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blankseplocked When can we expect a proper expansion with real content? [Winter 2013]
 
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Myrdraeus Keaunt
Minmatar
Chaos Delivery Systems
Posted - 2011.07.02 04:00:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?




THIS is why I've just unsubed my accounts. I don't give a **** about monocles. P2W is pretty much here already in the form of PLEX so I don't really give a **** about that either. But the game itself has been getting more and more broken with each "expansion". First time I log in to my account after Incarna and I get killed without even a chance to fight back because my ****ing overview would not work....AGAIN!

On the other hand I have a newb ship in my hangar that supposedly got blown up. I wondered why that dude just warped away without shooting at me...

So yeah...OOOOHHH fancy captains quarters that take forever to load. My character doesn't look at all like it did when I designed her. If I took a screenshot of her in station you would not recognize her from my portrait. But yeah, very fancy quarters. Look very nice. Wow! I'm so impressed! I walked around...yep....cool. Nice work...and I experienced the whole lot of it in 5 minutes.

Where's the ****ing beef?

The thing I think CCP needs to learn, and they had better learn it fast, is that as much as people like a nice looking game...if it looks great but has no content people actually don't give a ****. If it has content but looks like ****, people will pay to play it! EvE has looked dated for a long time but I still played it and still payed to play it. Now it looks all nice and ****...and I just don't care.

Myrdraeus Keaunt
Minmatar
Chaos Delivery Systems
Posted - 2011.07.02 04:09:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: 8agpuss
EvE is a finished product... onto new games now!

Just need to give EvE a few shiney extras to reward all the Vets! Consumerism enhances the gaming experience as we all know!


There's actually a part of me that agrees with this except I'd say that EvE WAS a finished product. If they'd only spent some small amount of time fixing existing bugs the game would still be worth playing. It's all this, "We've got to rewrite everything in Python so it's more testable," along with the, "We've got to give people station walking so we get in the news," that's ruined the game.

The game's content is player created. They really don't need to add a bunch more. Simply fixing what they already built would have been a better choice I think and would have cost significantly less in resources I'm sure. Yet instead of fixing things they break them and then add more broken crap on top.

Sigh....

vasuul
Posted - 2011.07.02 04:30:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: vasuul on 02/07/2011 04:30:32
+1 bump

new missions would be nice too I mean how many times can you save the damsel ,before ya start thinking lock the stupid ***** in a safe so she cant get kidnapped

Or stop the thief I mean geebus after a while you would think they would realize this prick is a security risk and not let em near sensitive documents

Haulin Gneiss
Posted - 2011.07.02 04:46:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Haulin Gneiss on 02/07/2011 04:46:26
how about 7 new factions...this is space and there's go to be more that just the factions we have now. Also I want more ships, more space, and more crazy sheeat to do. How about fighting in a space ring for ISK?

BTW my tengu still flys backwards...after two patches. QUALITY

Syphon Lodian
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:01:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 02/07/2011 05:09:25
I like how some people on the forums like to somehow claim that "Incarna is not wanted by the playerbase", when most of the playerbase has always, and will always, want more Incarna.

Sorry, but that's the truth whether you like it or not. A lot of people are surely disappointed with Incarna so far, but it's because they want to see more of the Incarna we were promised, not less of it.

Not everyone wants to be in a blob-alliance and be someone's by-the-hour slave in a barren 0.0 wasteland. The rest of us are interested in expanding EVE beyond the hopes of "blob games". Can make jokes about it all you want, and say those who want more Incarna are just noobs, or people who shouldn't be playing EVE, people that want to "play with dolls" etc. Most of you will shut-up once you're able to play cards with people in a station club owned by your corp. Not a total loss. I wasn't a fan of Tyrannis and Incursion, myself.

The huge 0.0 blob-alliance metagame really reminds me of the "raid-tier" in other MMOs. Everyone rushes to level cap, literally skipping everything else the game has so they can raid with their super-elite meta guild. Then they do everything the end-tier has to offer, in about a few months, and then have the decency to complain about how the game has nothing to do and no content. EVE metas = Other metas. The kicker is that EVE has a metric-ton of content that will keep you occupied for years. You won't experience this content if all you do is rush into a blob alliance and then complain how everything is boring and moan that T3 ships aren't added every patch.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:07:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Haulin Gneiss
BTW my tengu still flys backwards...after two patches. QUALITY


Clear your cache.

Jiska Ensa
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:10:00 - [97]
 

I remember when everyone was *****ing that they wanted fixes rather than new content.

Now everyone is *****ing they want new content.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore...

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:10:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 02/07/2011 05:12:01

I demand CCP ignore bugs and focus on shinny.
I demand CCP get sick of idiots like me and focus on another product.
I demand Eve is allowed to die off and swapped for WoD.
I demand CCP execute a player purge.
I demand Hilmar look more at what I do then what I say.

This thread is the problem.

I see dumb people, they're everywhere, and they don't even know they're dumb.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:14:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: vasuul
new missions would be nice too I mean how many times can you save the damsel ,before ya start thinking lock the stupid ***** in a safe so she cant get kidnapped


Try a different agent for a while. If you're flying missions for some Caldari agent, try Minmatar or Amarr for a change. You will get a different mix of missions.

There are a bunch of new missions that came along just recently - The Anomoly and Stem The Flow come to mind.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:25:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.


We were forewarned about the lack of meaningful content in Incarna 1.0 (aka "CQ"). CCP had told us well in advance that the first release was going to be CQ in order to buy time to address performance issues, coding issues, design issues, etc. The other CQs and WiS with other people content is due in the next few months - we'll be hearing more about that from CSM/CCP when they release documentation from the emergency summit they just had.

The roadmap that CCP set out in that devblog has pretty much come to pass. The EVE Features team brought us Incursions, the art department brought us turrets, the PvE team brought a few new missions in and we had that "put the ECM in, they take the ECM out" affair with Guristas missions, which no doubt chewed up more of their time than they had budgeted for. Then there's team BFF working on lots of little things, and another team working on time dilation (apologies, I can't remember the team name off the top of my head).

Just because you're not reading the articles that are written to tell you about what the teams have been working on, doesn't mean stuff hasn't been happening.

Ping Pong Wong
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:39:00 - [101]
 

totally agree with OP, 0.0 could be such an intersting place if there was sone mechanics to allow a small but good corp/alliance to be able to own land and not lose sov to blobs who probably will not use that land and defend it with pride and fun as the small gang who from the start cant participate or get a chance to grow without having to join zerg alliances.

i.e a 50man corp attacked by a 5000 people alliance is rediculous, there are plentys of solutions to this yet ccp just release more broken crap thats either worthless in terms of gameplay and ignores fixing/balancing the fun content of the game that is just the spirit of this

Shigeru Potatomoto
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:44:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Shigeru Potatomoto on 02/07/2011 05:44:26
Originally by: Ping Pong Wong
totally agree with OP, 0.0 could be such an intersting place if there was sone mechanics to allow a small but good corp/alliance to be able to own land and not lose sov to blobs who probably will not use that land and defend it with pride and fun as the small gang who from the start cant participate or get a chance to grow without having to join zerg alliances.

i.e a 50man corp attacked by a 5000 people alliance is rediculous, there are plentys of solutions to this yet ccp just release more broken crap thats either worthless in terms of gameplay and ignores fixing/balancing the fun content of the game that is just the spirit of this



Well....they did try to make it easier for smaller corps to grab land by taking out the control towers and introducing upkeep costs. Unfortunately, the meta adapted to this and now you still have the old power blocs, except now 0.0 is more like an apartment complex than an empire.

"500mil isk by the end of the month or I'm kicking you outta the renter's alliance!"

Sorela
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.02 05:48:00 - [103]
 

+1 to OP. This issue seems far more important than MT. MT is going to be irrelevant when there is no content.

Lusulpher
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.02 06:01:00 - [104]
 

My issue is, why would you invite 300,000 violent, conniving strangers to your shared server, challenge them with a sadistic interface, harassing bugs, political assassination, and the threat of bankruptcy and ruination at EVERY MOMENT.

And then turn on them. To milk them of as much money as possible after years of torture and delayed improvement!




It's like beating a hornet's nest with your ****, while on a ladder. Neutral

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.07.02 06:37:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Lusulpher
And then turn on them. To milk them of as much money as possible after years of torture and delayed improvement!



Because the banksters and investors have had it proven to them time and time again that people are morons.


Klytie Ulloriaq
Posted - 2011.07.02 06:49:00 - [106]
 

Bumpage

Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
Posted - 2011.07.02 06:50:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Jiska Ensa
I remember when everyone was *****ing that they wanted fixes rather than new content.

Now everyone is *****ing they want new content.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore...


And most people would have been happy if we'd got either fixes or new spaceship-related content.

Instead we got a severely under-finished and unoptimized room, and a store for microtransactions.
Whoopty-****. No wonder people are less than happy.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.07.02 07:38:00 - [108]
 

Whencan we expect a Proper Content Expansion?

When enough people stop paying for the game without proper content updates.

If they halt development on EVE, and people STILL pay/play.... it would take an honorable Development team to do Content anyways.

We already found out what this team is doing. The bare minimum until people actualy quit paying.

Unfortunately, there are just way too many people who are so highly investedin the game, they cant just up and quit.If they would realize, quitting would only be temporary. Only long enough to force ccp's hands. And then they could resume as usual.....

But i fear the current atmosphere is Business as Usual at the CCPs from now on.....

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.02 07:54:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 02/07/2011 07:54:40
OK so putting the current shennanigans aside for a moment, let's look at some facts:

CCP told us ~14 months ago that it would :18 months: until we got any substantial new SpaceshipsEVE content (Summer Of Rage '10, etc.). Since when we've had a minor but nice expansion of PvE in the forum of Incursions

After all the Rage, we got a bone thrown to us in the form of Team BFF and Team Gridlock. Both of whom have done genuinely good work; in fact they're the ones who pretty much kept me subscribed between then and now. Team BFF have fixed a surprisingly enormous number of longstanding minor irritants (as well as a few things that didn't need fixing) and generally smoothed off some of the more jagged rusty edges from the user experience.

Team Gridlock have done outstanding work. Everyone who rages about CCP should always include a "...but at least Team Gridlock are improving performance" clause in their manifestos. I'm going to straight out say that in my opinion, general server performance is the best I've ever seen since I've started playing EVE. Lag is better now even than it was in Apocrypha. I'm not saying things are perfect, but if we're being honest, then for fights around the 200-300 level, they're pretty good. You can have a good sized fight and lag is simply not noticeable. If anyone doesn't think that's a massive technical achievement then they should point out some counter-examples.

So while the spaceships game is stagnant content-wise, it's dishonest to say that it has been totally neglected or even that it's not incrementally improving in terms of the core technology.

It sure could have been improved a hell of a lot more if the resources that were poured into walking in waiting rooms had been put into new content, and I'm as disappointed with the return on that investment as anyone here, but that's beyond discussion now. It's happened, and raging about it wont change that.

And most of the resources that have been put into SpaceshipsEVE have been put into the underlying codebase. Which, adorable little ADHD monkeys that we are, we don't really notice, because nothing's different, just incrementally better. Gridlock make a new optimisation that improves TQ performance under strain by 8%, no one says a damb thing. But the fight size limit for optimal performance goes up from 200 people to 216. It's an excellent technical achievement, but we don't really notice it, even though it's happened multiple times in the last year and the dark days of disconnects and desynch with 20 in local have been banished.

I'm told that the new NPE based in Incarna is actually quite nice, but lets face it, EVE isn't going to see - hasn't seen - a massive influx of players because the tutorial looks prettier and you can see your avatar in it. What's going to draw new people in and old people back is new things to do.

So in a weird way, we're in potentially quite a positive situation. We have the core spaceships game, long starved of new content but on a much sounder technological foundation, and CCP now have every incentive to put some new shiny in as soon as they possibly can because they desperately need some new subscriptions. Even if we didn't give two ****s about new content, they'd still be planning to put some in because they absolutely HAVE to.

Some of that new content will be in Incarna. In fact if I had to guess, I'd say that eventually a majority of new content will be, because SpaceshipsEVE is over 8 years old now, and we dont need more ships and we have 7000 systems and we dont really need much more space (some more non-sov 0.0 wouldn't go amiss, mind you.). In comparison, Incarna is a wide-open frontier full of new potential.

But I'm OK with that. What I dont like about Incarna now is that there's nothing to do. Give me something to do other than the EVE equivalent of watching Home Shopping Channel, and I will start to like it more.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.02 07:58:00 - [110]
 

tl;dr: last year we ripped CCP a new one with our NO NEW SHINY FIX LAG FFS demand.

They listened and they've delivered.

Now we can ask for new shiny.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.02 16:57:00 - [111]
 

I guess this:


Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Whencan we expect a Proper Content Expansion?

When enough people stop paying for the game without proper content updates.

If they halt development on EVE, and people STILL pay/play.... it would take an honorable Development team to do Content anyways.

We already found out what this team is doing. The bare minimum until people actualy quit paying.

Unfortunately, there are just way too many people who are so highly investedin the game, they cant just up and quit.If they would realize, quitting would only be temporary. Only long enough to force ccp's hands. And then they could resume as usual.....

But i fear the current atmosphere is Business as Usual at the CCPs from now on.....

Incarnatransactions is the only thing ccp will work on for the forseable future.

Agrikaan
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:09:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Agrikaan on 02/07/2011 17:12:40
Originally by: Jason1138
i saw a CCP employee say on another thread a couple months ago that the next T3's would probably not be released until 2014, so i pretty much agree with you

when you look at the last 3 releases, they've been more focused on removing things and nerfing things than they have introducing anything. The next 2 or 3 seem to be basically walking in stations type stuff, to hear the talk. I would expect a continuing smoke and mirrors performance where CCP shifts things around (like this scanning stuff, or removing social skills) to make it seem as if the game is being updated in major ways, when in reality most of the man hours are going into things that no one wants or cares about

that's why I unsubbed before this "expansion", because its clear we're not going to get any significant content for years, and why do you want to pay maintainence on a game in the hope that 2 years from now it will be good?

I personally don't even mind the microtransactions, it was the total lack of content over the last year (other than incursions), combined with the promise of continuing no content, combined with the outright rudeness and disrespect of the CCP employees that drove me away


Also why I've done the same, even though I count MT in the useless features / no new content category. Especially since I strongly believe they've been nerfing the game the past year to be able to charge for "un-nerfs". Like ship fittings. If they need more money, raise the sub by a dollar or two, who would argue about that.

And I still don't understand why (if I read it correctly) I must leave ships in the future, and leave pod every time I dock, even if it's just to deliver 10 bottles of Quafe. I'm a bloody captain, it's MY call.

And oh, can I have my unlimited local fittings back now please.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 14:10:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 06/07/2011 14:10:23
Was the ops question addressed at the press conference?

Isabelle Evotori
Posted - 2011.07.06 14:25:00 - [114]
 

If you don't like the game ... or where it is going. you can always make like a tree and leave...

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.07.06 16:57:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Isabelle Evotori
If you don't like the game ... or where it is going. you can always make like a tree and leave...


The op is asking the question where is eve going.

Do you know where it is going? More incarnatransactions? Please provide your source.

Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:13:00 - [116]
 

When did anything about gameplay involve anything to do with stations since outposts?

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:34:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Lusulpher
My issue is, why would you invite 300,000 violent, conniving strangers to your shared server, challenge them with a sadistic interface, harassing bugs, political assassination, and the threat of bankruptcy and ruination at EVERY MOMENT.

And then turn on them. To milk them of as much money as possible after years of torture and delayed improvement!




It's like beating a hornet's nest with your ****, while on a ladder. Neutral



^^ This ^^

Also, it helps to sterilize the hornet stings with Tequila. But don't let the Tequila wash away. Collect the run-off, drink it for its unique flavor, and thank CCP for the opportunity to drink the New Nectar of the Gods.



Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:05:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 06/07/2011 18:05:05
Originally by: Kinuko
You can expect more content that is tied to MT system. So if you don't want to pay for more $$$ then no content for you.


^This, why develop content that players pay for once when you can develop content that they have to pay twice for.

DECEPTIBROW
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:48:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
I suspect that many people like me are completely underwhelemed by the lack of any gameplay content in Incarna and additionally nothing of virtue being displayed in the development roadmap at this years FanFest.

With CCP only recently stating that they are just starting to look at gameplay and 0.0 again, I worry that it will be 2013 at the earlist before we see any new content developments or fixes to broken core mechanics. Concerns were raised that Eve development was put on hold for 18 months and there has been little if anything to reassure players and customers that there is a future beyond rehashing of existing content with upgraded turrets and models etc.

Specifically, one year ago, CCP published a Dev Blog titled Iterative development and what's happening in 2011 which outlined the future investment portfolio for development which largely centred on DUST, Incarna, Eve Gate and so forth. There was nothing at all of substance concerning EVE content or fixes to major gameplay issues. Instead, all revenues and investment was being divested into non-Eve projects, or expansions the majority of the player base did not want.

The Dev Blog was received very badly by the playerbase, and to follow was a damage control exercise which focused on low hanging fruit to appease everyone.

I mention this as one year on, the concerns that everyone raised so passionately last year are now realised. Incarna is a shallow expansion which offers only novelty content. I am not specificlaly against increased immersion and will quite happily walk in stations...but not at the expense of stopping all other meaningful development on Eve.

Is there anything that you as CCP can publish that outlines a future that we can look forward to?




Good post

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.07.11 08:19:00 - [120]
 

All of this are extremely good points and seems we can reasonably agree to an extent that several posters and for my part, people I know in several alliances, allianches chats and even in help if you raise the topic before being warned of a ban, that honestly, Incarna, is not the greatest thing to ever have happened and that Indeed, CCP will be remembered in the future for it, but not precisely for what they think they will be remembered.

Eve Is dying? More Like Murdered and frankenstein raised from the dead with a patchwork of stuff that I KNOW I DONT want as well as several of my virtual friends ingame.

Talking to a friend that works in a software development company as advisor, we were discussing the latest CCP blunder, and he told me it's NORMAL for most software companies of any kind, during growth stages to try to begin expanding into other areas and suddenly see themselves strapped for cash trying to fund different projects at the same time. How CCP emerges from this blatant act of GAMBLING is for the future to decide.

I WAS THERE, when CCP gambled away their game trying to take it into a direction that was not related to the main product, which was Space Ship PEW PEW.

For as much as they claimed they wanted a multifunctional Sci Fi simulator, their cored product is/was a Spaceships MMO. They can cry to heaven and hell and believe all they want, all they had was a successful space ships pew pew game that filled a niche no other MMO could fill.

They want this to turn P2W? Create Stuff out of thin air? Devaluate PLEX even more? Fine, several arguments trying to explain P2W is already here, blah blah, that's not the point.

What I'm trying to convey is that is insulting and demeaning to ME at least, that they keep this POKER FACE regarding the real future of development for EVE <not WoD or DUST> and the lack of anything of real importance and related to the spaceship pew pew concept of the game.

Saying "We funneling EVE Online money to WOD/DUST" is not a real explanation. That's like the Psycho Killer that cries "HAMBURGER" everytime he stabs at you. WE WANT TO KNOW, or if you want to be more specific:

I WANT TO KNOW, so I can finally lay the matter to rest and see if I will resub once my acct expires. It will be sad to leave behind my over 110mill SP's but honestly, this doesnt seem the same eve, nor a reformed better eve or even EVE 2.0, this looks like a badly patched "free" <as in "I mine my own minerals therefore they are Free" thing> DLC that I didn't want but I'm forced to load just to launch the game.

FREE Expansions are not free, specially in a world where 15$ a month more than enough cover server use and bandwidth. This is not EVERQUEST back in the day when Xpacs where "charged" around 50$ each just so you could advance in the gorgeous new "grinding progression".

Heck , I would rather see them CHARGE for xpacs and make them optional <as in you dont have the latest xpac you can't zone in into CQ> than being forced into a DOOR simply because whatever lies behind it is not something I wanted.

I would have loved more ships, or at least several tweaks, bugfixes and say, hybrid rebalance, or perhaps new space to explore, new missions, new types of weapons or missiles, or better ways to research, or perhaps a new mechanic for randomly appearing moons in 0.0 that get depleted like an asteroid but have huge amounts of minerals, forcing people to stop farming the static ones, or new and improved FW, or I don't know, so many permutations better than Monocles and pants and a hidden room to **********.

I don't care if you sell vanity stuff, but generate REAL SPACE SHIP content, don't weasel out.


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