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UMEE
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1111]
 

Edited by: UMEE on 24/06/2011 22:24:21
you guys arent really "fearless". you resemble more a league of morons. if you wanna know what fearless means in the MMO industry, look at ArenaNet and their GW2 development. you guys are really just copying the microtransaction craze that's been happening over the last year or two. youre not doing anything different.

fearless would mean following up on broken major features introduced years ago and left to rot. fearless would mean fessing up to you mistakes and correcting them. fearless would mean discussing this entire MT bull**** with your fans, instead of sneaking it in like the rats you are. you guys are not fearless. i would lol if i wasnt so disappointed Sad

now, be smart and write another dev blog addressing people's actual concerns: why do you plan to sell non-vanity items, such as ships, for irl money? why are you even selling ship PAINT for irl currency?

you guys WILL do what the majority of the player base wants, or you will crash and burn.


Tar om
Minmatar
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1112]
 


This is the lamest thing I've read in years. Go stick your head in the sand and wait until the Golden Geese stop pecking you to bts.
What a pathetic, snivelling ******.

Sacking time, seriously.

Pistonbroke
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1113]
 

just had a look at Jita Market for monocles, yes I have a toon outside joining the protest

Interesting market figures... a whole 6 (six) have been sold with 5 (five) in total on the market.

way to go.

Laughing

Sensei Cohiba
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1114]
 

Originally by: Malkev
Also:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?




Tactalan
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1115]
 

1 subscription cancelled and 1 PLEX account not extended.

Nicely done Zulu.

Gurgeh Morat
Gallente
7th Interval
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1116]
 

Edited by: Gurgeh Morat on 24/06/2011 22:28:12
Actually I think this devblog speaks volumes, when combined with the amount of time it took to produce and the lack of any denials concerning the future transactional nature of Eve. The leaked document was trying to sell the MT philosophy to CCP's own staff implying there is dissention in the ranks. However upper management have already made their minds up.

Clearly they would have preferred the player base not to realise this for quite sometime yet, but the strategy is already planned and in place. This kind of strategic planning takes time and is used to underpin acquisition of resources and investment.

Once the rat was let out of the bag CCP need to respond to the player base, but if the MT strategy has already been set in stone what can they say? If the intention wasn't to eventually introduce non vanity items to the store they would have denied it immediately. It would have been "It's been discussed but we have decided we would never go down that route because it would break Eve as it currently is"

The lack of any denial and failure to address anything other than the attitude of the more reactionary forum members to CCP is a clear message that the strategy outlined in 'Fearless' is indeed the intended future of Eve whether the players or the ground floor coders want it or not.

I'm sure it only took so long to reply because they had to meet and find out if there was any room to manouvre on the long planned strategy discussed in fearless. Obviously the answer was no. There's not much else they can say in that case, except if they don't definitively answer your questions they can keep some of the player base hanging around hoping that things won't turn out that bad or that they will change their mind.

They must have planned for a certain amount of existing players quitting, offset against potential profits of new bling obsessed players with more money than sense. Perhaps some investors have got them over a barrel who knows?

Ultimately you have your answer loud and clear. CCP Zulu even referred to the stance they are going to take on this... FEARLESS.

Personally I would unsub if I hadn't already done so a year ago sensing the cold wind of change. I have only been hanging around these forums in the vain hope that Eve would improve instead sliding inevitably downhill. However seeing this devblog response and the confusion and offence it has caused made me use my hours for plex option to post this.

Unfortunately all things come to an end. The Eve you loved and the company that created it are no more. Don't hang about hoping in vain things will change. The only thing that influences the new masters of CCP is money. If any playerbase in the world should understand that it is the players of Eve.

I know we all truly loved the CCP of old and the Eve that was but the only hope you have of turning around Eve's New Game Experience is by not endorsing the changes with your wallets. I sincerely hope that one day CCP will annouce an update to Eve that encompasses the philosophy and principals that started it in the first place, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Goodnight sweet princes & princesses

explayer of games

Ytrea
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:23:00 - [1117]
 

Edited by: Ytrea on 24/06/2011 22:23:46
The most evasive, pointless, and most of all insulting dev-blog; or indeed any developer communication I have read in a decade of MMO's.

Unsubscribed.

Lynx Amurie
Caldari
CRUX CORPORATE ARMADA
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:24:00 - [1118]
 

Y'know what?

I only have one thing to say anymore.

**** you too CCP.

Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:24:00 - [1119]
 

Originally by: Malkev
Also:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?





You can stop asking this, it's been answered.

Amoes Sten
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:24:00 - [1120]
 

Wow. This seems almost like Zulu is trolling us. Unfortunately we know better by now.

FYI this was exactly the wrong thing to say to us.

Your smug, middle finger response to our legitimate concerns has convinced me that CCP should no longer have my trust. EVE online is your game, but we are under no obligation to keep playing it.

Goodbye EVE. I hope TOR comes out soon. Neutral

Carebear with Issues
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:24:00 - [1121]
 

Quote:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?






Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1122]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris

Yes, AUR will be used to buy in-game advantages.



After all, you don't build a store and introduce a new currency in a player-driven economy if it's going to be used to sell stuff to, what, 50 people (if that)?


I have to agree, there is no other reason to be charging the amount they are IF these items are complete. Those clothes will do something in game, some how, other than just being on your toon.

I suspect $$ for SP to be right around the corner.

HaRDOuSeK
Ghostbusters Co.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1123]
 

Dear CCP Zulu,
first of all, I want to apologize for my horrible english. But I hope, it won't be a great issue, so back to "business".

First of all - admit it. That dev blog was absolutely FAIL. You've got here more then 6 000 posts where player's base is really mad. And after 2 days of "collecting info" from these posts, you (or probably some whole team) release such a nice big pack of bullsh*ts, where you tried to avoid answering anything, and also made us to look like some idiots. What the f*ck is this all about? Is CCP trying to treat us like imbecils? Man, f*ck this.

If CCP does not want to give a proper answers from TOP, tell us now, whole situation will be closed - probably 3/4 of whole player base and subscribers will quit, some will stay, and in whole CCP will people smashing heads against walls, because they paycheck will rapidle go down. No problem!

In another case, please, stop being so f*cking ignorant and stop treating us like bunch full of idiots! Then grab your balls, step forward and tell us what were thinking. We will probably smash you down to the ground in rage, but you will at least learn, then that was really bad idea and it's time to start to listen to us. And things will be good since then.

Thanks,

HaRD.


PS: Sorry again for my terrible english.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1124]
 

Originally by: Andares Sol
Originally by: Elondris Singh
Dear CCP.

$80 != Micro.

That is all.




Once the $ and € crumble and the hyperinflation starts, it might be Twisted Evil


Yeah, why anyone would want to buy space gold right now when real gold is a sure thing is beyond me. Far beyond CCP too it seems.

Risible Spoon
Minmatar
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1125]
 

Hopefully the ongoing protests on the forum and in-game will make it clear that, since the player base's trust in CCP has deteriorated to such a low level, we will accept nothing less than a guarantee that non-vanity MT items will not be introduced into the game. Without such a commitment, expect the protests and unsubs to continue.

The newsletter illustrates perfectly the direction we fear CCP is taking EVE: a gimped feature (50 saved fittings) is introduced. It is touted as being more than sufficient for most players, when it is in fact unusable at such a level. Players are then given the option to "upgrade" their saved fittings for aurum. Sales of vanity items have drained much isk out of the economy, so players are forced to pay real world currency to unlock basic game functionality and remain competitive with everyone else.

This is how non-vanity MT works in MMOs. The basic feature provides a taste but is not sufficient without paying extra for the upgraded version. The economy will then be more dependent on its corporate overlords and require more active management, thus weakening the player-driven economy and draining the sand out of the box.

I will not continue to invest time and money into EVE if it moves in this direction.

Sparge
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1126]
 

Originally by: EVERYBODY

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?



Willow Frost
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [1127]
 

Wow, what a terrible response, it basically hasn't answered any questions or concerns the community have and just shows how out of touch with reality and the playerbase CCP seem to be. I'm actually quite shocked at how poor that response is.

Of the two area's you touched let me give my opinion.

1). On the horrible things being said towards certain CCP staff members as a result of the leak. Whilst I myself would never resort to doing so and certainly don't condone it, the problem is the CCP have allowed themselves to put a lead developer in this position, especially knowing (As the leaked article so obviously states) what a touchy subject MT's are. The fact CCP have allowed the discussions to be recorded and distributed in a company paper have resulted in the customers getting to know that a lead developer basically loves MT's and would like nothing more that to drain our wallets of every last cent if possible. How are we supposed to feel about the future direction of the game with such a Lead developer at the helm ?

As a result I firmly believe that CCP as a company need to decide whether or not gameplay impacting MT's are to be allowed or whether they will limit them to cosmetic only, they need to make the decision and let the customers know and if sticking with cosmetics only, then promise (maybe even by putting it the EULA) that they will not change direction on this matter, I don't see any other way of regaining the communities trust. The problem is that I honestly don't see how CCP as a company can state a company direction on MT's of cosmetic only, whilst having this lead developer in his current role, it is almost a conflict of interest and such a shame that CCP have allowed this poor chap to end up in this position.

2). On the subject of the MT's pricing. I think it is disgraceful to charge so much for a virtual item, you can spin it anyway you like but in my opinion it is morally wrong to charge so much money. I've come to expect this kind of thing from other companies but I honestly thought CCP were better. Maybe that is my problem for even thinking that CCP are anything other than a typical business, and maybe it is naive of me, but I do believe that companies have not only a financial responsibility to shareholders but a responsibility to their customers to act in a moral and ethical manner. CCP, you are currently falling very short of this.

I hope the at the very highest level someone looks at these customer issues again, takes onboard the customer feedback and at least provides something a bit more that this worthless blog response. It's time to at least treat your customers with some respect and honesty, even if we might not like the answer, I for one would prefer you to just come out and state the game is going 'Pay to Win' if that is your plan, at least it would allow me to move on.


Aleya Holston
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1128]
 

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?





Ytrea
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1129]
 

Quote:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?




We want a straight answer.

niroshido
Caldari
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1130]
 

Quote:
which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous


smooth and successful ? this patch smells of dog****, the lighting is ****, the movement is ****, it destroys pc's, it burns graphics cards and is considered the biggest ****ing waste of a patch to ever come into existance, i have seen bogs been converted into better things. You obviously have your head so far up your ass you can kiss your own tonsils.

Quote:
Fearless is one of our company values.


how about incompetence ? you have obviously no grasp of reality. Its not just your customers who laugh directly at you, but your competitors and gaming review boards.

Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life.


I LIKE TO SHOUT THIS OUT HOPEFULLY YOU WILL HEAR THIS. CLOTHES IN REAL LIFE HAVE WORTH, WE WEAR CLOTHING TO KEEP WARM AND IT IS A LAW IN ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY TO WEAR CLOTHES. EVE-ONLINE IS MAKE BELIEVE, WE DON'T WANT TO SPEND 100 DOLLARS ON MAKE BELIEVE CLOTHES!!

Quote:
Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop


i have never in my life encountered a man or woman who could justify 1,000 dollars on clothes, but if they did its because they would like to show off, the nex market items dont look any different from the **** anyone else wears and given the fact CQ is a lone boat why would we wear something to boast about, when clearly no one can ****ing see it.

Quote:
In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.


you are right, we don't need to buy it and we don't want to either THUS THE ****ING HATE, this bull**** is a clear example of exploitation, reaching out to 12 year old kids who have stolen there parents credit cards.

Quote:
I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having. We‘ll continue monitoring the forums and other communications channels and pick up and reply if there are concerns not covered by this blog.


addressed OUR concerns?, you honestly think this dev blog has achieved addressing our concerns, do you have any idea of the sheer hate this patch has caused? you have destroyed the companies reputation by pushing **** onto your fan base, with no grasp of what your fan base are actually complaining about. for close to 7years CCP has maintained what one could consider to be a decent reputation amongst the gaming community, you set your reputation on fire and to insult it more you ****ed on it to put the fire out.

Let me re-iterate to you what you have done wrong
> You destroyed peoples computers
> You created a clunky half operable walk around a bathroom
> You created a feature that EVERYONE has protested about
> You have begun an MT war, which will split your community and force those who don't want out, don't think for a second that your fan base is stupid enough to assume that clothes are the only items that WILL be pushed out onto the farse you call neX store, i can name several games which have completely failed when MT has come in to there game.

Quote:
We will gradually introduce items at other price points, definitely lower and probably higher than what‘s in the store today. We hope you enjoy them and are as passionate about them as you are of the current items that are for sale.


would one these items be a strap on, cause i see a lot of people getting ****ed by this, or will the strap on be obviously invisible

DaRuLe
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1131]
 

At least now I know what it feels like to be taken the ****, really , really hard.

Angel Vengen
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1132]
 

Ok... Here we go. I'm posting with my main because I have nothing to hide.

Let me start by saying that this is my personal opinion and does not represent any of my Friends, Family or Extended Family in the game.

I heard about the newsletter on my corps forums a few days ago, but last night was the first time I seriously read it. And I was furious. Like freak out on everyone angry. If my fiance stuck around, or at least didn't take the dog, they would not have escaped it either.

I spoke with a member of my Extended Family(corp) last night and I raged on him a bit too. And he said alot of stuff that I read, but didn't really listen to, since I was so angry. I should have listened. Would have saved me from a night of poor sleep. Fort, I promise to at least pretend to listen even harder next time brother.

Today at work I had alot of time to think about everything. Fort's words, and the Internal Newsletter. And I came to realize something. Something that was "quasi-confirmed" by this dev-blog and other posts. So I want to share my thoughts with those of you that actually end up sticking around and reading my words.

I had come to the conclusion that this newsletter might just be an internal discussion on a Point/Counter point debate. You know, those things smart companies or groups of people do every once in a while? I have come to the conclusion that who-ever gave that newsletter to Helicity might have been doing so knowing the rage it would cause in the wrong direction.

  • MT for items already existing in-game. perish the thought, we could never allow that in our game. Oh wait. Its been around since I started playing. At first with ebay, and black market isk deals, now at least through a certified source with the PLEX. You buy a PLEX with real life currency, then sell it for isk, and congrats, you now have isk to use for in-game items. all AUR really does is adds another step to it. You use AUR for a set of +5's, or ISK from a plex for +5's, you still payed RL money for in-game objects.


  • MT for standings. Who cares. So what, that clown just spent XX.XX to get his cal navy standing up, and you spent X years building it. Get over it, you know the ins and outs of those L4 missions better than he does. You know what to tank, whatever. My only concern with this is twofold. One, if you can buy standings, I better be able to buy sec status, as there have been hundreds of threads over the years of pirates stating they would be willing to pay cash for standings. Two, implementing a time constraint, much like JC's, or Re-maps. I think 1 month per full point would be ideal, not that each month you can only buy one point, but you buy what you want to buy, then at the end, you are told you cant buy anything similar to that for X months.


  • MT for new in-game items. Cool. now when I kill someone who has more money than sense, I can get uber-lewtz. Skill can win or lose a fight, items just make it easier or harder. No skill, doesn't matter what you go out in, I can take it in a rifter.


  • MT for skillpoints. This is a big no-no. That will really really break the game.


  • Stupid high prices on clothes. So don't buy them!? You don't need to buy the damn monocle. Wait for sales, or just take the stock stuff. Yes, that much money for in-game vanity items is silly, but your all flipping out on the conversion rate. You don't actually have to spend a penny on it, just make enough isk to buy a plex, then convert to AUR. problem solved.


In conclusion.

I personally feel that the things being said today wont have nearly as much impact as if they were said yesterday. Or the day before before the forums exploded. That was just poor decision making skills, flat out.

CCP Soundwave. I would like to apologize for the terrible things I said about you to my computer screen, the magazine asking money for RL things,

Rarkal
Vzdelops
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1133]
 

Shocking read that blog is Embarassed

Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [1134]
 

Dear CCP

I can smell the Sony kool-aid on your breath, I hope it is sweet.

Your response was lackluster, and missing the obvious. We have only a few complaints.

- Aurum prices are insane. We wanted to try out your cool new clothes, but they are a lot much, not just a bit

- Ships out of thin air? No. We make what we fly.

Much of the rest I think is just a Q&A issue, and time.. which much of your player base does not understand, or are simply impatient about.

Your leaked documents are an internal issue, don't take it out on reposters or outsiders. Any one of us would have done the same. Their words were no hotter than others.

New Eden changes forever this day. RIP what once was

:(___

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1135]
 

Originally by: Gremoxx
modules not working, implants dissapering, GPU´s overheating, ppl unable to log on, ppl unable to run multible clients...

How can you call this SUCCESSFUL EXPANSION


I don't mean to nitpick, but I think the real question is: how can you call this an expansion at all? It was a patch that added, for the most part, new graphics (some of which were quite pretty).

Can we expect CCP Zulu to reply here shortly saying: "Dang, that [the devblog] was a pretty silly move on my part, wasn't it?". It would be a good sign that devblog part II was imminent, but I suspect they'll expect us to move along now. After all, they've answered our questions. We can go about our business, these weren't the droids we're looking for.

Catrisane
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1136]
 

blah blah blah "man I hope this buys us some time to figure out how to spin this rubbish" blah blah

Did I miss anything?

Boo mkII
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1137]
 

Thank you Zulu, it's much better now that you've addressed in the best possible way the players concerns.

Oh Wait... maybe not Surprised



I mean, seriously CCP... Mad Where are you ? Who are these guys talking with your accounts ?

Ronin Silfar
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1138]
 

Originally by: Nicoletta Modena
Let me help you CCP- Read this and you may have a bit better understanding why we are so upset: http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html

And FYI, I've already killed one on my subs, with more to follow.


This.
This, and this.
I do not believe you (CCP) will find a more well though-out, and well written piece of feedback anywhere. If you read NOTHING, read this. Of course if you are reading nothing then you won't see this post and thereby the article it links. -_- Damnit!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1139]
 

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa
If I were a CCP shareholder I would ask tomorrow morning for the dismissal of CCP Zulu for utter incompetence...

Despising shamelessly old paying customers with 2 or 3 accounts is totally irresponsible...


It's so much easier then that with CCPs structure.

A few big guys arrive in a black BWM 4WD followed by an old beat up truck.

"We are taking the computers".

Sing Xing
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1140]
 

Originally by: Korbin Dallaz
Edited by: Korbin Dallaz on 24/06/2011 22:12:06
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hey all. To clarify this blog, its intent was to address two topics and two topics only;

Arnar


You guys don't get it. You are dancing around the 500 pound gorilla in the room. The more you try to re-frame the discussion and spin this thing or try to straw man this topic into something more favorable the more our worst fears are reinforced and the more ****ed we get.



God damnit! Another one? I just corrected some other guy about it, like 4 pages ago.

You're using the 500lb gorilla metaphor wrong! The (really it is 800) 500lb gorilla metaphor, is based on the gorilla being so strong, it can do whatever the hell it please. The "elephant in the room" metaphor is about an embarresing (but obvious) thing, noone talks about, which creates an uncomfortable athmosphere (an alchoholic uncle at a picnic for instance, or the boss and the secretary having an affair).

The dancing part is way more straight forward, "Dancing around the subject", there is no animals involved in that metaphor.

FFS people, get this stuff right.

Meanwhile, people are overreacting, calm the hell down already.


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