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blankseplocked Explain to me how the NEX store is different than PLEX?
 
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Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:16:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Birdy Cephon
Yeah, and? How is this game-breaking?
Depends on how the AUR item can be used and what can be done to it, and on what was required to create it.

It can be anything from just a bit inflationary to a complete removal of a large number of professions.

Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:17:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Birdy Cephon
Edited by: Birdy Cephon on 25/06/2011 23:57:25
I think what would be cool as well, is if we could reverse-engineer T1 ships into BPOs.

Or we could rent research/development slots in Hi-Sec stations for AUR.


Here you go. Serious players, take note. This is what will be demanded, and what CCP will eventually have to deliver. It continues from there, but I'm not even going to make the obvious slippery-slope argument....the players are making it themselves.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:25:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Tippia

Originally by: Tla Atij
There is no extra value.
Then the AUR item serves no purpose and will never be used. If an IW Scorp holds no additional value to a normal scorp, then it is pointless.

AUR's sole purpose is to be a subdivision of PLEX, as cents are to a dollar. So you're right, AUR = PLEX, whatever uses PLEX has, AUR has it too (except for extending game time.) No more, no less.


Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
My PLEX, instead of being sold on the market for 400 mil, was transformed into a BPC worth 400 mil. Where is the extra value from?
The extra value comes from the product you create with that BPC.

I don't "create" anything. I transform 400 mil ISK (a PLEX) into 400 mil ISK (a BPC.) Kindly point out where the "creation" is, I may be too thick to see it.
Then I add MINERALS (from the market) and whatever other manufacturing items are needed, and make the ship.

So, all below are equivalent, with no new value ever being added:

400 mil + minerals = golden retriever
PLEX + minerals = golden retriever
3,500 AUR + minerals = golden retriever
NeX BPC + minerals = golden retriever (where the NeX BPC costs 1 PLEX = 400 mil ISK = 3,500 AUR)

I fail to see the "out of thin air" value you see being added, or the impact to the manufacturing industry.



Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:25:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Birdy Cephon
Edited by: Birdy Cephon on 26/06/2011 00:05:49
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Birdy Cephon
That's not true. The value is just transferred from real money to virtual item. The same money could also be transferred into anything else you do in EVE. You're not creating something out of nothing.
Yes you are.

$$ + Scorp → Extra value Scorp.

Remove the Scorp from both sides (which is created the same way regardless) and you have created that extra value in the market out of nowhere, just because you throw cash at it.

Well apparently you don't value money then. Maybe you could start by actually earning some for yourself.


Nice ad-hominem, but no actual argument. Seeing how a change in a game will have an impact on the in-game economy is unrelated to personal wealth.
You'd also be surprised - not a few businesspeople, software developers, people in the financial industry and other relatively well-off people play this game, and many do not sell PLEX.
Due to their regular jobs, they also have something of a deeper view into the possible impacts of business, software, and finance decisions on the game.

Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:29:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Kahza Kado
No, I'm not. Seriously show me how you can by skill points with plex with out buying a character that someone else has trained up to sell. Please!


This exact plan on CCP's part (buying SP on a character to match perfect training from that character's birthdate) is what T'Amber quit the CSM and Eve over.
It will happen.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:31:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Tla Atij on 26/06/2011 00:31:00
Originally by: Linar Mardolak
Originally by: Kahza Kado
No, I'm not. Seriously show me how you can by skill points with plex with out buying a character that someone else has trained up to sell. Please!


This exact plan on CCP's part (buying SP on a character to match perfect training from that character's birthdate) is what T'Amber quit the CSM and Eve over.
It will happen.

Vets will have a ball with that. Getting the opportunity to spend $ for all those long breaks after ghost training was disabled... clever bastards the CCPers, lol.

Edit: If they limit themselves to this, at least a rich 2 days old player won't be flying titans.

Nano J
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:31:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Nano J
Originally by: Tla Atij
@Nano J
Exactly why I said they wouldn't NeX CNRs, Navy Megas, etc, instead they would do Ishukone Scorpions, Golden Retrievers, etc.


Even still, the Ishukone Scorpion that would be purchased would deny the sale of another ship. That Golden Retriever basically purchased with cash would probably mean one less sale of a Chihuahua... or hulk.

Assuming the Golden Retriever has a bonus over the regular one then not really, they would not compete, because they would be aimed at different target audiences, through their price tag.



They would compete. If a 3rd tier BC were introduced, the prices of the other BC's would temporary drop due to demand shifting to the new BC. However, the market would shortly stabilize once players determined the value of the new BC for themselves. An Ishukone Scorp's value would be determined solely by CCP. Its demand (and the isk paid, should it be sold in the isk market) would be shifted away from other ships. However, it's price would not change. The market would either stabilize and they'd become ignored (think of someone trying to sell a fleet scythe for 200mil next to a fleet stabber for 80mil), or the item would overpower its role (think someone selling a vagabond for 50mil next to a fleet stabber for 80mil).

Ultimately, if you're in a Golden Retriever, it means you're not in something else. ...plus you like beastiality.

Kahza Kado
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:32:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Tla Atij

I feel for you, I really do. But this happens already. Let's imagine the Golden Retriever Very Happy which costs 3,500 AUR (1 PLEX.)

I could buy it on the market for 400 mil ISK (the value of 1 PLEX)
You could buy it with 3,500 AUR (also the value of 1 PLEX)
This is already happening. NOW. With non-aur ships.

What I would really object to is skill-points for ISK, or standings for ISK, or other such nonsense. But as for ships, the damage was done when they introduced PLEX, and there's no going back.


Good point.. Lets break this down, shall we?

Golden Retriever for AUR only = Regular Retriever bought for PLEX/ISK if only thing you paid extra for is the gold paint job. IF, it has anything that makes it out preform the regular retriever and is not made available to the player base through the market/LP Store, then you have just paid to have an unfair advantage. Now, IF your Golden Retriever theory involves one that does out preform a Regular Retriever then it should have extra skill requirements to be able to fly it and operate.
Uh oh! See where this is going? If your so inpatient as to not want to grind out the isk/LP or go through the already ingame PLEX system to get said Golden Retriever, are you going to sit still and wait the extra time to train for it if the same NEX store has skill points for sale too?
Now, lets say they do offer the Golden Retriever.. Is there a BPO that's going to be available for it that the player base can take advantage of?
And lets not forget that a PLEX before the announcement of the AUR and Nex store was only around 350 mill not 400 mill+ (even higher in some regions).. See? That right there is a negative effect on the economy right there!

I am not saying offering things through the new system is bad.. Just make sure what is offered is balanced and does not tip the scales of game play is all.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:35:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Nano J
Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Nano J
Originally by: Tla Atij
@Nano J
Exactly why I said they wouldn't NeX CNRs, Navy Megas, etc, instead they would do Ishukone Scorpions, Golden Retrievers, etc.


Even still, the Ishukone Scorpion that would be purchased would deny the sale of another ship. That Golden Retriever basically purchased with cash would probably mean one less sale of a Chihuahua... or hulk.

Assuming the Golden Retriever has a bonus over the regular one then not really, they would not compete, because they would be aimed at different target audiences, through their price tag.



They would compete. If a 3rd tier BC were introduced, the prices of the other BC's would temporary drop due to demand shifting to the new BC. However, the market would shortly stabilize once players determined the value of the new BC for themselves. An Ishukone Scorp's value would be determined solely by CCP. Its demand (and the isk paid, should it be sold in the isk market) would be shifted away from other ships. However, it's price would not change. The market would either stabilize and they'd become ignored (think of someone trying to sell a fleet scythe for 200mil next to a fleet stabber for 80mil), or the item would overpower its role (think someone selling a vagabond for 50mil next to a fleet stabber for 80mil).

Ultimately, if you're in a Golden Retriever, it means you're not in something else. ...plus you like beastiality.

My idea that they wouldn't compete was based on the huge difference of price (i.e. retriever 5 mil ISK, golden retriever 500 mil ISK, totally different target audiences/markets, price separation, whole other league.)

Saul Perry
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:37:00 - [100]
 

What I am surprised I do not see mentioned (and I admit perhaps this is because I am missing something) is that in addition to the obvious and simply understood differences between PLEX and AUR, this new system pulls plex from the economy.

In other words, lets say there are a few thousand PLEX in existence right now. These are really months of game time that have been bought and paid for. CCP has made their profit on these and they owe these months of game time in return for this. And, since there are some number of them, PLEX prices will be regulated by this, and by how much newbies want to get a blast of isk in game. This benefits those building ships that will be bought and those who want to pay for their own accounts with plex.

And, I suspect it's even a bit of an anxiety generator for CCP since really, they can't treat plex as pure profit but as more of a marker for something they have to make good on.

Enter AURUM. Notice we can't take aurum and make them back into a plex? Notice that they aren't micro-plex which was at one point suggested. Notice that we can't trade AURUM. There are reasons for this. Because once PLEX are broken into AURUM, that game time owed dissapears. It becomes pixels that people want and may be willing to pay for, but which will ultimately deplete the number of plex in existence without the payoff of game time intended. Every PLEX broken now becomes pure profit for CCP since that plex would have at some point been used to fund a months play and now whoever was gonna use the plex for that will need another way to pay (another plex worth another $15 perhaps). But in the end this all comes at a cost and that cost is to the players in game who want to use plex and who don't want monocles.

So any who say - don't want monocles, don't buy em need to realize it's more complex than this. Really, the transport of plex was the first step in this direction since a Kestrel exploding with 70 plex is an extra $1000 in CCPs pockets.

And all this is to say nothing about the fact that items traded for AURUM were created out of this air -- which honestly I cannot understand why so many find difficult to grasp. These more basic aspects of what's bad about MTs and especially MTs for non-vanity items should not be in dispute




Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:38:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 26/06/2011 00:40:04
Originally by: Whitehound


The NEX introduces new items, which add nothing to the game but an ISK sink.


This is wrong. An ISK sink is something that removes ISK from the game. NeX does not remove ISK from the game. Purchases made on the NeX do not alter the sum total amount of ISK in the money supply.

Re-sales of the new items on the ISK market will also not remove ISK from the game (excepting taxes and broker fees), but will merely move ISK between players.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:41:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Tla Atij
So you're right, AUR = PLEX, whatever uses PLEX has, AUR has it too (except for extending game time.) No more, no less.
I didn't say that, and no, they don't.

None of the things you can do with PLEX can be done with AUR; none of the things you can do with AUR can be done with PLEX.
Quote:
I don't "create" anything. I transform 400 mil ISK (a PLEX) into 400 mil ISK (a BPC.) Kindly point out where the "creation" is, I may be too thick to see it.
No.
You trade 400M ISK for a PLEX. The ISK remains in the economy.
You transform 1 PLEX to 3,500 AUR.
You transform 3,500 AUR to a BPC.
That BPC has a value — it can be sold for some price the market decides on, in this case 400M.
The economy now holds the original 400M ISK and a 400M-ISK worth BPC.

Congratulations, you have just added 400M worth of goods to the economy. Out of nowhere.

Quote:
Then I add MINERALS (from the market) and whatever other manufacturing items are needed, and make the ship.

You transform your BPC + Minerals into a Ship.
That ship has a value.
Naturally, you (and the rest of the market) want to recover the BPC and mineral value, so you price this ship at 600M, of which 50M is the cost of the minerals.
The economy now holds -50M worth of minerals, the original 400M ISK, and a ship worth 600M.

Congratulations, you have added 550M worth of goods to the economy. Out of nowhere.

If you don't trade that ISK, but rather go straight from the PLEX shop, then that first step reads "You obtain a PLEX for 0 ISK", and at the end of the first stage, you have 0 ISK + a 400M ISK BPC, which then turns into 0 ISK + 550M ISK ship.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:41:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Kahza Kado
Originally by: Tla Atij

I feel for you, I really do. But this happens already. Let's imagine the Golden Retriever Very Happy which costs 3,500 AUR (1 PLEX.)

I could buy it on the market for 400 mil ISK (the value of 1 PLEX)
You could buy it with 3,500 AUR (also the value of 1 PLEX)
This is already happening. NOW. With non-aur ships.

What I would really object to is skill-points for ISK, or standings for ISK, or other such nonsense. But as for ships, the damage was done when they introduced PLEX, and there's no going back.


Good point.. Lets break this down, shall we?

Golden Retriever for AUR only = Regular Retriever bought for PLEX/ISK if only thing you paid extra for is the gold paint job. IF, it has anything that makes it out preform the regular retriever and is not made available to the player base through the market/LP Store, then you have just paid to have an unfair advantage.

Not true, because I can sell you my Golden Retriever on the market.
The "unfair advantage" is not reserved to the AUR-invite-only-club. Anyone can get it. It's not AUR-only. You can pay ISK for it too. Granted, if you're a casual player, or not good at making ISK (e.g. you're a poor pirate,) you won't have the ISK to buy it. But you could.

Originally by: Kahza Kado
Now, IF your Golden Retriever theory involves one that does out preform a Regular Retriever then it should have extra skill requirements to be able to fly it and operate.

Possibly.

Originally by: Kahza Kado
Uh oh! See where this is going? If your so inpatient as to not want to grind out the isk/LP or go through the already ingame PLEX system to get said Golden Retriever, are you going to sit still and wait the extra time to train for it if the same NEX store has skill points for sale too?

Meh, if they start selling skill points I'm the first out the door.

Originally by: Kahza Kado
Now, lets say they do offer the Golden Retriever.. Is there a BPO that's going to be available for it that the player base can take advantage of?

It would be offered as a BPC.

Originally by: Kahza Kado
And lets not forget that a PLEX before the announcement of the AUR and Nex store was only around 350 mill not 400 mill+ (even higher in some regions).. See? That right there is a negative effect on the economy right there!

Indeed, the price of PLEX (and consequently AUR) fluctuates sometimes, but it's rather stable.

Originally by: Kahza Kado
I am not saying offering things through the new system is bad.. Just make sure what is offered is balanced and does not tip the scales of game play is all.

The point is, it will be offered to everybody, not the AUR-invite-only-club, there's no such thing. Granted, casual players draw the short stick if they don't have ISK...

I still don't see how industrialists are affected.

Kahza Kado
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:44:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Saul Perry
What I am surprised I do not see mentioned (and I admit perhaps this is because I am missing something) is that in addition to the obvious and simply understood differences between PLEX and AUR, this new system pulls plex from the economy.

In other words, lets say there are a few thousand PLEX in existence right now. These are really months of game time that have been bought and paid for. CCP has made their profit on these and they owe these months of game time in return for this. And, since there are some number of them, PLEX prices will be regulated by this, and by how much newbies want to get a blast of isk in game. This benefits those building ships that will be bought and those who want to pay for their own accounts with plex.

And, I suspect it's even a bit of an anxiety generator for CCP since really, they can't treat plex as pure profit but as more of a marker for something they have to make good on.

Enter AURUM. Notice we can't take aurum and make them back into a plex? Notice that they aren't micro-plex which was at one point suggested. Notice that we can't trade AURUM. There are reasons for this. Because once PLEX are broken into AURUM, that game time owed dissapears. It becomes pixels that people want and may be willing to pay for, but which will ultimately deplete the number of plex in existence without the payoff of game time intended. Every PLEX broken now becomes pure profit for CCP since that plex would have at some point been used to fund a months play and now whoever was gonna use the plex for that will need another way to pay (another plex worth another $15 perhaps). But in the end this all comes at a cost and that cost is to the players in game who want to use plex and who don't want monocles.

So any who say - don't want monocles, don't buy em need to realize it's more complex than this. Really, the transport of plex was the first step in this direction since a Kestrel exploding with 70 plex is an extra $1000 in CCPs pockets.

And all this is to say nothing about the fact that items traded for AURUM were created out of this air -- which honestly I cannot understand why so many find difficult to grasp. These more basic aspects of what's bad about MTs and especially MTs for non-vanity items should not be in dispute






Good Point Saul.

Birdy Cephon
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:45:00 - [105]
 

CCP has been creating items out of "thin air" since day one. Just look at PI command centers.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:50:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 00:50:42
Originally by: Tla Atij
Not true, because I can sell you my Golden Retriever on the market.
You would still have an advantage, because only by going the AUR route, you gain access to something more valuable than the normal Retriever, which other non-AUR user cannot produce.
Quote:
The "unfair advantage" is not reserved to the AUR-invite-only-club. Anyone can get it.
No it's still reserved to the AUR club — it's just an unfair advantage in a different area (industry and market, rather than in flying the ship).
Quote:
I still don't see how industrialists are affected.
They have to compete with a product that only AUR-club members can create.
Originally by: Birdy Cephon
CCP has been creating items out of "thin air" since day one. Just look at PI command centers.
That's called an ISK-to-item conversion (technically, a combined ISK sink and item faucet) and it's a part of the normal flow of ISK and items in the in-game economy.

Birdy Cephon
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:54:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Birdy Cephon
CCP has been creating items out of "thin air" since day one. Just look at PI command centers.
That's called an ISK-to-item conversion (technically, a combined ISK sink and item faucet) and it's a part of the normal flow of ISK and items in the in-game economy.

Yeah, but you can just buy PLEX with ISK and convert PLEX to AUR. SO it's basically ISK to AUR conversion.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:56:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tla Atij
So you're right, AUR = PLEX, whatever uses PLEX has, AUR has it too (except for extending game time.) No more, no less.
I didn't say that, and no, they don't.

None of the things you can do with PLEX can be done with AUR; none of the things you can do with AUR can be done with PLEX.

Isn't that like saying that I can't do with an Euro what I can do with a Dollar?

Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
I don't "create" anything. I transform 400 mil ISK (a PLEX) into 400 mil ISK (a BPC.) Kindly point out where the "creation" is, I may be too thick to see it.
No.
You trade 400M ISK for a PLEX. The ISK remains in the economy.
You transform 1 PLEX to 3,500 AUR.
You transform 3,500 AUR to a BPC.
That BPC has a value — it can be sold for some price the market decides on, in this case 400M.
The economy now holds the original 400M ISK and a 400M-ISK worth BPC.

Congratulations, you have just added 400M worth of goods to the economy. Out of nowhere.

I buy a PLEX with my 400 mil ISK, yes. Both ISK and PLEX are already in game. They only change hands during the trade.

Then I transform my PLEX into a BPC. The PLEX is removed. The BPC enters. The BPC now has a value of 400 mil ISK (the same value I bought the PLEX for.)

Total value in-game after trading ISK for PLEX:
My ISK (400 mil) + seller's PLEX (400 mil) = 800 mil ISK.
Total value in-game after transforming PLEX to BPC:
My ISK (400 mil, now in Seller's wallet) + my new BPC = 800 mil ISK.

Total value injected from thin air:
800 mil ISK - 800 mil ISK = 0 ISK.

So where's the new 400M from?

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:01:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Tla Atij on 26/06/2011 01:16:32
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 00:50:42
Originally by: Tla Atij
Not true, because I can sell you my Golden Retriever on the market.
You would still have an advantage, because only by going the AUR route, you gain access to something more valuable than the normal Retriever, which other non-AUR user cannot produce.

You have a point. The market seeding will be done by the AUR-club. Hmm.
I was wrong. Anyone with ISK can have AUR, there's no AUR-club.

Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
The "unfair advantage" is not reserved to the AUR-invite-only-club. Anyone can get it.
No it's still reserved to the AUR club — it's just an unfair advantage in a different area (industry and market, rather than in flying the ship).

Same point as above, I agree. Initially, before the market is seeded by AUR-buyers, the regular market will be at a disadvantage.
I was wrong, see above.

Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
I still don't see how industrialists are affected.
They have to compete with a product that only AUR-club members can create.

But AUR-club members create BPCs (at least in my hypothetical scenario): the manufacturer's bread and butter.

Birdy Cephon
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:03:00 - [110]
 

You can convert AUR to ISK no problem.
AUR => Item => ISK

Joferrut
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:07:00 - [111]
 

This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:08:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Joferrut
This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

That will suck, if it happens. At the moment it's only speculation. And also (sorry) off topic. <3

Birdy Cephon
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:09:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Joferrut
This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

That will suck, if it happens. At the moment it's only speculation. And also (sorry) off topic. <3

I doubt they would go that far unless they're planning on going F2P.

Kahza Kado
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:11:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Kahza Kado on 26/06/2011 01:12:17
Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Joferrut
This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

That will suck, if it happens. At the moment it's only speculation. And also (sorry) off topic. <3


Actually its not.. it's exactly what were talking about. Where will all this stuff he mentioned come from? Definitely not the player base. Its the same as the Golden Retriever.. where will it come from? NOT the player base or the Industrialist amongst them.



Edit: It is only speculation just referring to the off topic part =)

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:15:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Tla Atij on 26/06/2011 01:19:32
Originally by: Kahza Kado
Edited by: Kahza Kado on 26/06/2011 01:12:17
Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Joferrut
This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

That will suck, if it happens. At the moment it's only speculation. And also (sorry) off topic. <3


Actually its not.. it's exactly what were talking about. Where will all this stuff he mentioned come from? Definitely not the player base. Its the same as the Golden Retriever.. where will it come from? NOT the player base or the Industrialist amongst them.


It's easy. Anyone can buy a PLEX, industrialist or not, either with ISK or $$$, and then trade it for a Golden Retreiver BPC. From which a manufacturer makes the ship with minerals.

edit: DOH, edited my last reply to Tippia. I'm getting tired.
There's no such thing as an AUR-club. If you have ISK, you're in the AUR-club.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:20:00 - [116]
 

Tippia? Neutral

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:26:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 01:35:18
Originally by: Birdy Cephon
Yeah, but you can just buy PLEX with ISK and convert PLEX to AUR. SO it's basically ISK to AUR conversion.
No, because the ISK is not removed.
Originally by: Birdy Cephon
You can convert AUR to ISK no problem.
AUR => Item => ISK
Again, not a conversion — it's a trade. The ISK stays in the system.
Originally by: Tla Atij
Isn't that like saying that I can't do with an Euro what I can do with a Dollar?
No. It's like saying you can't do with a can of paint what you can do with a dollar. Just because you can buy one with the other at the store (with no refund policy) doesn't mean they're the same or that you can do the same thing with them.
Quote:
IMy ISK (400 mil) + seller's PLEX (400 mil) = 800 mil ISK.
<Screeching tires noise />
This is the problem: the PLEX is not 400M — it's the option to get either 30d of game time to your account or 3,500 AUR to your wallet.

But ok. Let's start at the actual beginning.

Start:. Economy holds your 400M ISK.
1. Other guy buys a 30d/3,500 AUR call option (PLEX) for $17.50 and puts it on the market.
— Economy holds 400M ISK and a 30d/3,500 AUR call option.
2. You trade 400M ISK for the PLEX..
— Economy still holds 400M ISK and a 30d/3,500 AUR call option.
3. You exercise the 3,500 AUR call option.
— Economy holds 400M ISK and 3,500 AUR ← this is where the value addition happens.
4. You exchange 3,500 AUR for a BPC. This BPC is valued at 400M ISK because that's how much you have to trade to get the call option.
— Economy holds 400M ISK and 400M-ISK BPC.
5. [the rest of it happens]

The important bit to study here is #3. Why does the value add happen there? Because it is an option, and you chose the one that adds value to the market. The other option had been to call in the 30d, at which point the PLEX had exited the economy and we'd be back at the starting position of the economy only containing 400M ISK.

Once you make that PLEX→AUR conversion, you're locked in. You cannot go back and get the "30 days and exit economy" option any more. All you can do is exchange those AUR for items and move forward.

edit: more appropriate colours for the background.

Clarice Linstrand
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:28:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Kahza Kado
Edited by: Kahza Kado on 26/06/2011 01:12:17
Originally by: Tla Atij
Originally by: Joferrut
This is just start ... in one year you will be able to buy with AUR 10% res for 5 hours or +10% speed , keys for plex , 50% faster SP learning ... and 1000 more things

That will suck, if it happens. At the moment it's only speculation. And also (sorry) off topic. <3


Actually its not.. it's exactly what were talking about. Where will all this stuff he mentioned come from? Definitely not the player base. Its the same as the Golden Retriever.. where will it come from? NOT the player base or the Industrialist amongst them.

Edit: It is only speculation just referring to the off topic part =)


Yes. When the industrialists no longer see a return, those that do it as a profession will quit. Those that have industrial alts (*wave*) will stop doing industry as it has a lower return than other ways of making money. In a normal situation, that would be sorted out by the market - as supply dropped, prices would go up until an equilibrium is reached. However, with injection of items from thin air for cash, that equation is skewed. It's easier to wait on CCP to sell ships and ammo - particularly ammo, as it's a pain to make and move, and the economy will have a RL factor replacing an in-game factor.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:29:00 - [119]
 

Tippia— Economy holds 400M ISK and a 30d/3,500 AUR call option.

Why isn't it a 400mil option too?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:30:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2011 01:31:25
Originally by: Tla Atij
Tippia— Economy holds 400M ISK and a 30d/3,500 AUR call option.

Why isn't it a 400mil option too?
Because you cannot convert it into 400M ISK. You can only trade it back and forth but never say "ok, remove this item and replace it completely with 400M ISK" — you can only do that with either 30d or 3,500 AUR.

…and those colours are still awful. Hmm. Have to try a few other ones. Laughing


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