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Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [391]
 

We'll see what happens, but seems like a good first step.

Telion Rethson
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [392]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.

Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


This is good - as long as you actually listen to them, and don't simply dismiss what they, and we, have to say, as the leaked email seems to suggest your CEO wants you to.

Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


Assuming you mean 'any kind of non-vanity item' by 'gold ammo', this is the exact question many, many, many, many, many players here on the forum and elsewhere have been asking of everyone at CCP, and which has, until now, not been answered at all - including in your previous devblog. This suggests, if nothing else, that CCP, as a company, has a MAJOR problem when it comes to effectively communicating with it's playerbase. Top priority, if you're genuine about 'strengthening our deep mutual trust and respect' (though I would use the word 'regaining', not 'strengthening'), is sorting that problem out.

Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: Krista Porch Braxton
Yep, they're sorry. Sorry that Fearless got leaked.

Onsa Boo
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [394]
 

That we are left arguing here over exactly what the reference to 'gold ammo' means is fckin ridiculous. Why can't we get a straight answer.

Jimmae
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [395]
 

Edited by: Jimmae on 26/06/2011 19:26:53
My 3 accounts stay unsubscribed until you act. Words don't matter. Hillmar said so.

Regards,
Jimmae

Edit: Spelling...

Hel Xaphod
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [396]
 

"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."

It's actually called "premium ammo", and we don't remember ever saying anything about no MT in Eve... where would you get that silly notion?

Baihuigau
Gallente
Skull Brigade
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [397]
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4 <-- This to be honest

Grep Oskold
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Onsa Boo
That we are left arguing here over exactly what the reference to 'gold ammo' means is fckin ridiculous. Why can't we get a straight answer.


that's called tactics

Courthouse
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [399]
 

Hey guys, it's all okay now, CCP has never been known to go back on their word before.

makansutra
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [400]
 

This account was due to expire in less than 24hrs. However, be warned CCP you have 30 days (instead of my usual 6 months) to sort this or i'm gone - 3 accounts. No false promises or lies. fix it i'll quite happily give my hard earned crust to some other gaming company!

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [401]
 

Zulu: Thank you for taking the time to once again express nothing of real importance. I do like the fact that CCP is so scared of this sh*t storm that they're actually going to listen to the CSM hahaha. Wow, you really bit off something nasty tasting if you're going to listen to our elected representatives. OMG! \o/ for the CSM.

As for directing our concerns to the CSM - I'm pretty sure 100% of the CSM already know what question we want answered. How do I know this? Because I know they can read, which is apparently more than I can say for you or Hilmar. 100% more love? I'll give you 50% more love (because you did apologize) and 50% more smoke blown up our asses and 110% no question answered.

I think many of us do understand that the newletter was meant to spark debate. I'd say it did it's job swimmingly. It did so well, in fact, at sparking debate I would suggest CCP share its internal newletters with their players from now on. You wanted debate... Isn't that what you got? Albeit with pitchforks and torches and a mad mob of people burning down the castle.

I think many of us also understand that the very topic CCP is discussing internally, whether for purposes of debate or not, is the very topic that CCP said they would never do. CCP said they would never have microtransactions in Eve, and then they arrive with nary a warning and in an environment where you are forced to walk around a couch or... buy very overpriced and mostly useless sh*t and look at yourself in the mirror. Can you blame your customers for feeling fleeced? The very fact that you're having that discussion as it relates to Eve Online is a violation of our trust. What part of that do you not get, because you keep going back to how its being taken out of context. What other context can there be besides 'we said we'd never do this' then 'oh, here's microtransactions with Incarna, btw' then 'greed is good' then 'we're sorry you don't want to buy $1000 jeans' then 'see, we sold 52 monocles - it's working!'? If there is another context we should be taking all of this in... please... do tell. Don't keep telling us we don't understand. We're not your average bear, Yogi.

So, to reitterate the question everyone wants to know:

Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?

Telling us you have no plans and never had plans to sell gold ammo is not very comforting when, really, if you think our primary concern is gold ammo then you, my friend, have missed the point entirely. It just shows more disconnect. Really, you should have just said the 'we'll talk tot he CSM' part. It's the only thing that is really relevant since you can't be arsed to answer one simple question. And by not answering that question we already know that's your plan. It's been your plan all along I'm sure. This isn't rocket science, and even if it was I have Rocket Science lvl 5 (I do love using that). C'mon man - just be honest with your players. Will we leave if you're going to implement non-vanity items in the MT store? Yes, yes we will.

Mistake after mistake, blunder after blunder. I do hope the CSM can talk some sense into you. I'm not counting on it - I'm really more counting on the CSM coming back aghast at your future plans and not getting anywhere near getting the answer that will keep us here. In other words, you're going to use the CSM as damage control now because it's convenient to do so. Throw the CSM under the bus and let them be the ones to break the bad news. Of all the sleazy backhanded... I give up. I've wasted too much time trying to talk sense into you already. Good luck with any future position you may have had hopes for there bud. You've shot your career in the foot. You'll probably be a laughing stock to any other company should CCP finally falter and die. I do hope you have some money saved up for your early retirement... or don't mind flipping burgers for a living.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:27:00 - [402]
 

MOVED FROM GENERAL


Edited by: Anna Maziarczyk on 26/06/2011 19:22:17
(not neccessarily being facetious. Some perspective if you make it that far in the post)


Am i the only one that thinks CCP needs to fire Anthony Weiners PR Team and hire someone else?

Serious.

He confirms his last devBlog as being a RAGE RANT?

He confirms dogging us out. Because of his $1000 pants addiction?

CONFIRMS OUTRAGE/BETRAYAL OVER LEAK? (this one seriously perplexes my dome)

OUTRIGHT addresses the MAJOR issue, without addressing the major issue, with a comment that pretty much says "YEAH, but were gonna be dishonest till its released."

I kinda feel sorry for CCP now. Despite everything.

I think we really do need to keep all of this in perspective. CCP has a CAPTAIN of the ship. And then hundreds of employees. I think for the most part the Team is doing what they can, but the SHIP is still driven by the Captain.

And to be quite honest, the Captain drove the ship into ROUGH WATERS, and the team is doing everything they can to keep the ship afloat.

I feel like that scene in the TITANIC movie where the ship is going down, yet the Band plays on.....

Georgiy Giggle
The Sith Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 - [403]
 

Better then nothing. Now I realy hope CSM councils are on the side of balanced game, with no donatable currency and microtransactions. Let's see what will be next.

Deep in my soul i know that protest is still not over... and ready to protest again.

Waiting for 30th of June and 1st of July.

Snake Johnson
Gallente
JOVE INC
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 - [404]
 

what you do... not what you say.

Daelorn
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 - [405]
 

Personally I don't want the aurum store at all. Nothing.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 - [406]
 

Originally by: Courthouse
Hey guys, it's all okay now, CCP has never been known to go back on their word before.



lmao

Neom Disaki
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:28:00 - [407]
 

In order for me to resubscribe, I'll need to read that not only are there no plans for any non-vanity items for RL cash now, but that this will never ever ever ever exist in EVE.

Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 - [408]
 

Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider
Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna
It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.

Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.


They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

Getting personal does no favours to your argument. All I am asking for is a clear definition of what CCP Zulu was trying to say. If it is in writing, it makes it very hard to then claim that that is not what he meant.

Leon Razor
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Just keep the protests rolling until that meeting with CSM is over. Then we'll see.


No, the protests got their attention and they are finally taking action. Stop protests to give them a chance to talk with the CSM and give us a reply. We have a time frame now, so what is the point of lagging the game for another week while they are meeting with the CSM.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:29:00 - [410]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 26/06/2011 19:29:23
Originally by: Dinta Zembo
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


Now please post another blog which actually says 'there will never be' because that's what we asked for, get it now?


He can't.

Why do have an internal document debating selling non-vanity virtual goods?
Why does one of your beloved game designers say "I want to sell much more things" (even if it was "played" or "ordered")?
Why do you implement a MT store and start off with prices far beyond anything else ever seen in the industry?
Why do you not come forth and clearly say "We will not do that"?

Because you are still trying to find a way to do it!

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one: They don't say it because they don't mean it.

Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 - [411]
 

Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:30:31
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet.

GATORAN
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 - [412]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria
I guess I will be the first to say that this have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.

But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation.
I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting.
As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us

Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.


I second this motion

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:30:00 - [413]
 

Originally by: Raven IPS
I feel like gold ammo here is an analogy for all Non-vanity items. Good job CCP.


Don't feel.

Know.

And when you cannot know, e.g. because you are faced with a statement that is not 100% clear and 100% unambiguous, then maintain a keen awareness of the fact that you do not know.

Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 - [414]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Alrione
Keep unsubbing, we are almost there.
STAY THE COURSE.


Quit already and stop posting. The sooner your all gone the better.

MT will be good for Eve and Good for the player and remember dumb ****, its OPTIONAL. You dont have to buy any of the ****.


Way to miss the point. Go read the forums again.
I will complain as long as i have time remaining.

And supporting mt in P2P game, really?
Maybe you should go play korean p2w grinders as that seems to be more of your type of the game.

Brys Bennedict
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 - [415]
 

I'm not really too convinced. It's an effort, but it comes across half hearted. You didn't listen to CSM before, but now you want us to wait a week and then deal with it? Sounds like a stall tactic to me.

I like this game, despite what you continue to do with it. But I refuse to pay money to what is starting to reek like what SOE started doing ten years ago....you know, the "If you don't like it, go elsewhere" and "We hear what you're saying, but we're doing things our way anyways," and we can't forget SWG's NGE. This was when SWG was going to bring in new players.....and only succeeded in alienating a loyal player base. What happened to SWG? It shuts down in Dec. I'd suggest you learn from their mistakes as history has a way of repeating itself for those that do not learn from it.

Still unsubbed until convinced otherwise. Going over to Perpetuum is looking REALLY good right now, especially when you continue to acrue skill points without having to have skills in queue. Maybe it's time another indie developer rose as this one seems to be too full of itself.

LISTEN to the people that pay your bills, or you can start laying people off and shutting down servers (and even offices) like SOE has been forced to do recently.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:31:00 - [416]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11

Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.

We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.

We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.

You simply chose not to hear it.

And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.

You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.

And you couldn't have made it easier.

Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 - [417]
 

So Malka, does "Ships to ammo" include SP and faction standings then?

Just so that we are clear.

Hel Xaphod
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 - [418]
 

Originally by: Georgiy Giggle
Better then nothing. Now I realy hope CSM councils are on the side of balanced game, with no donatable currency and microtransactions. Let's see what will be next.

Deep in my soul i know that protest is still not over... and ready to protest again.

Waiting for 30th of June and 1st of July.


Actually, it is nothing, unless your count smoke and mirrors as something. It is a delay tactic first, and a means to control the discussion second. Unless they release the CSM from the NDA, it is also pointless, since we would never know what they couldn't tell us.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 - [419]
 

CCP ANGRY AT US for breach of trust? ANGRY AT US?!!

WTF!

Angry that they GOT CAUGHT more like it.

This is yet another waste of time. CCP is clearly been playing for time during this whole affair, hoping that it'd blow over. So now they are calling the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting. This same CSM that CCP hasn't listened to YET regarding RMT.

CCP, you may reach a deal with the CSM. But they don't speak for us.

The reason the reaction has been so vitriolic is that WE REFUSE TO ACCEPT RMT IN EVE.

Until CCP acknowledges that reality and either removes the RMT or else bans everyone who protests or speaks up, things will continue as they are. Until all our subs expire that is.

Bendy Profane
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:32:00 - [420]
 

Originally by: Cyber Duck
Quote:
This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all


The only meaning of a piece of text is the text itself...

Learn how to do literary criticism properly.

Not like there's more than one school. Rolling Eyes


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