open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Higher subcription fees instead of ruining the game
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Author Topic

jjnn
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:07:00 - [31]
 

so they need more money to make another game?
what about this game?no new content since i joined
but we pay more so they can make another game D
are ccp turning into bankers we should give them money for nothing?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:18:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 11:26:48
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T
Quite a few will SAY they would, and for a while some actually might... but the vast majority won't.

You are being arrogant. Is this how you support the protest, Akita?
Where does your arrogance come from? Did you never protest and therefore have resigned and grown an attitude against protesting?

I am merely being realistic, pragmatic and maybe a tad bit optimistic (if you can call the hope that CCP aren't *complete* morons "optimism").
Also, why exactly should I be supportive of a protest I believe to be at best misguided, and at worst, damaging the game as a whole ?

And if you believe I never protested anything, the "you never saw me in real life" counter is not even needed, since you should have noticed it quite clearly in the forums regarding countless different issues.
Now, the fact that I don't throw a hissy fit and threaten to cancel my bajillion subscriptions and also convince my umpteen hundred friends to also cancel theirs, instead trying to give explanations as to why something is bad and what effect it will have, that's not protesting enough for you ?
Would I have to have a bomb strapped to my chest while screaming slogans from a megaphone to call me a protester in real life ?

Quote:
Quote:
From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening.
From the opposite viewpoint, this will never happen.

From your viewpoint?

I presented two (almost completely diametrically) opposite viewpoints, and explained them a bit.
Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant.
Did you have any problem comprehending the second one, or was it merely inconvenient to acknowledge its existence ?

Quote:
I do not care how you twist and turn your head to keep liking a game that is changing for worse.

The game is changing for the worse for a completely different set of reasons, and this MT debacle is merely a small symptom of the problems, NOT the actual problem, not even close.
Do you think I *like* how many screwed up balance changes we've had lately ? Or how many bugs accrue or even resurface after each patch ? Or that we haven't had any "meaty" economy related expansions in ages ? Or that... you know what, the list of things that annoy me more and more about EVE is growing ever larger every day.
But the NEX is not one of them - at least, not the NEX that's supposed to be implemented (namely, a LP-shop with AUR instead of LP).
I *MIGHT* have a problem with some of the items and services that will be introduced in the NEX, or I might only have a problem with the chosen pricing (if it's TOO LOW), but that will be on a case by case basis, not a blanket rage about the entire NEX existence.

Quote:
You want to blame people's perception for it? You are a god damn nut job if you think that a game has got anything to do with reality. It is a game. I would say that your perception is the one that needs to be looked at. Next thing we know you want to buy yourself a real car with ISKs.

How exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ? I can't really tell what exactly about that you think is supposed to make me feel uncomfortable.

Fact remains, the protesters are NOT thinking rationally, but emotionally. The rational argument, I just presented.
Their perception of reality is coloured by anger, anger stemming from misunderstanding the realities of the game they've invested so much into, and the implications of upcoming changes.
So, yes, you can bet your behind I'm blaming people's perceptions.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:26:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Akita T
I am merely being realistic...

No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite.
Quote:
Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant.

Ok, I will ignore them all then and ignore your ranting.
Quote:
So how exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ?

You started going into a viewpoint without balls. You said that it can be seen like this and that bla bla bla. So let us prod this door wide open! Not just argue about buying SPs and what else with real money, but let us buy real things with ISKs, too.

Is this suddenly all very strange to you?!

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:30:00 - [34]
 

The increase in subs would only make the books look better in the short term.
Some of us have stacked up on game time, for us there would be no price increase. Plexes would also need to increase in price.
It might be doable, hard to know at what point customers will walk.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:34:00 - [35]
 

I might actuallt pay it (not sure), but too many folks wouldn't and the increase would be lost in cancelled subs IMHO : CLAIRVOYANT:

Ki'ara
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:38:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Haramir Haleths
Hi,

so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy.
What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap.

Discuss or just flame ... Laughing


They should stop to develop crap like Dust or the Vampire things, instead they should spend there money in real expansions to eve. Not that crap we got the last 2 years.

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:48:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Ranita Drell on 28/06/2011 11:48:33
While I'd much prefer to see EVE adopt higher subscription fees than enter the realm of non-vanity MT, I don't think it's the right solution.

EVE is a niche game but it doesn't offer what I would call a "premium" gaming experience, which means that it will be hard for potential subscribers to justify paying a price premium. EVE's flaws and idiosyncrasies may be acceptable in a game that charges basically the same prices as every other non-F2P MMO ... but go significantly above that in pricing, and a lot of people just aren't going to be willing to pay. And those who do may be justifiably bitter about it.

This is especially the case given that EVE isn't even being aggressively developed and improved. If one could look forward to an Apocrypha caliber expansion every 8 months (and/or robust iteration of old systems/content) along with timely game balancing tweaks, I could maybe see people saying "EVE is great, and I don't mind paying a few bucks extra every month to make sure it gets even better!" But we should know that wouldn't be the reality. We'll still be funding DUST and WoD for some time to come, especially if DUST doesn't live up to expectations.

So if it's a choice between EVE dying, raising subscription prices or corrupting the game with non-vanity MT, then yeah, raise the price I guess. That's a last resort, though. I don't know if I'd go along with it.

Raven Aldura
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:49:00 - [38]
 

MT -> chose if I want to pay more
Higher Sub fee -> Forced to pay more

Wha? You prefer a high sub? No way!

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:51:00 - [39]
 

If such a small company wasn't trying to develop two games at once along with an expansion for EVE then the stupid morons wouldn't be in this mess in the first place so **** off.

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:51:00 - [40]
 

CCP's rumored lack of funds is not our responsibility.

I'd rather see CCP shut down due to lack of funds than players being able to spend AUR for in-game advantage.

If you don't understand the difference between MT provided in-game advantages and the existing system, you're an idiot.

Tiven loves Tansien
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:52:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD.


This

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:55:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 11:58:58

Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T
I am merely being realistic...

No, you are being a douche in a time where others unite.

So, I should be supportive of ANY group of protesters I come across, even if I hold a completely opposite opinion on what needs to be done, and what is wrong as opposed to acceptable ?
Yeah, right...

Quote:
Quote:
Which one of them is my viewpoint, IF ANY, is wholly irrelevant.

Ok, I will ignore them all then and ignore your ranting.

And I'm the douche here ?
I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints.
And you instead choose to disregard them because I don't think it matters which one single particular viewpoint I prefer ?
If you must know, I ascribe to BOTH viewpoints, because I'm not a close-minded, horse-blinders wearing pseudointellectual.
My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints.
Doesn't mean I have to agree with the conclusions of those that refuse to see the big picture and only look at the issue directly in front of their nose through their narrow self-imposed perception limiters.

Quote:
Quote:
So how exactly do you get from me explaining the flaws in the (claimed//touted) reasoning of the protesters to accusing me of... well, whatever it is you're accusing me of ?

You started going into a viewpoint without balls. You said that it can be seen like this and that bla bla bla. So let us prod this door wide open! Not just argue about buying SPs and what else with real money, but let us buy real things with ISKs, too.
Is this suddenly all very strange to you?!

I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ?
Oh, wait, because then CCP loses money, that's why. And last time I checked, if they go under, EVE goes under, and the whole freaking argument about the moral virtues of not allowing microtransactions is not worth the paper it's not printed on.

Facts remain : the protesters are screaming against the idea of being able to end up buying an ingame advantage by spending additional real-life cash, and against the idea that NEX items somehow would automatically have to cause damage to the game's market//economy.
THOSE THINGS THEY ARE PROTESTING ARE BASED ON INACCURATE PERCEPTIONS.
You can already buy an advantage with cash in EVE, via PLEX sales. Adding items in the NEX will not make the game any more nor any less "pay to win" than it already is. And everybody will have access to NEX items even if they never pay any cash to CCP.
NEX will not cause any more damage than LP shops now do, when fully implemented. And the economic impact of any of the items in there will depend wholly on the attached AUR price tag, and as such, each one of them needs to be considered on a case by case basis, a blanket "NEX is evil" statement is ridiculous.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:57:00 - [43]
 

Higher subscription fee means your average Plex would suddenly be worth more. People with a stockpile of Plex's (think RMTers, for example) would suddenly find their wealth boosted by a large amount. The ISK price of a Plex would shoot up, devaluing the ISK overall. It would, in all reality, send the Eve economy into a tailspin, at least for a while.

Raise the sub fee, screw the economy.

Similar effect with pay to win. Demand for Plex would increase, causing the prices to increase, same effects on the ISK.

Either path throws off the economy.

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:02:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Demure Guise on 28/06/2011 12:04:30
Originally by: Jasdemi
What exactly is ruining the game? Vanity items? LMAO, poor jealous pilot.

Wait. You actually think it's Vanity Items causing the ruckus? AAAahahahahahahahaha - LMAO, poor, utterly clueless pilot.

As for giving CCP more of my money, **** that. If the bungling incompetents hadn't wasted our money on the development of two other games they wouldn't BE in a financial mess.

Maybe "Mr. $1,000 Jeans Dude" should start selling his jeans collection to raise money.

Abyssal Void
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:02:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Abyssal Void on 28/06/2011 12:04:23
Wow. I feel sorry for CCP. To have a customer base this moronic. All these ppl freaking out over eyewear? Are you ****ing kidding me? Or the other bit about a game developer actually developing games. God forbid they would ever do that. Lol you guys are freaking hilarious!

Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.

Seul Manus
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:04:00 - [46]
 

No. I pay enough.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:05:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Abyssal Void
Edited by: Abyssal Void on 28/06/2011 12:04:23
Wow. I feel sorry for CCP. To have a customer base this moronic. All these ppl freaking out over eyewear? Are you ****ing kidding me? Or the other bit about a game developer actually developing games. God forbid they would ever do that. Lol you guys are freaking hilarious!

Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.


lol another no poasting history alt created to belittle the playerbase and blow smoke up CCP's arse

Seul Manus
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:06:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Jasdemi
What exactly is ruining the game? Vanity items? LMAO, poor jealous pilot.


Bad management decisions, and a cronic lack of communication to the lower ranks who do the actual coding ect.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:08:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 12:12:14
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Similar effect with pay to win. Demand for Plex would increase, causing the prices to increase, same effects on the ISK.
Either path throws off the economy.

It is not absolutely certain that prices would noticeably increase as a response to increased demand for this particular type of consumption.
The PLEX supply/demand curves are certainly not the traditional "elastic" ones.

For instance, an increase in PLEX price, while almost certainly reducing demand for PLEX as a sub-payment method would at the same time very likely increase demand for PLEX as an investment tool, a hedge against inflation or any other number of reasons people would prefer to stockpile PLEX. This latter use (stockpiling "for a rainy day") is also heavily influenced by expectations rather than just actual present facts.
At the same time, while the increase in PLEX price could increase supply, it will generally tend to do so thanks to increase PLEX-for-cash purchaser count, not due to increased purchasing per individual - in fact, it's almost certain for the average spending per individual would decrease, thanks to people having a target of "buy X ISK" (as opposed to "spend Y USD on ISK").
Depending on just how much lower the individual spending gets compared to how much higher the number of spenders climb, the supply of PLEX could conceivably even go DOWN with increased prices, not up as you'd normally expect, at least in certain price intervals.

Abyssal Void
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:08:00 - [50]
 

Have been playing for years thank you. Just havent spent a lot of time on the forums....now I remember why.

Pookie McPook
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:09:00 - [51]
 

I've been suggesting higher subs since this broke. I'm all for it and for those economics wizards who are suggesting that higher subs -> fewer players -> less money, need to go back to school. When you are talking about such small sums a month then that "rule" is redundant. Also , I'm ignoring the fact that the whiners will spend more than the monthly sub on booze or cigarettes every day.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:10:00 - [52]
 

While a slight increase I might could do, CCP's problem is a spending problem. They have overextended their capital. They grew to big on just EVE alone, there is the old adage Man should not go faster than he is prepared. EVE Online could easily have provided for itself and the development of 1 other game, but they moved to buyout White Wolf, then put 2 games into Development. Just to much. They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.

Karii Ildarian
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:13:00 - [53]
 

I firmly believe that as soon as CCP opens the door to the station interior and allows for actual ambulatory interation, their RMT profits will soar.

So, finish those stations...

Abyssal Void
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:14:00 - [54]
 

If they have really overextended themselves that much then they just shut down production on WoD and cut overhead. Even Dust if they needed to. I suppose they could just keep the profits from the game instead of using it to make more games. Would that make everyone happy?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:17:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 12:17:45
Originally by: El'Niaga
They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.

Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ?
Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went).

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:27:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 28/06/2011 12:35:20
what if ccp introduced a new outpost type for sov 0.0

maybe a Concord Outpost (egg bpo + upgrade bpos available from concord station's LP store for 4 plex a piece) that allows supers to dock to a giant docking ring

tier 0 = max 6 superscarriers docked
tier 1 = max 9 superscarriers docked
tier 2 = max 12 supercarriers + 6 titans docked
tier 3 = max 15 supercarriers + 9 titans docked

also allow these outposts to be anchored in any sov system where alliance has sov 3 even if the system has one of the other 4 types there too.

this would create a big isk sink to burn off alot of plex.

the outpost could look similar to the gallente outpost but the tier 0 starts off with 2 rings (3x sc per ring) at the base... each upgrade adds more rings

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:32:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 12:17:45
Originally by: El'Niaga
They probably need to shelve WoD for the time being so that they can complete DUST 514 and maintain EVE. Thus stabilizing their spending to revenue stream. Yes I realize it means some people at CCP will have to be let go that's unavoidable. Either a few must be sacrificed for the many or they may all be lost.

Oh, hey, what an interesting concept... so you'd rather like to see quite a few people lose their jobs than ever see microtransactions in a game you play that WOULD allow you access to all the MT-based content without ever spending a dime ?
Well, I know who I would sacrifice instead of my employees - namely, I would sacrifice those subscribers that just can't live with the idea of playing a game which has some limited form of microtransactions (especially since they were already playing the game for ages with microtransactions included, but only as far as sub payment tokens went).


I don't think you understand.

They can't make enough off the NEX store to make up the revenue gap. Not at the relative small showing of items and high prices. If they'd released 100 1 dollar items that were destroyed when your pod killed they could easily have sold three or four times the monetary value than they have with 30 dollar pants and 70 dollar monocles.

It is a flawed roll out and philosophy really. Which emanated from the top levels of the company. They can still turn it around, but honestly they need to streamline their development processes and get rid of unneeded or unproductive staff.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:33:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 12:37:10
Originally by: Akita T
So, I should be supportive of ANY group of protesters I come across, even if I hold a completely opposite opinion on what needs to be done, and what is wrong as opposed to acceptable ?
Yeah, right...

You have an opinion on what needs to be done? Rolling Eyes I thought this is a protest about what the players want, not on what everyone should be doing. I am beginning to think that I am just feeding a troll again ...

Quote:
And I'm the douche here ?

Yes. And why should I concern myself on viewpoints that are not yours?

Quote:
I gave you a logical series of easily provable facts and inferences detailing the situation when viewed from two different viewpoints.

I did not ask for it.

Quote:
My brain can handle more than one viewpoint, in fact, it can handle quite a lot of different viewpoints.

Can it handle all viewpoints? Mine can. I take a step back, move into a new dimension and look at the problem as a whole.

Quote:
I don't know, WHY NOT let us buy real things with ISK ?

Laughing Yes! Let us forget about making games and let us put an Apple Store into Jita. Laughing Instead of playing just a game can we now shoot each other over the new iPhone.

And let us invent toilets with ice cream machines, so one can go onto a toilet and eat ice cream at the same time. Do you not love eating ice cream when you are on the toilet? It is so much better to spend time on the toilet when you can eat ice cream, too.

YOU ARE GOD DAMN STUPID, Akita Troll. And you have no life. Get one.

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:34:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Abyssal Void
Edit: Didnt see last one before posting this. Maybe you could explain the game breaking advantages being sold in that store. I seem to have missed them.

That isn't the issue either - because, as we all know, as yet there aren't any yet. YET being the operative word.

A VERY quick precis for you, since threads explaining the ACTUAL gripes are widely available anyway.

Fade to 24/6/2010 and CCP Shadow in the 'SP Microtransaction Megathread': "Our business model isn't changing. You have nothing to be concerned about." Then, "No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever." Then, "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with Eve." (his bold and underlining, not mine.)

Fade to today. CCP need cash, bad. They're overextended. Result: vanity items, which rational people think are hilarious but harmless. Via the very Microtransactions they apparently had no intentions of introducing. Wait. What?

We're getting similar sentiments expressed about non-vanity items. Remembering the above chain of events, we asked EXACTLY what WERE they going to be doing about non-vanity items. A simple, unequivocal answer that eliminated any chance of misinterpretation. Two blogs of CCP WaffleSpeak later and still nobody knows where they stand. Did they mean "No Gold Ammo" to mean ALL non-vanity microtransactions, or just "Ammo even better than Faction Ammo"? Your guess is as good as ours, as they are seemingly incapable of a straight-up, incontrovertible yes or no answer.

As the saying goes "Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice, shame on us."

Water MEI
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:35:00 - [60]
 

higher sub -> PLEX price increase...
so it is probably a good idea to horde PLEX atm in-case a sub increase, then we sell them for $ or ISK and earn a profit!!!


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only