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Akiriy Azuriko
Gallente
Demon Theory
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [361]
 

about time you spineless people.

Alaura Aquila
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Edited by: Chribba on 26/06/2011 18:42:03

Ok, it's one step in the right direction, I'm glad to see that. And I do agree that communication is of utter most importance and I hope you do push further to improve the communication as well.

As for words cannot express... you could go youtube on our asses? Laughing

But seriously, glad you are taking the time for extra CSM meetups and I hope that there will be good results from those meetings. Keep up the good work and looking forward to what the future brings.

/c

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: Sha Dar
NOW you want to listen to the CSM...

LOL


CCP Snookered the CSM about MT and then ignored their advice on communicating with the player base after everything went to hell.

You have made it very clear from your actions that you believe the CSM to be a sham. So we're supposed to respect the results of any further conversations you have with them??

Random Lee
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [364]
 

Saying you are talking to the CSM is a delay tactic.

You are hoping that we will all get used to the game so that you don't have to revert back to pre-incarna.

You know the answer to the situation, waiting for the CSM to confirm it won't change anything.

Laruen Pleides
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [365]
 

This blog post was a lot better than the previous. I can understand the skepticism by others when it comes to the "gold ammo" comment, and I think you, CCP Zulu, might have thought that term through a bit more carefully before using it. It is being torn apart, and taking into consideration the current lack of trust on the part of the users, it would be beneficial to not use generic terms to describe what is a serious issue to many.

Each post or comment by a CCP employee that does not state specifically "there will never be any non-vanity items sold via the Noble Exchange, or any other venue in Eve" is simply going to incur more accusations that you are hiding plans to do exactly that.

I am inclined to go with what several others have already said, and that is to focus on what CCP does at this time, not what is said.

You are speaking from the position of being part of an organization that stands accused of breaking promises and deceiving the players. Whether you deserve it or not, that is where you are, unfortunately.

With many people, you are damned if you do, damned if you don't, but there are a number of reasonable people here who are willing to listen to what you say, if you are clear and concise in your statements.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.



Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Vapidity
To quote the blog:
'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'

I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes.

"gold ammo" is a WoT reference ffs...

the exact scope of that term is unclear but the parentheses should give you a clue that it is not to be understood literally...

here are some usage examples for you (from Mittani's last GSF CEO Update)
Quote:
The real controversy, of course, is not the silliness of a $70 monocle, though that does seem to indicate the venality and greed of the CCP higher-ups to many players. The controversy is the shadow lurking behind the monocle, hinted at in the Greed is Good newsletter: gold in the sandbox, a "pay to win" gold-ammo situation in EVE. Pay to Win is common enough in Free to Play MMOs, and quite profitable, but the fear among players is that CCP is trying to meld both subscription and FtP revenue models into an especially ****ty, expensive product.

[...]

Meanwhile, Jita, Amarr and other hubs have been brought to virtual shutdown by 'protests' of pubbies shooting statues and overloading the nodes while howling for CCP's blood, mad about the NeX, the Captains Quarters, Incarna sucking, the spectre of gold ammo, or just setting things on fire for the sheer primal joy of watching everything burn.

[...]

I and the rest of the CSM have been extremely blunt in our demands that CCP issue a formal disavowal of 'gold ammo', non-vanity microtransactions, or otherwise bleeding gold into the sandbox of EVE. My impression is that a quick "Look, the monocles are expensive, but we're not doing gold ammo" would have ended this crisis days ago and CCP wouldn't be down at least 2500 accounts. The fact that CCP has remained silent on the issue is increasingly being taken to imply what everyone fears - that a company which would without irony charge $70 for a space monocle will issue $250 i-win lasers.

A few years ago, we saw the impact that 'oligarchs' had on the nullsec metagame, when Red Overlord had SerLordex spend a hundred thousand dollars on Eve Online, A Bad Game. The kind of economic distortion that would come from a legalized and pervasive 'gold ammo' style of gameplay would mean that, in order to stay competitive, every PvP entity would be obliged to acquire and use gameplay-enhancing gold items or suffer for their austerity. Perhaps some of you think that 'Pay to Win' is acceptable in a competitive subscription MMO; I do not.





Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours

Blyghme
Gallente
Strohl Munitions
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:21:00 - [368]
 

CCP Zulu, thanks for the apology. However, I'm going to be watching your (CCP's) actions more than your than words. The CSM trip is a step in the right direction, with any luck they'll be able to hammer into you why we're so up in arms about this.

The internal newsletter stated that CCP wanted to sell MT ships, items and ammo in the game. The ships have already caused a stink (IW Scorpion) when you attempted to introduce them. That action alone could be seen to be validating the Eve portion of the newsletter. The part by Soundwave is obviously an opinion-piece, but the rest reads as fact/policy.

If this blog had come out on Friday then my 3 accounts would not have been cancelled and I would not have subscribed to another MMO. I'll keep watching this situation but, assuming everything goes well, it'll be a minimum of 3 months before you could possibly see my subs again. I will not be playing my accounts until they expire, I walked away from playing this game when I hit cancel.

Don Janitor Otichoda
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 - [369]
 

Looks like CCP is trying to hide the problem again with such devblog
I hope people will not believe his words and continue with the campaign against this unrespectable situation

Pandora Shadow
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 - [370]
 

Understand that change isn't always immeadite. Flame me for what I'm about to say, but seriously, calm down. The fact that these guys are coming out and saying what they are saying has to take a lot of ball grabbing. So instead of busting on them and making a bigger deal, let the CSMs do what they do but and represent us. No amount of whining, pyramid quoting, and requoting the same post over and over is going to do any good.

To that note: yes, unsubbing shows the community's reaction. Heck, shooting a statue and locking down trade hubs is also a reaction, but really, some of the things i've seen and heard ingame (Ala DIAF) are a bit extreme. We've shown how pleased we are with CCP's decisions, let them react to it, even if it is a slow one.

So guys, put down your pitch forks and let the mayor of the town speak.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:22:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.

Swecyborg
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [372]
 

Find it hard to belive that ccp manegment cant respond without the csm.
This i just an oil spill to calm people down. The CSM are just a front CCP
always do what they want anyway. But i will wait untill the matter is resolved.
If Non vanity items is introduced to NeX i will cancel my 5 accounts have been playing since 2004 so it will be a sad day for me.

Garekell
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: ifollowed through


why do CCP need to talk to the CSM to answer a very simple YES or NO QUESTION ?




They don't it's just another DELAY TACTIC. Otherwise they would have a conference call and get us information in a few hours instead of some needless face-to-face.

The more this drags on the more I wonder why I play this game anymore.

Sha Kharn
Minmatar
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.



Totaly this ^

We have not only spoken but many have also acted.
Balls in your court now and I hope you dont f%%k up a game I love.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [375]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain
As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.



No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums.


Telling someone to "Die in a fire" is the modern equivalent telling someone to **** off it's no more a threat telling someone to go F themselves.

As such unbanning Helicity makes perfect sense. I also think that Liang should be unbanned as well as anyone else who was banned for the leaks.

Doing so would go a long way to diffusing some of the tempers that are running high and would cost CCP nothing.

Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [376]
 

Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider
Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna
It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.

Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.


They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

Android Mindslave
Gallente
Mindworks
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [377]
 

_Very predictable stalling_

Not listening to what you say, looking for what you do.

Was on Perpetuum last night, one of their Dev's laid it out bare in chat what their priorities were: sever stability>>gameplay>>fancy ****.

Deja Blue
Gallente
Vimana Empire
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [378]
 

With his second blog post, CCP Zulu, still has not given a straight answer.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Tell it like it is.

We ARE going to have pay to win, non vanity items.

Forge ahead with a highly researched micro-transaction schema designed to net profits over veteran player retention.

Infuse EVE with new players.

Introduce new means to empower ones character.

Change the scope and development of EVE forever.

BE FEARLESS

At least THEN I could respect CCP.

Dinta Zembo
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:23:00 - [379]
 

Edited by: Dinta Zembo on 26/06/2011 19:24:54
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


Now please post another blog which actually says 'there will never be' because that's what we asked for, get it now?

Edit: I suppose "gold ammo" represents all non-vanity items? In which case, ^that

Inka Tsarifi
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [380]
 

plan: have each non-vanity item sold as the modified version of an item bought from the in-game market (players), it must also have the same gameplay attributes (because p2w is bad). This effectivley makes non-vanity items vanity items, and it also avoids breaking Eve's economy, as it's in fact just another version of the PLEX system, except this one exploits ego.

Evolutionairy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Leah Pendragon
"The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."

Promising

"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."

Too vaugue, a better response would a blanket statement regarding non vanity MT rather than gold ammo. The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.

what you do, not what you say...






This.

I'm quite new to EVE after finally having stopped caring about a F2P (P2W) game I used to play, where the edges of reason were pushed out further and further. I now only visit that game sporadically to catch up with friends without spending a penny. It's been rough cutting loose from clan-obligations and such.

I'm very cautious about ever getting emotionally invested in another game after that. I was just starting to think EVE might be a place to build something up again, maybe even join a corp, before all this happened. We will see if trust can be regained.

I will remain unsubbed for now.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [382]
 

This part of the blog:

'and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy'.


What's to define about non-vanity items, no SP for sale, no faction rep for sale.



Doubt this is over yet.

Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [383]
 

Edited by: Laendra on 26/06/2011 19:26:55
Sorry, a lot of us just don't trust you anymore...you've broken our trust in you too many times.

Your words appear to be a play on words, without outright answering our real concerns. If non-vanity items are off the table for now and all time, tell us that. If not, stay silent and we will continue to believe what Fearless pointed out in the first place.

Remember, a person's first response is usually the one they really meant, whether or not they say "Just joking"...we've seen your first response, and we know you weren't just joking....and that goes all the way to the top. CCP, you have ****ed yourselves hard this week. Remember that when you wallet has that big gaping hole in it from loss of subscriptions (you've lost 12 subscriptions {that is over $2100 a year, and we've been playing since the year you launched...that's 35 monocles to offset the 52}..from me and my family...some of whom were already on a break...from this fiasco).

Eterna Unum
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [384]
 

tl;dr
Watching what you do and not what you say.

The rest has already been said in this threadnaught

Inipinipocoloco
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [385]
 

until ccp show action we show action

btw if u have multi accounts dont cancel all at once - cancel one a day

we want ccp to see what we DO clearly

why should we give a ratsass about what ccp says if they dont give a ratass about what we say

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [386]
 

fair enough, you want to get the CSM out to iceland to discuss this all. Not exactly sure what more the CSM can tell you about what the community want than has already been posted in the forums, but whatever... have your meeting.

However, once its over you NEED to produce a statment that clearly explains to us as to what CCPs stance will be on our concerns and promises as to where you are going with future development.

We will be waiting and watching.....


Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [387]
 

Keep unsubbing, we are almost there.
STAY THE COURSE.

Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:24:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:23:32
Originally by: Sophie Rider
Thanks for that but i was looking for CCP Zulu's definition not yours
Originally by: Evlyna
It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough.

Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.


They have clarified. You just lack the mental capacity to read before posting.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:25:00 - [389]
 

Just keep the protests rolling until that meeting with CSM is over. Then we'll see.

Akiriy Azuriko
Gallente
Demon Theory
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:26:00 - [390]
 

i feel like ccp doesn't take my internet spaceships seriously enough >:O


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