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Zora
Gallente
Vector Industries
DONT PANIC.
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [91]
 

Meh, I don't know why but looking at the WoD emo dolls makes me a bit uncomfortable. Could live without it, but on the other hand I tremendously enjoyed the "Vampire" world 10 years ago. Maybe it's more for the youngster who actually like that style, but not much for the crowd CCP is serving right now. Which might be the reason to do this, since they can cover the geek angle with EVE, the action junkies with Dust, and the confused teenage boys/girls with WoD Rolling Eyes
So all in all it might not be a bad plan but it's always hard when you're stretching your resources too thin. Better to focus, that way you can apply your strength better to the products you develop. That and I totally support the Dust development, since it strengthens the Eve IP which is something that seems to be working well and proven.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [92]
 

The community, long ago, warned CCP about expanding versus improving Eve and making it more accessible to a larger audience while at the same time keeping the essence of the game intact. Sure it's easy to look back in hindsight and point fingers, but this also signals a change in some other tones as well, tones that the community also spoke up about.

Many of those themes are being echoed today in the current situation. Though I'm inclined to be sympathetic, if they are indeed in trouble, the fact they did not appeal to our sympathies long ago, nor our warnings, does not incline me much sympathy for them today.

The community gave hundreds, if not thousands, of suggestions how to improve the game, few were acknowledged. Many of them were aimed towards newer players, making the game more accessible and retention rates, especially for that seven month metric.

If there is anything to learn, it is what we already know, the customer is king.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Goauld Baal
In other words some one at CCP left the check book open and out on the table and now they want there player base to make up what there lacking HAHAHAH yeah thats not going to happen


no kidding.

Is EVE really Too Big to Fail? Maybe Iceland will do a Stimulus package to save their thriving MMORPG industry?

If countries can Bailout the Airlines and Auto Industry, why not Virtual worlds too. I mean, interweb spaceships are just as vital to national prosperity as say Jeans or Coke?

Nizran L'Crit
Caldari
Eternal Guardians
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:17:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Maul555
Edited by: Maul555 on 27/06/2011 20:37:41
If your listening CCP, just be honest with us. We love eve! I have been plexing recently but would be willing to re-sub if you guys really need it! I would even buy some stupid pants if you price it reasonably...



plexing or subbing makes no difference whatsoever to CCP' revenue


Actually, PLEXing is a big issue. A lot of people buy Plexes and then hold onto them instead of liquidating them in-game to be able to pay subs for the unforseeable future without actually having to pay money. This is a problem because that profit from plexes is realized on the books for that month, then they spend it as either "extra" money or as part of a sub amount, however, when it comes time for that person/people to redeem those plexes, they end up having to take the hit that month or year because it was already pre-paid. If they have a lot of these, they end up having far less income in the months they have to honor the plexes as opposed to when they received the funds for the plexes. Monthly subs are fairly straightforward, plexes can, if enough are redeemed at once, cause a huge hole where they aren't receiving any monthly income from that person/players.

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:21:00 - [95]
 

If they remove the MT shop and can assure us that it will stay away in the future, I would resub and donate a bit of money if they give me an option to do so, just to help them get out of current troubles.

I would never sponsor them to continue on this MT path.

Dryderian Vex
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:21:00 - [96]
 

With WOD they chose one of the "complexest" RPG worlds that are out there in the pen and paper realm.

That must be a hell of a project....

Yarrrrrhh
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:21:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Nizran L'Crit
Monthly subs are fairly straightforward, plexes can, if enough are redeemed at once, cause a huge hole where they aren't receiving any monthly income from that person/players.
Did anyone say 'bank run'?

i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
Gallente
sHaKeDoWn..
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:22:00 - [98]
 

I just get the feeling, this game and this company is already over.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:22:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 27/06/2011 21:23:11
Originally by: Dryderian Vex
With WOD they chose one of the "complexest" RPG worlds that are out there in the pen and paper realm.

That must be a hell of a project....


Not really, PVE could just be you sneaking on a human NPC and getting a snack. Laughing And then cooldown bar on abilities.

And yes, I kind of liked old world of darkness. Gaming system did not agree with me too much, though.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:24:00 - [100]
 

Guess I wasn't far off the mark, though I seriously wish I was.

Just sell WoD, drop Incarna (at least for now) and focus on fixing EVE and making Dust playable. Like I said before, this thing had all the signs of the most noobish (yet most common) mistake companies make. They spent more than they could generate and resorted to debt to pay for their new lifestyle , which they could not afford in the first place.

WORSE PART BY FAR? Should have they come clean and admit defeat the players would've been willing to help CCP out of the hole. PLEX donations, purchase of silly 5 USD monocles for portraits, etc. Most of the community would've supported CCP if they saw them really working again to preserve EVE and bring it back to it's former post Apocrypha glory.

But they underestimated their player base by such a far distance they'd need the old Cynos to go back where they started.

It's a real f***ing shame. But everything that happens next is just CCP reaping what they sowed.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:24:00 - [101]
 

Why is the report in English, and why does it use US dollars?


Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:24:00 - [102]
 


Or really believes this playerbase is dumb enough to fall for it?

I could see it hapening with like, i dunno, just some other game.

But they are gonna sit there, and right in front of us bring EVE development to a screeching halt, while diverting all EVE money to TWO new in development projects, and then hit us for P2W costs for cash influx to make up for poor fiscal management?

I think they need like professional consulting. Iceland man make awesome spaceship game, not fiscal empire.

michael boltonIII
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:27:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Alice Katsuko
To be honest, I'd pay a higher monthly fee if it meant keeping this game afloat, and especially if it meant we wouldn't have to deal with pay to win items being sold for PLEX.


They'll do the higher fees. Wait for the rage to die down, and then quietly start reintroducing pay to win.


Why are you using the word "re-introducing" are you implying that purchasing a monocle is in some way winning? You cannot currently "pay to win" nor are there any plans to include such a feature.

Yarrrrrhh
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:28:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Why is the report in English, and why does it use US dollars?


Because CCP is an international company I guess.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:28:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Why is the report in English, and why does it use US dollars?



It's not uncommon to do accounting in USD as opposed to ISK when you're an international business, makes things much easier. If they actually do all their internal accounting in USD, this probably saved them in the last financial crisis.

Sarpadeon
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:31:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Nizran L'Crit
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Maul555
Edited by: Maul555 on 27/06/2011 20:37:41
If your listening CCP, just be honest with us. We love eve! I have been plexing recently but would be willing to re-sub if you guys really need it! I would even buy some stupid pants if you price it reasonably...



plexing or subbing makes no difference whatsoever to CCP' revenue


Actually, PLEXing is a big issue. A lot of people buy Plexes and then hold onto them instead of liquidating them in-game to be able to pay subs for the unforseeable future without actually having to pay money. This is a problem because that profit from plexes is realized on the books for that month, then they spend it as either "extra" money or as part of a sub amount, however, when it comes time for that person/people to redeem those plexes, they end up having to take the hit that month or year because it was already pre-paid. If they have a lot of these, they end up having far less income in the months they have to honor the plexes as opposed to when they received the funds for the plexes. Monthly subs are fairly straightforward, plexes can, if enough are redeemed at once, cause a huge hole where they aren't receiving any monthly income from that person/players.


there would have to be a serious shift in the rate people use plex's for this to happen though, and considering CCP actually makes more money from a plex use compared to a subscription a higher plex usage would drive the isk price up, leading to more plex purchases to cash in on it.

JGR Mao
Gallente
JGR Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:32:00 - [107]
 

I guess its time to welcome our new sandbox owners

SOE, please dont mess this up as you did with SWG - mmkay?



Nuramori
Amarr
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:33:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Nuramori on 27/06/2011 21:50:52
Yes perhaps I was a bit vague on the leaks comment. O wasn't referring to the annual report.

I agree it is interesting that it wasn't on an investors page. Oh wait..... :p

Given their accounting background combined with wanting to differentiate eve from other mmo's out there there are so many other models they could have gone with, not to mention simply raising rates with a clear explanation. Sure there would be upset subscribers but it would be less disingenuous.

: stupid iPad keyboard.

mrbreakit
Caldari
Universal Module Acquisition Department
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:34:00 - [109]
 

Hilarious side note: CCP cancelled the White Wolf CCG Vampire The Eternal Struggle. For being a game that they were literally sitting on mountains of product (that can no longer be sold do to licensing lapses) they had a strong niche player base that was lapping up everything they sold. While every smidgen they sold had to go to Hasbro/WotC for licensing **** (the tap mechanic lolol), they were still making a profit.

Way to go guys. :D

Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:37:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
FHC mentions a 30,000 unsub population is needed to put CCP in negative territory. It's also mentioned that they may already need MT to make their income look more attractive in order to get the loan at a lower rate. However, would that number be necessary to affect their potential to refinance their 11 mil loan that is due in October? If the community could resolve to keep a certain number unsubbed until then it might be just the leverage we need.



I do not want to put CCP between a rock and a hard place just for our own wants. I just want them to start acting right again. All else will follow...

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:37:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: mrbreakit
Hilarious side note: CCP cancelled the White Wolf CCG Vampire The Eternal Struggle. For being a game that they were literally sitting on mountains of product (that can no longer be sold do to licensing lapses) they had a strong niche player base that was lapping up everything they sold. While every smidgen they sold had to go to Hasbro/WotC for licensing **** (the tap mechanic lolol), they were still making a profit.

Way to go guys. :D


Twilight Online is canceled or youre talking about somethign else?

R2 D3
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:39:00 - [112]
 

I might be a bit tired but....

they still made a slight profit (what is an opinion and Cash is king).

But they are not that illiquid yet as of how I see it. Will look more carefully into it tomorrow but it's definetly interesting to see the ccp annual report.

Considering Deloitte audited it and signed it I guess it's legit. (it is not illegal to bring out an annual report of a company) However it is quite illegal to impersonate Deloitte and there auditors report. (In the case ccp was getting bankrupt it was said in the report and the values where different). They would be on liquidation value instead of the going concern method.

Ben Alman
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:41:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Markus Jome
I wonder if Blizzard or EA are publishing their finances on their side.

From investor.activision.com
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ACTI/1304685493x0x461467/F432BA16-3D54-4EDB-9269-4F744E33B771/Activision_Blizzard_2010_ARS_Final_PDF.pdf

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:43:00 - [114]
 

Nice scam.

Pathetic.

Toawa
EVE Mercantile Exchange
Virtue of Selfishness
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:43:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Toawa on 27/06/2011 21:44:52
Originally by: Nizran L'Crit
Actually, PLEXing is a big issue. A lot of people buy Plexes and then hold onto them instead of liquidating them in-game to be able to pay subs for the unforseeable future without actually having to pay money. This is a problem because that profit from plexes is realized on the books for that month, then they spend it as either "extra" money or as part of a sub amount, however, when it comes time for that person/people to redeem those plexes, they end up having to take the hit that month or year because it was already pre-paid. If they have a lot of these, they end up having far less income in the months they have to honor the plexes as opposed to when they received the funds for the plexes. Monthly subs are fairly straightforward, plexes can, if enough are redeemed at once, cause a huge hole where they aren't receiving any monthly income from that person/players.


It's also worth keeping in mind that on a $/month/account basis, PLEX/GTCs are the highest revenue source that CCP charges. They'd actually be better off, in a sense, if everyone used PLEX, as long as they were smart enough to bank the money somewhere safe until it's actually called in. That they apparently count it as revenue immediately is probably not the best idea in the world... I'm 99% sure stores in the US that sell gift cards (which is about the closest analogue I can think of) are not allowed to count gift card purchases as revenue, to avoid these kinds of issues.

Fire Watch
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:47:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
I just get the feeling, this game and this company is already over.


Drop Dust and they should be fine.

The Pteradactyl
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:47:00 - [117]
 

A lot of retail businesses sell gift cards. They do this because on average (I work in this industry) just over 5% of all gift card purchases never get redeemed. You get money immediately (for reinvestment etc) and 5% of those cards never come back for product. PLEX is similar. If the PLEX is sitting in someones hangar and that person leaves suddenly for whatever IRL reason. The PLEX just sits there and EVE already has the profit.

Nektor Toff
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:53:00 - [118]
 

I'd invest in CCP

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:54:00 - [119]
 

I'm really disappointed at CCP for misunderstanding PLEX income as an extra income. All it did was combat RMT and insure continued subscriptions. In other words their income never changed, never increased beyond their account numbers, just was insured with PLEX money.

So they should've planned and projected based on the number of active subscriptions and EVE store sales, not total income (including plex sales) which was deceptively increasing.


Anyone here can understand that, why couldn't they? Took too many projects without any money to make them work and then tried to scam us out of our game time using Aurum to cover their debts and expected people to buy that it just like that. It's just beyond ******ed.

I mean it could've probably worked on other communities, but on EVE's playerbase? Are you serious? Heck, even freaking goons became a relatively good part of the community here, whereas they are like the plague in other games. That's just how different EVE's community mentality is compared to other games.

******ed I tell you.

Biomassed everyoneelse
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:58:00 - [120]
 

This is strange

Makes me wonder.


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