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Mindseamstress
Gallente
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mindseamstress on 25/06/2011 14:28:36
Regardless how much I hate this new expansion (and yes I really think it's rubbish), I do love Eve and wanted to make the point that if this game is to expand, then CCP does need to make a decent amount of money. Good developers are very expensive I am sure, as is probably the hardware needed to run this thing. Not to mention that I also think CCP should be well rewarded financially for what they have created over the past 10 years.

I have no idea what CCP's financials look like, what their budget is, nor what their business plan is for the next few years. What I do know is that RTM is very unlikely to have a positive financial impact given the feedback to date. I also think CCP should finally recognize this by now...

There needs to be a way though for this game to either gain a lot more critical mass or alternatively for players to be willing to pay higher sub fees. Incarna as presented in this last expansion doesn't quite seem to be the way forward, so any ideas what would be? How can CCP get say, 1m subs within 3-5 years?

This thread is really to see if there are any good ideas out there. I am sure CCP will appreciate some constructive feedback (although I must say they haven't been very constructive so far on their end).

Any ideas?


HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 25/06/2011 14:33:49

Cool story broLaughing

Maybe it would help if they spend the money they get on eve and not on garbage console games.

Mindseamstress
Gallente
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:41:00 - [3]
 

Loads of ideas... Laughing

Thom Baron
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:43:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Thom Baron on 25/06/2011 14:43:20
First off, they couldve probably bump subs to 19.95 straight up if they hadn't ****ed everyone off.. now I'm not sure. i guess it would still be ok, we all really do love our spaceships, despite what's happening.

As for drawing in new players:
The biggest thing IMO is making the jump from highsec to 00 - there is way too much punishment for pvping in lowsec (sec status - should be for podding, but not for attacking.. everyone is warned before they enter lowsec), - I found myself that it was really hard to keep my motivation going after I was bored with highsec but not good enough to go into 00 yet - also, as a newb pvper I found myself quite poor from all the dying - being sec statused out from cheap market hubs (eg jita, 0.9sec) made it even harder.

some kind of anti-blob measures need to be invented - it reaches a point where there is no strategy/tactics at all, just 'everyone attack now'.

Also it's way too hard for corps/alliances to grow into 00 when they're small.

I think the biggest mistake was wasting so much time and money on captains quarters/etc.. sure lots of people want walking in stations, BUT, eve had a niche - a system that provided enough for people to enjoy, and get lost in - they're trying to occupy multiple gametypes now - overstretched - which has diluted development.

Sorry for the vagueish response, tired...

Of course, CCP have proven they will not listen to players, so why are we still bothering?

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:44:00 - [5]
 

EVE DOES makes money for CCP.

Then "Dust" and "Metrosexual Vampire Parade Online" spend that money.

Mindseamstress
Gallente
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:45:00 - [6]
 

My idea would be very simple.

IMO one of the best expansions was the W-space one.

Why not just expand 0.0 drastically? Say 10k new systems and open up Jove space. I would have preferred that many times over to Incarna. Also with loads more players, maybe CCP would have the means for doing a proper Incarna next time.


Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:48:00 - [7]
 

a conservative estimate of annual revenue from subscriptions on 350k people is over $52.5 Million... and as long as they keep growing the account numbers its a nice solid predictable bankable sum of money... whereas MT is irregular and unreliable...

They want more money, listen to their customers, build the game slowly and surely, and steadily gain more subscribers...

I thought Incarna would help a lot with that by improving immersion, and attracting new players....

then I saw it...

It will not do the job if all it is is a window box for MT sales.

Aireloteiwen
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:49:00 - [8]
 

Had they said - this is a roadmap for the future, this is what we're planning on releasing when, and kept far more in touch with the community regarding changes, then most people probably wouldn't be too hurt about an increase in subs.

At least its an honest - we're not making enough money to support the company, but we're willing to offer this in exchange for higher subs - rather than "oh, look at this shiny new feature... by the way we're planning on making it integral to gameplay so you _have_ to buy things to stay competitive.

Chomondeley
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:49:00 - [9]
 

In other news.... I hear the Greek Finance Minister is looking to dump the Euro and buy Aurum ....Oh Wait!

Captain Futur3
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:50:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 25/06/2011 14:51:07
Dont you guys see that CCP DOES NOT SPEND THE MONEY ON EVE ANYMORE???

I bet the costs for Eve and their expansions can be paid by a monthly fee of maybe 1 dollar or less per account.
All the rest is going into Dust and World in Darkness. So dont post such stupidity please.

Svetlana Medvedeva
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:56:00 - [11]
 

Geez, it's not about the community or playerbase. It's all about quick cash for f*gvampireonline and fps videogames.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:57:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
EVE DOES makes money for CCP.

Then "Dust" and "Metrosexual Vampire Parade Online" spend that money.


^this

Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:58:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Captain Futur3
Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 25/06/2011 14:51:07
Dont you guys see that CCP DOES NOT SPEND THE MONEY ON EVE ANYMORE???

I bet the costs for Eve and their expansions can be paid by a monthly fee of maybe 1 dollar or less per account.
All the rest is going into Dust and World in Darkness. So dont post such stupidity please.


Quoted for truth...but eve costs a bit more because of GMs and answering petitions.

Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
EVE DOES makes money for CCP.

Then "Dust" and "Metrosexual Vampire Parade Online" spend that money.


Yup, this.

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:12:00 - [15]
 

Simple ways CCP can make more money from EVE -

Fix performance, make the UI more user-friendly - I can't convince friends to subscribe to "spreadsheets in space"

Raise subscriptions slightly ($1 USD) - not wallet-breaking for most

Make PLEX expire after a few months - use it or lose it, lowers CCP's liability for unredeemed game time (accounting issue)

If they have to use RMT -

NEX - Sell vanity items only - nothing game changing, but maybe build on station life, have socially oriented products and services for AUR (bars, lounges, storefronts, secret meeting spots, virtual sports/shooting arena, etc.)

NEX - Sell anything, even game-affecting things, via BPO - all you buy for Aurum is a schematic, you still have to build it with in-game minerals and sell it on the in-game market, so it is part of the regular economy

New - Sell passes (time-limited) which grant corporations access to new regions of nullsec space - challenge them to build a sovereignty foothold within a certain time frame, if they do it and maintain it they don't have to pay to access the region.

Raven God
Texas Inc.
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:13:00 - [16]
 

They're rolling in 4.5 million a month.

And you think they dont make a profit? wahahhaa

Aessaya
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:16:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Aessaya on 25/06/2011 15:15:53
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7890/notomtinevecow.jpg

ninja edit: fixed linkz0r

Amoes Sten
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:18:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Mindseamstress
Edited by: Mindseamstress on 25/06/2011 14:28:36
Regardless how much I hate this new expansion (and yes I really think it's rubbish), I do love Eve and wanted to make the point that if this game is to expand, then CCP does need to make a decent amount of money. Good developers are very expensive I am sure, as is probably the hardware needed to run this thing. Not to mention that I also think CCP should be well rewarded financially for what they have created over the past 10 years.

I have no idea what CCP's financials look like, what their budget is, nor what their business plan is for the next few years. What I do know is that RTM is very unlikely to have a positive financial impact given the feedback to date. I also think CCP should finally recognize this by now...

There needs to be a way though for this game to either gain a lot more critical mass or alternatively for players to be willing to pay higher sub fees. Incarna as presented in this last expansion doesn't quite seem to be the way forward, so any ideas what would be? How can CCP get say, 1m subs within 3-5 years?

This thread is really to see if there are any good ideas out there. I am sure CCP will appreciate some constructive feedback (although I must say they haven't been very constructive so far on their end).

Any ideas?




Frankly, lol.

CCP makes millions of dollars in profit off this game. The new "micro" transactions are designed to increase that profit. Please abandon this bizarre idea that CCP needs more money to develop expansions. If this were true, then why didn't CCP say something to this effect before or even after the expansion?

Their official line as stated by CCP Zulu is still that aurum is here for good. I have no idea what their current position is though. No-one else on these forums does either. Frankly, I doubt even CCP knows their own position any more.

After all that has been leaked to the public the CQ's seem a lot like a cheap excuse to milk the golden geese through aurum.

Mindseamstress
Gallente
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:21:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Raven God
They're rolling in 4.5 million a month.

And you think they dont make a profit? wahahhaa


I don't know. Have no idea what their costs are Surprised

Zarah Jade
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:30:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Zarah Jade on 25/06/2011 15:35:23
Edited by: Zarah Jade on 25/06/2011 15:33:10
my tinfoil hat opinion...dont live outside your means.

here's what i think is going on but i'm not sure they really want or need our advice.

i get the feeling ccp bit off more than they could chew and got in a financial bind with dust and this vampire thing.

unfortunately the days of level headed, longterm financial goals and rewards have been replaced, by these younger "i want it all now" attitudes. and if your company suffers the ungratefull fate of being overseen by a board of directors or financial backers of this same mindset...the pressure to produce profits now can be extreme. certainly enough to persuade otherwise level headed minds to adopts more drastic policies.

explained in english...i think eve was on a stable, sure and steady profit course with the way eve (subscription base) was being run. out came regular, timed, meaningfull expansions. i think the owners / developers, with very good intentions decided to expand EvE in new exciting ways (dust, Captains Quarters which i still think are awesome ideas), needed to raise capitol to produce it, overspent or underestimated the cost to produce this, needed more capitol (there can be a vicious exchange when you raise capitol. you can loose leverage (unilateral decision making)in an equal exchange rate, or worse) raised it from outside sources, lost alot of leverage in the sense, like a contracted rockstar...they were now under the gun and expected to produce profit or repayment of invested funds. dont underestimate the pressure this situation can produce on people in the lead (owners of eve), it can lead a man to make hasty and irrational decisions regarding finances. so anywys...fast foreward a bit and here we are. stuck in this mess.

i'm not saying this is EvE's fate but it sure smells like it. if so i'm not sure theres really anything they can do until they raise enough capitol to regain their leverage, if thats truly their desire? its anyones guess why we are in this mess but this is where my money is. unfortunately if so...the outcome is not so good for the foreseable future.

i will refrain from offering actual advice because the owners / devs are probably alot smarter than me and already know all this. if this is not eve's fate then they are on a decisive and sure path that they beleive in wholeheartidly (MT's) and theres little we can do to offer in the way of advice because its not really wanted or meaningfull. all we can really do is voice our opinion and play on or vote our dislike by un-subbing.

for the record...i would have been willing to pay an additional $5 or hell...maybe even $10 a month to keep game changing MT's out. but we still havn't seen it all implemented yet so maybe theres hope...

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:36:00 - [21]
 

EVE *DOES* make money for CCP. So much in fact, that it can fund 3 games at once!

oh wait... apparently not. I guess they needed to extract MORE money from us to fund the other 2 games since they clearly couldn't rely on DUST514 to bring much in.

Becka Call
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:54:00 - [22]
 

CCP has been working on WoD since they merged with White Wof in November 2006. The game is still vaporware. Nearly 5 years and nothing to show for it. They're screwed. It will never release successfully. This really seems to be CCP acting like their in financial trouble; they're cooking the golden goose and throwing good money after bad.

So where does that leave everything? With the MT market they created they will never make enough money to cover its investment, let alone help their financial issues. Even if the subscriber base stays and just doesn't buy any Nex items, they're going to go bankrupt.

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:59:00 - [23]
 

Let's say I find it quite remarkable that CCP could easily make profit from EVE when it had 50k subscribers but now they don't get enough from 270k accounts .. ?

QuestionQuestionQuestion

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:00:00 - [24]
 

It's crap, this is. Dust will tank the moment the next CoD or BF shows up (~3 months after release, at most). WoD is more of a niche than EVE is. Or they do put out on the main MMO market, in which case it'll get murdered faster than you can Blizzard.

It's just a sad thing this once great game has turned into yet another example of uncontrolled company growth, mismanagement and cash grabbing executives.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:09:00 - [25]
 

Basically I look at it differently.

It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.

CCP has overreached, EVE makes more than enough money to pay for itself, allow expansions for itself and to promote a modest path towards developing another product.

The problem is CCP wasn't satisfied with one other product. They took on White Wolf. Then started developing DUST and World of Darkness, both of which are good products but they didn't have the revenue source to keep it going. White Wolf like CCP prior to the merger was a niche corp. I assume it has enough revenue to maintain its pen and paper games but probably not enough revenue to fund the development of any online game. White Wolf might even be losing money I don't know.

I'm not as much in the know of the current RPG market as perhaps 10 years ago.

The best business model would be for now to table the World of Darkness Online, it is no where near ready. Continue to develop DUST and make a significant winter expansion to EVE. After DUST is released funnel that money back into maintaining it and into development of WoD as well as revenue from EVE (to maintain itself and switch from funding DUST research to WoD research).

They've just been trying to go to fast for what they are ready for is all.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:17:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
The problem is CCP wasn't satisfied with one other product.


Never be. Business 101.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:31:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris
Originally by: El'Niaga
The problem is CCP wasn't satisfied with one other product.


Never be. Business 101.


That's fine when you can afford it but they can't. I mean they pay about a quarter less than the industry standard. Have a high turnover probably due to the pay. Hard to get a solid project that way. Consolidating and delaying WoD could give them the leeway to increase pay for remaining members, give bonuses and work towards a better and stronger corp.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:31:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris
Originally by: El'Niaga
The problem is CCP wasn't satisfied with one other product.


Never be. Business 101.


A leveraged business can be lost with one misstep.

Business 102

Amoes Sten
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:35:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Basically I look at it differently.

It's not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem.

CCP has overreached, EVE makes more than enough money to pay for itself, allow expansions for itself and to promote a modest path towards developing another product.

The problem is CCP wasn't satisfied with one other product. They took on White Wolf. Then started developing DUST and World of Darkness, both of which are good products but they didn't have the revenue source to keep it going. White Wolf like CCP prior to the merger was a niche corp. I assume it has enough revenue to maintain its pen and paper games but probably not enough revenue to fund the development of any online game. White Wolf might even be losing money I don't know.

I'm not as much in the know of the current RPG market as perhaps 10 years ago.

The best business model would be for now to table the World of Darkness Online, it is no where near ready. Continue to develop DUST and make a significant winter expansion to EVE. After DUST is released funnel that money back into maintaining it and into development of WoD as well as revenue from EVE (to maintain itself and switch from funding DUST research to WoD research).

They've just been trying to go to fast for what they are ready for is all.


Interesting point. Is this all conjecture or is there evidence anywhere backing these claims up? I only ask because it would answer a lot of questions.

ed jeni
SKULLDOGS
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:45:00 - [30]
 

evidence as requested

Quote:
Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago.


source
Linkage


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