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blankseplocked MT will make for a stronger Eve?
 
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Vawd
Caldari
Tax Evasion Ltd
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:54:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Myfanwy Heimdal

Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit.


I hate progressive scum. Change is NOT good, apparently you don't pay attention to real life, which is why you want to spend your paycheck on a video game.

Shenra Twrin
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:56:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Shenra Twrin on 25/06/2011 13:58:40
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not.


yeah so ? they may lose 390k $ trough subscriptions but geht like 500k for MTīs ....


Originally by: Vawd

blablabla, which is why you want to spend your paycheck on a video game.


why somepeople spend thier paycheck for golfing or trips in other countrys ? right they have fun soooo dont see anyproblem here u dont need to buy in Aurum shop if u dont want ....all people are like omg NOW U NEED TO PAY IN THIS SHOP

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:57:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Having explained this numerous times, you get a quote from another thread,

Originally by: Adunh Slavy

Micro-transaction items require virtually no input from the sandbox to create. For example, a ship magically created removes all the potential game play that the production of that ship would have required from the sandbox.

This removal of game play, of value, is taken from the noob miner to the 0.0 miner, to the can flipper to the hot dropper and his 23 SuperCap friends out on a Sunday afternoon drive. Each micro-transaction created item takes a tiny bit from everyone, as more and more MT items are created, those tiny bits add up until the sandbox has no meaning.

Purely cosmetic vanity items, although they could have an impact on certain aspects of the sandbox, they have a far less value at a mechanical level, and thus, have far less mechanical impact on the sandbox.

Although some argue PLEX is a micro-transaction, this is demonstrably false. The ISK for which that PLEX is sold, was collected by someone in the game doing whatever it is they do. Thy put forth an effort and got a reward of ISK. They then trade that ISK for a PLEX. The guy who sold the PLEX now has the ISK, and the other guy has the PLEX. Nothing was added or removed from the sandbox, except the need for one or both of them to break the EULA. CCP profits and the players profit from PLEX.

The only ones who profit from MTs are CCP, and they do so not only at the expense of the $Cash spender, but of everyone in the game that now no longer has the opportunity to participate in the creation of the MT created items.

MTs are theft.



Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe?

If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market.

I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market.

Crispin McTarmac
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:57:00 - [34]
 

It boils down to this. If you want performance-based MT to be an efective way of making money, you have to make the game such that it isn't fun if you don't real-money-buy anything. It becomes very difficult to judge how much playing the game "as intended" will cost, and if your customer doesn't know how much your product will cost it becomes difficult for them to give you money. Rule number 1 of business: make it easy for people to give you money.

That being said, buying gameplay features like fitting storage or interface improvements is great and I don't know why people are opposed to this particular faucet.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:58:00 - [35]
 

Losing players is both your loss as a sandbox participant and also a financial and reputation loss for CCP. Players create far more content for this game than CCP ever did. Ragers are angry and offensive and you are being angry and defensive. You are not one ounce more mature than these other people you try so hard to insult. Laughing

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:59:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Shenra Twrin
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not.


yeah so ? they may lose 390k $ trough subscriptions but geht like 500k for MTīs ....



And that's why people are ****ed. $500K of MT game chaning stuff is a removeal of $500K of game play from the sand box. If it's just silly hats and pants, it may impact the price of PLEX somewhat, but that will recover over time as marketforces of marginal utility and substitution kick in.

Murev Vorchilde
Caldari
End Game.
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:02:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Acac Sunflyier
With the over quarter million dollars in subscription losses so far, I think not.


Of course your assuming that these players who quit

a) Pay real cash to play.




Laughing

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
You really are a sad person. IF your twisted mind can compare MT and my opinon with a **** then I really do hope you quit the game and get some help as I figure you need it. Real word is about change, Eve has to evolve as we did from the apes, with the possible exception of your good self.

I am not sad. I am laughing at your ignorance. You called me a kid, you gave me suggestions like I was asking for help. MT is also not your topic any longer, but you made me your new topic. If anything then your posting mentality is sad.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:05:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe?

If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market.

I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market.


What is this fear of change thing that has you so smug and blinded? It's a silly argument and does you no favors. It appears to be your attempt to personalize every argument. You do not want to play the Saul Alinksy game with me. You will loose.

If they create a BPC, that steals from the sandbox. No one had to buy the BPO and research it, put up a POS or take the time to make the copies, mine the ICE to run that POS, do the PI to build that POS, do the PI to make the fuel to feed that POS, kill the rats to get the ISK to buy the BPO, mine the mins to make the ammo to kill the rats.

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:09:00 - [40]
 

Reasonable priced MT items that are VANITY ONLY will make the game stronger because it will add a new constant line of income for CCP. This should be fine.
5 dollars for a monocle is reasonable, 80 dollars isn't.

What will not benefit EVE is adding MT items to the store that will effect the game (as in: implants, rare ships, faction standings) THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE!

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:11:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Losing players is both your loss as a sandbox participant and also a financial and reputation loss for CCP. Players create far more content for this game than CCP ever did. Ragers are angry and offensive and you are being angry and defensive. You are not one ounce more mature than these other people you try so hard to insult. Laughing


Players come and go and all games need new players to come in to refresh those that leave. Same happens in football teams, companies, politics etc. The problem we face is that the new generation demand differnt things and as such the game has to change and we either accept those changes and adapt or resign and move to a different team or company. Some of the old fools in this game want to remain the powerforce they are.

Look at the CSM, same alliance puppets since day 1. Differnt faces maybe but still their own interests at heart. Would you trust them to move an organisation forward with the limited self centred agenda and block votes from their lemming members?

Look at the 0.0 space. Same old crap, same old leaders, funded by RMT, Bots, slaves and egos.

Look at the economy. Controlled by the very same alliances who supply the moon goo, high end minerals, salvage and officer mods. To fund RMT and their own egos.

MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:12:00 - [42]
 

MT on game-play items in Eve will turn Eve into WoT in space - shallow kill'em all arcade but WoT is free to play FYI. Eve still costs $15 per month.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:14:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place.



Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it.

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:26:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Dibble Dabble

Its a nice quote but based on what, your fear of change maybe?

If CCP are to magically create vanity items that dont affect game play then it has minimal impact on the market.

I hope CCP will be sensible and rather than create an item out of thin air they create a blueprint for that item where that item has an impact on game play be it a mod, an implant, a ship or ammo. By creating the BPC they then feed the market.


What is this fear of change thing that has you so smug and blinded? It's a silly argument and does you no favors. It appears to be your attempt to personalize every argument. You do not want to play the Saul Alinksy game with me. You will loose.

If they create a BPC, that steals from the sandbox. No one had to buy the BPO and research it, put up a POS or take the time to make the copies, mine the ICE to run that POS, do the PI to build that POS, do the PI to make the fuel to feed that POS, kill the rats to get the ISK to buy the BPO, mine the mins to make the ammo to kill the rats.


I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again.

Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum.

To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market.

Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar.

You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it.

Simples.

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Dibble Dabble

MT offers a break from this and with some luck will weaken the RMT and Bot Alliances and make Eve a better place.



Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it.


I dont know how it will impact on the game. CCP have not been so kind as to let me into their plans. Its obvious that the same applies to you and yet your so worried by something that may happen.

So neither of us can prove our assertions can we? You can blindly panic about some possible change that you percive will have a negative impact on your game. If you go through life worring about what might happen then I pity you.

Should the worst happen then we can quit. Remember this is not real life, computer have off buttons and they are a fail safe. Off buttons are their for a reason, me thinks you should learn how to use it.

Alaric T'Sun
Minmatar
Aphelion T'Sun
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:35:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

blah ...

There are many out there that will migrate to Eve if they could use their own wealth to give them a helping hand. MT is only an extension of the plex system.

... blah ...

A new generation of players will join eve that will give it a lift it deserves. So what if they can afford more, real life is just like that, its what they call a sandbox, anything can happen.

... blah



This is the exact same thought process that SOE went through with Galaxies.

You can't presume that changing your business model will bring in new business, especially in a market like MMOs.

There is a core group of people that are loyal to your business. The larger this core, the more rotating customers they bring in. For example, you're driving through Kansas and you get hungry. One restaurant, Lefties, with 10 kansas trucks outside. On the other side a restaurant called, Righties, with 1 kansas truck and nine trucks from other states. Where would you stop?

Quebber
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:39:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Quebber on 25/06/2011 14:45:06
Having played eve in various chars for the last 5 years, enjoyed everything from pve to pvp, been part of some great corps and alliances, fought in many huge battles.

My time on eve is valuable to me, buying on average 2 gtc's a week because if I want to pvp or set up sov or anything else I don't need to grind or want too.

My time is worth more than the cost of gtc, I have been gaming since muds and before that old tec on bbs's, now 20 years later life is good for me.

The time I could spend making money in game I instead walk the dog, make food, bake, watch films and most importantly when in eve I do not haveto live by the isk per hour rule.

If I want to grab a moros to shoot friends for giggles with dread gurista ammo I damn well will do it.

If war happens or friends need my help 40-60 pvp ships will be bought.

MT will not change EVE any more than GTC's did.

Incarna is fun, no one I spend time with in eve atm sees it as a bad thing and between us that is about 30 accounts not leaving, not running people who still have confidence in ccp.

Fly safe people remember this is CCP's game always has been just like every mmo out there, we play in there world, ccp is better than most, I think people forget that there own self important ego doesn't exist beyond there own mind.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:44:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again.

Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum.

To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market.

Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar.

You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it.

Simples.


And that what you describe no one has a problem with. *That* is vanity, so long as "bling ishtar" is functionaly no different from a normal one, and all the inputs, ALL of them, were exactly the same, then fine, great, no one is overly concerned.


Prince Kobol
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:48:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Prince Kobol
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Whitehound
What happens within the EVE universe is our - the players' - own business. This is what you have to face with.

If we now have to face players, who invest Ģ150 per month into EVE, then it is not a game any more, but has become a serious business.




Your wrong, this is CCP's game not ours. Its grown since so much in 6 years and needs to grow more. People have been funding their game via plex for years. The hard core honest meta gamers who just PVP are happy to blow a days wage or an hours wage to fund their fun.

CCP is a commercial operation, its designed to make money and it has to evolve.




yes it is CCP Games, Yes CCp is a commercial operation and yes they are design to make money.

Just one problem.

How does a Company make money without customers?


I think it wants new customers as with people like you on board eve will stagnate and die. You really should embrace the future and move with the times. Adapt and move forward. Or quit.


ROFL... you know nothing about me...

However I will help try and understand my position without any insults :)

I have said in a number of threads that I am not against MT, in fact I am actually in favour of them. As a Lotro Lifer I have seen the how having a cash store to generate extra income can help in the development of a MMO.

What I am against is the introduction of non-vanity items for cash.

The argument over PLEX has been done to death and I am not going to start it again here.

If you do not understand how introducing non-vanity for cash in a MT store would be bad then you have no idea how Eve works.

Also in regards to getting new players, being able to buy items for cash will not work with Eve.

The negative effect of cash stores is that it encourages short term players, not those who are willing to invest time and effort.

These kind of players like to hit max level asap, run end game content and then move on to the next F2P MMO


Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:50:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 14:51:41
Originally by: Whitehound
EVE is still just a game. Keep the real money out of it, and keep vanity out of it as well.

Too late. RL money already got in it with the introduction of PLEX.
Originally by: Crispin McTarmac
It boils down to this. If you want performance-based MT to be an efective way of making money, you have to make the game such that it isn't fun if you don't real-money-buy anything.

Well if you have a lot of ISK and can fly big ships it's also because you payed years of subscription which is also power for RL cash.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:53:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy

Ok, demonstrably prove your assertion, let's have it.



Originally by: Dibble Dabble

I dont know how it will impact on the game. CCP have not been so kind as to let me into their plans. Its obvious that the same applies to you and yet your so worried by something that may happen.



Well if you don't know, then perhaps you should stop tossing around things you can not prove and instead looking for excuses to toss out some "change is good" crap you picked up from the TV.


Originally by: Dibble Dabble

So neither of us can prove our assertions can we? You can blindly panic about some possible change that you percive will have a negative impact on your game. If you go through life worring about what might happen then I pity you.



I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms.

As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:57:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Dibble Dabble

I guess you need to read your Janet and John books again.

Ship BPC a blinged Ishtar. You buy it from the shop for Aurum.

To build you need a T2 Ishtar and some other crap from the market.

Hence the cycle is maintained. T1 / T2 / Invention / Mining / POS all still needed by the market / players to provide before the player can get his Blinged Ishtar.

You could convert your ISK to Plex to Aurum. Buy the BPC, Make the Ship. Sell it.

Simples.


And that what you describe no one has a problem with. *That* is vanity, so long as "bling ishtar" is functionaly no different from a normal one, and all the inputs, ALL of them, were exactly the same, then fine, great, no one is overly concerned.




Agree. Totally.

If nothing is magically created then there's no problem. In the above scenario the stuff has to be made by players, hauled to this Pimp My Ishtar workshop, hand over some stuff and then, lo, nothing is created.

Now, this is fine and no-one complaning against RMT is against this.

If the new Ishtar was better then the old Ishtar then something has to be destroyed to make it so.

Quebber
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:57:00 - [53]
 

Even though I buy gtcs it does not make me a better pvper, even if I could buy a titan from the aurum store or some super T3 sexeh beast, if I don't know how to fly it then all I do is make another pvpers day.

MT or GTC does not make eve unbalanced, it just makes my day if I shoot some idiot in a ship or jeans he got from the store :P

Myfanwy Heimdal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:03:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

I suggest you read the actual CCP Blog that was leaked rather than pick the soundbites and juicy bits. Reading the whole blog will tell you a lot more than simply reading the headlines and panic led crap thats come out.

But maybe thats too much to ask.

Change is good and Eve needs to change. Dont like it then quit.


I think that it would be fair to state that you don't know what I have nor what I haven't read. So you can lay off the implied insults. And, no you don't need to ask as it's already been done.

Change is good? Is it always? Some is, some isn't. And, yes, if I don't like it then I will certainly quit.

Lilith Mrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:13:00 - [55]
 

best troll thread ever
and godwins law was invoked on the first page
awesome
all this talk about MT is based around assumptions
if its just bling or **** that doesnt touch the market in any way its good, if its pay to win korea grinder bull**** its bad, we dont know this yet
many people are unsubbing and quitting to wait this out and see how it evolves, if the MTs turn out to be just idiots spending money on something that no one needs and doesnt hurt anyone, people will return, if MT turns out you can get 6mil sp in 2 weeks, get faction standings to 8.0 instantly and have items created out of thin air, then they wont come back and more people will gtfo

Arguing all these posts about stuff only made around assumptions and personal beliefs is not really contributing to anything.
If you believe in CCP to make this good, or if you dont have a problem paying MTs just stay and play, if you're thinking it will turn out worse or if you think CCP will **** up then unsub, wait and see.

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:14:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy


I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms.

As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast.


Bull****. You only think you can prove something but you have no evidence to back it up. You base your "proof" on soundbites, fear, assumption and speculation.

When CCP have something to tell us then I am sure they will. Eve is changing and you either adapt or move on.

sniperNZSAS
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:58:00 - [57]
 

Tall poppy syndrome. Nothing more. Dibble Dabble seems less of a representative for MT and more a rep for butt hurt nublets who cannot be bothered spending time grinding up skill sets and gaming skill.

Your view that change is always good, regarding both in game and real world, is incredibly ignorant and you are in dire need of a history lesson.

Players become dull in every game they play. Its simply a matter of time. If anything, MT will only shorten the lifespan of eve players. The only reason I have played this game for 2 years is because of the skill grind and constantly looking forward to the next step. If I could simply get as far as I could by trading in a plex, I would have played around in a titan for a few days and then quit eve.

You are also assuming that everyone has the expendable income to waste on MT. I myself am a student. I work hard to grind my isk to buy my plex's, and am please that with isk, I am in reach of every aspect of this game. If MT reached the level to which I was excluded from performance enhancing items, I would promptly give up playing.

The only up side MT would bring for me is; nub joins eve. nub, realising the grind he is in for, spends large quantities of money to buy skillpoints/ships. nub fits officer/MT performance items to a faction battleship. Nub flies out to 0.0 to begin shooting those cool red X's in the belts. nub ends up in my killmails. nub quits eve leaving behind large quantities of tears. (although this already goes on to a small extent, an MT would inevitably increase the frequency).

Thats about all I can say on the matter.

oh, btw Dibble, whether a pilot who has quit eve payed for his subs using $ or isk, its still a sub loss. whether I pay for my sub or use a plex, ccp has still made $ off someone. one less plex sold to me is one less plex someone is going to need to buy from ccp.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:06:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 16:06:41
Originally by: sniperNZSAS
Players become dull in every game they play. Its simply a matter of time. If anything, MT will only shorten the lifespan of eve players. The only reason I have played this game for 2 years is because of the skill grind and constantly looking forward to the next step. If I could simply get as far as I could by trading in a plex, I would have played around in a titan for a few days and then quit eve.

But is that neccessarily bad? Look at guildwars, people didn't stay very long on average but they had many millions of people playing it. They made a huge profit for NCSoft even if it wasn't pay to pay and only had a few MT items.

Quote:
You are also assuming that everyone has the expendable income to waste on MT. I myself am a student. I work hard to grind my isk to buy my plex's, and am please that with isk, I am in reach of every aspect of this game. If MT reached the level to which I was excluded from performance enhancing items, I would promptly give up playing.

In time, you're able to get anything. After all you are the one advertising patience. If you don't mind waiting for 3 years to fly a supercap, why mind waiting for a year to buy a MT item? If you wait long enough you may have finished your study and have a job that may easily afford you a few extra plex a month!

Quote:
oh, btw Dibble, whether a pilot who has quit eve payed for his subs using $ or isk, its still a sub loss. whether I pay for my sub or use a plex, ccp has still made $ off someone. one less plex sold to me is one less plex someone is going to need to buy from ccp.

True. They rather have people spending plex on AUR MT items than gametime I guess.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:20:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Adunh Slavy


I can prove my assertion and I have been doing so for months in lots of threads. Hundreds of other people can also prove it, and that's why so many people are up in arms.

As for your personal comments, your childish red herrings, you're loosing credibility fast.


Bull****. You only think you can prove something but you have no evidence to back it up. You base your "proof" on soundbites, fear, assumption and speculation.

When CCP have something to tell us then I am sure they will. Eve is changing and you either adapt or move on.



You your self demonstrated an MT transaction that preserves the sandbox in post number 44. You are screaming at your own brick wall. Wake up.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:30:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 16:36:48
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Too late. RL money already got in it with the introduction of PLEX.

If you want nit-picking ... subscriptions cost money, too.

The point of the PLEX was however to get control over the goldsellers. In return did we get play-for-free. This was an acceptable deal for us. It still is however just the lesser of two evils and only the play-for-free is seen as an improvement.

So now CCP wants to stretch it out and this goes beyond what we want. New items, even vanity items, can all be fun if they are made part of the actual play. Take the exotic dancers for example. A useless item on its own just like the monocles, but it is part of some missions and occasionally drops as loot, which makes it good fun. The value of the exotic dancers is then defined only by the players and by nobody else. Now we get the Noble Exchange, where we can buy useless stuff for either real money or tons of ISKs, and without having any meaning to the play ...

It does however seem as if they really mean it and that they want players not just to subscribe to their game and play it, but they also want us to spend extra money on useless crap and walk around with it. And this is what I have been paying for with my subscription now?


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