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Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.06.26 18:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Herping yourDerp on 26/06/2011 21:04:49
Edited by: Herping yourDerp on 26/06/2011 21:03:00
Hello i wanted to make a thread for all the issues for CSM to bring up after the incarna ****storm.

anyways lets get started


1 Captains Quarters - simply put, we want old hanger view with an option go to CQ, we dont care how or why but CQ is laggy on most machines, overheats others and just isnt as functional as old hanger

2 MT future - the only thing in the eve world u should be able to buy is ship skins. no weapons, modules, or really anything that would change how the game is played. Vanity items are the only thing that can be sold. in the WIS world u can sell objects for rooms, clothes, other avatar accessories.

3 MT Price- look, the monocle is cool and all but the first thing u release is never the most expensive item, we need lots more cheap items for the NEX store.

4 separate graphic settings for CQ and Eve in space, CQ takes much more processing then eve even on high detail.


---------The next are issues Pre incarna **** storm that are still broken-------

Missions- jamming in missions has become intolerable, it can take over an hour to do a gurista mission simply because your jammed all day. reduce all chances of NPC jams be 50% at least as well as reducing number of jamming ships in all missions.

Content and future- Lately many have questioned CCP's future plan for eve. address this please

hybrid weapons are broken ( personally not sure of this but i see threadnaughts)

super capitals online =/= eve online

faction warfare could use improvements


--more to come if needed--

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [2]
 

I'm under the impression that this summit is to focus basically entirely on microtransactions.

Basically, there are two particular circumstances where microtransaction stuff is unacceptable.

1. Where it provides someone an advantage over another player in any way ingame. This includes things like faction standing, extra skillpoints, but not things like monocles and ship skins.
2. Where it competes with players in any way in the economy. This includes things like skinned ships without input of something manufactured by a player.

Napoleon Baleine
Interstellar Exploration Initiative
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 - [3]
 

true to the nature of the sandbox, anything purchased in the NEX that is related to either your character or ship should be destructable i.e. when podded you lose your clothes, when fancy painted ship is destroyed you don't get to apply the paint again to another ship.

Salpun
Gallente
Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Salpun on 26/06/2011 19:26:09
Seperate settings for CQ/ Space is badly needed.

Test server forums needs dev feed back of some kind dayly. Expand the bug hunter program to atleast give a summery of there know issues and a CCP response to them weekly.

Each teamTwisted Evil should be required to start a thread under there name in the forums with what they are working on and keep it updated and answer questions post there in.

Status of the last CSM minutes when will they be out?

Status of the Q and A thread are we going to get more answers this week or do we have to wait another week?

A clear seperation and clear communication about the pay to win stratagie that will be present in WOD and Dust and how to keep EVE vanity item only.

Pay to win items should not be usable in Dust/ Eve combat or if they are they should be easily targetable from orbit. Dust on Dust combat for planets can use the pay to win but have to take the chance that EVE players will form up battle fleets just to kill pay to win items.



Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [5]
 

well said, #1 & #2 especially.

we want a commitment from CCP Executive Management that AUR will not interfere in anyway with our player driven market and that vanity items remain just that, no effect on game play. nothing that can be used in game should have a means of procurement without including player involvement, i.e. ships, ammo, control towers, faction standing!, etc.

1. fix CQ so that those of us who mulitbox can continue to run multiple accounts without having to drop and extra $500 on a new gpu or run an sli. i've run 4 accounts on my rig for the last 4 years. this is not possible anymore. give me the option to undock from my ship and venture into CQ when i want. even if you fix #2, you're still gonna lose subs from those that can no longer multibox as they used to. i'm not gonna keep 4 accounts if i can barely run 2.

2.

although i absolutely HATE MT,

i can live with solely cosmetic/vanity items. that means absolutely nothing that affects game play. as a side note, you may find players more willing to accept MT if you offered some type of interesting accessories; i.e. i would love to see some of my alts running around in a bikini or nice underwears. Shocked

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
Seperate settings for CQ/ Space is badly needed.


This. I don't mind if ship spinning can't come back, and I'm sure ccp would consider very carefully before they created any MT items, but being forced to leave your pod whenever you dock is both ludicrous fluff-wise and needlessly inconvenient to multiboxers

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Salpun
Edited by: Salpun on 26/06/2011 19:26:09
Seperate settings for CQ/ Space is badly needed.

Test server forums needs dev feed back of some kind dayly. Expand the bug hunter program to atleast give a summery of there know issues and a CCP response to them weekly.

Each teamTwisted Evil should be required to start a thread under there name in the forums with what they are working on and keep it updated and answer questions post there in.

Status of the last CSM minutes when will they be out?

Status of the Q and A thread are we going to get more answers this week or do we have to wait another week?

A clear seperation and clear communication about the pay to win stratagie that will be present in WOD and Dust and how to keep EVE vanity item only.

Pay to win items should not be usable in Dust/ Eve combat or if they are they should be easily targetable from orbit. Dust on Dust combat for planets can use the pay to win but have to take the chance that EVE players will form up battle fleets just to kill pay to win items.





I understand the desire for lots of open communication, but writing up daily reports like that does take time. I would not approve of bug-fixing time being taken up by report-writing time. But occasional communication would be nice.

Blyghme
Gallente
Strohl Munitions
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 - [8]
 

I fully agree with the OP.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/06/2011 19:48:32

* clarify CCP's definition of "gold ammo" - are services like "PLEX for Remap" covered?

* last year's CSM Summit after the "Plex for Remap" debacle did result in an agreement not to introduce non-vanity MTs - apparently this didn't stop CCP from considering the introduction of non-vanity MTs in EVE nevertheless.
What can CCP tell us to make us believe them that this time is different?

* The general attitude displayed towards the customers in both the Fearless issue and Hilmar's email was pretty dismaying.
How does CCP feel about this after taking a step back to reflect about their attitude? any plans to adjust the corporate culture in that regard?

* How does CCP feel about its ability to attract and retain top talent? the glassdoor reviews are of course anecdotal and suffer from selection bias but the results of the employee satisfaction survey in the leaked Fearless seem to confirm the broad story and give raise to concern.

* Some players only play EVE for a few months, others for years. The latter ask for a degree of planning dependability that is untypically high for consumers.
What can CCP do to give them assurances without losing the ability to react dynamically to the market?
(I assume that CCP will agree that vets can be extremely uncomfortable but are essential for the meta-game and the success of EVE)

* Can the CSM be included in the internal company-wide messaging of CCP - i.e. can stuff like company-wide newsletters, bulletins, emails, ... be forwarded to the CSM?

Olaf Rasmussen
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 - [10]
 

Full removal of MT store and bringing back ship spinning.

Fixing hybrids/gallente as bonus.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp


1 Captains Quarters - simply put, we want old hanger view with an option go to CQ, we dont care how or why but CQ is laggy on most machines, overheats others and just isnt as functional as old hanger

2 MT future - the only thing in the eve world u should be able to buy is ship skins. no weapons, modules, or really anything that would change how the game is played. Vanity items are the only thing that can be sold. in the WIS world u can sell objects for rooms, clothes, other avatar accessories.



These two are the most important to me.

Regarding the first one, it looks like some of the CSM think that a simple option not to load station environment will do the trick. They couldn't be more wrong. Old ship spinning hanger is non-negotiable. See my sig for reasons why.

MezriDax
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:01:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
Hello i wanted to make a thread for all the issues for CSM to bring up after the incarna ****storm.

anyways lets get started


1 Captains Quarters - simply put, we want old hanger view with an option go to CQ, we dont care how or why but CQ is laggy on most machines, overheats others and just isnt as functional as old hanger

2 MT future - the only thing in the eve world u should be able to buy is ship skins. no weapons, modules, or really anything that would change how the game is played. Vanity items are the only thing that can be sold. in the WIS world u can sell objects for rooms, clothes, other avatar accessories.

3 MT Price- look, the monocle is cool and all but the first thing u release is never the most expensive item, we need lots more cheap items for the NEX store.

---------The next are issues Pre incarna **** storm that are still broken-------

Missions- jamming in missions has become intolerable, it can take over an hour to do a gurista mission simply because your jammed all day. reduce all chances of NPC jams be 50% at least as well as reducing number of jamming ships in all missions.

Content and future- Lately many have questioned CCP's future plan for eve. address this please


--more to come if needed--


I second all of what this gentleman said and remind CCP that your profits and loss' are determined by the players, not your experts who think they know what we want.

The intolerance and deaf ear that you've shown to us in the past is culminating into the backlash you're seeing in and out of game. No company has ever survived screwing it's own customers (with the exception of possibly Microsoft) and you'd be well advised to note that you're driving players off.

The best advertisement you have is word of mouth of satisfied players. As the PIO of my corporation I'm allowed to speak for our players. There is not one, without exception, player in our corporation who is happy with what CCP is doing. You have overburdened our computers, nerf'd the ship we worked hard to get, and turned a total deaf ear to our cries. As you keep going this route we will leave. I have already seen players turn friends off from playing eve and a couple players have already dropped accounts. When you decide to stop me from shutting off my captains quarters I give up. You will loose another four accounts because I can no longer play as I wish.

Please remember my words in the future when you need to apply for unemployment. You have a good thing here, please stop killing it.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:02:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Herping yourDerp


1 Captains Quarters - simply put, we want old hanger view with an option go to CQ, we dont care how or why but CQ is laggy on most machines, overheats others and just isnt as functional as old hanger

2 MT future - the only thing in the eve world u should be able to buy is ship skins. no weapons, modules, or really anything that would change how the game is played. Vanity items are the only thing that can be sold. in the WIS world u can sell objects for rooms, clothes, other avatar accessories.




yes for me as well
CQ makes me want to quit almost as much as the MT... CQ is more immediate though, im sure a 2nd rage will happen when they have the pay2win store in the patchnotes.

but with CQ.... idk if i want to wait that long either way.
These two are the most important to me.

Regarding the first one, it looks like some of the CSM think that a simple option not to load station environment will do the trick. They couldn't be more wrong. Old ship spinning hanger is non-negotiable. See my sig for reasons why.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:39:00 - [14]
 

Please print this out, make CCP read it all out loud, and address every point of it.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:19:00 - [15]
 

Please, for the love of god, don't even forget for a second that they're the ones that owe you, not the other way around. Don't go in there thinking you have to work or make compromises. You don't. Right now, you (and the playerbase) owe CCP nothing. Please, please remember that.

Don't be turned simply by good manners and pretty words. Be perfectly willing to say "No". You may not have much power, but you have the power to give them horrendous publicity. Work with that.

Dephlan Gruss
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:22:00 - [16]
 

Full removal of the NeX store is for me the only way to start restoring some trust, its the only way to remove the shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE because actions speak louder than words.

Turix
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:56:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Dephlan Gruss
Full removal of the NeX store is for me the only way to start restoring some trust, its the only way to remove the shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE because actions speak louder than words.


This

Merasa Tro
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:03:00 - [18]
 

My message, if I was on the CSM.

1) Option to disable / turn off / revert the CQ content.
Its a resource hog, provides less functionality than previous content.

2) MT. Commitment that NO core eve game changing items will be available. So thats ships, modules, skills, implants, ammo, BPO/Cs.

3) MT. Keep it vanity and fluff and its fine. Actually I'd be tempted to pimp out my PvE ship with a custom racing stripe.

4) BUT... Keep working on incarna, I get it. I can see where you're going. But one room, no player interaction, astounding prices, buggy implementation.. What did you expect us to say?

Tetragammatron Prime
Posted - 2011.06.27 01:18:00 - [19]
 

1) Nerf angel ships etc (anything not gallente) and faction mods so people can't buy plex then exchange for isk and buy overpowered ships/modules to gain an advantage over us peasants who have to grind for isk as well as flip burgers to pay our sub.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:36:00 - [20]
 

Just sqeeze a clear and precise answer from them to the non-vanity MT items question. Don't let them get away with dodging the issue or answering with vague metaphores. If they try to dodge it, demand to know why can't they answer it. Keep pressing them until they give a clear answer to you or your trip will have been a waste of time on that front. Whatever their position and intentions are try to pin it down to something concrete to the best of your abilities.

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:17:00 - [21]
 

The most important issue is what they have been doing to Eve. They can't possibly be proud of how Eve evolved (not) lately. Most resources seems to go to Dust and WoD, Eve get minor fixes.

I actually gave CCP some slack about that, as I guess many others did, but now when they start to milk Eve's subscribers I simply can't tolerate it. The truth is that they overextended and now they are trying to squeeze every penny out of Eve and make us pay the checks their hubris signed.

CCP: Don't fly what you can't afford to loose!


It is time to let Dust and/or WoD suffer instead of Eve and Eve's players.

I really don't care about MT prices. Trolls have monocles to buy, that's about it. However, since Incarna pretty much is a MT shop I think it is a bit disgusting that a whole expansion is targeting a select few players instead most of Eve's playerbase. Seriously. What is that about? It's like releasing ships that only swedes can buy.

Now when we have had a look behind the scene I am in fact against the MT shop. It is a flawed concept in Eve. I will never use Incarna because it is all about MT and not about the players. In Incarna I get to use MT, in Eve I get to use the player's market. Also, it is temptation. Let's face it, CCP is really, really tempted to start MTing everything. That latest blog make me give them some slack, but it is pretty obvious that they will try to introduce everything they can get away with, and the goal over time is to make us accept more and more and in the end greed will break the world.

Ship spinning. Seriously, don't mess with my ship spinning. Before this fiasco, I assumed that I would use Incarna from time to time but not all the time. Now when I am forced into that MT closet and get a glimpse behind the CCP scene... No thank you! For me Incarna is the symbol for MT greed. It is all about MT. No thank you, let me keep giving you my money to play spaceships instead.

CCP, you need to fix your own house. Take some time to think through what the Eve players have been given for their money these last few years. Take a look where the resources are ending up (I would not mind if you released that info for us to see) and ponder where Eve will go in the future. In know you have this vision about a fantastic virtual world where you have peoples, cities and whatever, but that is however far in the future. A map to how to get those things is important. This includes fixing communication and cooperation inside CCP as well.

Imuran
Zentor Industries
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:34:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Imuran on 27/06/2011 16:47:29
I know the summit is concentrating on MT but the issues revolving around Incarna as I see them

1. Confirm no plans now or in the future for MT that bring advantage to the player - be it SP, remap or "golden ammo"

2. Confirm that such items as the Golden scorpion will be released either as a BPC (Preferable) or in a part exchange deal

3. Return of the hanger view with the option to exit into the Captains Quarters with an option to start in Captains Quarters

4. Considerable amount of performance optimization is needed in CQ - both generally and for multi clients. Inclusion of seperate graphics set ups for in station and in space

5. Nex store prices are excessive and should either be reduced or more budget ranges introduced soon. Surely better to sell from a financial point of veiw 100 items at $1 than 1 Item at $60

6. Functionality of CQ needs to be expanded on rapidlly if its going to be of any interest at all, introduction of the other station interiors for variety is needed

Ana Paula
Posted - 2011.06.27 18:46:00 - [23]
 

Pre incarna **** storm that are still broken

Missions- jamming in missions has become intolerable, it can take over an hour to do a gurista mission simply because your jammed all day. reduce all chances of NPC jams be 50% at least as well as reducing number of jamming ships in all missions


1 Captains Quarters - simply put, we want old hanger view with an option go to CQ, we dont care how or why but CQ is laggy on most machines, overheats others and just isnt as functional as old hanger

2 MT future - the only thing in the eve world u should be able to buy is ship skins. no weapons, modules, or really anything that would change how the game is played. Vanity items are the only thing that can be sold. in the WIS world u can sell objects for rooms, clothes, other avatar accessories.

These two are the most important to us.

Regarding the first one, it looks like some of the CSM think that a simple option not to load station environment will do the trick. They couldn't be more wrong. Old ship spinning hanger is non-negotiable

Imuran
Zentor Industries
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Turix
Originally by: Dephlan Gruss
Full removal of the NeX store is for me the only way to start restoring some trust, its the only way to remove the shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE because actions speak louder than words.


This

Realistically that battle is lost - better to draw up secondary battle lines to limit its impact

Genghis Prime
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:23:00 - [25]
 

Bring back the hanger.

We know you have spent a lot of time making CQ but forcing people to use it isnt the way forward

Amarr Priest
Amarr
Paragon.
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [26]
 

I know ccp has been pushing for new ways to use micro transactions as other companies have success with them and I'm fine with that as everyone needs to try new things and adapt to the market, Rather than yelling at ccp about it though I would like to give suggestions cuz I know it will happen and better to embrace and shape it than cry about it.

Now I am only going off of rumors but one that sparked a huge conversation in my vent server was selling skill points. We all talked about it and felt it was a bad idea but we also recognize you already sell skill points through the character bazaar and thus if it had to happen through the new system we agreed maybe it would be ok for a training multiplier so you could train at like 1.5x faster or something for x amount. Everyone would hate it I bet but you know everyone would do it which we laughed at.

Another personal topic I have been pushing for is character name changing for 1 character per account. After the characters name was changed all people who have that character on their contact list would receive a email stating what the name was change to... If you pose the argument that characters hold your reputation, I disagree to the fact that you can trade characters and your reputation is not your own anymore and that name means nothing anymore. I have traded 3 characters and its so easy to shed a identity that I can't see the problem with renaming 1 character per account. The link to the topic I have been posting in was made by another but it has support. Name Changing Topic

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:52:00 - [27]
 

Yeah right I'm sure ccp would like the csm to inform them on the players opinions on these issues.

I can't wait for CCP to tell us what a productive meeting it was. And how the csm is really an invaluable tool for them to understand the players position. Surely due to the hard efforts of the csm CCP will commit "x" which they were going to commit to anyway given the outrage on the forums.

But whatever have the volunteer pr squad (csm) come out to claim credit. That way ccp can talk about how they really listen to their playerbase via the csm and its not just a sham pr stunt.

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.06.27 22:13:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Napoleon Baleine
true to the nature of the sandbox, anything purchased in the NEX that is related to either your character or ship should be destructable i.e. when podded you lose your clothes, when fancy painted ship is destroyed you don't get to apply the paint again to another ship.

THIS OMFG, this.

Indestructible MT clothing items set a very bad precedent. Where do you draw the line? Would MT vanity ships be reimbursed upon destruction? Would MT uber guns in dust be refunded upon death? Can we not see how this destroys the sandbox?

Also:

Free Helicity, Liang, and the others who were banned to bring all of this to fruition. Assuming the CSM meeting gets CCP back on track, these heroes will have actually done CCP a favor. CCP just won't realize it until after the first 50,000 $2 miniskirt sales.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:12:00 - [29]
 

i think it was confirmed that if you pod someone with a monocle they lose it. not sure though
eithe way i still stand on my points

CQ optional
no cash for eve items
vanity only forever and always in eve and Incarna.
the other things are basically icing n the cake, and would show that CCP is listening, also the mission thing is annoying, i cant do even a lvl 3 in a drake now cause being jammed for 2 hours isnt fun

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.28 15:42:00 - [30]
 


Here's my wish list from the CSM in Iceland.

Details in the original thread.

Summary in brief - What Id like to see the CSM seek from CCP in Iceland:

1. Commitment to restore the pre-incarna hanger view as an absolute development priority.

2. Serious consideration given to vanity-items (NeX) being produced as blueprints with player input required for manufacturing finished product.

3. Commitment to a healthy ratio of traditionally-delivered content items over NeX-delivered content items.

4. Get the truth about Dust 514 and come back with a provisional estimation of cost to play. We need to know how this is going to impact our ability to afford and enjoy the game of Eve Online.



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