
Is there a way we can contact Bozl1n and get Intruders back?

He is not responding in his EVE regular registered email address I think. I believe he hasn;t dealt with EVE long time ago, even his facebook page is not updated. I hope he is ok. I bet he has been married and that;s why he doesn;t play EVE anymore. Razz

I would appreciate it for any help. Thank you.
Send me a PM in game in this character if you have any info on how i can get to him.

Much thanks.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:14:00 - [24]
 

Cry hard peasants. Cry hard.

Revanean
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:16:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Tane Enat
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 30/06/2011 08:47:03

Pay to win came in when Plex was introduced, yet the public outcry was negligible because all of a sudden real life peasants could play eve and pay their subscription with ISK. The RL peasants were happy.

With the new store, the perception is thatin game items can basically be bought more directly for real money and so the very same peasants are in an uproar because they know they can't afford to do so.

If you were going to revolt against pay to win, you should have done so when Plex was introduced, to do so now is hypocritical.
Every single person who has complained about this is a hypocritical peasant inbred who should have spent less time sleeping with their sister and more time getting a proper job that pays proper money.
Bring in usable in game items direct for cash CCP, those of us with jobs will offset in spending the loss of subs of the peasants currently scraping together their subs from their childrens piggy banks.


You're right, but you're trying to argue against proven idiots.


I would like to point out that I'm not arguing in this thread


Does that make you an unproven idiot? :P

A Little Girl
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:16:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Cry hard peasants. Cry hard.


But.... you are not even wearing a monocle!

*Points* One of us! One of us! One of us!

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:19:00 - [27]
 

Bad troll...

Oh, hold on..

*looks at replies*

My mistake.

Carry on.

Mr Epeen Cool

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:23:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Cry hard peasants. Cry hard.

Seems the only one crying is you. Since every "peasant" in this thread, and hence the only relevant ones, have been quite unwhinelike with their posts.

Also, what do you define as peasants? RL poverty/lack of power of which you would have no knowledge or in game poverty/lack of power... again of which you would have no knowledge unless you knew the person.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:23:00 - [29]
 

Eve online is a business.
CCP are here to make money. That is what they care about and rightly so. In an increasingly competitive Market new sources of revenue must be developed.
CCP has stated that it expected whiplash from the introduction of NEX and was expecting canceled subs. Do you honestly think they hadn't done the math? LOL.
They were prepared for the peasants to leave the game and frankly it will be a better place in game without the whiny lil inbreds.
All the leaked mail confirmed was that CCP is out to maximise profits. Shock horror! A business maximising it's profits! Everyone who had not grown up living inside their sister inside a cardboard box already knew this.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:41:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Silas Cooper on 30/06/2011 16:41:56
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Eve online is a business.
CCP are here to make money. That is what they care about and rightly so. [b]In an increasingly competitive Market new sources of revenue must be developed.


That is nonsense, brought to you by idiots, jokers who got some "business degree", managers and people who have no real clue (which all is essentially the same thing).

First of all, as long as they stay in their niche there ARE no competitors and as long as they nurture their product no company will dare to even TRY to get in their market. Slow growth while sticking to your initial niche strategy works in this case, listening to idiots gets you where CCP is now. Having a speciality niche product can be very profitable and worthwhile, as long as you don't hire too much staff and get some idiot in control (ie banks and investors) who goes "I'll be gone in 3 years so if I want to get some extra bonuses I'll think of short term growth, who the fck cares what happens after I leave".

If you try to convert your niche product and company style to please the mass market, THAT is where stuff fcks up (like we see now). EVE is flawed in many ways, it lacks severe polish. The general market that's used to brilliant products like WOW really isn't going to be won over by the crappyness that is EVE, in that respect.

And no, using plex isn't the exact same as non-vanity items for Aurum, read Fearless again as it has a good explanation. Fact is that CCP has had non-vanity for aur on the plan for a while, the current CSM meeting proves this as they're not touching the subject till tomorrow taking a WHOLE DAY for it. People who have a brain and can use logic realised this, only morons (and trolls like the OP but also a moron) said it would be "ok".



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