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blankseplocked CSM gets wined & dined before it gets ****ed
 
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Neshtek
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:40:00 - [1]
 

I think from various quotes floating around the forum it's obvious that the CSM both understand the core issue of the recent problems (who cares about the price of something you aren't going to buy anyway, or bad CQ performance at this point.) and is willing to put the concerns of the community forward in an adequate manner, meaning without less drama and personal abuse than some of the more attention seeking posters.


Too bad none of it matters. The influence of the CSM on CCP policy has been, shall we say less than credible in the past, and I think things will only get worse from here. This has nothing to do with the individuals on the CSM, but the reality of running a company. Anyone who genuinely believes that the executive level of CCP would rather listen to what amounts to a bunch of Nerds that care very much about their internet spaceship game than what I imagine to be an entire team of economists, designers and decision makers with whom they have been working for years is naive, to say the least. The CSM will make their point, hopefully articulate, then they will have to sit through some hours worth of power point graphs and market research and finally they'll come away either frustrated or thinking that "gold ammo" is actually a good thing. Them being flown to Iceland, good for them, but it all comes down to a PR stunt at this point. I hope they'll get at least a nice trip out of it before they get sent home with their tail between their legs.


Imagine how many people at CCP must endorse the entire MT shebang when this stuff actually makes it to TQ. All of these people would lose face if they did a 180 turn in MT policy, and that is simply not going to happen just because some guys and gals tell them to their faces what's been all over the forum for a week. Personally, I have no problem with Incarna in it's current iteration, CQ are fine and just the start of better things to come, new turrets are great, NEX does not interest me. But boy oh boy will the sh*t hit the fan the day "gold ammo" becomes a reality.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:42:00 - [2]
 

Be quiet already. Whiner.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:42:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: M14D
Be quiet already. Whiner.


Running out of words finally? Wink

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:46:00 - [4]
 

Forums rage, people write articles and the sky falls...

In the end, games that included MTs have surivived, kept roughly the same or increased playerbase and increased their revenue.

Titus Phook
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:11:00 - [5]
 

At least the CSM are getting wined and dined before they get buttsekhed, CCP hasn't even bothered to kiss the rest of us, or use lube for that matter.

Evil Resident
Lunar Tech
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:15:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Forums rage, people write articles and the sky falls...

In the end, games that included MTs have surivived, kept roughly the same or increased playerbase and increased their revenue.


SWG...

Eve is bigger than the star wars franchise and can afford to **** of the community, yeah right.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:18:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 27/06/2011 11:21:29
Do not worry. If we actually had trust in the CSM then we would not be unsubscribing.

However, we are aiming directly at CCP's wallet as they have been aiming at ours. And the CSM can go and play with Barbie for all I care about.

To be quite frank, if I was the CSM then I would step out the plane, tell CCP Hilmar to turn the f'ck around and get rid of all MT, and catch the next plane back home. End of meeting.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:22:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Originally by: M14D
Be quiet already. Whiner.


Running out of words finally? Wink
In my case, I've gotten tired of repeating my argument, alongside disclaimer to clarify I'm with you, even if I'm not with you, yet (I'm of the 'waiting for more' group of moderates on this issue- and, yes, I am aware of the two things that set you all off, I just prefer to think of more than just the 'butseks' explanation).

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:24:00 - [9]
 

you guys really need to stop using CSM expenses as an argument - it's a drop in the ocean. 1000 papercuts, BFF etc. ring a bell?

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:30:00 - [10]
 

Of course employees will support EVE getting riddled with consumerism (double dipping into your wallets). CCP pay below average salaries. Employees are behind MT because it's one way for them to getting some more cake. Will it derail the FOCUS of the sandbox since a lot of effort and time will be spent on trying to get people to buy shinies instead of developing the CORE game and sandbox tools. Yes most likely, (in a best case scenario it will just derail and postpone the adressing of the real issues players have with the current core mechanics.

Will it tamper with the market mechanisms? Of course.






Neshtek
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:39:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
you guys really need to stop using CSM expenses as an argument - it's a drop in the ocean. 1000 papercuts, BFF etc. ring a bell?


Just to be clear, I'm not saying the CSM is entirely pointless. It may have started out as a PR stunt and it might be used as one again right now, but it certainly did not accomplish nothing. But please bear in mind that initiatives like 1000 papercuts etc. did never attempt to change major economical decisions.


I imagine the CSM's position more like being present in a round table during a brainstorming session about future content. They are able to throw in ideas, they are able to voice concerns and views of the community. CCP might listen to them, or they might not. However, I don't think the CSM would ever be able to overrule / change a decision that CCP has already made and to which considerable resources have already been dedicated.


Think about how the CSM advocated keeping the hangar view and making CQ accessible via a seperate icon or something like that. CCP simply decided not to implement this because they did not want to enable players to bar themselves from WiS content, since they invested heavily in said content. Forcing players to take part in this hoping they would come to accept the new content appeared as more desireable in the long run, because of the resources already invested in that technology.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:49:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
you guys really need to stop using CSM expenses as an argument - it's a drop in the ocean. 1000 papercuts, BFF etc. ring a bell?
That's not my only bloody argument. I've called out a few possible scenarios on things, particularly the stuff that set you guys off hard-core. I've just gotten tired of repeating those, in particular. I can cite the plane tickets, hotel, etc, crap all I like. That's easy. It's re-organizing the other one that tries to give a possible rationale for the newsletter and email that gets tiring. And I will reiterate: I've not been trying to say that what I had been saying is what you should believe, just trying to offer an alternative that maybe, hopefully, seems believable enough to perhaps step back and think maybe there's a slim chance we really did just misunderstand.

There's also the idea I saw recently that Zulu was saying miscommunication and betrayal of trust WITHIN CCP. And, to be honest, that's probably a more believable case for why they've been quiet than them just looking at how rabid we had been up to and through this past weekend and going 'I'm not trying to clean up this mess!', with the few responses we do get being exemplary of the problems internal to CCP merely showing themselves in devBlogs, which is poor communication.

Suffice to say, it can be exhausting reasoning with people who are convinced they are right, especially when you are trying very hard to keep your ass firmly planted on the fence for the time being.

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:32:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Stormchyld on 27/06/2011 12:32:56
Originally by: Tosser Galore
Of course employees will support EVE getting riddled with consumerism (double dipping into your wallets). CCP pay below average salaries. Employees are behind MT because it's one way for them to getting some more cake. Will it derail the FOCUS of the sandbox since a lot of effort and time will be spent on trying to get people to buy shinies instead of developing the CORE game and sandbox tools. Yes most likely, (in a best case scenario it will just derail and postpone the adressing of the real issues players have with the current core mechanics.

Will it tamper with the market mechanisms? Of course.

... with the "leaks" of internal newsletters and e-mails that the employees are for this as much as some players are thinking they might be. especially if you consider the careful timing of these releases. in case you haven't seen this, a review from several people who work for CCP, here is a link to the page. it's not a very flattering review of CCP.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm








Richard Koslinsky
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:52:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Richard Koslinsky on 27/06/2011 12:58:40
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Forums rage, people write articles and the sky falls...

In the end, games that included MTs have surivived, kept roughly the same or increased playerbase and increased their revenue.


Yes, because it worked so well for SWG.



The games it has worked for all either went free to play or were free to play, or were

not PvP centric with actual damages for getting killed. Do I really care that in WoW

another faction was able to ride in on their MT flying mounts to re-enforce their raid?

No, because nothing of value is lost in game. Oooo, a few more orc/elves/dwarfs might

get killed, big deal, they respawn and go pickup all their equipment from their corps,

nothing lost since none of it blows up and gets looted by the victors....


Just a little different in Eve.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:54:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Richard Koslinsky
Originally by: Patient 2428190
Forums rage, people write articles and the sky falls...

In the end, games that included MTs have surivived, kept roughly the same or increased playerbase and increased their revenue.


Yes, because it worked so well for SWG.



Yeah, RIP SWG.

P3ROXIDE
Wildly Inappropriate
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:22:00 - [16]
 

We need a high level goon to confirm that Mittens is a cheap date.

Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:36:00 - [17]
 

"There will be no non-vanity items for sale at this time. However, we reserve the right to change our direction if we feel it is in the best interests of our company. As a playerbase built around corporations and CEOs yourselves, you understand that we have to remain flexible to remain competitive. But rest assured that we have no plans at present to introduce items into the NeX that will upset the competitive balance of the game."

There, I wrote the opening statement up for CCP. It both takes the pressure off of CCP (by saying something while saying absolutely nothing) and leaves a nice "escape" for the CSM as they can stamp their approval and still not be blamed when CCP does change their mind (which we all know they will). No buttsex involved (or at least none required - what they do on their free time is not my business).

I should be getting paid for doing CCP's PR work for them.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:49:00 - [18]
 

Primary their wallets, and spread info about their intel around the world.

Then maybe they will be willing to listen (thought it seems probably not.)

Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:52:00 - [19]
 

Buy 'em a drink, maybe a plate of smelly viking fish, then bend over - 'cuz here comes some "pay" up your "win".



Koba

boseo
Gallente
Azure Horizon
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:26:00 - [20]
 

I will just leave This here.

sorry could not resist with some of the comments made here.


 

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