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Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:26:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Holy One on 27/06/2011 10:31:25

Haha. Yeah this is the reality and its why CCP has said nothing much. Basically the percentage of people who engage on the forums is tiny.

"Forum posters are a small but specialized sub-set of the game population: They spend more, they play more, they socialise more, they care more. They panic more."

Ultimately. You can all be safely ignored in favour of the slightly lower spending but far more consistent/apothetic/indifferent majority. According to the presentation below, most of you will continue to play anyway - and you will spend to win.

If you can sit still for 42 mins and listen to this you'll learn an awful lot about how 'modern' online entertainment businesses work. There's a few differences of course between free to play and play to win and eve, but long term, they will become one and the same thing.

Brys Bennedict
Posted - 2011.06.27 10:38:00 - [62]
 

Lets see the numbers in August, when the 1 to 3 month subscriptions have run out. Then lets review this thread.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:13:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Holy One
Edited by: Holy One on 27/06/2011 10:31:25

Haha. Yeah this is the reality and its why CCP has said nothing much. Basically the percentage of people who engage on the forums is tiny.

"Forum posters are a small but specialized sub-set of the game population: They spend more, they play more, they socialise more, they care more. They panic more."

Ultimately. You can all be safely ignored in favour of the slightly lower spending but far more consistent/apothetic/indifferent majority. According to the presentation below, most of you will continue to play anyway - and you will spend to win.

If you can sit still for 42 mins and listen to this you'll learn an awful lot about how 'modern' online entertainment businesses work. There's a few differences of course between free to play and play to win and eve, but long term, they will become one and the same thing.


That graph is from a completely different game. That presentation is about a completely different type of game with a different player demographic. It was also based on a free to play game not a subscription game.

Don't get me wrong I think CCP was thinking things would follow that presentation but reality is coming home to roost.

Even if the forum denizens are a small percentage of EVE's population they tend to be an influential group, also the fact that this is a single shard universe means that this small group could reach out and directly affect the game of that bigger percentage that doesn't read the forums.

Remember part of the point the presenter in that slideshow made was that they had access to the real data. So does CCP. The fact that CCP is walking this back and paying to bring the CSM out for an emergency meeting in Iceland suggests that the real data did not line up with what EA saw with Battlefield Hero's.

TL:DR you are comparing apples(F2P FPS) to oranges(subscription based, single shard persistent world MMO).

Haulin Gneiss
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:17:00 - [64]
 

53k online= 70% botters.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:23:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Haulin Gneiss
53k online= 70% botters.


lol, no. EVE has seen a decrease in about 10k players online at all times because of the fight against botters (see frontline on the war on bots for more info).

I personally have not seen much of a differnce in my low sec area since the release except for an influx of noobies, which i whole heartedly welcome.

CCP, fightin the good fight. You have my sword!

Precusor
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:28:00 - [66]
 

53k peak after EVE biggest expansion?

fail much?

Talsha Talamar
Amarr
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:37:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 27/06/2011 12:38:18


Originally by: Holy One
.
"Forum posters are a small but specialized sub-set of the game population: They spend more, they play more, they socialise more, they care more. They panic more."

You can all be safely ignored



1. Yes.. because every handbook on public relations tells you,
that it is a GOOD thing to ignore highly activist, communicative and socializing publics.

2. Yes.. because EVE is such an easy and well-documented game, that no player who is about to stay, ever has the need to get more information. We dont need Forums, the ingame help is THAT-good.

3. Yes.. because lower online numbers after expansions and a "resubscribe-for-less-mailing" are allways a good sign.

Compare apples to bananas much ?

Either Troll or Senseless

Valei Khurelem
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:37:00 - [68]
 

I'm not trying to troll here, but the amount of people online has dropped significantly.

There are 23,385 players currently online.

Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:51:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Azztoroid on 27/06/2011 12:56:05
Edited by: Azztoroid on 27/06/2011 12:52:56
peak days at the protest had around 2500-3500 on and of devided in 4 systems. Many dont read the forum, but get the info on language chats, ally chats or just some pub chat.

Why am i stil here?? well 2 accounts are stasis, this one is plexed alive until after the 2nd July..

I dont protest ingame anymore (standing by), i think our point got hammered right into the directional offices at CCP. Why..??

Combined mass protests ingame and alot of publicity on diffrent gaming sites around the interweb...

Am i done protesting?...HELL NO!! and many many many are like me...but we have (well atleast 50% of us) grantet CCP a ceasefire until the 2nd july...

Remember alot of os dont do it because we want to grief or be a pain to others, we do it for the love to the game. We can live with alot of that Incarna, but if they are altering the sandbox so you have to pay to use the showels, well that is not EVE online....

Hope they re-think the hangar problem. Hope they hit us in the head with a sledgehammer telling us that MT is vanity only. Hope they can figure out the GFX situation....

Im full of hope, i love the game i re-sub all accounts if something good comes out of the summit....But CCP will feel the anger if they try to screwzz us over...We are ready, we just give the CSM a last chance...thats it...

Azz (sorry about the gramma, just came home from 14 hours work day)

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:52:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: A Little Girl
Well I am going to buck the trend and watch the veins on the foreheads of the rage quitters explode by suggesting this. I might not agree with it but it might show that CCP have actually been increasing their subscriber base. Now subscriptions is not the same as unique players. For all I know there just might be a lot of the same people just buying extra accounts but since we'll never know that information this is the best to go on :-

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

The daily average is increasing and past few months have been stable or slightly increasing. I guess we'll see how it shows in a couple months time.


Nah, its the 9 dollar give away on stream, cheap sells

Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
Posted - 2011.06.27 13:01:00 - [71]
 

Me and my oracle 'Paul' forcast a painful death to EvE

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:57:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Holy One on 27/06/2011 14:57:18
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Holy One


Haha. Yeah this is the reality and its why CCP has said nothing much. Basically the percentage of people who engage on the forums is tiny.

"Forum posters are a small but specialized sub-set of the game population: They spend more, they play more, they socialise more, they care more. They panic more."

Ultimately. You can all be safely ignored in favour of the slightly lower spending but far more consistent/apothetic/indifferent majority. According to the presentation below, most of you will continue to play anyway - and you will spend to win.

If you can sit still for 42 mins and listen to this you'll learn an awful lot about how 'modern' online entertainment businesses work. There's a few differences of course between free to play and play to win and eve, but long term, they will become one and the same thing.


That graph is from a completely different game. That presentation is about a completely different type of game with a different player demographic. It was also based on a free to play game not a subscription game.

Don't get me wrong I think CCP was thinking things would follow that presentation but reality is coming home to roost.

Even if the forum denizens are a small percentage of EVE's population they tend to be an influential group, also the fact that this is a single shard universe means that this small group could reach out and directly affect the game of that bigger percentage that doesn't read the forums.

Remember part of the point the presenter in that slideshow made was that they had access to the real data. So does CCP. The fact that CCP is walking this back and paying to bring the CSM out for an emergency meeting in Iceland suggests that the real data did not line up with what EA saw with Battlefield Hero's.

TL:DR you are comparing apples(F2P FPS) to oranges(subscription based, single shard persistent world MMO).


The issue of vocal minority is universal in my experience. I've observed it in every game I have ever played, mmo or not. Whether you agree or not, you are irrelevant. The majority of people have no interest in nerdy forum alting and raging irrespective of the issue on the table. Most people are apothetic and indifferent in life, let alone in internet games. Thats just fact sadly ..

Whilst you are quite right that the metrics from _a completely different game with a completely different business model_ are not in any way representative of eve, the trends generally seem to be consistent. Both in userbase 'behaviour' and how/why/when people spend their cash on such forms of entertainment.

Re: 'walking this back'. They aren't and won't. CCP is a juggernaut, the decisions have been made and the development has commenced. Nothing is going to change now. Whatever we get will be whatever they intended us to get. The CSM is just firefighting.

Objectively CCP knows the difference between f2p/p2w and Eve. Objectively they know eve is massively under exploited financially. Objectively they know who makes the best customers long term and what kind of percentage of each kind of consumer they need to ensure their profits continue to grow without killing the 'sandbox'.

The only reason eve isnt f2p/ptw is because its too old to adapt. Expect WoD to be from the beginning. Expect any new game to be.

Finally about comparing socks to sandals, remember: business is about bottom line. Business models can be wildly different but the principle motivator remains the same: profit. CCP knows that EvE can sustain and probably quite happily accommodate MT. That's what their data told them. That's why we're getting it. They aren't dumb enough to kill the sandbox but likewise they quite rightly don't give a toss about bittervets or trolls.

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:04:00 - [73]
 

I've been in the forums a lot of late, and I'm just surprised the "happy non-protester" threads are so thin on the ground. Few though they are, most of those are made by people who are labouring under the false impression we're raging against the vastly over-priced vanity items. God, some people are dense. Laughing

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:06:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: A Little Girl
Well I am going to buck the trend and watch the veins on the foreheads of the rage quitters explode by suggesting this. I might not agree with it but it might show that CCP have actually been increasing their subscriber base. Now subscriptions is not the same as unique players. For all I know there just might be a lot of the same people just buying extra accounts but since we'll never know that information this is the best to go on :-

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

The daily average is increasing and past few months have been stable or slightly increasing. I guess we'll see how it shows in a couple months time.


im sorry but a small daily average increase is not enough grounds to say buisness is a boomin.

Cage Shadownsun
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:07:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Cage Shadownsun on 27/06/2011 15:07:39
Originally by: RougeOperator

The guy making alts to make troll threads is back.

People are just getting stuff in order. They dont give you a refund on the time you have left to play so they are using it.

Not that hard to figure out.


Man, that tinfoil hat of yours must be on there pretty tight. It's cutting off the oxygen to the part of your brain that involves rational thought.

Quote:
im sorry but a small daily average increase is not enough grounds to say buisness is a boomin.


No, but a daily average increase certainly doesn't suggest it's hurting, either.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:08:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 27/06/2011 15:11:48
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 27/06/2011 07:37:10
Originally by: KakaChecka
Originally by: Valei Khurelem
I would not trust a single word from anything CCP says until we have a real and open dialogue that isn't just them using their PR tools like CSM to try and cull the now very understandable rage.


If the CSM aren't good enough how are you going to get your "real and open dialogue"?

The fact is that people have worked themselves up into such a frenzy that there's nothing CCP can do in the short term to allay their fears. Of course CCP haven't helped themselves in all this but even if they come out now and say all the right things the common response will be "we don't believe you".

As much as it sticks in the throat now is the time for the player base to follow Hilamr's advice, look at what CCP do and less of what they say.


That's the whole point, I would say that the only way to get players placated is to immediately either remove Aurum and the vanity store or to make sure that it is only vanity items that ever appear there from now until they end of time. I personally think this was a terrible business decision to begin with and if I were in charge I would have removed the store and currency the second the protests started to begin with.

Oh and I'm talking about CCP actually speaking of the forums again instead of **** waving on blogs and using moderators or CSM to do their dirty work for them.


Actually, all CCP has to do is come out and promise that they will never sell non-vanity items directly for cash/PLEX/Aurum/whatever. Ever. They could have done this as soon as the Fearless newsletter was leaked and prevented this entire failscade. But they did not.

More worryingly, while CCP Zulu said that there were and are no plans to sell non-vanity items, he hasn't said that there will not be any such plans in the future. Which suggests that CCP is committed to at least keeping the option open in the future.

As far as daily players logged on, since unlike other MMOs CCP doesn't refund unused game time it will take some time for the public statistics to catch up. But keep in mind that CCP can also track the number of non-renewed or canceled accounts that still have game time left; they wouldn't be flying the CSM to Iceland if they weren't concerned about the numbers they're seeing. Also keep in mind that the long-term health of a game depends on its "high-quality" players -- those that stick around for the long haul, and contribute to the game environment, not on the low-quality players who subscribe for a few months and then leave, for numerous reasons I won't go into here.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:09:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Cage Shadownsun
Edited by: Cage Shadownsun on 27/06/2011 15:07:39
Originally by: RougeOperator

The guy making alts to make troll threads is back.

People are just getting stuff in order. They dont give you a refund on the time you have left to play so they are using it.

Not that hard to figure out.


Man, that tinfoil hat of yours must be on there pretty tight. It's cutting off the oxygen to the part of your brain that involves rational thought.

Quote:
im sorry but a small daily average increase is not enough grounds to say buisness is a boomin.


No, but a daily average increase certainly doesn't suggest it's hurting, either.


Four of those active accounts on Sunday were my former CEO biomassing his toons.

Bloody2k
Gallente
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:13:00 - [78]
 

Monday, 27.06.2011 15:01 - 31.133 online
Sunday, 26.06.2011 15:01 - 43.345 online
Saturday, 25.06.2011 14:46 - 42.316 online
Friday, 24.06.2011 15:14 - 35.321 online
Thursday, 23.06.2011 15:13 - 35.461 online
Wednesday, 22.06.2011 15:18 - 34.027 online

Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:21:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Brys Bennedict
Lets see the numbers in August, when the 1 to 3 month subscriptions have run out. Then lets review this thread.


I can't, I won't be here anymore.


Bloody2k
Gallente
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:32:00 - [80]
 

Three of mine already runs out in July !YES!


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