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blankseplocked Pro "MONO"nucleosis a look at MT without the mob mentality
 
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InfernalWill
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:18:00 - [1]
 

Please read in its entirety before comments. Please leave actual intelligent responses with examples.

Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.

MT for actual in game items in any OTHER game would be gamebreaking. However, eve is not every other game because it already has this feature in it with the plex.

MT through aurum for non vanity items "Would" be gamebreaking if it did not already exist in the game with plex. If ccp put non vanity items in the store the only "advantage" it would give those people that bought them with real world currency is time. This is because you will still be able to purchase these items with the in game currency isk, by converting it to plex, and then converting plex to aurum to purchase those items. The ONLY advantage gained by using real money is in the time it would take to generate the isk to convert to aurum.

As for the argument that the inherent problem is not the transaction itself but the cutting out of the "middle man" industrial/manufacturers, this is also false. The argument from this point of view is that, by these "items" whether ships, modules, or ammo, being available through the store, they are appearing out of thin air without any of the game's resources put into them thus affecting the "player-run" economy. The reason that this argument is also faulty is twofold. Firstly this argument relies on an assumption that every item will be able to be purchased this way, and that all pilots will purchase them this way, which is incorrect. Many pilots cannot afford to do this, AND not all in game items will be available in this way, it would be a select few. Secondly, for those pilots that cannot afford to spend real money past their 15$ sub fee, the game and the economy would go on pretty much in the same way. This is because these pilots will still need to generate isk either to convert up the chain to aurum if they wish to purchase these as yet UNKNOWN items, or to carry on with their gameplay as they are already doing.

Another argument against "new and possibly better" ships/ammo/modules available through the store is that many CURRENT ships/modules/ammo need work, either through rebalancing, new graphical design, overall functionality, or that we just need new/better ships/modules/ammo available to everyone the way that they are now. The problem with new items of any kind is that they take real world resources, money, people, and time, to institute. To design or redesign anything takes developers, designers, testers, and programmers, just to name a few, that all need to be paid. Some people will say then why is ccp wasting these valuable resources on a select few things for a select group of people through MT and the store? To answer this let me pose to you that it could be possible though the real world currency generated by the in game store to fund the design/development/implementation of these new ships/modules/ammo. If this was possible, and even the INTENT of ccp, then it IS in the best interest of all eve players. Industrials and manufacturers would have new blueprints/ships/modules to produce and profit off of, and the player run economy would thrive, pilots would have their new ships, subscriptions could rise, and more content could be generated for the players.

Think about things from a logical and realistic point of view, take a step back from the mob mentality, and REALLY look at things, apart from feelings and emotions, only then can anything be discussed, debated, analyzed,and judged.

Thanks
-Will


Crystal Mouse
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:20:00 - [2]
 

first

Replicator Swordstalker
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:25:00 - [3]
 

That last paragraph covers what I would be worried about. IF this is the intent AND they do get around to fixing up some other ships and giving missiles their well deserved revamp, then yes this could potentially be great for the game. The only concern I have is where they draw the line? Do they keep designing ships and only implementing through the store? Or do they put out a couple and then switch over and start revamping the stuff that needs it?

All questions that can only be answered in time, and with the history they have built, I am keeping my subscription to the game I love until they ACTUALLY break it, instead of leaving because they could potentially break it.

InfernalWill
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:32:00 - [4]
 

I also just wanted to say thanks to my corp/ally mates for engaging in discussions (sometimes heated) about these topics, so that I could even write this.

Thanks
-Will

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:39:00 - [5]
 

It's hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone who starts by insulting the audience (example: your second line)

However,

Through PLEX, all of EVE is a microtransaction store.
What is the problem with PLEX that NEX is trying to solve?


Nekran
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:40:00 - [6]
 

The 2nd paragraph assumes quite alot. You assume that not all items will eventually be available for money or aurum, you assume which way players will purchase items. The Fact is we have no idea which way this is going to go and that is the major problem. Customers should be able to have questions answered not be told for that a blog is being worked on and will be released in acouple days.

tarballicus
Posted - 2011.06.28 23:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill
Please read in its entirety before comments. Please leave actual intelligent responses with examples.
removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.



not sure what this means

Scerwup
Posted - 2011.06.29 00:22:00 - [8]
 

I will try to discuss this with you rationally, but, I would really like to start by saying this. I thought the EvE player base was supposed to be a little more intelligent than other games. However, I have not seen this exhibited by the majority of these posts lately that don't seem to understand pretty basic economics.

Originally by: InfernalWill
As for the argument that the inherent problem is not the transaction itself but the cutting out of the "middle man" industrial/manufacturers, this is also false....


I won't quote the whole paragraph, because that's a large wall of text. My response, however, is based on the rest of the paragraph here, so, don't get lost.

It doesn't have to be every item in game purchased on the NEX to affect the economy. It only takes one item. Here's an example, it's a little rough, but, I believe it pertains.

Imagine there's a player who wants to build and sell Covetors. He's a fairly new industrialist, he doesn't PvP, prefers not to run missions, all he really wants to do in the player driven sandbox is build things. Specifically, he wants to build Covetors, there doesn't have to be a rational reason for that decision, other than it's a game he pays 15 dollars for each month and that's what he wants to do, that is HIS fun game play. Last time I checked a fresh non researched Covetor BPO was 2.2 billion. So, because that's the specific thing he wants to do, he grinds missions and branches his skill plan to train more missioning skills, so that he can afford a Covetor BPO. Finally, after however long of grinding missions, which he doesn't enjoy, he can afford his Covetor BPO. It still has to be researched for weeks or more, but no big deal, he has achieved his first goal and he is happy with himself and the game, he feels fulfilled.

Now let's jump forward say, oh, two months. Nowhere near enough time for him to have realized any profits on his 2 bill isk BPO, or to have even broke even. Said player didn't care or didn't understand the ramifications of Aurum and Nex when it came out, or perhaps never read a dev blog or forum post at all, and doesn't really even know about it. So, two months later, CCP starts releasing a new ship on NEX. We will call this ship a Culk. The Culk is a beautiful Golden, Chrome, or Pink Hulk with awesome moving parts. It also happens to be able to fit a 4th strip miner in it's highs, and has better bonuses than a hulk. It also only requires the skills of a Retriever or a Covetor, because, CCP wouldn't make the people paying to win wait the two months or so it takes to skill into a Hulk, because if you're able to wear the $1000 jeans you shouldn't have to wait. Anyhow, it wouldn't even make a difference if the ship cost literally $1000 in Plex or Aurum or whatever. People would still find a way to get a hold of it. Every one of those ships that gets out helps destroy that single players game experience and whole goal in the game. Said player couldn't even hope to copy their BPO to sell for invention copies, because the new Golden Mining ship is better than a Hulk. So, they have just destroyed one players experience.

Needless to say, it's doubtful that that was the only player producing Covetors, or Covetor BPCs to invent Hulks from. The new Culk has now affected Covetor production, Hulk invention, Hulk production, the people who trade those things, the people who mine the minerals to produce those ships, the people who mine the moons to produce the T2 components for the Hulks, the people who react those moon minerals to provide the higher minerals, possibly the people with freighters who take the contracts to move the materials around to the producers, etc, etc. ALL of those people were affected in one way or another from that ONE SINGLE item. Now, imagine they release more than one item.

THAT is the effect of it, so many people don't understand that one tiny piece of this player driven economy is just as important as a million pieces.


Cataca
Posted - 2011.06.29 00:26:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill
Please read in its entirety before comments. Please leave actual intelligent responses with examples.

Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.

MT for actual in game items in any OTHER game would be gamebreaking. However, eve is not every other game because it already has this feature in it with the plex.

MT through aurum for non vanity items "Would" be gamebreaking if it did not already exist in the game with plex. If ccp put non vanity items in the store the only "advantage" it would give those people that bought them with real world currency is time. This is because you will still be able to purchase these items with the in game currency isk, by converting it to plex, and then converting plex to aurum to purchase those items. The ONLY advantage gained by using real money is in the time it would take to generate the isk to convert to aurum.


There is a fundamental difference between MT and RMT in its current form, even more so assuming that it will have non vanity items. Plex are market neutral, MT exerts some form of pressure on the market. As is, its negligible with the current options, as soon as more attractive items of market interest get implemented, this could very well change.

With plex someone still has to put some effort into making the money you "buy". The value of it is regulated by the market further decreasing the possibility of exploiting it.You cant really outfit a corporation, or spend huge monetary assets on plex without somewhat affecting the price of them. Its also not instant, and what you buy still has to be produced, and thus available on the market.


Originally by: InfernalWill

As for the argument that the inherent problem is not the transaction itself but the cutting out of the "middle man" industrial/manufacturers, this is also false. The argument from this point of view is that, by these "items" whether ships, modules, or ammo, being available through the store, they are appearing out of thin air without any of the game's resources put into them thus affecting the "player-run" economy. The reason that this argument is also faulty is twofold. Firstly this argument relies on an assumption that every item will be able to be purchased this way, and that all pilots will purchase them this way, which is incorrect. Many pilots cannot afford to do this, AND not all in game items will be available in this way, it would be a select few. Secondly, for those pilots that cannot afford to spend real money past their 15$ sub fee, the game and the economy would go on pretty much in the same way. This is because these pilots will still need to generate isk either to convert up the chain to aurum if they wish to purchase these as yet UNKNOWN items, or to carry on with their gameplay as they are already doing.


Your argument is a bit flawed here. You tell us that we are assuming things, and yet you do the same thing to base your arguments on. Further, since the assets from the MT market will not be produced by the market, as opposed to plex, they are not market neutral. They inject value into the market thus depending on the implementation and frequency in use, might "break" it.

Just look at the tactical possibilities that an aurum market might have in 0.0 warfare. Assume that a fleet can be fully/partly outfitted with the MT store only. A fleet attacks 0.0 space, gets destroyed, jumps to a close npc 0.0/lowsec system, refits there with prestocked plex and instantly attacks again. This wouldnt even require money to be spent from that alliance.

Its stuff like that that worries people, and rightly so.

I might reply to the other stuff as well but... character limit and :effort:

Hekira Soikutsu
Posted - 2011.06.29 00:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 29/06/2011 00:51:59
Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 29/06/2011 00:49:48
Edited by: Hekira Soikutsu on 29/06/2011 00:47:10


3 reason why MT for NON-VANITY items is bad, especially so for ships and modules.

1) NEX ships thats are similar to or are substitutes of in-game ships will price lock their substitutes in-game. Take a Machariel and say it is available on the market as well as NEX for a fixed price. Because NEX items have a fixed price, sellers of the said Machariel will be forced to sell at that price. This will hurt nullsec mission runners because it prevents them from selling at equilibrium prices, meaning they do not get best prices and volumes for their wares. I will explain this in greater detail if you desire.

2) NEX represents unlimited supply. Unlike the real market, it will not exhibit dynamic changes in price with respect to demand. As long as you have out of game currency you can purchase an unlimited supply of the module only limited by your RL wallet. This means that for high meta-level items that are intended to be rare, it possible to spawn an unlimited number of these modules. Right now if you chose to buyout every single officer module of a single type, you'd find that you'll run into a limit in how many you can buy at a certain price. Soon you'll be paying increasingly more as module hawkers push up the price more. NEX will retail these modules for a fixed price. How would you like to see officer fit fleets?

3) NEX also bypasses logistical issues, which is a valid gameplay mechanic. It means say hypothetically, if alliance A captures a nullsec system or otherwise by a single spy in a carrier ejecting ships for his friends, alliance B can resupply their forces from that station via the NEX, which would not be possible without the NEX.

TBH the issue is that of how the NEX works. This is why ships and modules are a nono. However BPCs are fine. Then again unless the item is not present in-game why invest in a new method to distribute said items?

EDIT Sorry for repeating some points. Its late for me. I keep mistyping.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:04:00 - [11]
 


The problem has to do with the Monopoly CCP has on the supply.


With CCP controlling the supply of all these items CCP can control the price of items at a whim.

Imagine you're an NEX to Market reseller, and you buy your $70 monocles and sell them on the market for 1 month, then one day CCP comes in and puts them on sale for $50 (even for a week). All of a sudden your monocles are being undercut by another reseller who can sell them for 400M less than you bought them for, just because CCP dictated it.

This is not an open-market situation. It's bad for resellers and it's bad for the market. As long as CCP has a monopoly on ANY items it's going to be a negative impact for the economy as they can be totally irrational about their prices since they are targeting subscriptions, as long as subscriptions don't end, they really don't lost that much from making irrational decisions on the NEX Market.

After this last week, add the lack of trust many have, and you have a recipe for disaster and failcascade just on trust.


Again, CCP's Monopoly on NEX Prices is the first problem, followed by the lack of need that CCP makes intelligent marketing decisions since we already pay them subscription money.

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:08:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Bloodpetal on 29/06/2011 01:07:56
Quote:


3) NEX also bypasses logistical issues, which is a valid gameplay mechanic. It means say hypothetically, if alliance A captures a nullsec system or otherwise by a single spy in a carrier ejecting ships for his friends, alliance B can resupply their forces from that station via the NEX, which would not be possible without the NEX.



This is also another very valid item.

Not every station can have a NEX if it's going to be providing out of station items.


Even from the loyalty point stores if you buy an item you have to transport. Insta-NEX items all over EVE makes those NEX items essentially logistics free. The Ishukone Scorpion shouldn't be available from any other station than an Ishukone station, let's say, but now it's available all over EVE? So on.

It's game-breaking by the very rules and challenges that CCP put into the game themselves, but as long as you pay the almight dollar, you can do whatever the hell you feel like.


No, not for me. I don't even think these vanity items should be available in their current format. They should be a blueprint that uses Polytextiles and other items from the planetary interaction market.


Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:11:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill
Please read in its entirety before comments. Please leave actual intelligent responses with examples.


tl;dr.


Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill

Please read in its entirety before comments. Please leave actual intelligent responses with examples.

Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.



I'm a protestor and I am probably more conservative than you in many respects, so please do not insult people when asking for an intelligent conversation, least ye be called a hypocrite.


Originally by: InfernalWill

MT for actual in game items in any OTHER game would be gamebreaking. However, eve is not every other game because it already has this feature in it with the plex.



This is false. PLEX do not add or remove anything from the sandbox.


Originally by: InfernalWill

The ONLY advantage gained by using real money is in the time it would take to generate the isk to convert to aurum.



ISK is a commodity money, it is a representation of time and effort, labor. Creating short cuts for "time" in the sandbox, essentially creates "time inflation". This will steal value from existing ISK and depreciate the entire monetary base of the game.

Not to mention you will be granting anyone the ability to magic things into existence where the logistics to get them there in the first place are no longer needed. Not to mention the miners that need to mine, the pirates who want to flip their cans, the traders who buy and sell the mins, the industrialists that build the ships and research the BPOs, the ice miner to feed the POSes and all the people that do PI to feed and build POSes and associated devices.

This saving of "time" steals from the sandbox for each and everyone of them, not only in the value of their ISK, but in their game experiences.

Originally by: InfernalWill

As for the argument that the inherent problem is not the transaction itself but the cutting out of the "middle man" ... The reason that this argument is also faulty is twofold.



You are saying the argument is false, because not everyone will be able to afford it? That *is* a fallacious argument. If one person can afford it, by saving "time" then that amount of time based effort is stolen from everyone via the monetary base as described earlier. It is not false at all. It is basic economics. Your suggestion increases the supply of "time", that is your premise and it is demonstrably faulty. ISK is a commodity money, it is an abstraction of labor - time and effort.

Originally by: InfernalWill

Think about things from a logical and realistic point of view, take a step back from the mob mentality, and REALLY look at things, apart from feelings and emotions, only then can anything be discussed, debated, analyzed,and judged.



You sound intelligent, but I don't think you've quite thought it through as much as you think you have, simply because you do not understand what money is. Might I suggest, 'Carl Menger', you can find many of his books free at mises.org. Start there and work your way up through Hayek and Rothbard.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:41:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill
MT for actual in game items in any OTHER game would be gamebreaking. However, eve is not every other game because it already has this feature in it with the plex.


Stopped reading right there. :facepalm:

Neridah Tanz
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.06.29 01:52:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
good concise explanation


Following on from this is the "slippery slope" argument. That is once the NeX store is implemented, perhaps for vanity-only items as a condition - if it is intended to make more money for CCP, how profitable is it really going to be if its only for the peac**ks?

The temptation for CCP to introduce desirable ships & modules also available on the market or duplicate similar but slightly different items - considering that CCP has admitted that balancing the existing range of ships/modules requires a lot of work ... Will change the economy and game balance, and perhaps not for the better. The balance issues are aside from the market effects that Hekira mentions above.

One quite possible scenario with a MT store and subscription based model sitting side by side in the same game is;

The pressure for more development time to be spent in areas that contribute less to the sandbox, and more to the MT store. Eve could shift from a subscription based game to a free to play but pay to win model. So the game is fundamentally different, several styles of game play that currently exist will disappear (industrialists, miners), and the community culture will change completely.


So it really all revolves around WHAT the NeX store is meant to do (make money for CCP, make for a richer player experience by ... reduce barriers to entry into the game by .... ) - HOW it does this - and as a CONSEQUENCES what economic pressures it introduces into a game which has an economy which has a high degree of player involvement.

There are potentially several ways of plugging the NeX store into the player driven economy (e.g. through the use of limited run BPCs and requirement for player derived inputs from the market - a bit like the FW LP stores actually), but I would like to see some of these discussed more openly by CCP (I understand the need for a certain amount of secrecy to avoid CSM and market scandals such as those which have gone before).

Personally I do not support any sort of MT store in Eve, but based on some of the information that has emerged from leaked info and devblogs in the last few days Iím really not sure that option is available any more.

Nepcrosia
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:59:00 - [17]
 

I don't agree in the slightest. There are a whole lot of assumptions there that just aren't based on anything.

We assumed the worst, and CCP had nothing of value to say about it, which only heightened our fears. None of us know what they really have planned, but its obviously not good. The rage is really about the disdain for the player base, and the bungling of their PR.

We can only speculate on what's going to happen, but its not a positive change imo and that kind of erosion of what the game is about can not be tolerated, because it will only get worse. They're boiling the frog, as is the common analogy, and we were just lucky to be tipped off early enough to possibly make a change.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:01:00 - [18]
 

tl;dr

go fvck yourself!

What you gonna do about?

Come at me gayboy!

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:14:00 - [19]
 

When other people sell PLEX they make EVE cheaper for me to play. They help combat RMT. They don't dilute the value of my ISK. They support the player-based economy. They only acquire THINGS. Stuff that if they had friends in game, their friends could GIVE them.

Aurum makes EVE more expensive for me to play. It doesn't combat RMT. It dilutes the value of my ISK. It short-circuits the player-based economy. It allows the acquisition of special features, not just things. It devalues my time and emotional gratification by providing instant gratification. In time, it attracts a completely different kind of playerbase, which will lead to further erosion/deterioration in gameplay, which has already suffered enough.

If the two were the same, CCP wouldn't be fighting so hard to make Aurum reality, wouldn't be lying about it, and wouldn't be sticking to their guns as thousands of previously loyal customers quit.

If you still don't understand, you're either a troll, a dev alt, or not very bright. You should know which you are. I hope that helps.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.29 06:53:00 - [20]
 

Micro trans only made sense if EvE online was losing money.

But its very much the opposite. EvE online is making enough money that CCP felt they could field developing two other games.

EvE is a money maker under its sub based plan. No reason for MT other then pure greed.

This is now just them blatantly sticking it to the loyal player base and trying to bilk them for more money.

This is pure abuse of the players. If the sub model wasn't profitable I might understand the move to add MT. But This is complete crap on ever level.

If you go with the addict logic. CCP is basically big tobacco and you are the smoker that keeps buying knowing its killing you. And you are going to do it with a smile on your face?

Its indefensible.

Round and round we go on the merry go round.

Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:01:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.


What I want to know is, who taught republicans how to use computers?

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:13:00 - [22]
 

MT store in EVE is predatory. I know and most of the Vet commuunity know that they won't be able to put game breaking goods in the MT store. Anything they put in there won't be any better than anything in the game now. Officer Mods are in Jita for a reason. They aren't worth as much on the battlefield. Only high sec mission runners use them. On a similar note, all items added to MT will be fodder on a gate just like all the meta 14 stuff is. Anything sold there will be vanity collection items or some stupid noob 2 months in to the game who has no idea how linear the combat mechanics are in EVE. With MT they can bilk the nub for $300 in 3 months though rather than $50.

Unethical? Yep. Bottom feeding, like MT flash MMOs? Yep.
CCP don't care? Yep.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:14:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Optional Patch
Quote:
Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.


What I want to know is, who taught republicans how to use computers?


Obama

Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:24:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Optional Patch
Quote:
Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.


What I want to know is, who taught republicans how to use computers?


Obama

You couldn't have reinforced the stereotype any better, thank you.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:27:00 - [25]
 

Posting in a thread that'll get flamed and not read.

+1 to the OP for trying... but you wont be able to reason with idiots.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:31:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Optional Patch
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Optional Patch
Quote:
Explanation on MT and in game store, removed from the liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.


What I want to know is, who taught republicans how to use computers?


Obama

You couldn't have reinforced the stereotype any better, thank you.


LOL yw, it is a double entendre, so not sure which one you liked. Both are funny IMO.

Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:43:00 - [27]
 

Fair enough :)

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:50:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Hekira Soikutsu
1) NEX ships thats are similar to or are substitutes of in-game ships will price lock their substitutes in-game. Take a Machariel and say it is available on the market as well as NEX for a fixed price. Because NEX items have a fixed price, sellers of the said Machariel will be forced to sell at that price. This will hurt nullsec mission runners because it prevents them from selling at equilibrium prices, meaning they do not get best prices and volumes for their wares.


What if a Machariel/Nightmare-equivalent ship from NeX cost the equivalent of $1000? Would that impact on the ISK price of Machariels or Nightmares?

Quote:
2) NEX represents unlimited supply. Unlike the real market, it will not exhibit dynamic changes in price with respect to demand. As long as you have out of game currency you can purchase an unlimited supply of the module only limited by your RL wallet.


Setting an aggressive price on NeX materials will ensure low supply. How many $1000 ships can you afford to buy?

Quote:
3) NEX also bypasses logistical issues, which is a valid gameplay mechanic.


What if NeX operated the same way as existing LP stores? That is, you have to trade in some number of Aurum, ISK and items to get something back. Or trade in Aurum for a BPC of something.

My thoughts on NeX-as-LP-store are in another thread.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:57:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: InfernalWill
MT through aurum for non vanity items "Would" be gamebreaking if it did not already exist in the game with plex.


Stopped reading here, as this tells me you don't know what you're talking about.

The explanation on this has been given so many times, if you still don't understand you probably never will.

Keno Range
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:01:00 - [30]
 

You ask for an intelligent answer, then go on to wrote this:

Originally by: InfernalWill
liberal burn down ccp mob mentality.



I suggest you go read a few history books. Maybe it will help you get a sense for what the word "liberal" means and where it comes from.
About the rest of your post: tl;dr


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