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blankseplocked Tippia the voice of reason.
 
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Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:54:00 - [31]
 

+1

A very well written summation of the issues.

ThunderEyes
Amarr
ClawsAndTeeth
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:55:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Khamelean
Supported, while i don't agree on all points, it is good to see clearly defined constructive criticism.


Signed +1

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:23:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
see if you could get the CSM involved.
It seems like a sizeable amount of them have been tweeting or linking or blogging about it already, so no worries there.

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:26:00 - [34]
 

Blue horseshoe loves Anacott Steel.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:35:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Teinyhr
So he ends his words in "You no longer have the confidence of the community."

I'd appreciate if you wouldn't put your words in my mouth, Tippia. CCP still has my vote of confidence, as it always has had.

I do appreciate if players put pressure on the game developers on not living up to their promises, but 99% of this **** is "**** CCP" "I'm quitting and taking my bazillion accounts with me", generally meaningless rage and even (likely meaningless) death threats, but that's bit too serious for internet spaceships in any case. So good for you Tippia trying to voice your opinions in a nice way. But I'd still appreciate if you and other people wouldn't assume they're talking for all the community, when in fact they're not.


Tippia may not speak for you, but what tippia has said seems to be in line with what the vast majority of posters on the forums are saying.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:35:00 - [36]
 


Well written in words and tone.

+1

Originally by: Grimpak
hell and now we only have TippiaSad


I'm gonna miss Liang


Sad


Slade

Vic Tenrach
Minmatar
The Wild Bunch
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:37:00 - [37]
 

+1

Props to Tippia


--
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065&page=179#5367

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:38:00 - [38]
 

While I think Tippia made a very good effort of covering why people are bothered by CCP's immediate actions, I think it needs to be added that this new direction doesn't bode well for EVE's long term success. It suggests to me that EVE is more or less going to remain in it's current unfinished state. Rather than growing the userbase through added and improved content, we'll see a vanity first-person mode and a hat store. (I elabored on this here.)

I don't doubt that people will calm down about microtransactions and buying monocles. I just lament the fact that we're getting this instead of a rich, full world.

Cazeno
Caldari
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:39:00 - [39]
 

+1 Good job, thank you

Pashat
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:41:00 - [40]
 

I put the link ingame in both my chars' profile. Way to go, Tippia.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:42:00 - [41]
 

I agree, this is a well thought out and well presented argument.
I personally am against MT for eve at all, (barring plex, I can live with that)
But otherwise I pretty much totally agree with everything you say.

Basically what I have been trying to say, but much better worded.

I am going to have to stop using the word basically...

Wicked love
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [42]
 

+1

Terrante
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [43]
 


Signed. Supported

Good stuff Smile


HaRDOuSeK
Ghostbusters Co.
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:48:00 - [44]
 

+1

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:49:00 - [45]
 

Tippia did I every mention you are my Hero?


Viibl Triibl
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:50:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Viibl Triibl on 24/06/2011 19:56:11

Tippia's write-up is too long and ignores the practical considerations of a business and its customers. It focuses too much on the emotional outcry that players seem to be obsessed with, adding a lot of noise to the actual issues at hand.

It distracts from the reality of this situation, which is far simpler to define than the post would indicate:

- CQ removed functionality we were used to and it runs poorly; isn't cool enough to justify those things
- New items are too expensive, which comes off as both inept and insulting
- Patch broke a variety of things like implants, skill bonuses, module bonuses, etc.
- New content too far afield of the game's core: spaceship combat. CCP is using its work on WoD to appear to create new content for Eve, though it's just them re-purposing what they were making anyway and it's not really relevant
- Plan for MT content threatens player run economy, specifically in the realm of non-vanity item manufacture

That's the meat of it. Everything else about the "lie" and the memo is just emotional grandstanding. Had Incarna been more on target and better executed, no one would've cared what CCP discussed within its halls.

I'd add, for those who have not worked a corporate job before, that conversations about ways to increase revenue and shape consumer behavior are commonplace. Getting indignant about them is naive.

Should you be ****ed? Absolutely, about what they delivered. Not what they talked about in the months leading up to it, and certainly not about the perception that they did you a great emotional injustice.

Daxel Magmalloy
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:51:00 - [47]
 

+1

@CCP you will need to read all of this and pay attention please (...and yes you need to be bending over for the duration whether you like it or not, it is your own fault after all).

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:57:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Viibl Triibl
Tippia's write-up is too long and ignores the practical considerations of a business and its customers. It focuses too much on the emotional outcry that players seem to be obsessed with, adding a lot of noise to the actual issues at hand.

It distracts from the reality of this situation, which is far simpler to define than the post would indicate:

- CQ removed functionality we were used to and it runs poorly; isn't cool enough to justify those things
- New items are too expensive, which comes off as both inept and insulting
- Patch broke a variety of things like implants, skill bonuses, module bonuses, etc.
- New content too far afield of the game's core: spaceship combat. CCP is using its work on WoD to appear to create new content for Eve, though it's just them re-purposing what they were making anyway and it's not really relevant
- Plan for MT content threatens player run economy, specifically in the realm of non-vanity item manufacture

That's the meat of it. Everything else about the "lie" and the memo is just emotional grandstanding. Had Incarna been more on target and better executed, no one would've cared what CCP discussed within its halls.

I'd add, for those who have not worked a corporate job before, that conversations about ways to increase revenue and shape consumer behavior are commonplace. Getting indignant about them is naive.


I don't think Tippia's word is without merit, but your last two points carry much more significance for me.

If CCP was truly interested in growing EVE as a game, then they'd make that game, that core game, appeal to many more people. It's why it still blows my mind that for as cool as PvP and sovergnity is in game (the feature they keep trying to sell), it is enjoyed by no more than a quarter of the population at most. Less than 10% of EVE players are in 0.0.

And yet things like content, missions, STORY, are hardly anywhere to be seen. Their content department has been gutted, their mission tools and features have been abandoned one after the other (COSMOS, Epic Arcs, Faction Warfare, Exploration, Wormholes, Planetary Interaction) in various states of development. There is no narrative to experience, except for the one the players make themselves, and for most people, they read about it in EVE news, not partake of it themselves, because it's beyond the reach of most to be enjoyable.

But instead of building on that, you know, like every other MMO company does, we get hats. Oh, and they're $70. If this were TF2, I'd have a freakin' "towering pile of monocle" for that. Twice.

Medaron Dormu
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:04:00 - [49]
 

+1 Excellent points

Randal Eirikr
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:10:00 - [50]
 

She was way kinder than I was..

Female Face
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:12:00 - [51]
 

would read again
and again
and again
and again
and again
+10000000000000000000000000000 internetz points
If i had the aurum i would give it all to you

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:12:00 - [52]
 

Very well said Tipster. You got my write in vote for CSM7, want it or not.

Adelain Niska
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:28:00 - [53]
 

+1


Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:37:00 - [54]
 

CCP is too full of pride and ignorance to understand the linked document.

Gary Goat
Yakuza Corp
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:38:00 - [55]
 

+1

Very well written. Now lets see if CCP respond to it

Tom Peeping
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:46:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Teinyhr
So he ends his words in "You no longer have the confidence of the community."
I'd appreciate if you wouldn't put your words in my mouth, Tippia. CCP still has my vote of confidence, as it always has had.
[...]


To be fair, until 2-3 years ago, making money hasn't stopped them from delivering what was, for better or worse, one of the best if not the best MMOs of that day.
In spite of a slow but heavy shift from "game first, cash second" to "cash first, game second", it still is one of the better MMOs of today.
I would not dare to call it "the best" anymore though, not at this time.
And even calling it "one of the best" already starts feeling a tad bit forced.
The big problem is, CCP seems to be caught in a situation where external forces make them emphasize the "cash" part more and more at the detriment of the "game" part, and there's not much of a chance of it stopping, let alone reversing in time to have EVE remain in the top of desirable MMO experiences.
It might take a couple more years for sure, and they MIGHT pass this hurdle... or they might not.

The question is, how could they go from a "build it right and they will come, and they will pay for it handsomely" mentality towards an even dangerously close to a "build something shiny and advertise it heavily hoping somebody comes, and fleece them for all they got" approach in such a relatively short amount of time ?
And do we, as the OLD customers, still trust them to stop and go back ?
I sadly doubt that.

The big problem however is... do you really think they'll really miss us, financially speaking ? If anything, this would encourage them to push in the "morally wrong" direction even more to cover the lost revenue, and they MIGHT ACTUALLY PULL IT OFF.
If they can pull it off, and new (slightly more ADD-ed) blood replaces and surpasses the cashflow volume that the old guard could have ever provided, do you think they'll ever have a reason to go back ?

Sadly, this is a lose-lose situation for the players.
And not really much we can do about it.
Eve is not dead, it's not dying either, but it's turning into something we no longer like so much anymore.
Then again, what isn't ?


Careful Akita T... CCP obviously has the banhammer out and ready for those who are critical of them (despite the fact that they obviously don't care that people are legitimately upset). You've got to be one of the ones up next!


Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:49:00 - [57]
 

I read that earlier today and totally agree with it.

Many thanks Tippia for writing what most of us were too angry to write!

Butzis Azizora
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:54:00 - [58]
 

+1

Jon D'Agrvainio
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:00:00 - [59]
 

Very well written Tippia, you've articulated the finer points of the issue better than I ever could.

A +1 for you.

Ianus
Caldari
Geminus Gateway
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:30:00 - [60]
 

Thanks Tippia. Smile


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