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Tank CEO
Caldari
Dark Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:38:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Tank CEO on 25/06/2011 06:08:12
Edited by: Tank CEO on 25/06/2011 05:58:03
I want a big fat brand that says "SELL OUT" on people/characters that use AUR to purchase any type of progression such as skill points, standings, sovereignty, attributes, ect, and functionality such as AUR ships, weapons, ammo, ect.. so I can discriminate and go blow the **** outa them, grief them, and laugh at them as they lose real currency. If they are a functionality sell out, I want it on their ships. If they are a progression sell out, I want it on their character avatar.

I really hope your not stupid CCP, and I hope you reassure us that you will only use AUR for vanity items. Promises and assurance you will never use real life currency for exchange on non-vanity items, and that you will never ever bring to the table such discussions again.

Sell all the clothes you want, all the vanity items you want (There needs to be a balance though man, you have to still make content for us players who don't use AUR), I don't care, but don't bring it to the non-vanity items such as functionality and progression such as the things I listed above. B




Edit* Since a person asked, I am o.k. with PLEX and game time cards for isk. However, I have never bought PLEX with real currency and sold for isk. I find it to be a good, acceptable feature. I personally don't believe in spending real currency on anything other than a monthly subscription. I find it also to be unavoidable anywas, and by CCP supporting this, it competes with the companies that abuse chinese people with sweat shops.

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:39:00 - [2]
 

+1

xynix
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:39:00 - [3]
 

It will come, Zulu and Hilmar have not denied it, and thats the biggest proof right there. It might take a year or two to be implemented. But it will come...sadly

WhiskeyGirl
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:40:00 - [4]
 

i agree, ive been playing since mid 08' and all that time training i only have 43milSP and if people can get that in 1 day because they have MORE money than me, im going.. i dont know i already unsubbed so, is it normal for me to be crying?

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:40:00 - [5]
 

You have my rifter!

XIRUSPHERE
Gallente
Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:44:00 - [6]
 

Watch community leave to critical levels.

CCP implements T3 DCU and goes FTP with mechanic breaking MT to try to stay afloat.

Return to a sea of clueless tards several months later with plenty of SP and no skill.

Bathe in the blood and lamentations of noobs who are much more prone to rage quit when you blew up $200 of their stuff.



Savion Chastis
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:48:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Watch community leave to critical levels.

CCP implements T3 DCU and goes FTP with mechanic breaking MT to try to stay afloat.

Return to a sea of clueless tards several months later with plenty of SP and no skill.

Bathe in the blood and lamentations of noobs who are much more prone to rage quit when you blew up $200 of their stuff.





You almost gave me a reason to come back ... nah **** that ...

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:48:00 - [8]
 

Does this include people who spend a PLEX to buy +5 implants or a faction battleship from the market?

(this is just a little clarification I think the mob needs to make in its position)

Harelip Jenkins
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Watch community leave to critical levels.

CCP implements T3 DCU and goes FTP with mechanic breaking MT to try to stay afloat.

Return to a sea of clueless tards several months later with plenty of SP and no skill.

Bathe in the blood and lamentations of noobs who are much more prone to rage quit when you blew up $200 of their stuff.


i guess the only solution CCP will have to protect the new MT model in that case would be to remove the "death penalty.". Can't let the cash cow disappear because of those annoying foundational game mechanics.





Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:57:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tank CEO
Edited by: Tank CEO on 25/06/2011 05:39:49
I want a big fat brand that says "SELL OUT" on people/characters that use AUR to purchase any type of progression such as skill points, standings, sovereignty, attributes, ect, and functionality such as AUR ships, weapons, ammo, ect.. so I can discriminate and go blow the **** outa them, grief them, and laugh at them as they lose real currency. If they are a functionality sell out, I want it on their ships. If they are a progression sell out, I want it on their character avatar.

I really hope your not stupid CCP, and I hope you reassure us that you will only use AUR for vanity items. Promises and assurance you will never use real life currency for exchange on non-vanity items, and that you will never ever bring to the table such discussions again.

Sell all the clothes you want, all the vanity items you want, I don't care, but don't bring it to the non-vanity items such as functionality and progression such as the things I listed above.


You do know that the cash for SP plan was why T'Amber quit CSM and Eve, right? I'm not sure if you were in those threads or not, and I'm too burned out to search atm.

CCP can't afford to put a brand on purchased progression - it would inhibit the desire to purchase progression. Likely, that's why they removed visibility of standings as well, so purchased faction standings can be secret.

Doom Bang
Gonzo.
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Maplestone
Does this include people who spend a PLEX to buy +5 implants or a faction battleship from the market?

(this is just a little clarification I think the mob needs to make in its position)


You can still buy those items normally, it just takes time to grind the isk. Time is what CCP is selling.

Virtue Maulerant
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:01:00 - [12]
 

They WILL do it.


And people should stop saying it's vanity items so I don't care. Be a god damn smart consumer, you are paying a subscription fee and you should be getting the full content of this game. Premium services and DLC are a ****ing blight.

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:02:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Maplestone
Does this include people who spend a PLEX to buy +5 implants or a faction battleship from the market?

(this is just a little clarification I think the mob needs to make in its position)


PLEX sales do not create anything new - just enable players to exchange something they'd have to pay for anyway (subs) with other players for ISK in a secure way - I think actually a good move on CCP's part, to counter ISK farmers/botters (very unsafe for accounts).

IF they now implement sale of newly spawned items and ships with no basis in the game economy, and sell that for real money, that I think is an issue. It will mean that player-driven industry, including mining, manufacture, marketing, and possibly planetary interaction, will become a fool's game. Success will be driven by how much real money you sink into the game, not by any effort or by taking part in the in-game economy. Endgame, I see EVE becoming a pure PvP playground for the rich and spoiled, and not any fun for me and a good chunk of the current player base. No whine, but I will leave and look for a game with more strategic depth than "Broadcast Target: Lock onto Mom's wallet".

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:05:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Doom Bang
You can still buy those items normally, it just takes time to grind the isk. Time is what CCP is selling.


Could you expand on this a little? What's the difference between selling time codes and selling the products of that time? Does every market actor need to be a player character or can a few NPCs also participate in translating PLEX to products to cut down on server load?


Dultas
Angels Of Death EVE
Mayhem.
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:10:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: BeanBagKing
You have my rifter!


And my Punisher!

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:11:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Maplestone
Does this include people who spend a PLEX to buy +5 implants or a faction battleship from the market?

(this is just a little clarification I think the mob needs to make in its position)


No cause they are buying from the market and from another player. NOT from CCP for real money.

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Vasha Rin
Endgame, I see EVE becoming a pure PvP playground for the rich and spoiled, and not any fun for me and a good chunk of the current player base.


So what you're saying is that you distrust the sort of people who use PLEX to get ahead (by whatever definition of "ahead" is desired), but that you can live with it as long as there is a spinoff of industry gameplay the apreads out across the rest of the player base?

If a monocle was a manufacturable item, but required the same resources as a titan's hull to construct, would it generate 3 months of subscriptions/PLEX for each one the market demanded?

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:25:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Vasha Rin on 25/06/2011 06:43:07
Originally by: Maplestone
Originally by: Doom Bang
You can still buy those items normally, it just takes time to grind the isk. Time is what CCP is selling.


Could you expand on this a little? What's the difference between selling time codes and selling the products of that time? Does every market actor need to be a player character or can a few NPCs also participate in translating PLEX to products to cut down on server load?




I think (perhaps wrongly?) that I speak for a lot of players if I say that the ideal EVE economy is 100% player-driven.

Everything that can reasonably be made by players ought to be made by players, the only things CCP should be seeding through NPC market actors are starter equipment, skill books, and BPOs. Everything else should come from actual gameplay - industry, missions, loot&salvage, research, etc. - and be traded among players. This itself should be all the time sink CCP needs.

Actually if CCP just creates ISK and buys PLEX through NPC market actors, that would be a bad thing. I hope that's not the case now, it will distort the market.

Originally by: Maplestone
Originally by: Vasha Rin
Endgame, I see EVE becoming a pure PvP playground for the rich and spoiled, and not any fun for me and a good chunk of the current player base.


So what you're saying is that you distrust the sort of people who use PLEX to get ahead (by whatever definition of "ahead" is desired), but that you can live with it as long as there is a spinoff of industry gameplay the apreads out across the rest of the player base?

If a monocle was a manufacturable item, but required the same resources as a titan's hull to construct, would it generate 3 months of subscriptions/PLEX for each one the market demanded?


I don't distrust the people who buy or sell PLEX, it seems like a fair compromise given the previous reality of illicit ISK sellers and their negative effect on the game and account security. I do think players should get "ahead" in the game in a way that involves the broader player base somehow(this is an MMO), otherwise EVE is just a very private game between a player and CCP, where the player just pays a subscription plus micro-transactions in exchange for a feeling of power... a single player game.

A monocle SHOULD be a manufacturable item. I don't claim to know the right resources for it to take. However in my view, if CCP HAS to do micro-transactions to grow and survive, they should just sell BPOs of monocles and such, let the players mine the materials, manufacture the product, and sell it to other players. When the wearer is podded, it gets destroyed or looted like any other item(including PLEX).

Players can fight over the resources required to make a monocle, compete to produce it at a good profit margin, try to pirate the ship hauling it to market, loot it from the purchaser's frozen corpse. There is an economic life in that. There is EVE in that.

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:31:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
No cause they are buying from the market and from another player. NOT from CCP for real money.


But how many of those "players" are just alt-farms grinding away, funding themselves on PLEX?

Have we reached a point where the strategic balance of the game is starting to be tipped by the size of of an alliance's PLEX-supported alt-farm? Is this good or bad for the game?

Lady 3'Jane
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:34:00 - [20]
 

maybe this could be the true glue that keeps us all together: killing the monocle wielding bastards.

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 06:57:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Vasha Rin
Everything that can reasonably be made by players ought to be made by players, the only things CCP should be seeding through NPC market actors are starter equipment, skill books, and BPOs. Everything else should come from actual gameplay - industry, missions, loot&salvage, research, etc. - and be traded among players. This itself should be all the time sink CCP needs.


So, if you had a choice between

(1) a store that lets you buy a skillbook directly for 3 PLEX that gives a +2% bonus to some mechanic

(2) spend 3 PLEX to buy ISK from someone farming enough ISK to cover the of the cost of that same skillbook

Number 2 is always prefered?

What if CCP is worried about the growth of PLEX in the game (since that alt farm might be able to supply all the ISK for 3 PLEX using only one PLEX-supported farming account). Those other 2 PLEX sitting in the game are an accounting problem - money they have received for the PLEX for a product (game time) they have not yet dlivered to players. If not handled carefully, I imagine that can be quite a balance sheet trap for a company to set for themselves.

(hmm ... I'm not sure if that ramble really got around to a point)

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:02:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Lady 3'Jane
maybe this could be the true glue that keeps us all together: killing the monocle wielding bastards.


Real money tears?

Mantreh
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:03:00 - [23]
 

I will say I have to agree that it would be a sad day to see ingame effects take place from the use of AUR outside of vanity items, or a link to DUST 514 (I am actually interested in this feature). But I do think it is a bit early to cry wolf on this one yet.

b1zz
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:16:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: b1zz on 25/06/2011 07:17:29
Originally by: Vasha Rin

IF they now implement sale of newly spawned items and ships with no basis in the game economy, and sell that for real money, that I think is an issue. It will mean that player-driven industry, including mining, manufacture, marketing, and possibly planetary interaction, will become a fool's game. Success will be driven by how much real money you sink into the game, not by any effort or by taking part in the in-game economy. Endgame, I see EVE becoming a pure PvP playground for the rich and spoiled, and not any fun for me and a good chunk of the current player base. No whine, but I will leave and look for a game with more strategic depth than "Broadcast Target: Lock onto Mom's wallet".


They are just not going to do this. Player driven markets have been the core idea of this game since inception. The idea that CCP would splinter the Eve market into two separate entities, one player driven, one real-world-money driven, would be equivalent to them deciding to split the Eve universe into isolated shards.

Maybe if they were extremely desparate for funds, or CCP got sold off, I might believe it was possible, but otherwise I would be extremely surprised.

I have no problem with allowing players to real-world-money buy their way into the game, via plex or any other way, as long as player markets are not bi-passed. Some people are money rich but time poor (such as a father with 4 kids and a job for example), and if you're time poor and cannot grind you are practically denied access to Eve altogether because it is such a timesink of a game. More subs, more money to CCP, stronger markets, more PvP targets, stronger corps etc etc etc, everyone's happy - why wouldn't any eve player want that.

Alunis
Gallente
Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:18:00 - [25]
 

As always, Tank.. You're right on target brother..

+1

Twisted Evil

Tank CEO
Caldari
Dark Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:18:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Tank CEO on 25/06/2011 07:21:49
Originally by: Mantreh
I will say I have to agree that it would be a sad day to see ingame effects take place from the use of AUR outside of vanity items, or a link to DUST 514 (I am actually interested in this feature). But I do think it is a bit early to cry wolf on this one yet.


DUST 514 will fail because Battlefield 3 will destroy all FPS games.

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:19:00 - [27]
 

I agree with OP, but isn't it too late? Can't you already buy PLEX, sell them for ISK then buy high SP characters with it?

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:22:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Maplestone on 25/06/2011 07:23:22
Originally by: b1zz
They are just not going to do this. Player driven markets have been the core idea of this game since inception. The idea that CCP would splinter the Eve market into two separate entities, one player driven, one real-world-money driven, would be equivalent to them deciding to split the Eve universe into isolated shards.


But isn't that exactly what the Noble Exchange is? Yes, the items are never-before-seen and vanity only, but they are new items introduced in a way that completely bypasses any pretense of being part of the player economy.

(aside from one rather painful graphic that imagined merchants hoarding them and reselling them)

Tank CEO
Caldari
Dark Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:27:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Falbala
I agree with OP, but isn't it too late? Can't you already buy PLEX, sell them for ISK then buy high SP characters with it?


No. I agree with the functionality of PLEX. Its just ISK. For example, take wow for instance. You have to level a character up. IF CCP proposes AUR for skill points, you would essentially be gaining 'levels'.

Buying characters with isk is o.k. because that character was leveled and took time to be leveled by some one else. Your buying some one elses work with isk, your not buying an item that doesn't exist in the world of eve. Buying skillpoints for example is buying something that will appear out of thin air and applied to your account with no work needed. Its different.

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:27:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Maplestone
Originally by: Vasha Rin
Everything that can reasonably be made by players ought to be made by players, the only things CCP should be seeding through NPC market actors are starter equipment, skill books, and BPOs. Everything else should come from actual gameplay - industry, missions, loot&salvage, research, etc. - and be traded among players. This itself should be all the time sink CCP needs.


So, if you had a choice between

(1) a store that lets you buy a skillbook directly for 3 PLEX that gives a +2% bonus to some mechanic

(2) spend 3 PLEX to buy ISK from someone farming enough ISK to cover the of the cost of that same skillbook

Number 2 is always prefered?

What if CCP is worried about the growth of PLEX in the game (since that alt farm might be able to supply all the ISK for 3 PLEX using only one PLEX-supported farming account). Those other 2 PLEX sitting in the game are an accounting problem - money they have received for the PLEX for a product (game time) they have not yet dlivered to players. If not handled carefully, I imagine that can be quite a balance sheet trap for a company to set for themselves.

(hmm ... I'm not sure if that ramble really got around to a point)



I don't understand the first part of what you said, I'm sorry. I don't get the comparison. What a player does with their time is largely their own concern, I think - if they can legally (no bots) earn enough ISK for 3 PLEX, more power to 'em. However the only thing I think I'd want to buy for 3 PLEX is 3 months of game time... that is really steep.

As for CCP creating too many un-redeemed PLEX I think I agree with you, that is a huge liability! One which CCP should have considered from the start... One easily remedied by making PLEX expire, say 3 months from their purchase date.


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