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Nidda Schottajack
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:50:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Nidda Schottajack on 27/06/2011 19:51:24
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
And you bring up the often proven false PLEX argument, you clearly are not up on the issues.

I don't concede it to be "proven false".

I have a much bigger problem with CQ, overheating and lag than the whole MT P2W debate.

If you had bothered scrolling down before posting your attack you would have seen additional posts by me that might have given you pause prior to thinking I was trolling him kid.

Taipion
Caldari
Operations Control
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:51:00 - [32]
 

This is bull****!

It does not make a difference to the community if you get those things with ISK, Aur, or PLEX.

ISK has no less a "real value" than Aur or PLEX.

Does it make a difference if you buy a faction ship for 800m ISK, or if you buy 2 PLEX for 800m ISK and then buy it with 2 PLEX?
Would it make any more difference if you buy it with Aur?


The services you mentioned are partly bad, partly good, but nothing serious at all, no matter if the will be available or not.
And they are not related to Aur.


And btw, CCP clearly stated that all the stuff you came up won´t be for Aur.

And even if not, who cares?

That whole thread just starts to look like a troll. -.-

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:52:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Nidda Schottajack

No I wasn't trolling, but when you're serious about wanting to have a conversation with somebody you shouldn't have start it off along the lines of the the other million threads the kiddies have posted - "I harve canceled my 935753 accounts but I still want to post endlessly about the game I no longer play."



Yes you were. Stop lying. Asking someone that has passion about Eve, who has canceled in protest, to stop protesting is an oxymoron. Same goes for that stupid argument, "If you canceled how come you log on?" Cause they have time left they paid for on a game they are passionate enough to protest with regards to changes that may threaten that game.



Thanks for the back up! Somewhat amusingly a very NON trolling post by Nidda appeared while you were likely typing yours, let's all go back to the topic at hand, in my mind that is, "the no MT for Advantage is a hard question to ask, as there is a lot of opinion"

Best
AG

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:52:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
If I follow your logic AG you're fine with somebody spending real money for plex which they sell for isk to buy a 100 million skillpoint character with a titan because it's a player generated ship and character, but you draw the line at it being conjured up and purchased directly from CCP. Right?


Just who do you think generated that titan pilot? Buggs Bunny? How about the titan, where did it come from? Fall from the sky by the grace of the great WambaJamba god of internet space ships?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:54:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
Edited by: Nidda Schottajack on 27/06/2011 19:51:24
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
And you bring up the often proven false PLEX argument, you clearly are not up on the issues.

I don't concede it to be "proven false".

I have a much bigger problem with CQ, overheating and lag than the whole MT P2W debate.

If you had bothered scrolling down before posting your attack you would have seen additional posts by me that might have given you pause prior to thinking I was trolling him kid.


Kid huh? Read below punk, refute it.


Originally by: Adunh Slavy

Micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox.

This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning.

Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox.

Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX.

The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items.

MTs are theft.

Nidda Schottajack
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:56:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
If I follow your logic AG you're fine with somebody spending real money for plex which they sell for isk to buy a 100 million skillpoint character with a titan because it's a player generated ship and character, but you draw the line at it being conjured up and purchased directly from CCP. Right?


Just who do you think generated that titan pilot? Buggs Bunny? How about the titan, where did it come from? Fall from the sky by the grace of the great WambaJamba god of internet space ships?


What's your problem? I ask if I understand his position correctly and you seem to think that warrents an attack on me for asking it?

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:58:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Taipion
This is bull****!

It does not make a difference to the community if you get those things with ISK, Aur, or PLEX.


WHERE the items originate is the question as far as I can tell.

Originally by: Taipion

Does it make a difference if you buy a faction ship for 800m ISK, or if you buy 2 PLEX for 800m ISK and then buy it with 2 PLEX?
Would it make any more difference if you buy it with Aur?

The services you mentioned are partly bad, partly good, but nothing serious at all, no matter if the will be available or not.
And they are not related to Aur.

And btw, CCP clearly stated that all the stuff you came up won´t be for Aur.


CCP Zinfindel wanted to release a dozen or so custom painted Scorpions with Incarna, the CSM actively discouraged it, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say none of that stuff, perhaps I misunderstand you.

Originally by: Taipion

And even if not, who cares?

That whole thread just starts to look like a troll. -.-

I'd say a lot of people care myself, but since it would be hard for either of us to prove that, let's stick to our own opinions. I am sorry that this thread looks like a troll, it is genuinely not my intention, and I will concede that mood is hard to quantify, so perhaps to some it is a troll, I would interject that the same ambiguity within "is it a troll or not" exists in the minds of people who wonder "Is it p2w?". Some things are agreeable to the most casual of observers, others are not.

One of Eve's unique features is a near total player driven economy, offering ex nihilo goods potentially devalues the efforts of players, that is my main concern.

Let me be clearer, if CCP offered "Gold Ammo" but you needed to trade in the same number of "normal ammo" as with the LP store, I'd be fine. It's the Economy that bothers me.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I hope that you continue to do so,

AG

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:59:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
If I follow your logic AG you're fine with somebody spending real money for plex which they sell for isk to buy a 100 million skillpoint character with a titan because it's a player generated ship and character, but you draw the line at it being conjured up and purchased directly from CCP. Right?


Just who do you think generated that titan pilot? Buggs Bunny? How about the titan, where did it come from? Fall from the sky by the grace of the great WambaJamba god of internet space ships?


What's your problem? I ask if I understand his position correctly and you seem to think that warrents an attack on me for asking it?


My problem is your complete lack of understanding that you could have easily discovered with out restoring to being a troll.

Don't like it? Tough.

Nidda Schottajack
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:00:00 - [39]
 

You're not even making sense now. WTH was that supposed to mean?

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:00:00 - [40]
 

A couple of types of service have been proposed which are not mentioned in the OP. For instance, extra slots to save your fittings. Does that constitute an advantage? Maybe, but you'd have trouble arguing it's more than very minor.

I guess things like this are on the way, and it's up to you to decide how much of this type of nickel-and-diming you're comfortable with, given that you already pay $180/year for this game and (from my perspective) don't get anywhere near that back in development or service.

Anyhow, as the OP highlights, there's an inherent difficulty in defining "P2W" services when the notion of "winning" at EVE is not clearly defined, and it will be hard to keep off that slippery slope now that you are already on it.



Tugrath Akers
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:00:00 - [41]
 

It would be easy to answer if you added a an option for [ ] Maybe

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:00:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
If I follow your logic AG you're fine with somebody spending real money for plex which they sell for isk to buy a 100 million skillpoint character with a titan because it's a player generated ship and character, but you draw the line at it being conjured up and purchased directly from CCP. Right?


Just who do you think generated that titan pilot? Buggs Bunny? How about the titan, where did it come from? Fall from the sky by the grace of the great WambaJamba god of internet space ships?


What's your problem? I ask if I understand his position correctly and you seem to think that warrents an attack on me for asking it?


Nidda, to be fair, it could be interpreted that your initial comments to me were "attacks on me", and there is quite a razor thin patience right now, as there has been a lot of anger focused on those who are upset (not saying we're blameless).

So, again, I am happy you asked a clarifying question, I've since responded, can we continue along that vein of discussion?

Best
AG

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:02:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
You're not even making sense now. WTH was that supposed to mean?


Play the hurt lamb with someone else.

Torothanax
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:02:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Bloodpetal
PLEX is an external input item that gives an external benefit. Players trade it for ISK through the market, but the benefit they are receiving is external, and the item is consumed and never directly touches the market.

This is akin to selling a Best Buy Card for ISK. I'm trading you an item for ISK but that item never really goes into the market/assets of the game, nor does it directly affect it, it only provides game time, which you can receive through other means.

None of those ideas are appropriate for AUR sales. They are "convenience" services. Noone should receive more convenience in EVE for having more real money, or because they can insert benefits into EVE because they have real money.

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
You raise a lot of good points, so let me just start here. I know a guy with 7 accounts, they all do PI, he has isk coming out of places I don't want to imaging. His ability to do that came from having more money. How does this differ from the above? I am very serious, and I have noted your many quality posts Bloodpetal, so know I am not trolling you.

Best
AG
Just because people with more cash can gain advantages in game, doesn't mean you need to support it and endorse it. The original idea of eve was that a persons RL wallet shouldn't play into the game world. Now obviously it does, but it needs to be mitigated, not ignored or encouraged.

If you look at eve's history you can see how they've slid further and further away from their original stance, which has led us to were we are now.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:03:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tugrath Akers
It would be easy to answer if you added a an option for [ ] Maybe


I certainly don't intend to be limiting, so please add in this option, and fire away! The fact that you consider maybe, I feel, strengthens the argument that it isn't a black and white issue.

Thanks for your thoughts,

AG

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:05:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Torothanax
Just because people with more cash can gain advantages in game, doesn't mean you need to support it and endorse it. The original idea of eve was that a persons RL wallet shouldn't play into the game world. Now obviously it does, but it needs to be mitigated, not ignored or encouraged.

If you look at eve's history you can see how they've slid further and further away from their original stance, which has led us to were we are now.


I wholeheartedly agree with you here, so what then is a liveable future?

AG

Nidda Schottajack
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:08:00 - [47]
 

Fine by me.

I support your views in general AG. I'm also against buying gear for real money through MT. Always have been as I said earlier. As far an vanity items let them sell whatever they like. As far as non-vanity it's either got to be all or none and they are really trying hard to find a shade of grey to make more money. Bad idea long term.

As I said earlier I think it would hurt them a lot more than it helped them in the long if they were to go down the road of selling anything that could be constued as game impacting - skillpoints, re-mapping, BPC' - anything beyond portraits, video's, extra ship setup's, etc.

Maman Brigitte
Licentia Ex Vereor
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:12:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 27/06/2011 18:57:28
Hello All,

Here is why I think Golden Ammo is a hard question to answer, as CCP wants to add more than just Avatar and Ship Vanity items, but I do think they don't want to add Combat Advantage items (see CCP Zulu's newest blog).

Why do they have to call the CSM in to Iceland? Well because the line between Advantage and Not-Advantage isn't the same for everyone and if CCP is going to show them their business model, they need to make sure it isn't recorded (via Skype etc).

What is on the line?


  • AUR for Remap - some people like it, others hate it, CCP said it was shelved.

  • AUR Race/Bloodline change - some people would consider it pure vanity, others may not, it could upset RP groups.

  • AUR for Skill Redistribution - some would say it flies in the face of core eve, others would say let people play how they want, you don't get NEW skills, just new places for them.

  • AUR for Jump Clone Cooldown - again, not clearly advantage, but helpful, and some would hate it.

  • AUR for Faction Standings - say you're negative and want to be positive or at least travel through their space, you could buy a short term faction boost to let you mission. If you don't think wealthy people override public sentiment, well that's immersion breaking to me, I personally wish we could bribe officials.

  • AUR for Skill Training Speed Up - bear with me a sec, what if you could train 10% faster for a period, but it was followed with a hangover of 10% slower for the same number of skill points, that'd not be breaking, some would say advantage, others not.

  • AUR for Faction Rats - say you bribe a Gurista to find out where their officers are right now, breaking?



There are many options, the question is where do you want eve to go? CCP is I suspect talking to the CSM to find out how we might feel with their future plans, why didn't the CSM know about them already? well perhaps they were further away than CCP was prepared to discuss them, we don't know. Mostly we're inventing ideas.

BUT BUT I've read FEARLESS ... good for you, from what I can tell, you're a step above most at CCP.

BUT BUT I've read Hilmar's email, he thinks we're chumps! It's possible, I found it deeply offensive, but if you look at when it was actually sent, it was before Zulu's 1st blog, it was before the extent of the rage was apparent, and I could see a world where he thought the anger was over "Ship spinning and Barbie in space" not MT.

BUT BUT Hilmar tweeted that we already have Plex, what's the problem (or similar), well there is a clear difference of perception amongst the players about Plex for isk and the effect of Ex Nihilo goods.

BUT BUT you're a CCP Alt, you ****er! to that all I can offer is to use eve-search.com and look me up, if I appear to be an alt, then I'd say I'm not in it for CCP, I hope that much is clear.

I eagerly await the excellent posts many in the community have given through the years, and I have the patience for the rest of you as well.

Best,
Apollo Gabriel.
PS: I've cancelled my sub out of fear, not fact, but fear. That's not the point of the thread, but I wanted to let you know I'm not some CCP fanboi.



EVE has a sensitive stomach.

A lot of those options would not "break" lesser games, because their players expect less of them. EVE, though, *is* the sandbox. If the sandbox is balanced, EVE is good, no matter what it does or does not contain. If the sandbox is in any way unbalanced, EVE is no longer different, no longer special, and therefore no longer EVE.

For this reason, even minor boosts would be game breaking.

Skill remaps are out of the question completely. Not only would this allow you to fly any ship in the game with minimal training, it would also allow people to train down int/perception tracks and remap those SP to charisma skills, etc.

Not okay.

BolsterBomb
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:42:00 - [49]
 

Im canceling my sub, and I wont come back even if they say "ok fine you win"

Because CCP already came out and made their intentions clear. They are not going to double back after all the fire they went through just because of a CSM meeting. They WILL introduce game changing MT. THey are going to introduce small things at first to get you used to it, then they will introduce the rest. Its a matter of time. I have decided why play a game when you know it will end up that way. Id rather spend my time on a hobby (yes eve is a hobby, one that I enjoyed alot, ask my wife..) that will continue to be the same hobby I started with. I am not going to waste time on Eve when it will end up a P2W. Its just a matter of time. I started friday saying I will only leave if game changing MT is introduced. Well....why should I stay just to see it happen down the road. It will happen its just a question of when. Don't be fooled just deal with it and make a descion. If Im wrong, more power to the Eve playerbase, but when a company has so strongly came out against its customers, they are already convinced. Remember those 52 monocils sold. 52 x 80 =4160$ / $15 a month sub fee and you get 277 accounts. Its simple math, as long as the money stream from MT doesnt dip below sub fees, they win. A lesson I learned in my business is, just because you lose clients isnt bad. If I raise my rates 5% and lose 3$=% of my clients, I win.

Jacoba Stalker
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:45:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
I'd really like to have a genuine conversation here.

Anyone else?


Why in the world would you be looking for a "genuine conversation" about a game you've aqlready quit?

Move on. And stop posting.


He has as much right to post here as you do. If he didn't, he wouldn't be able to.

ko4e
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:53:00 - [51]
 

when MT was announced a part of me died, alot of the older players will remember the days before MT's, and games after MT's Whiles indeed it has done some games well and data prove it.

It also has caused a firm divide in players. those who believe a sub is a sub and should cover the whole game, and those who like MT's only has "fluff" sure there is plenty of games that are "pay to win" but the subscriptions are estimated to be lower, whiles avg spend per player increases. thats all and good for some games, but EVE needs numbers needs players/alliances/volume. and thats the reason why "MT's golden bullets" have no place in eve.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:59:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: ko4e
when MT was announced a part of me died, alot of the older players will remember the days before MT's, and games after MT's Whiles indeed it has done some games well and data prove it.

It also has caused a firm divide in players. those who believe a sub is a sub and should cover the whole game, and those who like MT's only has "fluff" sure there is plenty of games that are "pay to win" but the subscriptions are estimated to be lower, whiles avg spend per player increases. thats all and good for some games, but EVE needs numbers needs players/alliances/volume. and thats the reason why "MT's golden bullets" have no place in eve.


I don't want golden bullets and I hope CCP doesn't either, but as I said in my OP there are a lot of other things which could be added, let's discuss those lines.

AG

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:06:00 - [53]
 

Too bad that means they they will keep introducing limited functionality and selling full access and so forth. Also some of the convenience services shrink the sandbox by making same service by player corps useless or less attractive.

Unraveller Chase
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:13:00 - [54]
 

---My thoughts---

AUR for Remap: An okay idea but I wouldn't endorse it. Remaps are fine as they are.

AUR Race/Bloodline change: - No, you made your choice when you started.

AUR for Skill Redistribution - Only within the first half year of a pilots life. Many people made poor training choices at the start of their capsuleer career. Lets the new players pay a premium to correct themselves a bit if they feel the need. After that they should know enough to not err again.

AUR for Jump Clone Cooldown - I can accept this idea.

AUR for Faction Standings - I can see this as bribing officials as mentioned, but should be done with ISK and also as mentioned to bring someone up to 0 standing. All positive faction gains above 0 should not be allowed.

AUR for Skill Training Speed Up - No. Unacceptable under any conditions to me.

AUR for Faction Rats - No. Same as above.

AUR for pilot clothing, ship skins/decals - Yeah why not, cosmetic gain only. No loss to roleplaying.

Wooker Tosk
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:13:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 27/06/2011 18:57:28


  • AUR for Remap - some people like it, others hate it, CCP said it was shelved.

  • AUR Race/Bloodline change - some people would consider it pure vanity, others may not, it could upset RP groups.

  • AUR for Skill Redistribution - some would say it flies in the face of core eve, others would say let people play how they want, you don't get NEW skills, just new places for them.

  • AUR for Jump Clone Cooldown - again, not clearly advantage, but helpful, and some would hate it.

  • AUR for Faction Standings - say you're negative and want to be positive or at least travel through their space, you could buy a short term faction boost to let you mission. If you don't think wealthy people override public sentiment, well that's immersion breaking to me, I personally wish we could bribe officials.

  • AUR for Skill Training Speed Up - bear with me a sec, what if you could train 10% faster for a period, but it was followed with a hangover of 10% slower for the same number of skill points, that'd not be breaking, some would say advantage, others not.

  • AUR for Faction Rats - say you bribe a Gurista to find out where their officers are right now, breaking?






With MAYBE the exception of the Race/Bloodline change all of those list entries have very very clear ramifications that provide a significant advantage.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 22:27:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Wooker Tosk
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 27/06/2011 18:57:28


  • AUR for Remap - some people like it, others hate it, CCP said it was shelved.

  • AUR Race/Bloodline change - some people would consider it pure vanity, others may not, it could upset RP groups.

  • AUR for Skill Redistribution - some would say it flies in the face of core eve, others would say let people play how they want, you don't get NEW skills, just new places for them.

  • AUR for Jump Clone Cooldown - again, not clearly advantage, but helpful, and some would hate it.

  • AUR for Faction Standings - say you're negative and want to be positive or at least travel through their space, you could buy a short term faction boost to let you mission. If you don't think wealthy people override public sentiment, well that's immersion breaking to me, I personally wish we could bribe officials.

  • AUR for Skill Training Speed Up - bear with me a sec, what if you could train 10% faster for a period, but it was followed with a hangover of 10% slower for the same number of skill points, that'd not be breaking, some would say advantage, others not.

  • AUR for Faction Rats - say you bribe a Gurista to find out where their officers are right now, breaking?






With MAYBE the exception of the Race/Bloodline change all of those list entries have very very clear ramifications that provide a significant advantage.


Significant? Care to clarify? I am myself mostly worried about the 45 seconds of pvp staying intact.

Venko Trenulo
Spelunkers
Posted - 2011.06.27 22:57:00 - [57]
 

I don't have better answers to your questions than the ones that have been suggested, so I'll ask some more questions. I'll preface this by saying I'm in the camp that feels it hasn't been "disproven" that PLEX is pay-to-win also. I agree that it's different from the pay-to-win of ships that come from nowhere, but I think CCP has this under control -- here's what I think more closely reflects CCP's position than some of the insulting crap they've shoveled out in the heat of the argument: CCP Zinfandel speaks.

I've always wanted an Infested Dominix. Probably a lot of other people do also. I assume lots of people would object if I could pay $3 or $5 or $10 and buy one at NEXmart.

However, what if I were to buy a BPC for it at NEXmart, and that BPC were to have the same mineral requirements as a real Dominix, and the Infested one had the same attributes?

If this is a problem because it undermines the market of people making Domi BPCs, how about if I had to trade a 1-run Domi BPC (and money) for the Infested BPC?

Or, what if I had to trade $$ and a packaged Dominix for it?

It seems to me that this kind of thing can be made mineral-neutral if CCP wants it that way.

If CCP goes back on their current intentions and starts offering golden ammo or a Dominix with 9 highs and 10 lows for real money only, I'll go out and help shoot a statue or something to "Show Them." Until then, I'm still trusting that they don't want to ruin EVE's economy any more than we do.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:34:00 - [58]
 

First, let me say, excellent questions, thanks for asking them. Let me address them in order:

Originally by: Venko Trenulo
I don't have better answers to your questions than the ones that have been suggested, so I'll ask some more questions. I'll preface this by saying I'm in the camp that feels it hasn't been "disproven" that PLEX is pay-to-win also. I agree that it's different from the pay-to-win of ships that come from nowhere, but I think CCP has this under control -- here's what I think more closely reflects CCP's position than some of the insulting crap they've shoveled out in the heat of the argument: CCP Zinfandel speaks.


Plex are very close to the "pay to win", in fact they may be "pay to win" but at least in a way people seem able to stomach. The main difference in my mind is that the player based economy determines the price, CCP has nothing to do with it, so if we as a player base want, we get to eliminate them by not using them. When you sell one, you sell it to another player, so basically it is Isk selling via a sanctioned method. Your money as the purchaser gives you an in game item, which really only has the one purpose, to be exchanged for something, however, it does give you isk, players do. My main issue is the PLAYER economy.

Originally by: Venko Trenulo

I've always wanted an Infested Dominix. Probably a lot of other people do also. I assume lots of people would object if I could pay $3 or $5 or $10 and buy one at NEXmart.


I wouldn't mind if you could get a BETTER Dominix, similar to the Gallente Navy one, but in addition to AUR you'd need a player built Dominix, again it is the PLAYER economy that matters here (The loyalty point store requires item exchange, the AUR store was built NOT to allow item exchange).

Originally by: Venko Trenulo

However, what if I were to buy a BPC for it at NEXmart, and that BPC were to have the same mineral requirements as a real Dominix, and the Infested one had the same attributes? If this is a problem because it undermines the market of people making Domi BPCs, how about if I had to trade a 1-run Domi BPC (and money) for the Infested BPC?


For Vanity items, why do you need a NEW ship? why can't CCP let you buy a paint patch for it with AUR? if it is cosmetic, then sell the cosmetic, don't call forth a new ship ex nihilo. I'd also be fine with trading a BPC + AUR for the newly skinned Domi BPC.

Originally by: Venko Trenulo

It seems to me that this kind of thing can be made mineral-neutral if CCP wants it that way.


This sums up what I want, mineral neutral offerings.

Originally by: Venko Trenulo

If CCP goes back on their current intentions and starts offering golden ammo or a Dominix with 9 highs and 10 lows for real money only, I'll go out and help shoot a statue or something to "Show Them." Until then, I'm still trusting that they don't want to ruin EVE's economy any more than we do.


I agree here, which is why I started this thread, thank you very much for you feedback and contribution to it.

Best,
AG

Jacoba Stalker
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:57:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Nidda Schottajack
If I follow your logic AG you're fine with somebody spending real money for plex which they sell for isk to buy a 100 million skillpoint character with a titan because it's a player generated ship and character, but you draw the line at it being conjured up and purchased directly from CCP. Right?


Just who do you think generated that titan pilot? Buggs Bunny? How about the titan, where did it come from? Fall from the sky by the grace of the great WambaJamba god of internet space ships?


What's your problem? I ask if I understand his position correctly and you seem to think that warrents an attack on me for asking it?


In the category of attacking other posters

Quote:
No I wasn't trolling, but when you're serious about wanting to have a conversation with somebody you shouldn't have start it off along the lines of the the other million threads the kiddies have posted - "I harve canceled my 935753 accounts but I still want to post endlessly about the game I no longer play." You won't be taken seriously by any adults in the room after a lead in like that. Anyway, I love Eve also and this has me concerned but I'm not going to go spastic and cancel. Let's see what happens over the next few days.

As for your post, I seriously doubt they'll flat out sell golden ammo P2W gear. It would be stupidly short sighted. I'm totally fine with them selling whatever they can dream up that anyone is willing to pay for outside of that. Those who are intent on buying gear, ships, skillpopints, etc for cash are already doing so anyway.



You weren't exactly being polite to your fellow posters here either.

Everyone has valid concerns. Just because they don't happen to agree with yours does not make them children and you the adult.

In fact, with a response like that it makes your maturity level look far less than those you are commenting about.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:01:00 - [60]
 

omg, what is this?

is it EVE 2015 ??? ****...

Oh, wait. I guess I know - Chinese game designers have brainwashed CCP. (As a part of counter macro ban plan). Now CCP sell the game items for USD. Just like asi-craps want it to be.

It's the damn asians that started selling characters, CNRs, LP items for Dollar. Now CCP steps right in.

Stop selling gameplay attributes. The game is indivisible and invaluable. Sell parts of it and it all breaks apart - the process will be killed.



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