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Dana Jass
Caldari
Skullduggery Inc
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:41:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Akita T
I am quite well informed.
I don't like the idea of having to spend cash to "win".
I will make no comment about my proximity to bridges or other architectural landmarks.
I am not a CCP alt, nor is anybody paying me to express my particular opinion.

By your logic, I either MUST be a troll or not exist at all in the first place.



Well yeah, I always assumed you were a shared hallucination.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:45:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Kana Ahrire
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 29/06/2011 16:45:38
Originally by: Kirkland Langue
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
As long as PLEX can be bought for ISK it's false that you must pay money.


The only way that PLEX are created is by converting a GTC. If CCP were to put PLEX on the market, and sell them for ISK, then your statement would be correct - but they don't. CCP just allows players to trade PLEXes between each other.


This doesn't make any sense. PLEX are on the market and in contracts for ISK already... Players don't have to trade them they can buy and sell them for ISK. This is done every day and there's no reason to think it will change. There's also no reason to think that if somehow it did change that CCP would do nothing and watch their econcomy implode.






Lol, those plex's already on the market? yah, where did they come from? did the stork bring them from some magical fairy land where things just pop into and out of existence? no.

they were bought WITH REAL MONEY..



Wow people, engage your brain.

The person who initially buys a PLEX may buy it for various reasons. The only pertinent PLEX in this argument are the one's that were purchased to resell for ISK. Once this is done the player that spent real money got what he wanted, namely ISK, and that part of the process is over.

The person that buys a PLEX with ISK may do so for many reasons, but the only relevant one to this conversation are those that were purchased with ISK to buy AURUM. He has spent no money, and no matter what he buys he cannot be classified by any normal definition as "paying to win".

A person CAN buy a PLEX directly for cash, keep it for themselves and convert it to AURUM, and the buy NeX items. If this were the case technically you could define this as pay to win. Granted, it is a very inefficient and round about way of doing so, and it would require advantage granting items to be available items that were only available using this method.

However, since PLEX can be purchased with Cash, OR purchased with ISK, the definition of a pay to win item no longer applies. You can always obtain any item in the NeX with either cash OR ISK.

Pay to win can't exist because the items are readily available to those that do not pay a cent more than their subscription fee.


Painpill
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Ayame Yubari
Vkhaun is funny.

$ = Plex
Plex = AUR
AUR != $?

It's dawning on me why you bought a monocle. Maybe a lack of intelligence? Although, this hardly needs any to figure out, so I'm not sure.


To repeat what he said so even you can understand

$ = Plex
Plex = ISK
ISK = $???

I think CCP would like a word with you if thats how you think

Also the correct way to se it is :

ISK = Plex
Plex = AUR
AUR = ISK

PS. For all the re-tards out there PLEX where originally introduced to combat the NC's RMT empire, and as a way to divide the GTC's in to what GTC's originally was

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:46:00 - [64]
 

No they just have their various workers who normally play other games using alts to post rather than allowing them to play other games on work time...

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:48:00 - [65]
 

Let me emphasize the key point in my post above.

Quote:
Pay to win can't exist because the items are readily available to those that do not pay a cent more than their subscription fee.

Ariel Nova
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:49:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 29/06/2011 16:45:38
Originally by: Kirkland Langue
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
As long as PLEX can be bought for ISK it's false that you must pay money.


The only way that PLEX are created is by converting a GTC. If CCP were to put PLEX on the market, and sell them for ISK, then your statement would be correct - but they don't. CCP just allows players to trade PLEXes between each other.


This doesn't make any sense. PLEX are on the market and in contracts for ISK already... Players don't have to trade them they can buy and sell them for ISK. This is done every day and there's no reason to think it will change. There's also no reason to think that if somehow it did change that CCP would do nothing and watch their econcomy implode.






Wow.. I thought you were just trolling Vkhaun, but it appears you really don't get it.

Plex is on the market because people converted GTC at $35.00 a piece.

there are tons of PLEX on the market because those, like myself, buy them and don't use them. there are more PLEX being dumped into the market than being consumed.

just because YOU didn't spend cash on the PLEX doesn't mean it wasn't created with cash.

the Nex store IS nothing more than a PLEX sink, a way to turn the community into development dollars.

Pre-Incarna.. every PLEX created left CCP in limbo with the funds they received from the GTC. Because the plex could be applied to anyone's subscription, donated to charity, or blown up in space.

Post-Incarna.. people like you, dump PLEX into the NeX store, therefore ending the limbo on those PLEX. In effect, you donated the PLEX directly to CCP's development of anything (most likely not Eve)

For that, on behalf of CCP, I will say:

"Thank you, come again!"




Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:56:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Ariel Nova
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 29/06/2011 16:45:38
Originally by: Kirkland Langue
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
As long as PLEX can be bought for ISK it's false that you must pay money.


The only way that PLEX are created is by converting a GTC. If CCP were to put PLEX on the market, and sell them for ISK, then your statement would be correct - but they don't. CCP just allows players to trade PLEXes between each other.


This doesn't make any sense. PLEX are on the market and in contracts for ISK already... Players don't have to trade them they can buy and sell them for ISK. This is done every day and there's no reason to think it will change. There's also no reason to think that if somehow it did change that CCP would do nothing and watch their econcomy implode.






Wow.. I thought you were just trolling Vkhaun, but it appears you really don't get it.

Plex is on the market because people converted GTC at $35.00 a piece.

there are tons of PLEX on the market because those, like myself, buy them and don't use them. there are more PLEX being dumped into the market than being consumed.

just because YOU didn't spend cash on the PLEX doesn't mean it wasn't created with cash.

the Nex store IS nothing more than a PLEX sink, a way to turn the community into development dollars.

Pre-Incarna.. every PLEX created left CCP in limbo with the funds they received from the GTC. Because the plex could be applied to anyone's subscription, donated to charity, or blown up in space.

Post-Incarna.. people like you, dump PLEX into the NeX store, therefore ending the limbo on those PLEX. In effect, you donated the PLEX directly to CCP's development of anything (most likely not Eve)

For that, on behalf of CCP, I will say:

"Thank you, come again!"






maybe if you bought a monocle your vision wouldn't be so clouded

as it is, you just sound angry and jealous

Jet Aeon
Gallente
Two Smoking Barrels
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:04:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Ariel Nova

Post-Incarna.. people like you, dump PLEX into the NeX store, therefore ending the limbo on those PLEX. In effect, you donated the PLEX directly to CCP's development of anything (most likely not Eve)

And the bright side of the NX is that it takes massive amounts of ISK from the ultra wealthy when it goes into the sink only to be later redistributed to other players. In short, the NX was created to help close the gap on wealth. In the end the wealthy end up with less money and an item that has no use to help in regaining that wealth.

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:06:00 - [69]
 

Who are you? Never seen you before.

Rakshasr
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:06:00 - [70]
 

... I think that monocle should be renamed to trollocle ...

Jet Aeon
Gallente
Two Smoking Barrels
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:12:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Bad Messenger
Who are you? Never seen you before.

Me? I'm a CCP Alt.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:15:00 - [72]
 

Their could well be CCP alts on the forum.

But the main reasons the outrage has died down are 2.
1 People are waiting to see what comes out of the CSM meeting.
2 Fatigue.

Jet Aeon
Gallente
Two Smoking Barrels
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:16:00 - [73]
 

Reason #3: It's nap time.Crying or Very sad

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:18:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 29/06/2011 18:18:45
Also Im guessing most the new faces wearing monocles and posting are old players who probably stuck a monocle on an alt and started trolling with it just for the LOLz.

Even I was tempted to do that.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:18:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/06/2011 18:19:08
Originally by: Ghoest
Their could well be CCP alts on the forum.

But the main reasons the outrage has died down are 2.
1 People are waiting to see what comes out of the CSM meeting.
2 Fatigue.


I have to agree with this.

On the plus side, now that the deluge of protest posts has died down there are a surprisingly large number of posts from people who have a different point of view on the whole thing.

That's a bit of a misnomer. There were plenty of posts showing the other side of the argument all along, but they were immdiately lost in the storm and pushed back to page 5 before they could be viewed.

Jet Aeon
Gallente
Two Smoking Barrels
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:20:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Edited by: Ghoest on 29/06/2011 18:18:45
Also Im guessing most the new faces wearing monocles and posting are old players who probably stuck a monocle on an alt and started trolling with it just for the LOLz.

Even I was tempted to do that.

You can bet the price of a monocle that none were bought for the vanity of it. It's just troll hardware.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:24:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: RJBlues
Edited by: RJBlues on 29/06/2011 15:10:10
Originally by: Das Oskold
No way in hell as many people come out of the blue whom we've never seen before and start supporting CCP any other way.


Perpetuum dev spotted..

In all seriousness tho.. People do have differing opinions. Live with it.

"weve never seen before"... I wish I was like you and remembered the name of every character, alt and variations thereof from 300+ thousand people.


Opinion is just a word people use when they know they are wrong.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:25:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Kuronaga
Originally by: RJBlues
Edited by: RJBlues on 29/06/2011 15:10:10
Originally by: Das Oskold
No way in hell as many people come out of the blue whom we've never seen before and start supporting CCP any other way.


Perpetuum dev spotted..

In all seriousness tho.. People do have differing opinions. Live with it.

"weve never seen before"... I wish I was like you and remembered the name of every character, alt and variations thereof from 300+ thousand people.


Opinion is just a word people use when they know they are wrong.


Ahh, that's YOUR opinion. Wink

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:27:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Jet Aeon
Originally by: Ghoest
Edited by: Ghoest on 29/06/2011 18:18:45
Also Im guessing most the new faces wearing monocles and posting are old players who probably stuck a monocle on an alt and started trolling with it just for the LOLz.

Even I was tempted to do that.

You can bet the price of a monocle that none were bought for the vanity of it. It's just troll hardware.
all we need now is a top hat and a cane.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:30:00 - [80]
 

No.


I'm always right.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:33:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Mytzso
Dear peasants, I hereby proclaim that the Monocleers are in no way associated with this CCP you are mentioning.

Please do not attempt overloading your cognitive capacities, as they were not intended to exceed the demands of manual labor. I demand you cease and desist using these fine forum channels as they were intended for the use of higher class of players.

For heaven sakes, do use your soap rations.



still roleplaying richie rich,,, lol


Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:39:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
all we need now is a top hat and a cane.


+ twirly mustache...

Boaz Hedion Merkava
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:40:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Boaz Hedion Merkava on 29/06/2011 18:44:33
Edited by: Boaz Hedion Merkava on 29/06/2011 18:43:57
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 29/06/2011 15:07:32
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=bigshot&cid=90699938Please visit your user settings to enable images.
I admit it.
I was hired by CCP.

If they could be honest with you they would, but basic customer service prevents them from telling you the truth of how ridiculously wrong you all are. You left them with no choice, really. They had to send someone like me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. I am a spamming flaming guardian. A watchful protector of their reputation. A Dark Monocle.YARRRR!!



O M G !


Spock bought a monocle!

Anyway, yes, OP is right. Much posters are only posting for one day.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.29 18:50:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Skex Relbore on 29/06/2011 19:32:48
Originally by: Jet Aeon
Originally by: Ariel Nova

Post-Incarna.. people like you, dump PLEX into the NeX store, therefore ending the limbo on those PLEX. In effect, you donated the PLEX directly to CCP's development of anything (most likely not Eve)

And the bright side of the NX is that it takes massive amounts of ISK from the ultra wealthy when it goes into the sink only to be later redistributed to other players. In short, the NX was created to help close the gap on wealth. In the end the wealthy end up with less money and an item that has no use to help in regaining that wealth.


It's not an ISK sink. It's a Plex sink. The NEX store doesn't remove any isk from the economy. nothing in the entire process results in isk removed from the economy (well except for market fees and taxes if the plex is traded for isk) But a plex is.

That plex once removed ceases to be a liability on CCP's books and reduces the supply of plex there by increasing the demand for new plex which will result in someone breaking their credit card out and giving CCP some money.


Ramelius
Posted - 2011.06.29 19:16:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Ramelius on 29/06/2011 19:17:14
Originally by: Mytzso
A CCP PR Dude



Suck it sir we know who and what you are.

Jet Aeon
Gallente
Two Smoking Barrels
Posted - 2011.06.29 19:17:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore

It's not an ISK sink. It's a Plex sink. The next store doesn't remove any isk from the economy. nothing in the entire process results in isk removed from the economy (well except for market fees and taxes if the plex is traded for isk) But a plex is.

That plex once removed ceases to be a liability on CCP's books and reduces the supply of plex there by increasing the demand for new plex which will result in someone breaking their credit card out and giving CCP some money.

I agree, Isk sink wasn't the proper terminology. What I was trying to get across in the fewest amount of words was that Plex -- if purchased through trading -- would result in a loss of Isk for the buyer and essentially become a redistribution of wealth; and the end benefit being that nothing was gained by the buyer to aid in obtaining more Plex, or more Isk. Thanks for helping me understand this better. I still don't see what the issue with vanity purchases is though.

Nerodon
Gallente
Incapsulated Reality
Posted - 2011.06.29 19:22:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1


Wow people, engage your brain.

The person who initially buys a PLEX may buy it for various reasons. The only pertinent PLEX in this argument are the one's that were purchased to resell for ISK. Once this is done the player that spent real money got what he wanted, namely ISK, and that part of the process is over.

The person that buys a PLEX with ISK may do so for many reasons, but the only relevant one to this conversation are those that were purchased with ISK to buy AURUM. He has spent no money, and no matter what he buys he cannot be classified by any normal definition as "paying to win".

A person CAN buy a PLEX directly for cash, keep it for themselves and convert it to AURUM, and the buy NeX items. If this were the case technically you could define this as pay to win. Granted, it is a very inefficient and round about way of doing so, and it would require advantage granting items to be available items that were only available using this method.

However, since PLEX can be purchased with Cash, OR purchased with ISK, the definition of a pay to win item no longer applies. You can always obtain any item in the NeX with either cash OR ISK.

Pay to win can't exist because the items are readily available to those that do not pay a cent more than their subscription fee.




Gosh, finally someone who understands! Aurum is not a big deal like the players claim it to be. They are trapped in the illusion that Aurum immediately means breaking the game mechanics and balance, they refuse change because they are afraid of it or what it might entail. And also, non-vanity items are not even on the menu, never been announced, the newsletter has been taken waaay too seriously. Stop being so paranoid already.

Ramelius
Posted - 2011.06.29 20:27:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
crap






To your hole troll!

JMERCENARY
Posted - 2011.06.29 20:52:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: RJBlues
Edited by: RJBlues on 29/06/2011 15:10:10
Originally by: Das Oskold
No way in hell as many people come out of the blue whom we've never seen before and start supporting CCP any other way.


Perpetuum dev spotted..

In all seriousness tho.. People do have differing opinions. Live with it.

"weve never seen before"... I wish I was like you and remembered the name of every character, alt and variations thereof from 300+ thousand people.


Dear Perpetuum devs, please go back to your lazy ass half finished game and check the new registrations pettition emails and occasionally click on them. It's the only way you can get NEW customers.

NO we won't be paying up front to test your half finished game. No we are not that desperate to watch little dots running on a textured ball you call a planet. We just want to test things with a free trial and you will probably NEVER see our money.
Let's see now if you can take the heat.

Zyress
Posted - 2011.06.29 21:17:00 - [90]
 

I don't like the fact that there is a money option ( as well as the isk option) for buying plex leading to the Aurum and the purchase of in game items. I'm not going to get upset and emorage quit over it at least not yet, they put performance boosting items in the Aurum store and that will change. I play enough free games online that I can paytowin in, I'll not do that in a subscription game.


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