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Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Popsikle on 26/06/2011 22:20:08
Two things actually:

1.) Whats the difference between
$$ -> PLEX -> ISK -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits
and
$$ -> PLEX -> AUR -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits

The Reason why I ask, is because even if you could buy cool stuff with AUR or whatever the hell its called how is it any different from todays system?


2.) For those who are quitting to go play WoT or something, what is that pay to win better?


I want to understand everyone's frustrations and stuff, I just don't get these two points..

thanks!
Pops

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 - [2]
 

Quote:
1.) Whats the difference between
$$ -> PLEX -> ISK -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits
and
$$ -> PLEX -> AUR -> Vanity items -> Isk -> Plex


Fixed it for you. So far, the rumors about ships and such being bought with cash are just rumors. Until there is confirmation, don't get too caught up.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 - [3]
 

In step 1, the minerals are mined, the bpo trained, and the ship is built using in-game means. In step 2, the ship is created using NPC means. This cuts out those players who make a career mining, researching, building the correct POS's and staions, managing their nulsec security, etc.

In question two, it's not. In fact, most every game I've seen with MT's, the items cannot in any way be gotten in-game without paying real money. At least with the NeX, an player can use in-game means to acquire the vanity items.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Quote:
1.) Whats the difference between
$$ -> PLEX -> ISK -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits
and
$$ -> PLEX -> AUR -> Vanity items -> Isk -> Plex


Fixed it for you. So far, the rumors about ships and such being bought with cash are just rumors. Until there is confirmation, don't get too caught up.


Im not... But even if it is for cool **** (I would totally buy a pimp ship with real $$ personally) whats the difference between that system and the one we have now, where people goto shattered crystal, buy a plex, convert to iskies and then buy whatever they want in game to give them an edge?

Tatiana Albuere
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 - [5]
 

Because the stuff bought with AUR will be magicked out of thin air. At least the other stuff has been created by players from the in-game EVE economy.

Currently, the number of supercaps your alliance has is limited by the number of supercaps your alliance can build/buy in-game. With $$ -> AUR -> Titan, it's just how big your bank balance is = how big your supercap fleet is. What meaning is there for logistics? What meaning to mining? What meaning to running pos networks?

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Demure Guise on 26/06/2011 22:25:57
Originally by: Popsikle
Edited by: Popsikle on 26/06/2011 22:20:08
Two things actually:

Whats the difference between
$$ -> PLEX -> ISK -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits
and
$$ -> PLEX -> AUR -> Titan/Hac/Sov/Faction Fits


Point 1) Those items are made by Industrialists, from materials gathered by Miners. They spent a hell of a lot of time and effort to do this and thus make ISK to make even better things in the future.

Point 2) Those items appear out of thin air.

May I say how nice it is for someone to ask what the situation is about rather than herping and derping like some of the tossers in here.

Grey Griff
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:28:00 - [7]
 

difference is that you have to pay real money for the items from mt shop to appear in the first place in game, and it is dont matter if it already made, or it is bpc/bpo

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:30:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Grey Griff
difference is that you have to pay real money for the items from mt shop to appear in the first place in game, and it is dont matter if it already made, or it is bpc/bpo


Well, yes and no. Because I don't have to pay real money. I can pay isk for all NeX items. Isk I earned in-game. Someone else may pay real cash to buy a plex so that they can have more isk, but I just buy the plex with isk so that I can get vanity items.

I know, confusing, but it's a different scheme than other game's MT systems. One I appreciate.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:33:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
In step 1, the minerals are mined, the bpo trained, and the ship is built using in-game means. In step 2, the ship is created using NPC means. This cuts out those players who make a career mining, researching, building the correct POS's and staions, managing their nulsec security, etc.

In question two, it's not. In fact, most every game I've seen with MT's, the items cannot in any way be gotten in-game without paying real money. At least with the NeX, an player can use in-game means to acquire the vanity items.


hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:36:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Popsikle

hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?


Someone had to work for the LP to get the stuff from the agents, all that mission running also impacts the sandbox.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Popsikle

hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?


Someone had to work for the LP to get the stuff from the agents, all that mission running also impacts the sandbox.


So if someone works for the ISK to buy the things from the store, its ok? But then you can always get isk with money...

Sook Statta Hahndah
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:46:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Popsikle

hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?


Someone had to work for the LP to get the stuff from the agents, all that mission running also impacts the sandbox.


So if someone works for the ISK to buy the things from the store, its ok? But then you can always get isk with money...


The item you mention, implants, only come from NPC sources, i.e., players can't make them. They can be obtained from agent awards or purchased with LP (not isk) from LP stores.

Again, the distinction is those items are single source, i.e., they only come from NPC sources. Players can't make them.

LP stores do not accept isk.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:49:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Popsikle

hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?


Someone had to work for the LP to get the stuff from the agents, all that mission running also impacts the sandbox.


So if someone works for the ISK to buy the things from the store, its ok? But then you can always get isk with money...


It's okay if they use ISK or $$$ to buy things from the store.
PLEX's are just a placeholder item in Eve. They do not generate ISK, nor do they drain ISK.
Plexes do not generate ingame items, other than a placeholder item.

What the objection about is people using isk to buy materials from OUTSIDE the box.

It's a bit like when t20 spawned bpo's, then later gave them to BOB. The issue was not that BOB had tech2 bpo's, the value of the assets they received was probably quite small in comparision to other acquisitions. The issue was that these items were spawned from OUTSIDE the box, put into the game, and gave others an advantage.

We are asking for no game-altering items/things to be introduced using RMT (MT).

If ccp wishes to sell paint jobs, fine!.
If ccp wishes to sell clothes, fine!.
If ccp wishes to sell eye patches, boots, sunglasses, or even dildo's then that's all fine!.

What we do not want is ccp spawning things like full ships, special boosters (there have been attribute boosters in the DB for YEARS, and if people could inject a quick 3 day training boost you cant tell me it wouldnt sell), special ammo, rare items, standings, or even core things we need to play the game (Like being able to block 400 people instead of just 200).

A lot of people cant see the difference, most people can, some dont care.
The people who care the least are those people who tend to dump $$$ into codes now, or those people who have bought isk or characters in the past.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:53:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sook Statta Hahndah
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Popsikle

hmm, I see your point on step1. Then again, agents give **** out all the time too right?

but on step2 that makes this MT method more fair? or more fail?


Someone had to work for the LP to get the stuff from the agents, all that mission running also impacts the sandbox.


So if someone works for the ISK to buy the things from the store, its ok? But then you can always get isk with money...


The item you mention, implants, only come from NPC sources, i.e., players can't make them. They can be obtained from agent awards or purchased with LP (not isk) from LP stores.

Again, the distinction is those items are single source, i.e., they only come from NPC sources. Players can't make them.

LP stores do not accept isk.




So the problem is with items that are isk/money sinks?

What about the skill books, nobody makes them? Or any other items like that in eve? You dont want any of them to exist? Why all the rage now then, versus when shuttles, pos mods, and a boat load of other stuff were nothing more than inflation stabalizers / isk sinks?

Grey Griff
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:55:00 - [15]
 






So the problem is with items that are isk/money sinks?

What about the skill books, nobody makes them? Or any other items like that in eve? You dont want any of them to exist? Why all the rage now then, versus when shuttles, pos mods, and a boat load of other stuff were nothing more than inflation stabalizers / isk sinks?


the problem is with items that created in game with real money

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:56:00 - [16]
 

What was wrong with the way EVE was?

Loosing money?

that only happens if they are loosing subs.

And as we all know, from the devalt and fanboi posts, EVE onlin subs have been skyrocketing at a constant pace hourly for years.

Why dont they try actualy investing in EVE if they want to make more money. Create more game, instead of selling out the playerbase.

Iakim Akrelthor
Gradient
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:59:00 - [17]
 

The whole thing is about leveling the playground so that everybody has the same chance as others to succeed in Eve without having to pay extra money. That's why MT beyond vanity items is not fair.
In the spirit of fairness, T2 BPO's should be eliminated too.
Iakim.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Iakim Akrelthor
The whole thing is about leveling the playground so that everybody has the same chance as others to succeed in Eve without having to pay extra money. That's why MT beyond vanity items is not fair.
In the spirit of fairness, T2 BPO's should be eliminated too.
Iakim.


They would have to take plex's out for that tho, wouldn't they? I would like to see that happen, but lol totally not going to.

Nevare Wong
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:30:00 - [19]
 



So the problem is with items that are isk/money sinks?

What about the skill books, nobody makes them? Or any other items like that in eve? You dont want any of them to exist? Why all the rage now then, versus when shuttles, pos mods, and a boat load of other stuff were nothing more than inflation stabalizers / isk sinks?


No the problem is not with isk/money sinks. Use your pos mods as an example. Lets say you spent a week or so training P.I. skills and then bought a bpo and did some research on it. Oh wait ccp needs some new items for the Nex store, hey how about pos mods. So much for your time and isk spent on making pos mods. I haven't seen any mention of pos mods but have seen a ship mentioned along with gold ammo. We have faction ammo now, what about the people who make their isk from that. Should that be given over to npc store too. Or the player that bought a scorp bpo and did some research and now there is a way to get a reskinned one without some one making the base model. This is what many people have a problem with. The biggest question is where does it end.


 

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