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Professional Russian
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:44:00 - [1]
 

Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.
So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.

Snuggi M
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:46:00 - [2]
 

Yeah one can say that. It just doesnt make sense that you play a game that you enjoy playing and you have to quit it to be heard. I see your point it's just not right...

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:48:00 - [3]
 

Show CCP who's boss!! BIOMASS ALL OF YOUR TOONS!

AngryMax
Gallente
Warriors tribe
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:49:00 - [4]
 

OHRLY?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/perpetuum-receives-influx-of-eve-players/

Looks like they have bubba.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:52:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.
So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.


If they were making more money today than they did on Monday I seriously doubt they'd be incurring the expense of flying the CSM out to Iceland. They've got the data they don't have to take our word on whether we canceled our subscriptions or not they can look at their logs.

The fact is that it would appear that sufficient people hit the cancel subscription button to tell CCP exactly what we'd do.

Professional Russian
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:52:00 - [6]
 

We'll see what happens, if enough people actually quit or take a break for awhile to hit CCP where it hurts, then these changes might be reconsidered. But as it stands I think they have sold like 80 Monocles or something like that, which is roughly 7 or 8k.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:53:00 - [7]
 

You know what would be hilarious? CCP Games funds the makers of Perpetuum... Laughing

Algathas
Minmatar
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:54:00 - [8]
 

Already unsubbed my accounts. Have a few days left before they expire.

Myshella Drake
Caldari
Omega Exploration And Reclaimation
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:54:00 - [9]
 


diaufop
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: diaufop on 27/06/2011 06:00:52
Edited by: diaufop on 27/06/2011 05:57:37
Originally by: Professional Russian
We'll see what happens, if enough people actually quit or take a break for awhile to hit CCP where it hurts, then these changes might be reconsidered. But as it stands I think they have sold like 80 Monocles or something like that, which is roughly 7 or 8k.

And purportedly had over 5,000 subscriptions canceled. That's CCP-metric-counted subscriptions, not posting-in-a-forum-thread subscription (NB that's a rumour, but a believable one).

Hence the panic calling the CSM to Iceland to work out how they can stop the potential bleeding of any more subs. 5K subs are worth a lot more than 80 monocles - even if they only lose 1 month of sub fees, that's $75,000 compared to $5440 from the 80 monocles. The really funny thing is that flying the CSM over to Iceland and putting them up for a couple days is probably going to cost them as much as they "earned" from the monocles.

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.
So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.


Uhmm... aren't you "a bit" late with that kind of a thread?

Let me get you up to date with the current situation:
- "Fearless" leak
- rage
- the first devblog
- more rage
- riots
- the second devblog
- waiting for CSM-CCP summit

vasuul
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:02:00 - [12]
 

heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold

http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html


http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/

http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&

http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions

http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html

http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html

http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382

http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees

http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505

http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&

http://massively.joystiq.com/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121

AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask

WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
answer us please

I hope you don't fill our sandbox with concrete
Seriously we are passionate cause we love this game and would hate to see it die if you need more cash raise subs a few dollars
and in turn give us some new missions im sure no one would complain if you were honest and said look our production costa are going up and we need to generate a bit more revenue as such rates for playing are going to 19.95
and the AUR well it was a bad idea we will just seed these non vanity items on the market or put em in the lp store



Professional Russian
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:05:00 - [13]
 

I might be late but I just got done watching some slideshow, where the dev of some stupid game said the forums went wild when they introduced P2W stuff and turned out they tripled the revenue of the game. And the same people complaining on the forums ended up being some of the biggest individual spenders.

Not saying Eve is the same beast as some 2nd rate shooter. But if we want them to stop this nonsense we need to do more than complain on a forum.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
But if we want them to stop this nonsense we need to do more than complain on a forum.

We have, read post directly above you.

MMO's have Protests, EVE has had Riots.

Kaaeliaa
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:16:00 - [15]
 

We got an emergency CSM meeting, obviously what we're doing is having some effect.

Tir Arsil
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:01:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Borun Tal
Show CCP who's boss!! BIOMASS ALL OF YOUR TOONS!

Done 2 accounts, 2.5 years, 3 chars. Gone, and not coming back.

See what I did there, Hilmar?

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.


Hey, hasn't EVE taught us anything about opportunity cost?

If I sit and station spin all week, I make zero ISK. So I fire up my hulk and go out to mine a load of veldspar, and sell it. I made more money than I did last week, so good news right? Well, if I really like mining, it's good enough news. But I could have been out running a Lvl 4 mission, and earning 10x the income. I had the opportunity to make a lot of money and I squandered it to make a little.

Breaking even on this expansion, or even pulling a bit of extra profit, counts as a big lost opportunity for CCP.

Quote:

So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.


With 300k subscriptions at $15 per month, CCP pulls in $54M/year. If you can't run a software company on that kind of income, you are in the wrong business.

Our monthly subscription fee is more than enough to pay for the upkeep and development of EVE. Why are CCP crying poor?

Professional Russian
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:34:00 - [18]
 

I understand that CCP has 600 employees. Say average cost per employee is about 80k a year, including taxes, benefits, salary ect. Thats 48mil quid just in employee costs. I would say there probably going into some type of debt as a matter of fact.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Professional Russian
Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.


Hey, hasn't EVE taught us anything about opportunity cost?

If I sit and station spin all week, I make zero ISK. So I fire up my hulk and go out to mine a load of veldspar, and sell it. I made more money than I did last week, so good news right? Well, if I really like mining, it's good enough news. But I could have been out running a Lvl 4 mission, and earning 10x the income. I had the opportunity to make a lot of money and I squandered it to make a little.

Breaking even on this expansion, or even pulling a bit of extra profit, counts as a big lost opportunity for CCP.

Quote:

So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.


With 300k subscriptions at $15 per month, CCP pulls in $54M/year. If you can't run a software company on that kind of income, you are in the wrong business.

Our monthly subscription fee is more than enough to pay for the upkeep and development of EVE. Why are CCP crying poor?



Running TQ cost alot
CCP also employs over 600 people
CCP offers lunch to employees free ?
beer.

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Snuggi M
Yeah one can say that. It just doesnt make sense that you play a game that you enjoy playing and you have to quit it to be heard. I see your point it's just not right...


+1

edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
I understand that CCP has 600 employees. Say average cost per employee is about 80k a year, including taxes, benefits, salary ect. Thats 48mil quid just in employee costs. I would say there probably going into some type of debt as a matter of fact.


Indeed.

So did you feel you got 600 employees worth of new features last year?

I don't see that EVE players should have to dig deeper into their pockets to fund other games which they won't play. CCP probably does have a sensible business need to diversify their catalogue by developing a second game. But I have serious doubts whether this has been organized in a very effective way, and EVE players are being asked to bear the costs of some poor decisions.

To respond to the original post, I don't think EVE players should feel an obligation to support CCP financially any more than they already do.

Professional Russian
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:48:00 - [22]
 




Running TQ cost alot
CCP also employs over 600 people
CCP offers lunch to employees free ?
beer.


Forgot about the free lunch. Thats more than you would think.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: AngryMax
OHRLY?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/perpetuum-receives-influx-of-eve-players/

Looks like they have bubba.

Starting a FREE TRIAL in an inferior game world does not really say much .. use the argument again in two weeks when they have to grab their wallets, provided it is still valid (which I sincerely doubt).

Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:58:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Professional Russian
I understand that CCP has 600 employees. Say average cost per employee is about 80k a year, including taxes, benefits, salary ect. Thats 48mil quid just in employee costs. I would say there probably going into some type of debt as a matter of fact.


Indeed.

So did you feel you got 600 employees worth of new features last year?

I don't see that EVE players should have to dig deeper into their pockets to fund other games which they won't play. CCP probably does have a sensible business need to diversify their catalogue by developing a second game. But I have serious doubts whether this has been organized in a very effective way, and EVE players are being asked to bear the costs of some poor decisions.

To respond to the original post, I don't think EVE players should feel an obligation to support CCP financially any more than they already do.


Those 600 employes aren't working on Eve. They're working on WoD and DUST, or overhead like marketing and bizdev. 30-50 actually working on Eve, *maybe*. We're paying the salaries of all 600, though.



Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Professional Russian
I understand that CCP has 600 employees. Say average cost per employee is about 80k a year, including taxes, benefits, salary ect. Thats 48mil quid just in employee costs. I would say there probably going into some type of debt as a matter of fact.


Need link to that employee review site.

But I recall that the average pay was significantly less. programmers/developers get 50k. So more like 30M. So, no, CCP is not drowning in debt. Remember, those devs don't get paid a cent more to develop content. That is their job, and that is what they get paid for. Developing content does not cost more unless they are paying for additional software, services, facilities, personel, or what-have-you.

I would be interested in knowing how much they are paying for facilities, maintenance, bandwidth, etc. I'm sure they do have some debt service. Every company has some and that is normal and healthy for business. I know they've been upgrading a lot of hardware lately. That has cost them some I'm sure.

Kainulf
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:17:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Kainulf on 27/06/2011 08:18:02
Originally by: Professional Russian
I understand that CCP has 600 employees. Say average cost per employee is about 80k a year, including taxes, benefits, salary ect. Thats 48mil quid just in employee costs. I would say there probably going into some type of debt as a matter of fact.

Don't forget, CCP pays roughly 50% of what could be made doing the same work at another studio. Probably save a lot of overhead that way, I'd reckon.

EDIT: Soldarius beat me to it.


edith prickley
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:21:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: edith prickley on 27/06/2011 08:26:05
Originally by: Linar Mardolak

Those 600 employes aren't working on Eve. They're working on WoD and DUST, or overhead like marketing and bizdev. 30-50 actually working on Eve, *maybe*. We're paying the salaries of all 600, though.





Yes, that's my point. It looks as if they grew quickly and irresponsibly. EVE players are paying for a huge overhead while their game is neglected.

Unfortunately, by expanding to 600 employees with one income generating title they've created a difficult situation, and the OP is probably correct: If EVE players want their game to survive, they probably do have to pay more.

But I don't think EVE players should feel that this is their moral obligation. CCP has plenty of cash flowing in to develop the game you play. If they choose to use that money differently, that's their problem, not yours, and they shouldn't constantly be coming back to the well of EVE players for more cash.

Henrica Gaufridus
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:35:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: edith prickley
Originally by: Professional Russian
Heres the deal, everyone is up in arms about this new NEX and MT stuff. You gotta actually do something, complaining on the forums is not going to accomplish anything.
Bottom line is if CCP is making more money today than they did yesterday, then they did something right.


Hey, hasn't EVE taught us anything about opportunity cost?

If I sit and station spin all week, I make zero ISK. So I fire up my hulk and go out to mine a load of veldspar, and sell it. I made more money than I did last week, so good news right? Well, if I really like mining, it's good enough news. But I could have been out running a Lvl 4 mission, and earning 10x the income. I had the opportunity to make a lot of money and I squandered it to make a little.

Breaking even on this expansion, or even pulling a bit of extra profit, counts as a big lost opportunity for CCP.

Quote:

So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.


With 300k subscriptions at $15 per month, CCP pulls in $54M/year. If you can't run a software company on that kind of income, you are in the wrong business.

Our monthly subscription fee is more than enough to pay for the upkeep and development of EVE. Why are CCP crying poor?



Because we're bankrolling their other projects: Twilight MMO and Dust. I'm sure Sony put up some money for the latter, but really they've had to expand like crazy to create a whole new FPS. Most companies would take out a loan or get some manner of financing to cover an ambitious project like that. CCP is attempting to do most of the financing in-house, which is fine and respectable. Thus, if it fails, it won't hurt as much. Unfortunately, this means that CCP is racing to squeeze extra revenue out of EVE players.

Instead of introducing things that might, you know, bring in more players or bring back older players that have left (ie bringing in new internet spaceships and more weapons to blow up internet spaceships with, which is what they WANT) we get a bunch of money-grabbing fluff that not only adds nothing to the game, but has the potential to rob from the player-driven economy.

Eh, I already cancelled. I'm just protesting until my sub runs out or I get a good answer from CCP over this crap.

Liva Daril
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:58:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Liva Daril on 27/06/2011 09:04:12
Originally by: Professional Russian
So if your ****ed about these changes and don't want to see items go into the store that will allow people with real cash to out do you, you gotta speak with your wallet.

Keeping tally of unsubbed players in googledoc. Vote of no confidence!

Hint: join the damn riots -> EVE Online: Burning Eden

But bring extenders and a Damage Control, maybe a hardener or two.
The disgruntled CCP whiteknights are slowly getting uppity and thus hilarity ensues. Laughing

Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar
Rebirth.
Posted - 2011.06.27 09:00:00 - [30]
 

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