open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Why the Eve community is not intelligent.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7

Author Topic

Cataca
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:17:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: M14D
Stuff



Most of this would have been valid, if it was on the testserver. You dont "probe" market conditions on your customers.

The other half suggests that you are smarter than the average community member and thus can judge EVERYTHING better than us. Better yet, you suggest a Modus operandi for us, which is exactly the opposite to what we are doing right now. Genious, seriously. Everytime i hear that what we are doing is totaly sutpid but the oposite opinion is smart (with the same rules of behaviour), it makes me die a little inside.

You arnt half as smart as you think you are, even if we are a bunch of morons.

Carmoisine Bavaire
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:18:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: M14D
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 25/06/2011 13:57:51


In many ways this thread is the classic socialist vs capitalist argument.

EVE, as it was, was a socialist game that allowed you to "work" your way to the top via the grind.

The "new and improved" EVE will be a capitalists game which allows you to purchase your way to the top.

The sentiments are strong because this cuts down to the very core of our personal beliefs and values. This game was just a canvas where we could project such values. Therefore the "revolution" and rioting are to be expected. In short, EVE has formed a new "government" and it will affect how people play the game. Akin to how people live when RL governments change.


Again, another person who assumes all of these so called capitalist-changes have gone live already. It makes me want to facepalm, as it just goes to show you haven't read my posts, at all.

It's almost as if all of you have woken up to the shock of finding out that gaming companies *le gasp* actually want to improve their flow of money; to then be able to expand and provide better service.


Don't take it so personal dip****. It was just a thought. Get a ****ing life ffs.Rolling Eyes

Players don't care about CCP's bottom line, just their product. Likewise CCP doesn't care about the players, just their bottom line.

Get it now?




Off all the braindead posts today, you score quite high.
The players is CCPs bottom line, get that ?

And since CCP is smarter than you buy degrees, after all they built EVE, and you didnt, wouldnt it be fair to assume that they didnt screw over theire own bottom line ?
Ohh but thats true, you dont think do you mate, you just spew out ****.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:19:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: M14D
That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.



Of course! Stupid me. How could I forget that bad publicity is still publicity. /o

Silvetar Jones
The Amber Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:20:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: M14D
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: M14D
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 25/06/2011 13:57:51


Getting a life, as in, protesting in-game around Jita? Saddest thing I've seen in my gaming career, imo.



You have a gaming career? So sad.......

Mi'Rini Nemo
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:20:00 - [125]
 

m14d = Idiot

Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:21:00 - [126]
 

Today, OP was a ***got.

ElJo123
Accompanied By Unicorns
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:23:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: M14D

There comes a point where the behaviour of the customers is so out of line, that the workings of "the customer is always king" fail to apply. It's not a dogmatic rule you can't stray from.

When the community at large is responding disproportionately to the issue at hand, you stay quiet for a while. That has one good reason, and I'll tell you what it is. Pay attention:

No one would listen to it. Any answer short from grovelling and handing out billions of free ISK would get torn apart.

That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.



After a billion gallons of tears, this post is refreshing.

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:23:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Sub Prime on 25/06/2011 14:24:09
Originally by: M14D
There comes a point where the behaviour of the customers is so out of line, that the workings of "the customer is always king" fail to apply. It's not a dogmatic rule you can't stray from.

When the community at large is responding disproportionately to the issue at hand, you stay quiet for a while. That has one good reason, and I'll tell you what it is. Pay attention:

No one would listen to it. Any answer short from grovelling and handing out billions of free ISK would get torn apart.
EDIT: Fixed ']'
That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.



PAY ATTENTION: They admitted they made a mistake by delaying their response. They should have nipped the problem in the bud. Considering how hard it is to issue an implicit statement regarding vanity items I would say they've screwed up.

What amazes me is that you thinking billions of free ISK would make any difference?! It just shows how ill-informed you are yourself.

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:25:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Sub Prime on 25/06/2011 14:25:39
You still fail to respond to posts detailing the flaws in your logic. What exactly are your business credentials btw?

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:26:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Sub Prime
Edited by: Sub Prime on 25/06/2011 14:24:09
Originally by: M14D
There comes a point where the behaviour of the customers is so out of line, that the workings of "the customer is always king" fail to apply. It's not a dogmatic rule you can't stray from.

When the community at large is responding disproportionately to the issue at hand, you stay quiet for a while. That has one good reason, and I'll tell you what it is. Pay attention:

No one would listen to it. Any answer short from grovelling and handing out billions of free ISK would get torn apart.
EDIT: Fixed ']'
That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.



PAY ATTENTION: They admitted they made a mistake by delaying their response. They should have nipped the problem in the bud. Considering how hard it is to issue an implicit statement regarding vanity items I would say they've screwed up.

What amazes me is that you thinking billions of free ISK would make any difference?! It just shows how ill-informed you are yourself.



What amazes me is how you seem to take things so literally. When I say something like "they'd have to hand out free ISK", it's to show the uselessness in coming out with a response at this stage. As for them apologising, sure, that's to be expected? You think they'd share openly that they preferred to wait til the kiddies went to bed? Nah.

Stick to your quick one-liners about me being a CCP alt or something. Works better for ya.

Sasuke Rukh
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:28:00 - [131]
 

lol the white knights

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:29:00 - [132]
 

I got to admit I agree with OP.

CCP deserve a lot of flak, mind you. As an expansion, incarna is laughable. It can in its entirety be perfectly substituted by a wallpaper showing a door. This is what makes me feel frustrated the most. Then there are the new turret icons that look stupid and are hardly visible against the background, then there are several consecutive past expansions that are, to put it mildly, rubbish. PI, incursions... I mean, lol.

But this newsletter deal and MT and so on really got such an exaggerated reaction from the community that I actually felt sorry for CCP. Despite them ruining the game WITHOUT the bloody MT and aurum - on the pure gameplay plan. They suck, but they don't deserve this, especially not over a matter that is really not nearly as serious as so many seem to think. Result is that most of the threads directly connecting to faults of incarna are pushed back by pages and pages of mindless rabble about the monocle and what-ifs of MT that are exactly that, what-ifs.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 25/06/2011 14:43:45
Originally by: M14D
Again, you seem to be bent on sticking to your conclusion that CCP is inevitably and stubbornly entering into MT-overload.

I am not more bent than CCP. I do what they do. I stopped listening and look at their actions.

Quote:
To recap: ALL THEY'VE DONE IS MODIFY AN EXISTING MONETARY TRANSACTION.

If I rip your heart out I will have modified your body, too. Your explanation of a "modification" is fail.

PLEX was introduced so that some players could buy ISKs for real money. It kept the problem with the goldsellers under control. In return did this introduce a "play for free"-model. It was considered a fair deal. That is what PLEX was to us.

Now we get increased hardware requirements for shiny clothing and silly monocles and a second currency. And for what? For what?????

Who wants vanity items? Who wants to see players buying vanity items? Tell me, who wants all this crap?

Do you want it? If so then you have nothing to post about and can buy moncoles and watch players buying it.

I however do not want players to buy vanity items or have them buy ISKs with real money. I merely tolerate it as the lesser evil. Building a new transaction model on this means that they are exploiting my tolerance, which I will not tolerate.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: M14D
That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.



After the first few minutes that Incarna hit, there was plenty of open dialogue:

Quote:
Miss Doggy > Hi, is there a plan to offer items to low income players? Some of us can't afford $60 USD for a monocle


Quote:
CCP Zinfandel > The Looking Glass Ocular Implant (right/gold) is fairly expensive. It's also a machine being installed into your eye and one would not want to buy a cheap version of something to go in your face. But you can also buy them on the...


Quote:
Haleuth > CCP Zinfandel whats with the crazy prices for the clothing?


Quote:
Kyle Chimko > dathuil can you explain the aur prices please? they are rediculously overpriced thanks


Quote:
CCP Zinfandel > Hello Kyle - we have been talking about the prices regularly in here. There are expensive items in the shop. Noble Appliances Corporation opened these shops particularly to target the wealthy capsuleer community.


It's nice to think you have causality on your side. You don't.



You also weren't here before the threadnarok hit (that was pretty much a US timezone product). Plenty of logic and reason to go around.


Th'wolf
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [135]
 

Personally, I would like to thank CCP for their brilliant ploy to bring all the whining f**tards out into the open. Our game will be enriched by their departure.

I love incarna.

Captain Futur3
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:31:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 25/06/2011 14:32:15
Originally by: Scorpii Zenith
Profit, without profit, there isn't EVE.

Without profit, there isn't new stuff for EVE.

You lazy ass socialistic poor kiddos should get a job and life.

Your stuff, to Scorpii Zenith, via contract. Thank you.


As if only 10% of our money would go into Eve - lol! 99% of it goes into World of Darkness and Dust, so i think we have a valid point. If i would know and SEE from the expansions, that CCP really wants to improve their game, it would be good, but all addons of the last 2 years are nothing more than some minor patches and not worth more than 5 dollars per month for all of us.

Just 2 points i will say:
- 2 new ship models in 3 expansions
- Tornado

Ovip Baniwa
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:32:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: M14D
It's a stereotype that's long existed eventhough it's been proven false many a time. Still, there are those who insist on keeping the view with them, that the Eve community is something special. That amongst an average taken number of the population; maturity and intelligence are traits that prosper here, more than they do in other online communities.

But I must conclude; especially after today, that this is a farce.

Before I explain why, I'll go ahead and offer a brief insight into company workings, using a form of written language that may finally reach some people here:

CCP is a company. Companies think about making money. Those thoughts are written down. Often they are discussed. This is done in a debated style. Because that highlights the good- and the bad factors of such a thought. After the debating is done, the thought is placed aside until it may one day be looked at again. A conclusion is then made of the old debate. Will this thought turn live? Maybe. Maybe not. This is how companies work. Everything must be discussed. Even things people no likey. Not even the company itself Just for the sake of discussing it. To test viability.


This, children, is done in many, if not all, companies around the world. Brainstorming sessions that are taken just one step further through having looked carefully into the market and noticing a growing trend of microtransactions. They don't nessecarily like this themselves, but to keep up with competition they investigate this phenomenom for the purpose of knowledge. Because when you study a topic, unpopular as it may be such as the former, you may find a loophole somewhere that deviates from the original, but can count on some actual support. That is why, when you circulate an internal newsletter, you discuss both the merits, disadvantages as well as ALL POSSIBLE OPTIONS THAT COME TO MIND; even if you personally detest it. That's why in the newsletter you will find detailed descriptions of possible microtransactions involving ships, ammo and the like.

Now, what this does not mean is that the plans are concrete and viable

This is where the Eve community mucks up. In such a fashion that it forgets to look at things realistically and instead gets carried away by its own zeal and the berserking effect of the warpaint on their faces. Because you see, the Eve community today tries to assert that the plans, as presented in the newsletter, are both concrete, viable and under heavy consideration.

1. Why they aren't concrete

First of all, it's an internal newsletter. It's meant for open discussion within the company itself for the purpose of evaluating a concept. This is done in similar fashion in other branches. For instance, I'm quite positive the United States government has ran through various sessions where they had to accurately write up a plan to conquer all of China. If it were to happen, how would we do it, when would we do it. This is done in such a way that it looks authentic. There's no point in doing it otherwise.
What this does not mean, again, is that such an internally discussed concept is concrete.

2. Why it isn't viable.

Unlike the majority of you, CCP is not that stupid, and their final evaluation would include that such an idea cannot ever rely on suitable community support and therefore it would never go through. While I'm sure it's a paradigm for some of you here that you're not the only one capable of thinking of negative sides, I can assure you; CCP had all of your possible complaints noted down before you even knew of this.




I 100% support your view. When looking at what those people spam in Jita's local, the personal insults, the spread of rumors that were communicated nowhere from CCP, it makes me feel sad.

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:32:00 - [138]
 

If CCP issued an unambiguous statement saying that there will never be non-vanity on sale for AURUM I'd totally agree with you. It's not very difficult.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:33:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Sub Prime
PAY ATTENTION: They admitted they made a mistake by delaying their response. They should have nipped the problem in the bud....

What problem exactly? Paranoia fuelled mass hysteria over a hypothetical scenario designed to spark internal debate is not a problem that CCP should handle even if they could .. that is something between the affected and their psychiatrists and/or pharmaceutical company of choice.

PS: Money always helps Very Happy At least until it is gone Sad

Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:35:00 - [140]
 

I want to thank CCP as well. Because of Incarna, i just discovered Perpetuum Online, and its awesome !

Thank you so much CCP, and farewell !

Lene Austrene
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:35:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: M14D
There comes a point where the behaviour of the customers is so out of line, that the workings of "the customer is always king" fail to apply. It's not a dogmatic rule you can't stray from.

When the community at large is responding disproportionately to the issue at hand, you stay quiet for a while. That has one good reason, and I'll tell you what it is. Pay attention:

No one would listen to it. Any answer short from grovelling and handing out billions of free ISK would get torn apart.

That's why they wait. That's why you're only getting a thought-exchange with the devs after things have calmed down. After people stop acting like children and open themselves to dialogue.


If you compare the protest that is going on in Eve Online right now with real life protests, you can't deny that there are some simularities if you look at it from a psychological standpoint. You have the crowd psychology, channeling anger, peer pressure, boredom and so on. Would you call war protesters children? It may not be the best anology, but we're dealing with the same thing here, except that human life is not the issue... hopefully.

You'll get a few arguments here, and you can feel supirior for a few minutes, but the fact is that people feel passionate about their games. Look at sports and gambling. People spend more time focusing on those things then their families and real political issues.

Cataca
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:36:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: M14D
What amazes me is how you seem to take things so literally. When I say something like "they'd have to hand out free ISK", it's to show the uselessness in coming out with a response at this stage. As for them apologising, sure, that's to be expected? You think they'd share openly that they preferred to wait til the kiddies went to bed? Nah.

Stick to your quick one-liners about me being a CCP alt or something. Works better for ya.

As said, my bigest complaint about your thread (apart from it not beeing okay to "test the market" on paying customers")

"you think are smarter than the average community member and thus can judge EVERYTHING better than us. Better yet, you suggest a Modus operandi for us, which is exactly the opposite to what we are doing right now. Genious, seriously. Everytime i hear that what we are doing is totaly sutpid but the oposite opinion is smart (with the same rules of behaviour), it makes me die a little inside."

buck herrick
101st Space Marine Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:36:00 - [143]
 

ignore op

either:

trolling pompous as s
or a
pompous as s troll


either way it has a troll and an as s involved- whether he actually has somethign reaming him as he mentioned in an earlier post.....well i leave that to your imagination.

Sub Prime
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:36:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Sub Prime
PAY ATTENTION: They admitted they made a mistake by delaying their response. They should have nipped the problem in the bud....

What problem exactly? Paranoia fuelled mass hysteria over a hypothetical scenario designed to spark internal debate is not a problem that CCP should handle even if they could .. that is something between the affected and their psychiatrists and/or pharmaceutical company of choice.

PS: Money always helps Very Happy At least until it is gone Sad


Just because you have no concerns about the potential for non-vanity items available within MT doesn't mean others shouldn't.

Daemeon Fyral
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:38:00 - [145]
 

Finally a post that doesn't make me want to punch something. Very good job OP I approve 100% Although I have to disagree with your assertion that it is the eve community as a whole that are stupid, more the highly vocal minority. All the intelligent people where smart enough to figure out exactly what you had posted, realized it wasn't a big deal and continued on with our lives.

That isn't to say I don't have some issues with the NeX I personally think that the ridiculously high prices, while good for keeping them exclusive Undermines the entire concept that they where originally talking about of "Buy plex, convert to aurum, buy clothing, sell on market, use isk to buy another plex repeat". I for one was actually quite excited about that concept. Providing a revenue stream for those of us willing to play the middle man while simultaneously making items available to players who didn't want to break down a whole plex for a single item. 60 dollars though for a bunch of pixels though is very unfathomable to me.

Anyways I digress, very good post and hopefully with more rational level headed discussion we can slowly start putting out a couple of these fires. (or at least have a nice marshmallow roast)

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:39:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Vrabac
But this newsletter deal and MT and so on really got such an exaggerated reaction from the community that I actually felt sorry for CCP. Despite them ruining the game WITHOUT the bloody MT and aurum - on the pure gameplay plan. They suck, but they don't deserve this, especially not over a matter that is really not nearly as serious as so many seem to think. Result is that most of the threads directly connecting to faults of incarna are pushed back by pages and pages of mindless rabble about the monocle and what-ifs of MT that are exactly that, what-ifs.


You are probably right. Still I like to know where this game is heading. If the what-ifs are pure brain farts I'll happily start chearing, well no not that but I'll keep playing & paying. If not I like to know to. That way I can close this chapter of my life and move on.

Simple as that.

bilingi
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:41:00 - [147]
 

Seriously? a One day alt?????

Hello post on your main. AND then maybe I will concluded your not some troll or Alt looking to Troll.

this is my main and has been for years WHY arent you using yours since you are so much more mature than I am.

Not sure if all this is correct English is not good for me to use yet.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:42:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: M14D
This, children, is done in many, if not all, companies around the world.


A sane company would brainstorm about what would be capable to do the most damage to their brand.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:42:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
I want to thank CCP as well. Because of Incarna, i just discovered Perpetuum Online, and its awesome !

Thank you so much CCP, and farewell !


Goodbye!

Benedic
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:43:00 - [150]
 

I thought it was because they paid for an awful forum?


Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only