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Onyx Blackman
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:43:00 - [2071]
 

Originally by: Cosmoes
sit back and watch eve burn


Hard to see the flames with CCP crouched over me and ****ting in my mouth.

Rashmika Sky
Amarr
R. Sky Escorts
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:45:00 - [2072]
 

If I repeat anything stated earlier, my apologies, but there's no way in hell I'm reading 60+ pages forum posts. If anybody, CCP or non, actually does... I'm impressed.

Ignoring my opinion that charging micro-transactions when you're already charging for subscriptions is way too greedy to be acceptable, I'd like to touch on the prices of these items. Funny enough, I addressed this issue in a post back in 2007, stating:
Originally by: Rashmika Sky Posted - 2007.10.25 03:45:00

When people buy ships that dwarf the Eiffel Tower for a few million isk, it seems absurd for any article of clothing to come *anywhere* near those kinds of prices. I googled the construction cost for the Eiffel Tower just now, and found a site that states the cost as $US 35,000,000 were the cost converted into 2006 currency. Now consider how much more it must cost to build even a frigate in Eve, for comparison. Probably 1,000,000 isk is more valuable than the $35 mil construction cost for the tower. In which case... how much clothing should 1,000,000 isk buy a pilot?



There's just no way to justify these items having the prices they do; the material costs, and even the costs of labor in producing incredibly ornate clothing, still could not explain the prices of these items. I'm sorry, but it requires a ridiculous suspension of disbelief to accept these prices.

I also fear the consequences this will have on Incarna - does CCP want to risk such a huge undertaking becoming an unused, hated feature? It is obvious that a great deal of work went into Incarna, and while what we have seen thus far is rather limited, I believe there is a great deal of potential - but if the community ignores Incarna for whatever reason, that potential will come to nothing.

You can't force people to socialize, and socialization is what Incarna is meant for. Incarna isn't something people can be forced to use, so CCP needs to ensure people actually like Incarna and want to use it, or they will waste the opportunity Incarna presents. As somebody that has spent far more time chatting in Eve than killing things or making isk, I want to see Incarna live up to its potential, but the direction CCP is going makes me doubt the likelihood that it will.

Now returning to my opinion that charging micro-transactions on top of a subscription is too greedy - my main problem with this is that I used to have access to all the content in Eve without me or *anybody else* having to spend real life money beyond the subscription costs. Now, as a community, we are essentially getting less than 100% of Eve for the same price.

I know that nothing an individual says here will have any impact on CCP's decisions. I hope, though, that enough of the community voicing their concerns or displeasure in this thread and on these forums in general, will sway CCP towards a more sensible path that will do them credit and show they see their players as more than wallets to be emptied.

Yes, CCP is a company, and companies exist to make money; but what is worth more, your integrity, your reputation and the quality of your product, or a few extra dollars?

Vala Malderran
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:46:00 - [2073]
 

Originally by: Onyx Blackman
Originally by: Cosmoes
sit back and watch eve burn


Hard to see the flames with CCP crouched over me and ****ting in my mouth.




+1

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:46:00 - [2074]
 

Originally by: Tethys Atreides
I am sad that certain members of this community, rather than taking CCP to task for the above, have turned this into a chest thumping contest.



These are the people that have been "taking CCP to task" for 4 to 8 years.

That's why they are here in force. Because they do actually care.

Just most now realise this is the best corp fail-cascade the game has had and it's better to laugh.

Futar Csav0
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:46:00 - [2075]
 


CAAN0N
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:47:00 - [2076]
 

Edited by: CAAN0N on 25/06/2011 04:49:32
YO CCP
I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Star Wars Galaxies had one of the best Cluter****s of all time. One of the best Cluter****s of all time!

Oh by the way I just got a phone call it was Seld***** (PRONS fill in the blanks) He says that you are a TERRIBLE game developers and that you don't want to get better.

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:48:00 - [2077]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 04:37:49
Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

This is your thing. You have to have a bloody expansion every 6 months so you can inject a few thousand subscribers into your struggling model, so it comes to this. Headwear. Not a polished add-on ("best expansion yet", indeed. =P ), just a room that breaks graphics cards and oh, buy our $30 pants, cause we blew our budget on our drunken Dust plans and then flipped off Microsoft.

If CCP was truly interested in growing EVE as a game, then they'd make that game, that core game, appeal to many more people. It's why it still blows my mind that for as cool as PvP and sovergnity is in game (the feature they keep trying to sell), it is enjoyed by no more than a quarter of the population at most. Less than 10% of EVE players are in 0.0.

And yet things like content, missions, STORY, are hardly anywhere to be seen. Their content department has been gutted, their mission tools and features have been abandoned one after the other (COSMOS, Epic Arcs, Faction Warfare, Exploration, expeditions, etc) in various states of development. There is no narrative to experience, except for the one the players make themselves, and for most people, they read about it in EVE news, not partake of it themselves, because it's beyond the reach of most to be enjoyable.

But instead of building on that, you know, like every other MMO company does, we get hats. Oh, and they're $70. If this were TF2, I'd have a freakin' "towering pile of monocle" for that. Twice.

I'd like to see CCP some out and state a direction and plan for this game, and stick with it for a while, and not just throw out half-baked features because someone decided it was a great idea and wrote a blog post promising it before it was vetted or not. If you really think "walking in stations" is going to add a lot, then great. But take some time on it, and actually follow through for once, instead of littering the game with all of these long forgotten features, and then insult us by trying to justify a $70 eye patch. I mean, REALLY?

This game has been coasting on a lack of competition as the only real sci-fi MMO in town, but that's not going to grow it beyond what it is, nor will it keep it going indefinitely. If you guys don't want to pull a SWG, you'll take a good long look at it, and really figure out what you want to do with this thing.


The market size for sci-fi spacesubmarine game is limited.





They can subsist just fine on 300k. They really can. But if they want more, as you said, then they've gotta understand that it's not going to grow much more than what it is now. The majority of features cater to a small subset of EVE players. The rest of us enjoy the scraps there are. They may be good enough (we subscribed, afterall) but it's by no means a sure thing.

Every other MMO has CONTENT. Story. Plot. Writing. We don't have much of that in EVE. We have chronicles (on a website) and a bunch of broken tools. Every 6 months its a new "feature" and then they move onto something different. There's no long term focus or strategy. This is another "lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" push. And its by far the most insulting yet.

I have no problems with microtransactions in and of themselves. Someone wants to blow $70 on a eyepatch, fine. Good for those who bought it.

What's frustrating is watching EVE getting more and more boring (to the point I unsubscribed, so here I remain with my last alt) while they beat that same damn 0.0 drum and go from one drunken idea to the next, leaving the pieces in their wake.

EVE could have many more players. But the reason they don't is not because of bugs, it's because outside of us bitter few, no one wants to play it. Everyone else tries it and finds that unless they want to spend their waking hours married to a 0.0 corp, it's a darn boring game.

But somehow, hats will fix that. Rolling Eyes

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:49:00 - [2078]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 04:51:45
Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

They can subsist just fine on 300k. They really can.



For sure. I give them more then enough money to maintain the service.

Originally by: Kalestia Barrak
EVE could have many more players.


Most of them already have accounts even, just need their favorite bug fix to bring them back.

Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:51:00 - [2079]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Tethys Atreides
I am sad that certain members of this community, rather than taking CCP to task for the above, have turned this into a chest thumping contest.



These are the people that have been "taking CCP to task" for 4 to 8 years.

That's why they are here in force. Because they do actually care.

Just most now realise this is the best corp fail-cascade the game has had and it's better to laugh.


I'm not suggesting they don't care. On the contrary, I beleive we are all here because we share a deep attachment to this game. The problem comes when it is turned into a battle of egos. Then you see what we did today with Hilmar digging his heels in despite the obvious flow of events and opinions. All I'm saying is that calling someone a **** does not further the discussion...

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:53:00 - [2080]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 04:55:43
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 04:53:19
Originally by: Tethys Atreides
The problem comes when it is turned into a battle of egos. Then you see what we did today with Hilmar digging his heels in despite the obvious flow of events and opinions. All I'm saying is that calling someone a **** does not further the discussion...


Hilmar adopted the "Users tell me dumb stuff which is wrong" attitude probably 2 years ago.

edit: They got burnt by user feedback without quality metrics hard.

There was a thread with a document being linked by people who didn't really agree with the document.
A lot of bumping by angry people and CCP focused on the bad info contained in the ****storm.

There were a few screaming it was wrong but the tide was way too strong.

This taught Hilmar we are idiots.

Tarinara
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:54:00 - [2081]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
Edited by: Mars Theran on 25/06/2011 03:22:52I'd use these threads to count the loyal customers and respectable others, and push a big red button on the rest. One click and it wipes out all posts by that person, simultaneously stopping them from posting further, and disables their ability to continue subscribing. I'd even refund their last payment, while moving their CC, (if applicable), to a list of cards with a warning flag on them, "Not to be accepted."

But that's me. CCP's considerably more understanding.


Hey(!) - can we get you put in charge then? I could get my $20USD back and not feel like I needed a shower...

And you *do* seem to have Hilmars customer relation skills down pat. Laughing

Kavin Alavandar
Extropy Dianoetics
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:55:00 - [2082]
 

Edited by: Kavin Alavandar on 25/06/2011 04:55:57
Originally by: Rashmika Sky
[snip]
Thanks for that, Rashmika. That's the kind of criticism that my posts are not directed at.

I don't like the prices, either, but the ***** fight that has ensued only makes CCP look an order of magnitude saner.

Edit: F e c e s is censored? Amazing.

Ender sup
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:56:00 - [2083]
 

Are you wearing $1000 Japanese pants? How about a $70 Icelandic monocle to go with them?

Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:56:00 - [2084]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 04:53:19
Originally by: Tethys Atreides
The problem comes when it is turned into a battle of egos. Then you see what we did today with Hilmar digging his heels in despite the obvious flow of events and opinions. All I'm saying is that calling someone a **** does not further the discussion...


Hilmar adopted the "Users tell me dumb stuff which is wrong" attitude probably 2 years ago.


Well I hope he sees the light this time, or this game has breathed it's last. I'll have to take my $100 a month and start over elsewhere...

Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:57:00 - [2085]
 

Those weren't the words I was hoping to hear.

See ya. You can have my delicious tears.

Crying or Very sad

Algathas
Minmatar
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:57:00 - [2086]
 

Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

Every other MMO has CONTENT. Story. Plot. Writing. We don't have much of that in EVE. We have chronicles (on a website) and a bunch of broken tools. Every 6 months its a new "feature" and then they move onto something different. There's no long term focus or strategy. This is another "lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" push. And its by far the most insulting yet.


Except that they stopped writing chronicles. No new story content has come out in a long time.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:58:00 - [2087]
 

Edited by: Ranka Mei on 25/06/2011 05:04:05

Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

But somehow, hats will fix that.

That's what VALVe thought too, when they started selling hats, and flags, and robot gestures, and what not, for Portal 2. Folks were a bit disgruntled; but at least VALVe had the common sense to sell 'em for ca. $5 a pop, instead of a whopping $70 -- another sign of how much CCP has lost contact with reality. Greed will do that for you.

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:59:00 - [2088]
 

Originally by: Tethys Atreides

I'm not suggesting they don't care. On the contrary, I beleive we are all here because we share a deep attachment to this game. The problem comes when it is turned into a battle of egos. Then you see what we did today with Hilmar digging his heels in despite the obvious flow of events and opinions. All I'm saying is that calling someone a **** does not further the discussion...


You're spot on.

They do care. But there are some really HUGE egos in CCP. They think their way is best and obviously must be the most fun and enjoyable game ever, and anything else that's even remotely mainstream sucks. Dust was a huge example of that.

They'll keep their MTs, and find some new idea to throw resources at before becoming bored and trying something else to jack up numbers in a 6 month period. That's all their dev cycle allows for. =P

Auric Aurumfinger
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:59:00 - [2089]
 

So, according to your logic, there should be a couple pants in this world worth more than a fleet o jumbo jets.

Sorry, but your logic is out of touch with reality and your arrogance is disappointing. What a shame, sir. You lost a perfect opportunity to address this and choose the troll rant path.

Samroski
Games Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:00:00 - [2090]
 

CCP - you have totally lost touch with your player base. This blog is like a slap on our faces. Maybe you should have attempted to read what they players were saying before this dribble, which just adds fuel to fire.

A sad day no doubt. I am un-subbing 7 of my 8 accounts. Do not bother replying (you are not even reading this), as that will likely prompt me to totally leave Eve, which is a game I love, and thought I'd play till I die.

daint666
Minmatar
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:01:00 - [2091]
 

Shut the hell up Zulu this is a game not real life. I dont care about your jeans and i dont care about your monocles.

All i care is that some kid isnt getting Aurum issue Hurricanes.

Now stuff your ****ty dev blog back down your smug mouth.


Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:01:00 - [2092]
 

Originally by: Algathas
Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

Every other MMO has CONTENT. Story. Plot. Writing. We don't have much of that in EVE. We have chronicles (on a website) and a bunch of broken tools. Every 6 months its a new "feature" and then they move onto something different. There's no long term focus or strategy. This is another "lets throw this at the wall and see if it sticks" push. And its by far the most insulting yet.


Except that they stopped writing chronicles. No new story content has come out in a long time.


Funny that. Confused

Kavin Alavandar
Extropy Dianoetics
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:02:00 - [2093]
 

Accusations of being arrogant, smug, or out of touch are quite rich in the context of the posts in which they appear.

Julian Kirov
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:08:00 - [2094]
 

One of the things that really bugged me from the newsletter this all started from was the whole comparing Eve to golf and wanting people to spend $3000 a year on this ****. I mean, what the ****.

It's not even surprising either, with how much they were pushing the "Eve is real" and "Eve is forever" lines during fanfest. They genuinely believe their product is that good.

They must have some quality kool-aid to cover up what a buggy unfinished mess this game has always been.

timmus
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:08:00 - [2095]
 

been playing eve since 03. i hope we all can move past this. eve is my lover. lol

Tichu Tilyon
Ordo Drakonis
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:12:00 - [2096]
 


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:18:00 - [2097]
 

When you buy a monocle does it have a survey box?

a) I bought this as a joke with my now worthless isk.
b) I bought this awesome thing cause I like golf.

zapthemrocks
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:21:00 - [2098]
 

Dear CCP:
Please hire a real economist, who has the brain not to talk about $1,000 pair of jeans, compare 0ís and 1ís to real life prices, and thinks itís a good idea to tell your customers they are wrong for not wanting to pay $1,000 for junk jeans.

You spit in our faces, and steal from our pocket books. Just to fund your freak side shows: Dust 514, World of Darkens, and Ancillary. If you are having a cash flow issues cut back on your side shows. Eve Online is what made you, and it will be what allows you to branch out. If you really need the money, license and sell Carbon if it really is your property like you claim, and not rented from a china company.

For years you have promised us Incarna, and how great things were going to be. It is nothing more than a Trojan Horse into our world for you to set up cash shops and insult us. I donít believe you when you say that these cash shop items will not impact game play, they already have. I know how companies and investors think. As soon as players get use to the idea of a cash shop, you will start adding: boosters, implants, ammo, ships, space stations, bpoís, with no end in sight. I know this day would come when you first allowed plexís to be bought and sold with ISK. It would have been one thing if from day one Eve Online had cash shops, plexís and people bought ISk a legal way. However, that is not the game you created. Those are not the players you have attracted. If players wanted to play a free to play game they would not be playing Eve Online. If players wanted to pay for extra content they would not be playing Eve Online. I donít know who had the great idea to be selling item B in a market of item A buyers. I can only hope the lesions you learn will not cost you everything.

Blizzard use to be an ok company; until, they turned anything they touched into a giant cash cow. Moooo insert more dollar bills to keep playing. Why should we make a game and sell it as one set, when we can break it into three parts and sell them each for $59.99. Thatís three times the profit! You have already gone down this path by adding in cash shop, making plexís tradable, and exploiting currency exchange rates.

I am sickened by your greed. Those that forget who made them are destroyed by the same hand. I should have jumped ship when I found out you shook hands with the devil Sony. At the end of the day I am nothing more than a customer and I vote will my wallet. CCGAMES YOU NO LONGER HAVE MY VOTE.

PMolkenthin
TunDraGon
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:23:00 - [2099]
 

I hope someone hurry's up and release a new internet spaceship game, so I can jump off this sinking ship. What a ****ing **** way to treat your loyal subscribers CCP. Evil or Very Mad

Thodol
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:23:00 - [2100]
 

CCP absolutely MUST suffer from some form of mental handicap. There is no other explanation for just how dim witted that blog is. CCP destroyed their name in a 48hr period of time, impressive.


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