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Dan Estrellas Amigo
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:08:00 - [991]

Edited by: Dan Estrellas Amigo on 24/06/2011 22:10:51
Originally by: Lynx Amurie
Originally by: Harleen Frances Quinzel

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

How many times does this have to be reposted before one of you imbeciles gives us an answer?

Plus, we want a respectful choice to not use the system-burning CQ; not just a picture of a door. Return system-friendly ship hangar please, with "Leave Pod" option.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:08:00 - [992]

It took how long to write that? Confused

Lhanisa Khinan
Morning Glory Media
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:08:00 - [993]

Wait, this is it?

This is the thing you've been telling us to sit tight and wait for, to hold off on our pitchforks and torches until? THIS? What the hell happened to all the information from the forums your PR team was supposedly sending up to you guys, CCP? How is this, in part or at all, supposed to assuage the rage burning your forums to cinders and charcoal?

You told us what Fearless was, but ignored our pricing concerns outright. You touched on the current Vanity MT issue, but refused to even acknowledge our concerns about pay-to-win. And above and beyond everything else, you can't even offer a reason why, after making promises to the playerbase on TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS, one a compromise I think most of us were willing to swallow (no MT ever > only vanity MT) you had anyone, for any reason, writing about pay-to-win MT, either from an exaggerated or genuine viewpoint, whether it was their personal view of things or not.

You have broken trust left and right throughout this incident and have now told us to wait for a non-answer that you thought, for SOME REASON, would be enough, when it's far and away from. We don't want soft words about the point of Fearless (though the clarification of purpose was appreciated). We want a hard commitment, one way or another, on the subject of MTs that influence the actual game world. There will be a definite end to the madness infecting everything when we get a solid commitment, one way or another, or at least I'd think so.

But don't think this is an "any answer is a good answer" situation. Saying you won't ever implement pay to win will result in you, I imagine, keeping a lot of subscriptions and at least start you on the road to reconciling with a very angry consumer base. Saying you will, from my perspective, would result in a lot more account cancellations and a very empty game.

This could be the moment you save EVE, or it could be the big death that comes before the little death. The outrage and mass cancellation to come before the long period of decreasing activity, and a huge world populated by smaller and smaller numbers. A whisper and gone.

Please, please make the right decision. No matter how angry I am right now at what I think is an insult to the playerbase and our concerns, I love this game and I want to think of CCP with pride again. I don't want to lose one of the purest sandboxes in the MMO world, and in fact the video game world in general. So please, don't burn us more.

Kallynda Nai
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [994]

Originally by: Powdah
You having trouble loading the page Zulu, or are we going to wait another 200 more before the concerns we've clearly and repeatedly stated are addressed?

Or not addressed as was the case here.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [995]

Now, is that only my impression or Zulu doesnt understand (and CCP doesnt understand) that they failed?!

"Sorry" what a strange and difficult word uh?!?

I dont understand that bad-hidden superiority by CCP big names. Seems like they joked me. Again.

Tam Althor
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [996]

What a load of crap, that blog is more like a god damn troll post.

Cashcow Golden Goose
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [997]

Jesus Christ Zulu, you certainly didn't miss this opportunity to miss this opportunity.

Sasha deDeteis
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [998]

This devblog feels like being in a courtroom for just a parking ticket and the judge is taking the **** at you and raises the fine tenfold while laughing and pointing, this all diligently of course and with the utmost respect.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [999]

I agree with the article about not picking on individuals. Even if someone meant it at the time, give it a break, I think they'll get the message with targetting them individually.

I know you only addressed a couple of issues in this response, but the BIG one is the suggestion of allowing AUR purchase of game-breaking, unbalancing items and services. Poor show.

Back on subject, how you address pricing structures totally misses the point of micro transactions. The whole economic point of a microtransaction is to encourage people to spend insignificant amount of money on each item, but to sell them in very large volumes (because "another 50c is nothing").

So the most advanced RL space ship costs US$1.7 billion

In game the RL Money > Plex > T3 cost is about US$40, and how many US$2.2 billion pairs of trousers are you likely to sell?

For every $1000 pair of trousers, you'll find 1000 different $5 pairs, where are the mass market items?

Before you say capsuleers are gods among mortals, not all of them are. You want to increase the interest to noobs? Only having items costing billions of isk is a bit... odd.

I suspect you did it because the items never wear out. Seriously though, I spend more on eve in a year than I spend on clothes already, why on earth would I want to spend huge amounts extra on it?

Posted as my main for emphasis.

Wilhelm Riley
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [1000]

And what about Liang Nuren and Helicity Boson?!

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [1001]

Wow. Well here's my first, and last, post on these forums.

Been a fun couple of years, but I won't pay to be insulted like this.

-2 subs.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [1002]

That was probably the most pathetic response I've ever read. Are you really that stupid CCP? Fearless? Idiotic more like.Courage is one step away from utterly stupid and horrendously arrogant.

"Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them? "

People think I'm an idiot if I wear a pair of jeans that cost $1000. Half a days developer time for $70 monocle per time? **** that. Get real, look at DLC for other MMO's. $5, $10 max. $20 for a complete expansion to a game. YOU ARE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THE GAMES INDUSTRY!

The different is CCP, is that it takes a an artist a day to make one of your vanity items, only once. You charge $50 for it. When I buy a pair of jeans it costs money to manufacture them, grow the cotton that goes into them, each pair is made by a factory worker, its shipped to my local store. See why it has value yet?

Do you really think we're that stupid?

"In almost the same instant as we deployed Incarna - which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous -"
It looks ****, it performs ****, it contains no content, needed 2 additional patches and an extended down time. Thats not sucessful, thats **** poor.

"I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having."

No, you've made it worse. Your arrogance and lack of apology has actually made me fume. Before I was just a little bemused by your overpriced ****e but now I've lost all respect for you and CCP.

"Seriously, these people were doing their jobs and do not deserve the hate and ****storm being pointed at them."
Exploitation will get you people's hate. Deal with it. Maybe a teaspoon of concrete is needed? Harden the f....

Doc Fury
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [1003]

This about sums it up, and it's from one of your own CCP:


Originally by: The longer you stay the more it hurts


The Reykjavik office is very family friendly and you’ll often find children running around the office. During lunch it is also acceptable to bring in spouses and children. If you have a family and want to spend additional time with them this could be a way.

It’s a place where anyone can get a start in the industry because turnover in departments like QA is still rather high. The way you talk matters more than your actual experience and you can take advantage of this during the interviews.

The Atlanta office is a different place and doesn’t suffer from the serious unprofessionalism as much as the Reykjavik office. The sad thing is that they too pay the price by seeing their work halted for years at a time to jump ship and bandage EVE up.


The lack of professionalism is mind blowing. Procedures that are common in other companies are not used here and considered a waste of time. There is no solid vision for EVE which leaves employees with no other option than to start work and find out what is wanted by trial and error, this is what CCP means with Agile development.

Fun game play is not a priority, promises made to investors and aesthetics are. ‘If it looks good then it is good’ is an often heard motto. CCP is committed to use technology in EVE as well as WoD and DUST, so certain features are made and used in EVE knowing they will not be fun, nor fit EVE and no one expects them to be appreciated by the playerbase. Alienating the playerbase of EVE further. Objections from employees who point this out are waved away.

CCP does not take criticism well and often ignores retrospectives. Criticism is considered to be a negative attitude and is severely frowned upon. A lot of effort goes into maintaining a good morale with a lot of internal PR. After all it’s cheaper to print posters than pay an average salary to employees.

Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago.

Career progression is nonexistent unless you become friends with the right clique of people and use the right corporate buzzwords. Hard work is not something that will set you apart, most people work hard until they become so disillusioned as they realise it makes no difference and slack off.

Combine this with the below average pay (CCP pays 30% to 50% less than other companies) and you’ll often hear a lot of frustration when work is discussed outside of the office by people who have been here for some time. The longer you stay the less you start to care about the game you develope, because no one else does.

Advice to Senior Management

Recruit very senior people from the games industry and actually listen to what they say. Stop believing your own hype.

Kagura Nikon
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [1004]

Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 24/06/2011 22:37:28
If CCP thinks we are the kind of people that think someoen is cool because they are wearing a $1000 jeans. Then they have no clue at all of the type of people that play their game!

We are playing internet spaceships at a friday night! The absolute majority here are geeks! As a general rule of thumb we despise those values, and we despise people that think they are cool because thye wear an expensive jeans.

And its offensive to a lot of us to even suggest that we would think that is cool!

CCP get in tough with reality (of your game community), its nothing like your own office.

I for once wil treat as badly as I can anyone in game that I know that have bought such items ( in game, like not helpign them, givign bad advices and shootign their ships..)

Sanakan Seidensha
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1005]

I don't get the rage going on in here. Maybe someone can explain how anything changes with Aurum?

Currently in EvE, you can be a noob, get fresh into the game, buy a load of Plex, use them to buy a char, use them to buy your char a mom and all the shiny stuff to fit it with.
Will sure beat those other noobs in ther Impairors, dont' you think?
If that is not power for $$$ already being a reality in EvE and has been forever, then I don't know what is...

So what's new here?

Inflicted Fear
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1006]

Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu speaks on the Fearless newsletter and Monocles in this dev blog.

What I want to know is why fearless was even published? Because at this stage it seems like a really poor idea with Dust512 just around the corner. Sentiments such as "Customers are cash cows" in the public domain, now really has to hurt.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1007]

So if I'm reading this correctly, you've completely avoided responding to any of the issues at hand, while simultaneously calling your customers big poopypants meanieheads.

It took you all day to write this? Really?

Carebear with Issues
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1008]

Originally by: Toanfoal
Edited by: Toanfoal on 24/06/2011 21:27:45
Dear CCP Zulu,

The tone of your blog-post is 100% fail. The content of your blog-post is virtually worthless, but I will stubbornly respond, nonetheless.

1. No one cares about how smooth or not smooth Incarna's release was. Way to pat yourself on the back while Rome burns.

2. "Fearless" - 1st of all, most people are ticked off that you even felt the topic of 'more microtransactions' was worthy of discussion. We thought you were better than that, and our disappointment knows no bounds. "Everyone else is doing it" is the excuse of a 12 year old kid, not an A-list game developer. 2nd - perhaps CCP Soundwave was just following orders. Fine. Fire whoever told him to write that column. It's quite simple - if you want to keep making ANY money from us, someone needs to take responsibility.

3. Pricing structure... yawn. This is just a stupid issue. You chose to introduce CCP-spawned, permanent, indestructable objects into a player driven, 'everything-else-is-destructable' economy, so yeah - I understand that you either have to charge a ridiculous price for those objects or they will almost instantly saturate the system. Many other people don't understand this, but you know what - you did a crap job of explaining that to people.

You have done nothing to placate the masses. I strongly suggest that you and your co-workers look up two important events in MMO history:

1. The Star Wars NGE

2. The Blizzard RealID fiasco

In one case, SOE got greedy and wanted to broaden their playerbase by restructuring the game. Their players cried out, SOE did not listen, and now the game is dead. It's a joke. You should be glad they screwed up, cause SWG was your only other sandbox competition. But you should certainly not try to one-up their mistake.

In the other case, Blizzard got greedy and wanted to inject the Facebook craze into WoW. Their players cried out, Blizzard listened, and a disaster was averted.

You need to get conciliatory quickly, you need to take responsibility, and you need to prove to your community that you have learned your lesson and the direction of Eve has been re-aligned. Good luck.

Quoted for wisdom.

Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1009]

Edited by: CANHAZNAMECHANGE on 24/06/2011 22:12:50
So... CCP Zulu you should run to become the Forseti Íslands. You definitely know your way around avoiding topics that you don't want to talk about.

Now how about you delete this blog. And take off the big pants and join your community down here. We are here, your game is nothing without us. Why wont you listen to us. Sure, maybe some people do spend huge bucks on clothing IRL. But that, and this seems to be what the entire company is missing, is REAL LIFE. This is not real life. This is a video game and should not pretend to be real life. That said if you keep micro-transactions you need to look at your prices and get an honest reality check. Because if you were even part of the same world you would think for a second and see how unreasonable you are being. But I urge you to look at games like Star Trek Online. I urge the community to look at that game. They started with "All items in the store will be ascetic only" as well. Now you can buy star ships that are way better then anything on the market and even super weapons and dreadnaughts. This ALL WAYS gets out of hand. Never does a micro-transaction based system end well for the client base or the devs. Stop what your doing and think. You don't need "The Cycle". Eve worked before it... not so much with it as the market hubs are closed. And it will work after it.

I doubt you will bother reading this if your former PR is any sign, But i can hope right?

P.S- I have other opinions on the way your handling this issue as a whole. But I cant express them for fear of becoming Mr. C

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1010]

Originally by: Bloodpetal

Does CCP Promise Vanity Items Only?

They can promise anything. They were promising no MT at all less than a year ago.

Jaak 242
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1011]

Zulu, it's difficult to go beyond un-subscribing in response to your total cluelessness, but I would if I could.

ariana ailith
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1012]

With so many accounts cancelled... Can i have your ISK?


Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1013]

This devblog is disheartening.

Starlight Eternal
Bene Tleilax technologies
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1014]

Edited by: Starlight Eternal on 24/06/2011 22:11:13
This blog is a ****ing joke!
To put it mildly, if this blog was nuclear bomb and you were given it to kill a fly, you just detonated it in a wrong god damned galaxy. That's how much you were off target.

Procrastination won't get you out of this one!
Your refusal to answer important questions won't go away if you simply turn "ignore" switch on.
Ignore switch just gets you more and more canceled subscriptions by the hour.

If it looks like **** and if it smells like **** it probably is ****! Answer the real questions we asked in the threadnought!


Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1015]

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Erik Finnegan
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1016]

This "live with it" blog is really disappointing.

Jovan Geldon
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1017]

You are so far detached, it's not even funny Zulu. Nothing short of a personal apology and reassurance of "No non-vanity microtransactions ever" from Hilmar himself will get me to ever give you greedy bastards another penny of my money.

Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:10:00 - [1018]

The Eve community loves graphs. Stick a graph in this blog showing how wildly successful AUR has been and we'll shut up about the monocle, but you have to follow that up with an answer to whether or not we will have to spend AUR to stay competitive in the future.

Taleris Kline
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:11:00 - [1019]

Wow, this is supposedly the best MMO community and this is what we have to show for ourselves.

Point #1: If I was Hilmer I would order the forums shut down until the community can get a healthy dose of perspective. The major question of "Will there be non-vanity item in the NEX store?" is not a topic of this dev blog. CCP Zulu clarified as much and still the community ignores the point of the dev blog. THIS IS A GAME!. THIS IS A HOBBY! Do you guys really like what you've turned into over a hobby? Can you really look in the mirror and be proud of raging this much over a hobby? This is how riots happen after a sporting event. How silly do these look? We have it right here.

Poing #2: A better question to be asking is acknowledging that this is not the blog with the answer to THE QUESTION and asking who is responsible for it.

Point #3: Subscribers do not write the paychecks for CCP employees. NEWSFLASH! Those checks are written by CCP incorporated. Does anyone truely know where CCP gets all of their money from? Threatening CCP employees paychecks is not only wrong but just shows immaturity.

There are ways to disagree respectfully and there are ways to look like a total jerk. I'm seeing many more jerks than people with something intelligent to say.

Zalyz S'venfirion
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:11:00 - [1020]

The main questions are unanswered.
Terrible response. I expected better from you guys, really. Sad

Are MTs going beyond vanity items or is that all?
What I care is about game balance without extra money affecting it.

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