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Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 - [1]
 

Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.





So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.

Tactalan
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:31:00 - [2]
 

Very interesting and I think you're absolutely right.

Mater Dolorosa
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:32:00 - [3]
 

Don't worry : it's only a game, hopefully that hybris is not at stake irl...

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:34:00 - [4]
 

Watch what they do, not what they say. Goes both ways.

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:34:00 - [5]
 

You forget that this game bred us for this war.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:36:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.





So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.


Another alt posting ccp alt.


Anyway Even was not F2P from the get go with a cash store from the get go. That game had 7 million players.

Its not the same thing.

Terrible example peter.

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
You forget that this game bred us for this war.


Actually, if this game taught us anything, it's that change is inevitable and some wars just cannot be won.


How many firesales have you participated in, either buying or selling? :)

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 - [8]
 

It is worth listening to that paying-to-win presentation... Very eye opening.

Especially when it goes into how they tracked the people that sent them all the hate mail over mt... And found that those same people were purchasing pay-to-win items not long after.

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 26/06/2011 22:38:00
This may seem like that case but there are some fundimental differences between the situation as described in that broadcast and CCP.

The most important difference (and in fact the only one that matters) is that EA has a **** ton of money, that they can throw around and waste on possible failed ventures.

While EA were transitioning to a P2W business model with these games, they had other streams of revenue supporting them while the original customes left and new ones emerged.

This is NOT the case with CCP. CCP currently are trying to support 3 business ventures, only one of which is providing revenue. If CCP magage to kill the golden goose that is EVE, and in terms of lost subs that will actually take very little, then EVE dies, EMO online dies, and Dust dies. And CCP dies.

In short: "THIS IS MADDNESS"

VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:38:00 - [10]
 

CCP has done the math, yes.

their calculation is that if a small number of noobs spend $1,000 on skillpoints that it will offset many vets leaving.

they could be right and make some short term money, but the game is nothing without the community.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:38:00 - [11]
 

They're talking FREE TO PLAY not subscribed games.

Fail post

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator



Anyway Even was not F2P from the get go with a cash store from the get go. That game had 7 million players.

Its not the same thing.

Terrible example peter.


Lol, I agree with you. It's wrong.



It doesn't matter if it's the same thing. The same outcome is what matters.....



It's THE example. I don't really know of any better parallel in online gaming history that could be better.

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:42:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
They're talking FREE TO PLAY not subscribed games.

Fail post


I guess all I am saying is that they WILL succeed, even if it's without you, me, and everyone else in the threadnaught.
I don't like it, I am not a CCP fanboy, I have spoken out in many posts against this change, and I have been very active in doing so.

None of that changes the fact that it's going to happen.

Majuan Shuo
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:45:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 26/06/2011 22:45:15
I haven't said this before because I haven't seen any believable evidence before.

But this is probably a CCP alt.

Pee Wee Herman
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: JC Anderson
It is worth listening to that paying-to-win presentation... Very eye opening.

Especially when it goes into how they tracked the people that sent them all the hate mail over mt... And found that those same people were purchasing pay-to-win items not long after.

Indeed. While the forum speakers are naturally a small percentage of the player base, I would like to see what a full in game survey on this would show. Not sent via email, but say when you start up eve or something.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:52:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
They're talking FREE TO PLAY not subscribed games.

Fail post


AND THAT stops them at trying to implement it on a PAY subscription game HOW?

because you say so CCP-Alt, Fanboi, Paid Spy?Very Happy

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:52:00 - [17]
 

SOE, with Everquest 2 is more similar to what CCP could potentially be doing with Eve. It started off purely subscription funded, then SOE introduced MT which allowed the purchases of initially, vanity items, then they introduced non vanity items. Now (for year or so) they have subscription and a F2P offering which is free for the basics (very basic) and different payment levels to be able to use other game facilities/levels.

Since EQ2 moved from purely subscription to MT and then to an optional F2P their userbase has diminished massively such that they have had mass server merging to deal with the scarcity of players on each 'shard'.

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:53:00 - [18]
 

I smell a future blockbuster.

Eileen Drake
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
They're talking FREE TO PLAY not subscribed games.

Fail post


Free to play game added this and tripled their income.

CCP despite being a subscription based game will add this with the help of Aurum in-game currency and will succeed in generating a 25-50% (if not more) profit increase regardless of the amount of rage posts/emoquits/protests. Which is excellent business.



I agree your post was pretty fail.

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Majuan Shuo
Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 26/06/2011 22:45:15
I haven't said this before because I haven't seen any believable evidence before.

But this is probably a CCP alt.


If I was a CCP alt, I would say something like this:

"Attention beloved players,

We are going to move forward with the RMT program, including but not limited to; Golden Ammunition, Ships with higher stats, Deeds to shorten production times, and any other possible advantage we can think of to make you give us money. We apologize to the people that this might affect negatively, but we know from experience, you aren't going anywhere.

And if you do leave instead of spend more money, well then..... you drove our income per user down anyway, so in an odd sense, you've done us a great favor by leaving.

Sorry,

CCP Greed. "



Something like that.


Disclaimer: I am not a CCP alt. I am not acting like a CCP alt. In no way am I affiliated with CCP in any other way than being a loyal and caring player who is currently looking for a new game to play.


Siena Petrucis
Caldari
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:56:00 - [21]
 

Eve is around for 8 years now, very long time in the online gaming industry. Other games have perished in half that time. I guess Eve could be around for 20 more years ... Ultima Online is from 1997, and people still play it.

So Eve could provide a very stable income for many more years with only limited investment - they just need to keep the graphics up to date and support their niche target group of mature players.

Alternatively, they could go for the pay2win gamers. Trouble is with that that they loose interest very fast, so you need to invest much more in the game or create new games every few years. This means you need much more players to support it. And one failed game can crash the company of the size of CCP (EA is a different story).

So my point is ... what is right for EA might be wrong for CCP.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:57:00 - [22]
 

We have already paid for content.
Stuff paying twiceEvil or Very Mad

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:00:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Siena Petrucis
Eve is around for 8 years now, very long time in the online gaming industry. Other games have perished in half that time. I guess Eve could be around for 20 more years ... Ultima Online is from 1997, and people still play it.

So Eve could provide a very stable income for many more years with only limited investment - they just need to keep the graphics up to date and support their niche target group of mature players.

Alternatively, they could go for the pay2win gamers. Trouble is with that that they loose interest very fast, so you need to invest much more in the game or create new games every few years. This means you need much more players to support it. And one failed game can crash the company of the size of CCP (EA is a different story).



So my point is ... what is right for EA might be wrong for CCP.


You could be right. It crossed my mind too.

The only issue is, CCP has access to the metrics that you and I can only speculate on.... and they have pulled the trigger on it.
This being said, it seems the chance of success far outweighed the chance for failure.

And they have simply acted on it.

It's not about liking the truth... it's about accepting it.

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:00:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Demure Guise on 26/06/2011 23:00:54
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
You forget that this game bred us for this war.

CCP constantly patted itself on the back for making a game where it was survival of the fittest, full loot PvP, a player-driven Market economy and the philosophy of "If you got scammed, tough ****, you were a dipstick." Eve players are not Hobbit-Humpers and Elf-Wallopers in a game where defeat means you get a 15 second time-out and pop back as good as new without a mussed hair. We know defeat can hurt like a *****, yet we accept it and take the knocks. This game, inevitably, attracts the kind of players that inherently dislike bull**** and want to get where they are via effort and sheer bloody-minded determination.

I'm just surprised that CCP, of all people, are surprised at the reactions!

Stoned Dragonias
Amarr
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [25]
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDwIN9oLvY

Kale Pershaw
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [26]
 

Hell if they do go thru with advantage items on the NEX they should just go browser based too..ugh

Saska Samar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Eileen Drake
Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
They're talking FREE TO PLAY not subscribed games.

Fail post


Free to play game added this and tripled their income.

CCP despite being a subscription based game will add this with the help of Aurum in-game currency and will succeed in generating a 25-50% (if not more) profit increase regardless of the amount of rage posts/emoquits/protests. Which is excellent business.

I agree your post was pretty fail.


Same stupid post on another thread.

A free game had 1.29% of people buying an average of $20ish and this doubled when they introduced the weapons that could be bought - so 3% at a push

A paid for game charging $15 doing the same? Utter fail.

Tir Zhik
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:03:00 - [28]
 

Can I haz your stuff?Rolling Eyes

Yabba Addict
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:04:00 - [29]
 

Heh, look how paranoid so many people are about losing their ships. Imagine that this game went F2P with a P2W setup...instadeath to pvp

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:06:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Maplestone on 26/06/2011 23:11:18
Originally by: JC Anderson
Especially when it goes into how they tracked the people that sent them all the hate mail over mt... And found that those same people were purchasing pay-to-win items not long after.


That actually doesn't suprise me at all. People scratch where it itches. The people most upset are the ones who know that if they continue playing, they will end up paying.

What is interesting in EVE's case is that EVE already has PLEX. No matter it's original intention, functionally it has turned the entire game into an item shop. So the question now becomes, how much *more* income can EVE realize above its current PLEX sales by cutting out industry (aka sand).


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