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blankseplocked wasnt eve pay to win before aurum was introduced?
 
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MarlboroMenthals
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:32:00 - [1]
 

i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:32:00 - [2]
 

Posting in another "i still dont get the difference between PLEX trades and printing stuff out of thin air" thread

Veranov
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:36:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


No, because someone has to make that ISK in game. If no one wanted to buy your plex, then it would rot on the market with no one to buy it.

MarlboroMenthals
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:37:00 - [4]
 

so the difference is paying a player vs ccp?

Shigeru Potatomoto
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:42:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Shigeru Potatomoto on 25/06/2011 17:42:19
Difference is the player thinks he owns the game. CCP knows they own it. You people honestly think CCP wouldn't give PLEX a set ISK value if nobody paid for them?

Krist Alana
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


You people who don't understand the issue maybe do some reading before you post.

Los Quinton
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:43:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Posting in another "i still dont get the difference between PLEX trades and printing stuff out of thin air" thread


Glad players build the ship I get when I get podded...

baltec1
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:45:00 - [8]
 

Current system:

Miners get the resources
Industrialists buy the resources and build the ships/mods/ammo
Player buys finished products
Transports ship to the warzone

AUR system:

Player pays cash and ship magically pops up where he needs it.

Transporter Slave
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:45:00 - [9]
 

They will only be seeding BPC's and they will be requiring an input of original stuff from the eve economy in the NeX, no?


So OP is right.

MarlboroMenthals
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:45:00 - [10]
 

i get it you think its gonna ruin your profit margins for internet space ships. the ships bought with aurum are still gonna blow up...

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:47:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


Yes and No.

On the individual level yes. Anyone could/can sell some plexes and buy something big.

On a global scale it's more limited because the amount of people willing to sell PLEX needs to match the number of people willing to cash them in for game time. So wealth would be transferred, but it is just a transfer between game-time and ISK.

In theory the same could happen without PLEX and probably does. Imagine a corporation or alliance financially backed by a large number of players. This would shift ISK and make a few persons have more financial might than they would otherwise have.

On a global level I don't see much difference between those two cases.

In my oppinion PLEX sales is the least damaging type of money trade possible.

If extra value gets funneled into the game world it could upset the global balance that PLEX had. I emphasize _could_ because it is far from certain.

Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:47:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Cartheron Crust on 25/06/2011 17:48:01
Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


When you sell a plex for isk. That isk you get came from in game actvity. Then when you use that isk to purcahse something from a player the thing you purchased came from ingame activity, be it a maunfactured ship/module, a looted module from rats, minerals from being mined etc.

IF you buy a ship/module/ammo/structure/whatever for AUR from CCP it just appears out of nothing.

Try to work out for yourself why this is a bad idea in a (as much as possible) closed sandbox multiplayer game.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


People buy PLEX (for money) and sell PLEX (for isk)

That isk gets used to buy things in-game that players have researched, manufactured and sold thus not breaking the sandbox.

Buying things from the NeX store involves short-circuiting the player market in Eve because you are buying Plex/converting to Aurum and getting things directly from the Micro Transactional fairy without needing players to build and sell them.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:49:00 - [14]
 

I think it would be fun to watch the OP attempt to balance a budget.

Rhivre
Caldari
TarNec
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Current system:

Miners get the resources
Industrialists buy the resources and build the ships/mods/ammo
Player buys finished products
Transports ship to the warzone

AUR system:

Player pays cash and ship magically pops up where he needs it.


Show me where that is stated

For all you (or I) know, it may be like that, or equally it may be like LP stores, or it may be neither, and never happen.

Noddy Comet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Veranov
Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


No, because someone has to make that ISK in game. If no one wanted to buy your plex, then it would rot on the market with no one to buy it.


And yet Jita PLEX prices have barely moved ~10 mil in average in the last week since the new "pay to win" system everyone is crying about was released.....

Last I checked, I could (and did) buy my plex's directly from CCP, and sell them for ISK to buy ships, now apparently according to hundreds of whiners shooting inanimate objects in Jita, I am "forced" at the end of a railgun to buy plex from CCP (or the market) and convert them to the new pixel-cash to buy shiny baubles and alleged "game winning" items that are not currently in game nor confirmed to ever really become a reality..

Still not seeing the difference between buying a PLEX before to convert to ISK and now to convert to Barbie Bucks. Rolling Eyes

Krist Alana
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:51:00 - [17]
 

To make it very clear.

If you can buy ships/modules/ammo from NeX 'out of thin air', then mining and industry become obsolete.

Transporter Slave
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:54:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Transporter Slave on 25/06/2011 17:54:42
Originally by: Krist Alana
To make it very clear.

If you can buy ships/modules/ammo from NeX 'out of thin air', then mining and industry become obsolete.


They will only be seeding BPC's and they will be requiring an input of original stuff from the eve economy in the NeX. (as per alliance tournament eveTV)

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:55:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Transporter Slave
They will only be seeding BPC's and they will be requiring an input of original stuff from the eve economy in the NeX, no?

So OP is right.
CCP wanted to test run paintings with ships out of thin air for a week..
The newsletter they have to communicate the new company vision to their grunts talks about ships+ammo+faction standing for AUR..
CCP also removed local fitting storage (unlimited) and thinks about reintroducing an AUR service that would allow you to have more than the current 50 server side saved fittings.
And to top it of the CEO plays hard-ball in the leaked global 'stay course' mail.

MarlboroMenthals
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Krist Alana
To make it very clear.

If you can buy ships/modules/ammo from NeX 'out of thin air', then mining and industry become obsolete.


yes because everyone has the thousands of dollars to spend on ships it would take for that

larry hotter bigpants
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:57:00 - [21]
 

The fact is we have been asking for clarification on it for three entire days or more and all we get is nothing.

We know that CCP and the CSM have different opinions on what was actually said which really means its CCPs way and that means ships from thin air.

Seriously, can people not read what CCP and the CSM have been saying and more importantly what CCP wont explain to us. The CSM doesn't know cause they were ignored.

It should be simple for CCP to come in, explain how their magic aur store will work, but they wont because the answer is going to loss them more subs then they ever figured and their hiding. Hiding behind, lies, lies, more lies and oh yes even more lies.


Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:57:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1537555&page=1 read and learn please

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:57:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Rhivre
For all you (or I) know, it may be like that, or equally it may be like LP stores, or it may be neither, and never happen.
All we know is that right now, the NeX store isn't capable of doing that. Nor is it capable of dispensing blueprints of any kind. It can only accept AUR, and it can only spit out "parameter-less" items (i.e. finished stuff).

We have been told that they're going to fix that, but if/when/how it will happen, we don't know (and given their recent history, CCP saying that something will or will not happen doesn't mean much to a lot of people).

Transporter Slave
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:58:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Transporter Slave on 25/06/2011 18:00:19
Edited by: Transporter Slave on 25/06/2011 17:58:54
More fittings for AUR? -> No real advantage and imo a genuinely good idea to actually implement. I'll still use import/export though so ****off.
Faction ammo for AUR? -> Will come with link to normal ammo and aur
+10 implants for AUR? -> Will come with the need for 2x (or 3x) +5 implants and AUR



All AUR can be attained by isk.
Where is your problem?



Not saying i'm all for it.
Just saying you're all clueless in this and CCP isn't exactly moving on charted waters neither.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:59:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Rhivre


For all you (or I) know, it may be like that, or equally it may be like LP stores, or it may be neither, and never happen.


The greed is good newsletter.

The comment was the sale of none vanity items.

Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:01:00 - [26]
 

What if you can only buy the blueprint?

Or to buy something with aurum you first MUST provide some materials from in game?

Or fairies sprinkled love around the room?

You'll notice that all these points have something in common, they are hypothetical. Just like EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT made based on what may happen in the future regarding MT for non-vanity items.

I understand the whole keep eve like eve stuff, I love the game to but the sheer quantity of BS entering the arguments people give in this forum and presented as fact are ridiculous.


MarlboroMenthals
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1537555&page=1 read and learn please


you guys are idiots thats pure speculations show me where ccp has said they are gonna offer those items

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:05:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
Originally by: Da Gooch
Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
i dont the see difference you could always buy plex with money and sell it for isk isnt that pay to win?


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1537555&page=1 read and learn please


you guys are idiots thats pure speculations show me where ccp has said they are gonna offer those items


I can tell you where they didn't say it. That 280+ threadnought asking for a straight answer on this matter.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:06:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: MarlboroMenthals
Originally by: Krist Alana
To make it very clear.

If you can buy ships/modules/ammo from NeX 'out of thin air', then mining and industry become obsolete.


yes because everyone has the thousands of dollars to spend on ships it would take for that


No, but some probably will. And if enough cash is spent that way a lot of in-game manufacturing could become obsolete. People will stop manufacturing and selling ships and mods.

This tends to hurt new players the most, because they don't have the social network to make up for the lack of a proper market. Happens in a lot of games.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:06:00 - [30]
 

Mission Loot appears out of nothing too. Something which some people fail to see. So do ships awarded in tutorial missions for example, and various other things. But yeah, taking to much away from the players overall, is a bad thing.

Currently, the EVE economy sucks, (despite what some would have you think), and much of it is in fact supplied by bots, while the markets are most often manipulated by them. If a bot is involved, it is the same as making something appear out of thin air, and a lot of people fail to see this or recognize it for what it is. That's a form of rationalization.

The reality: If they didn't run bots, the market wouldn't be seeded with half, or even a quarter the minerals it is. If they didn't run market bots, the market would be more stable and real players trying to trade would be competing against real players, who had the same limitations as they do. A market bot can continuously check orders and modify them based on a few basic commands.

This can cover dozens, or even hundreds of orders, and the result is a device which can drive the price-point to a handicapping level as needed, and float it back up again to produce profit once the competing factor has vanished through attrition or being bought out by the bot for next to nothing.

Between these two factors, the market in EVE is driven not by the players, and almost entirely by the RMTs through means which do not even require them to play, while they can run hundreds of low-end PC's with multiple accounts to do this if they so wish. A low end PC, for reference, can cost as little as $50, or as much as $250, depending on what you get. Until Incarna, that PC could run multiple EVE clients simultaneously, without difficulty in most cases.

So regarding your question: The difference? At this point, and under these circumstances, there is none, or marginally little anyway. Without the influence of RMT, botting, and the like, the difference would be a lot more profound, because actual players would be providing the vast majority of what is available.


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