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Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:32:00 - [2401]
 

ARE YOU MOVING PAST VANITY ITEMS FOR AURUM?:
[ X ] YES
[ X ] NO
[ X ] MAYBE
[ XX ] AFRAID TO TELL
[ XXX ] SCARED SHTTLESS
[ XXXX ] I WANT MY MOMMY




The answer!

Le Ming
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:34:00 - [2402]
 

Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. [...]


Prices are way too high, seriously.

Anything above 5$ i would not call a MICROtransaction. You didn't get the point of MICROtransactions - make small fees and make payment easy, so that ppl will buy it without thinking too much. Before they realize, they've spent more money than they initially wanted to. This is how the appstore works, just as an example. With prices that high, you totally failed in terms of micropayments/microtransactions. (btw. if 20-50$ is "micro" to you, i'd like to apply for a job at your company, for real.)

The way it is right now, it just looks like a total rip-off, sorry. :(
Not talking about, that these items can get blown up.

See, i'd like to give new clothes to my character to make her look cool and unique. But there's no freakin way i'm going to invest somewhat 100 bucks on that. Never ever!
And lucky as i always am, i get blown up and the money is down the drain - on top of implants, ship, equip + clone.
Party on!

Professor Shinn
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:35:00 - [2403]
 

Edited by: Professor Shinn on 25/06/2011 12:36:44
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 24/06/2011 21:02:44
A long-term MMO like Eve is built on trust.

Why should I keep investing time, effort and money into this game to someday achieve great things if the game MIGHT NOT be worth playing in 6 months?



EXACTLY! And yes it is in caps cause I was SHOUTING!

My friends and I am all considering canceling accounts now. We are certainly not spending any more of our hard earned cash on PLEX when the short term viability of this game is being questioned...

hitomi sun
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:37:00 - [2404]
 

I understand what evrybody is on about , but ...except for QC nothing is beeing forced on you , you don't like incarna? go explore wormholes or something , there's enough to do on eve to not be bothered by an expansion
And btw , maybe to lighten up the mood around here and say what nobody is saying
Captain Qaurters is looking like a gem and the animations on the character are all lovely

P.S CCP all you need to do is take a step back , look at your game , and use your logic , evrybody has it.

Majmuna
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:38:00 - [2405]
 

I am still amazed at the level of the ignorance - how come the CCP STILL did not provide the one simple answer to the one simple question?

WILL OR WILL YOU NOT GO BEYOND THE VANITY ITEMS?

Teako
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:40:00 - [2406]
 

Originally by: Majmuna
I am still amazed at the level of the ignorance - how come the CCP STILL did not provide the one simple answer to the one simple question?

WILL OR WILL YOU NOT GO BEYOND THE VANITY ITEMS?


Because the truth is yes they will. However to say yes right now is a bad move.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:42:00 - [2407]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I think my opinion of all of this as a member of the CSM is well laid out in a blog post I wrote after this devblog came out:

Quote:
I woke up this morning to find the forums even more afire with rage about Incarna, the "Fearless" newsletter, and the Virtual Goods store. I could tell in a few minutes that I wasn't going to get anything else done today.

"I can't work today, dear," I told my wife, "EVE is on fire."

"**** on EVE, then", she replied.

"I would, if I thought it would help."

So, I've spent most of the last 12 hours answering player questions, trying to give CCP good feedback on the issues, trying to get them to see how bad things have gotten. My fellow CSMs were doing the same.

Late in the day, we were presented with a draft devblog, and asked to comment on it. With the exception of the removal of a rather unfortunate analogy, that draft was essentially identical to what was just published.

None of CSM's concerns -- the ones the players were asking about -- were addressed; in particular:

* Will non-vanity virtual goods be introduced?

* Will CCP change their virtual goods pricing strategy?

* Will the CQ remain optional, or will it eventually be forced on the players?

To say that CSM is disappointed by the contents of this devblog would be an understatement. Incredulous is more like it.

Based on the devblog, and my impressions from the conversations I have had in recent days, it is my opinion that CCP has decided upon a strategy with respect to virtual goods and Incarna, and that they are going to fearlessly implement it regardless of feedback from CSM or the players.

Our words, and yours, appear worthless. Only our actions may have weight.

Of all of the questions CSM raised when we were shown the draft, the key one is the first: "Will non-vanity virtual goods be introduced?"

And I must be honest and say that CCP's steadfast refusal to answer that question is extremely disturbing, because all they have to do to defuse this crisis is publicly state that they will honor the understanding made with the players and the CSM that they would not introduce game-influencing vanity goods.

I may think the rollout of the NEX has been comically inept, but $70 monocles -- or $700 laser-equipped monocles -- do not affect the core of the game.

I may think that enforcing CQ use is stupid from both a PR and a game-design standpoint, but that's a long-term issue that can be thrashed out.

But non-vanity MT will damage -- perhaps fatally -- the social cohesion that is the "secret sauce" of EVE. We don't play EVE because of the great game mechanics, or the wonderful UI -- we play it despite these things, because EVE provides a depth of social interaction that no other game provides.

Take that away, and why play anymore?


Just come out and say it mate: CCP flat out lied to you and us.

They intend to introduce power MT is soon as they can sc**** the code together. Their refusal to deny it is all the confirmation we need. (Not that I'd even believe a denial from them by now.)

Dylatar
Gallente
Ocean Eleven
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:42:00 - [2408]
 

Originally by: Le Ming
Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. [...]


Prices are way too high, seriously.

Anything above 5$ i would not call a MICROtransaction. You didn't get the point of MICROtransactions - make small fees and make payment easy, so that ppl will buy it without thinking too much. Before they realize, they've spent more money than they initially wanted to. This is how the appstore works, just as an example. With prices that high, you totally failed in terms of micropayments/microtransactions. (btw. if 20-50$ is "micro" to you, i'd like to apply for a job at your company, for real.)

The way it is right now, it just looks like a total rip-off, sorry. :(
Not talking about, that these items can get blown up.

See, i'd like to give new clothes to my character to make her look cool and unique. But there's no freakin way i'm going to invest somewhat 100 bucks on that. Never ever!
And lucky as i always am, i get blown up and the money is down the drain - on top of implants, ship, equip + clone.
Party on!


Well I agree with you in the main point, the pricing. But thats not the real problem. By the way, AFAIK clothes won't get destroyed when you get podded while weraing them. Maybe costum ship paintings won't get lost too if/when they get introduced. But pricing is not a problem for clothes or paintings. They don't have impact on the game mechanics, structure, or any other player, they just look good (or not). So I really don't care if somebody will spend (much) real money on such things if he wants to. If it's too expensive for me, I don't want it and don't need it.

The concern is the possible trade of non-vanity items, which will directly have impact to the game, and giving the buyer an advantage over somebody who don't want, or can't afford to buy it.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:43:00 - [2409]
 

Originally by: Majmuna
I am still amazed at the level of the ignorance - how come the CCP STILL did not provide the one simple answer to the one simple question?

WILL OR WILL YOU NOT GO BEYOND THE VANITY ITEMS?



They already have!

Dust 514 is MT based with no sub.
Dust Bunnies can buy advantages with $$$.
Dust Bunnies will impact Eve 0.0 Sov mechanics.

Add it all up and this is what you get:

$$$$$ for advantages in Eve!
CCP has invested too much in Dust to reverse course on MT in Eve. What they are doing now is climatizing the player base to MT in general. It will evolve as we get closer to the release of Dust.

Ultimately they will go full blown MT.

Hume Smith
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:44:00 - [2410]
 

@ CCP Zulu - what a sorry excuse for "adressing issues"!!!

CCP needs a reality check

Majmuna
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:44:00 - [2411]
 

Originally by: Lucia Commodo
Sorry guys (players that is), but you've all been spoilt by a very good game company and instead of having some degree of trust based on 8 years of excellent work by these guys you're all screaming because of an internal memo taken out of context.

Quit. Go play a Sony game where they invest nothing in it except life support and then shut it down. Go play Darkfall where you're lucky to see one half-arsed expac a year full of bugs and poorly thought out mechanisms. Go play SWG - oh no, you can't, they're shutting it down. Go play pretty much any other game with no depth.

You're like children screaming at their parents without realising what everyone else's parents are like. These guys are seriously cool compared to most Devs. They play their game, they talk in normal language, they have vision and commitment.

Damn, you know what? There is nothing worse about EVE than there was a week ago. In fact, I think many would argue that Incarna marks the very first step in making EVE an even better game.

Seriously, just get a grip. If you scream and rant about things which haven't even happened you'll die from a heart attack by the time you're my age.


Sorry, Lucia, but I am extremely interested in knowing whether or not the non-vanity items will be introduced. If so, i will stop playing EVE, because I don't see any reason in playing it anymore - if you can just buy stuff, why bother doing things? And that's why I am posting here, raging in Jita, and that's why your argument has actually no real merit for me. Because I am not interested in funding the development of a game i will not play, a game where thick wallet can buy gameplay affecting bonuses.

Frosteye
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:44:00 - [2412]
 

Originally by: Frank Corncob
If I admired someone who bought $1000 jeans I would be admiring their vast wealth, not the fact they bought $1000 jeans.

I would actually ridicule them for buying such an overpriced pair of pants.


CCP - THIS SUMS IT ALL UP PERFECTLY!!!!!!

isca
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:45:00 - [2413]
 

So, 81 pages into the threadnaught, a token response from ccp zulu, 'revelations' from an allegedly leaked ccp email and no response?

You guys shouldn't be going away for the weekend, you should be monitoring what's going on here and at least, once and for all, putting to bed the MT for ingame advantage issue.

Unbelieveable Confused

Phey Onat
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:47:00 - [2414]
 

CCP, all you have to do to quell this uproar is proclaim that no MT will involve anything beyond vanity items in eve. Why can't you just say that? Is it because you actually do want to expand beyond vanity items??

Dinta Zembo
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:48:00 - [2415]
 

Originally by: Phey Onat
CCP, all you have to do to quell this uproar is proclaim that no MT will involve anything beyond vanity items in eve. Why can't you just say that? Is it because you actually do want to expand beyond vanity items??


^

Lumen Cain
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:57:00 - [2416]
 

Edited by: Lumen Cain on 25/06/2011 12:58:27
Originally by: Dinta Zembo
Originally by: Phey Onat
CCP, all you have to do to quell this uproar is proclaim that no MT will involve anything beyond vanity items in eve. Why can't you just say that? Is it because you actually do want to expand beyond vanity items??


^

^ also - 1 more this runs out in 4 days, no way im renewing without an answer

Eliniale
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:58:00 - [2417]
 

I grow ever more saddened.
I orginally considered this whole thing a good joke, then i went to disbelief abotu this not being a joke, anger that you seem to actually plan to sell SP for RL money, and currently i'm not even able to feel anger anymore, just so damn sad.

The game company who I considered to be the best company out there, despite being one of the smaller companies (or maybe because of), seems to be having a race on how to undo their succes as fast as possible. I'm truly at a loss, both for words and consequences.

My account is prepaid, and i've got another 6 months left, but the way things are looking now, these will be my last 6 months in eve. Not a happy thought

Dirk Decibel
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:59:00 - [2418]
 

Originally by: Le Ming
Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. [...]


Prices are way too high, seriously.

Anything above 5$ i would not call a MICROtransaction. You didn't get the point of MICROtransactions - make small fees and make payment easy, so that ppl will buy it without thinking too much. Before they realize, they've spent more money than they initially wanted to. This is how the appstore works, just as an example. With prices that high, you totally failed in terms of micropayments/microtransactions. (btw. if 20-50$ is "micro" to you, i'd like to apply for a job at your company, for real.)

The way it is right now, it just looks like a total rip-off, sorry. :(
Not talking about, that these items can get blown up.

See, i'd like to give new clothes to my character to make her look cool and unique. But there's no freakin way i'm going to invest somewhat 100 bucks on that. Never ever!
And lucky as i always am, i get blown up and the money is down the drain - on top of implants, ship, equip + clone.
Party on!


This, when they talked about micro, I was imagining stuff priced for about 1 to 5 dollar...

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:03:00 - [2419]
 

yea, BTW...SWG is death (canceled today). Embarassed

Amalie Lautreck
Noctiscion
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:03:00 - [2420]
 

Edited by: Amalie Lautreck on 25/06/2011 13:17:30
Well, I'm guessing the Fearless was a strategical leak by CCP. "Have the storm pass before we put the boat on the water etc."

As stated many times elsewhere, the main issue seem to be that u last november (or something) stated publicly that the shop would only present vanity items and not items/sevices that give players an edge when concerning game mechs.

The fact that CCP refused to answer the CSM on the subject (CSM says) or denounce it during this storm, I read as "Anything goes in the shop" on a long term. And that I suspect will ruin the game for me. I might pay a few bucks for a paint job on a ship (I'd have to be drunk, but that happends), but not to get an edge besides aura.

EVE is a game. A friggin' good game, but this move I suspect will leave it to the spoiled kids. Personally I have a steady job which pays above average. So I know the value of RL cash. And I need to get away from that from time to time. And if the the kids beat me every time I play, 'cause their dad earns more than me... Well, u get the picture right?

As for the pitchforks; yer playerbase cares about yer product. And when someone threatens something u care about, expect the mob to throw them at the fire.

Edit:
I was extremly sceptical when PLEX was introduced, as it made buying ISK for RL money far more easy and secure. The latter would typically make more ppl actually doing it. But I saw the point of addressing the illegal market.

Eliniale
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:03:00 - [2421]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Congratulations on your utter failure to address Incarna being the worst expansion ever released by CCP.

CQ are useless (inefficient as a UI, movement controls are unresponsive and limited, camera doesn't rotate with character, etc) and you give a giant finger to everyone disabling it by replacing the old highly functional docking port with a dull metal wall that does nothing.

Plus even five year old 3D games run 100 times faster and cooler than CQ, display a hell of a lot more in a far larger and more detailed space, and look twice as good.

New turret icons are dull muddy blobs that are very hard to tell apart, or even see next to targets against the darkness of space.

Large numbers of pre-existing bugs remain unaddressed, e.g. crashing while jumping when tabbed out of fullscreen, item bonuses not displaying/working right, etc.

I could go on, but the point is that saying Incarna "is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous" represents a giant disconnect with reality.


it's a bit like the god doesn't exists discussion, where a believer will state that's the opinion of the disbeliever.

Currently CCP seems to be a believer of it's own rightness.

Ginny Xuun
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:05:00 - [2422]
 

Originally by: Lumen Cain
Edited by: Lumen Cain on 25/06/2011 12:58:27
Originally by: Dinta Zembo
Originally by: Phey Onat
CCP, all you have to do to quell this uproar is proclaim that no MT will involve anything beyond vanity items in eve. Why can't you just say that? Is it because you actually do want to expand beyond vanity items??


^

^ also - 1 more this runs out in 4 days, no way im renewing without an answer

^

Raging Beaver
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:10:00 - [2423]
 

Edited by: Raging Beaver on 25/06/2011 13:49:37
Edited by: Raging Beaver on 25/06/2011 13:41:04
I'll try to approach this matter differently for you to see that it's not going to be that bad.

1. And foremost, buying AUR for PLEX is NOT buying them for REAL CASH! Why? Because you CAN acquire a PLEX for ISK! The prices of the (so far only) vanity items are through the roof, and if ANYONE buys a 3d model with a texture for +60$ or euro (and all of you can easily find out or even know already "how much that's in ISK"), I'll laugh my ass off. Note for CCP: I don't care about my avatar or the way my ships look AT ALL! This is why you will find that CQ is disabled in my client, and I have recustomized the toon only once (and went for "random" on the other 2).

2. "If you could buy gold ammo for AUR..." - I wouldn't mind. Why? Let's go back a couple of discussions earlier. CCP are in need of an ISK sink, right? What better sink than making players buy a plex (350-380kk ISK after all) just to NOT add the time to their account but to... exchange it for AUR? That 350-380kk ISK (PLEX) is right now out of the game, isn't it? And even better, noone can extend their account for it! So we get an ISK sink AND a PLEX sink. Wonderful, isn't it? (CCP perspective, not necessarily mine but I'm not raging... or am I... Razz )

3. If the tendency to have the possibility of selling the goods they offer in NeX on the market or using contracts/direct trade remains, then there's even less to worry about. The "gold ammo" mentioned previously will just sooner or later spring up and you'll be able to buy it without wasting the PLEX (you can be sure that the prices will be ridiculous when it does but hey, remember the noctis?...). And if you think that even with this you are at a disadvantage - just go to nullsec, grind 10 sanctums, buy a PLEX, redeem it... voila, you're not anymore...

4. Skillpoints or faction standings for AUR (which in turn is PLEX, which in turn is ISK - this is my perspective, I don't and I never will buy the GTC - 2x PLEX - for ANYTHING other than extending the game time) is actually a thing that I would like. Fu...ing Gallente would finally stop shooting at one of my alts in highsec. Skillpoints? I'd probably be flying those Amarr T2s much sooner if you could buy SP's for a PLEX. That's of course only if the exchange rate would be attractive (I kind of doubt it will after the now infamous monocle appeared).

Now go! Attack me! Grind me into the dirt with your rage! But be mindful, that if CCP actually wants to introduce stuff like that, there WILL BE CUSTOMERS and you WILL NOT be listened to, AT ALL!

Hugs and kisses!

Vincent Jarjadian
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:10:00 - [2424]
 

I am really sad that CCP is being so stupid at the moment...

CCP Needs to appease their rather large community that they wont put non vanity MTs into EVE.... If EVE dies... DUST 524 dies and probably some of their other games die... in the end CCP will loose a lot of business...

They also need to realise that they make more dollars selling something easily reproducable like ingame items at a LOW price to lots of people.... supposedly they sold 50 monicles in 2 days... if they had been $0.60 CCP would have likely sold hundreds of thousands of them...

Also... Microtransactions.... I think this is RICHPPLONLYtransactions...

I know people who have been paying for EVE... either paying RL money or ISK for their accounts that are now leaving...

CCP... you are going to LOOSE MONEY if you dont buck up and start listening and responding to your customers...

There is an old saying... 'The Customer Is ALWAYS Right.' and it certainly applies to EVE.

As for the incidents in the past few months... Lack of consultation of the CSM (aparently), Major nerfs to 0.0 life, and now this...

Maybe it's time for CCP to find a new director for EVE Online... One who will continue to make lots of money for CCP and give the customers a game that is as great as EVE was. If the current trends continue... EVE will fall and the days of 1000+ battles and alliances will end.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:11:00 - [2425]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

Just come out and say it mate: CCP flat out lied to you and us.

They intend to introduce power MT is soon as they can sc**** the code together. Their refusal to deny it is all the confirmation we need. (Not that I'd even believe a denial from them by now.)


Imma be political and say "We're waiting for clarification".

Our position on this has been crystal clear (and fairly loud). We don't care about pay for dollies and I personally don't care if they blew the entire pricing structure cause it's not a feature I have any interest in at all and it has no in game impact. If you wanna blow your rl fortune to look pretty then I'll be chuckling at your pretty ass as I blow you up.

We expect there to be a definitive statement clearing up their intentions and stating for the record that they won't be going to a pay for things that matter platform or else **** be about to get uncomfortable in here.

Tester128
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:13:00 - [2426]
 

according to the spreadsheet
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AtUHbyNk0JSGdHR1TDhrRVhhQTUzLUMyVTNZdjJUaHc&output=html

ccp just lost 2000 subscriptions in two days
it's about 300k$ per year. Good job CCP

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:14:00 - [2427]
 

W T F

New turrets and effects are nice and all, and the bouncing off the walls in a small room wasn't so bad...

Killing off (banning) the old vets (AND CONTENT MAKERS) who have a legitimate reason to be angered...
Can't say that I'm all that thrilled with the whole situation either.

My sub is up in 10 days. I guess I don't need to worry about finding that next PLEX anymore.
Pity, I never thought I'd be one to make an "I quit" post.

Ginny Xuun
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:14:00 - [2428]
 

Originally by: Rozovoy Floyd
Recovering from this point is not going to be easy, but also isn't impossible.


This, so much this.

Snake Johnson
Gallente
JOVE INC
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:17:00 - [2429]
 

Originally by: Tester128
according to the spreadsheet
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AtUHbyNk0JSGdHR1TDhrRVhhQTUzLUMyVTNZdjJUaHc&output=html

ccp just lost 2000 subscriptions in two days
it's about 300k$ per year. Good job CCP


Here's a template for the next devblog from P:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=1220357

Vjorn Angannon
Fleet Escort Services
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:19:00 - [2430]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I think my opinion of all of this as a member of the CSM is well laid out in a blog post I wrote after this devblog came out:


Trebor, your blog link leads directly back to the post you just made....

relink please, as I'd like to read Very Happy



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