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blankseplocked The way forward - let's give CCP a way out of this mess....
 
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Cunane Jeran
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:18:00 - [31]
 

This games monthly sub is already high.

Personally I've got nothing against *reasonable* microtransactions ($64 monocles do not fall into this catorgy) AS LONG AS it stays vanity. The second it becomes paying to get ahead, I'm out for good.

If it was reasonable I'd probably break out the bankcard for ship skins and choice clothing.

Vasha Rin
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:18:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Vasha Rin on 23/06/2011 20:21:45
For the subscription increase idea, I'd be willing to pay $1 USD extra at current state of the game, maybe $2 more after they deliver on some of the old promises. That's it though, no higher.

I think they should keep Aurum transactions limited to vanity items, honestly I don't care about the prices on those because they don't affect gameplay. I am against players buying victory - if CCP sells ships and modules that are better or tangibly different from what we buy in market, it will be damaging to in-game competition. It makes industry, trade and organization pointless, so this might as well be an arcade space shooter. If anything they should take micro transactions only to buy special, high-end BPOs, that way at least the products are made from in-game resources and sold openly on the in-game market.

I think a better way forward for CCP would be to grow the game by streamlining the UI, which is a turn off to anyone I've shown the game, and developing its own tie-in apps for sale. Maybe some people only want to play one aspect of EVE, like markets, scanning or planetary interaction. Official apps could provide direct access to these parts of the game in a way that benefits both current players (possibly on mobile devices when not at home PC), but to a new class of limited subscribers paying a smaller fee.

To get more revenue from regular EVE players, they could create content such as new regions of space, or exclusive missions for which players require a kind of pass. They could buy the passes with real money or ISK - so no one is left out. The passes could be tradeable on the market, expire after a time, say a month - but you can buy more and renew your access. I don't think real money should be used to directly buy more powerful ships or things, but maybe it would be okay if you just pay for access to the chance to earn something rare and interesting.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:19:00 - [33]
 

The best and simplest way to increase revenue is to make a game more people want to play. Incarna is a step in the right direction, but the way they handle MTs needs to be handled very carefully.

Juliette Red
K. Corp
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:20:00 - [34]
 

It honestly isnt that difficult IMO

Return the hanger view i.e. being able to sit in your ship (spinning as well) and if you want to use the NEX/char customisation you go into CQ. Buy clicking on a button to enter it, then you can wander off and do the vanity pish if you want to or once they develop more of the Incarna in-station stuff it will be an incentive for us old bastards to get out the ship and wander about in the station doing stuff, that part can only be done from being in station and not in a ship

Keeps people happy at present but also allows CCP a bit of breathing space to develop and refine on CQ but still allows people to go play about in CQ should they wish to use the NEX and other in station stuff.

And they need to remove 00 from the end of the cost of all the items in the NEX ASAP. I dont have an issue with people who want to use their cash for vanity items (although a bright blue tempest is strangely appealing) but FFS make is a resonable cost and not RL equivalent. Got to be one of the most ******ed pricings EVER.

Famble
Minmatar
Three's a Crowd
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:20:00 - [35]
 

Haven't logged in for months but it's funny that the first thought I had scanning the first page of general chat just now was, "Still the worst community in mmorpg history".

Pretty sure that a rate increase isn't wise in this environment.

Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:22:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Senshi Hawk
It baffles me to think that CCP may be losing money. I can't think of any other MMOs, or even console games, that give people the desire to subscribe multiple accounts at one time. Unless ISK is severely bloated and a large amount of people are buying PLEX in-game, a problem which is easily countered, then I don't see how this doesn't give CCP a financial advantage over other MMOs.


For me, I was running 3 accounts, the changes are making that a problem for me. Even when I turn off the space closet there is a notable increase in resources and as it stands now, CCP's stance is that turning off the space closet is only going to be allowed for a certain amount of time.

I was just about finished on a four-month build up to my 'next great adventure' in Eve and what has happened in the last week has put all of that plan on hold. I have stated my opinions in the comments section of the unsub entry for both of my alt accounts. I've moved all resources to my main account. If this is going to be the new 'norm' of Eve I will have to use the saved money to improve my computer. If it isn't better by then I will consider closing my main account as well.

TD;DR So yes, CCP is losing money from me, I'm paying a 1/3rd of what I was last month and I am not alone.

Salomei
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:22:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Salomei on 23/06/2011 20:22:44

EVE needs its first schism. One universe for the non-consensual PvP hardcores, one for the dress-up carebears. Anyone in the grey area gets to choose, maybe with a severely restricted opportunity to switch from one to the other if they're unhappy. Just completely separate universes, each with their own emergent character and different, very explicit expectations.

Nagasaki Warrior
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:48:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Originally by: Lelob
Edited by: Lelob on 23/06/2011 20:11:13
.... I see no reason why anyone should have to pay extra to play EVE for the sake of funding other projects while EVE continues to be put on the backburner, as evidenced by Incarna: Monocles Edition.

Seriously, wake up already.


Worth saying twice.


Only twice?

Junzar Hoth
Minmatar
Hootie Owl Round-Tip Scissors Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:48:00 - [39]
 

I donít see the problem with microtransactions so long as the stuff is only cosmetic. If it allows CCP to keep the price down then why not? We donít have to buy, although they may have to adjust the cost of goods for it to workShocked

If CCP wanted to up the cost of subscription i think they would have to bring back the hanger with the option to disembark as many have suggested. CQ every time you dock is so annoying and just pointless. if the price went up right now i would probably take a few months off and hope CCP came to their senses by then, or maybe someone has a spare room in their pos i could rent?Wink

Donít worry CCP i will walk in stations but please please please only when I want to. I can still buy delicious stuff at silly prices from the hanger so why not?

Bringing back the hanger solves so much! multiple account users need it! Do it Do it

Karthwritte
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:32:00 - [40]
 

To the OP.

Lemme tell you this, EVE its dying. Why? Because you started to not develop correctly, focusing in areas are not needed, and then thinking you can get a 7+ year game and completely giving it a 180į change. What we are seeing in these last days its that, first CCP its no longer caring about the allready existing costumer for a hypotetic future costumer you first dont have, and second, that you are completely blind about the scale of prices micro-transactions really should work.

Your first job as a developer was to perfect the gameplay and make it smooth as possible (within the parameters we all like) so there was no reason for existing players to quit. You should have invested more time-work-force into THE SPACESHIPS, more than anything else, because right now, that's what giving you milk.

You cannot pretend you are only a developer and you only sell games, like a 1 time experience like Portal, NO. You are a developer and at the same time you are giving a service. EVE Online its a sandbox, its made so players go inside, play, and interact massively across time with everyone else. So think about this like a restaurant or a school, you don't matter and are nothing right now without costumers that come regularly and make it good enough to bring more costumers in. You have made the costumers mad by putting a knife into their hearts, you have shown that you financially are doing something wrong and you have a thirst for money that at the end of the day its gonna scare your costumers.

There were plenty of things that were needed publicly and subconsciousnessly to PERFECT the game to a good point, but hey, you maybe didn't had the interest or the will to do it. You started to add things half way making it more difficult to actually make the game SOLID.

Another thing, MT model works perfectly in amusement park games. YES, those that you envy, people pay a little for something and then you move to another game when you find something new. This games are actually efficient financially because the development its not complicated and its efficient itself. Maybe they are called MMO but actually its more like a BMO where people rarely know each other or someone rarly makes something that matters and its so stupidly simple that people that are actually addicted to it (a addiction that exist right in video games, like smoking or drinking, videogames gives satisfaction. And many people cant handle it). EVE Online was a true MMO in Massive Scale and true sense. Its true that not everyone its made for its cut, but the community its allways the factor that make this game what it is. EVE Online is a space made to this community, like a growing herpes (or fungus) that find some places so cozy that they get stuck there.

Also another thing. CCP, you are FAIL. Its this HUNGER the effect of not controlling well your spending factors?
You have broke my esteem for you, just as to many other people. My friends no longer play this game and there's no reason for me to stay here and keep milking your pockets with my ca$h. My last pay has been the 20$ reactivation thing and its gonna be my last. Maybe you will find me playing while this 60 days (less ofc now) pass for finally tasting what was a awesome place and I have given almost 2 full years of my life (I am a post Empyrean Age 2008 player who had its sabbaticals from EVE) without regretting the things I made with my friends who thankfully I still have in facebook (so there's no need 4 you). Been a amazing experience but since you wanna kill it, go ahead, I will always remember the good times that your service and my friends have given to me.
When I want my Sci-Fi ships experience I will just play X3 and X Rebirth which I will pay once and I can enjoy it forever without giving a cent more.
If this its gonna be the direction that CCP its gonna follow, then have been a pleasure flying with you all, even those I never met but made this a amazing flight.
GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU THIS COMMUNITY

Kalaed Lyosk
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:43:00 - [41]
 

The problem with increasing subscription fees is PLEX. Many players have stockpiled large quantities of PLEX for various reasons. This was a primary factor in using a PLEX to Aurum exchange instead of ISK to Aurum directly. All of this existing PLEX in the game will allow many players to evade paying increased subscription fees for some time.

CCP created PLEX to increase current revenue at the cost of future revenue (and to combat unauthorized ISK for real money sales). The unintended, though entirely foreseeable, consequence is a delay on the full realization of any increased monthly subscription fees. CCP could combat this by reducing the game time extension value of a single PLEX, but that would be a whole new PR nightmare.

Karthwritte
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:01:00 - [42]
 

You want to know another thing CCP? Maybe if you lowered your price from 15$ to 10$ or 8$ you would had guaranteed twice subscriptions.

And sorry for making the mistake of typing costumer instead of costumers or any other typographical error.

Rion Deteisan
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:06:00 - [43]
 

Open-Source Vanity Items

1. Promote the Art staff for clothing to Art Approval Committee Members of clothing.
2. Give out your clothing design software to individuals and companies.
3. Companies and individuals now design vanity items.
4. CCP gets XX% vanity item sold in the NEX store.

In this model, outside companies and individuals can profit from vanity item sales. EVE players receive a great influx in clothing variations. Competition is created between companies and individuals who create vanity items; thus lowering the overall prices of the virtual goods. Lower prices = greater demand = greater sales volume.

To put it simply:
CCP makes RL money from providing an avenue for others to make RL money.


Complications:
1. Creating a user-friendly art application for creating vanity items. (a program that doesn't take a computer programmer to figure it out).
2. Reporting virtual good sales to clothing producers.
3. Approval of all vanity items before entering the game.






Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:27:00 - [44]
 

Hell I'd pay $20/month for both my accounts if I was paying for 2009 EVE and CCP before they decided that they needed a new player base and started releasing gimmicky rubbish

When I look back at what the past 24months ($360 per account) has given me I am shocked. As I own neither a maller nor a scorpion I am going to have to say nothing. For this I have had consistently broken patches and a client which is less stable than it was before.

This game is living off its past at the moment, at Apocrypha it was a truely incredible game, progressing at a fairly constant rate. Since then it has held constant at best.

CCP you don't have to bring out expansions every 6 months, in fact if you took everything from the last 2 years and put it alongside Apocrypha, or any prior expansion it would still look pathetic in comparison.

Le Sabre
Gallente
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Legion of Honor
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:53:00 - [45]
 

Well if CCP are looking for ways to increase their income from EvE, then they could try the 'tried and tested' approach of fixing incomplete/broken features (faction warfare etc) and polishing the features that are in good working order (flying around in general).

Ways to win more subs =
Fix null sec and sov warfare.
fix mining and ice mining (or at least make it interesting and fun ffs).
fix/finish the features that were released in previous expansions to Incarna, apoc was great, please iterate on it.
fix missions (by adding loads more and making them truly engaging).
Add more of the things and features people enjoyed and praised you for, adding rmt shops to a game that has a sub based payment method is so off putting to level headed consumers (remember we are in a global recession atm, your marketing geniuses must have forgot this).

Ways to lose subs =
Consistently ignore or forget to fix very old bugs (although you guys are getting better and doing something about it now).
Adding new content in 'portions' before existing content portions have had a chance to grow and develop and be completed as a full feature.
Zig-zagging from one feature type to another with very little to link them together, example: we went from figuring out T3 in wormholes, then to defending space from incursions, now to walking around evebay shopping for monocles.

Not ranting, just my two cents on the way things are and my views on what they should of done. Wink

Nair Alderau
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:57:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Nair Alderau on 23/06/2011 22:58:49
For those of you who are saying CCP is swimming in money and should use more of it to develop eve...

Fetch a calculator.

Multiply a yearly subscription fee with the number of eve pilots (make a guess). Be aware that second and third alts on the same account wouldnt count.
That is basically their income (up until now, PLEX had no effect - as they lost on subscriptions for each plex bought, with only minor exceptions)

Now divide this income by 100.000 (Ä). Thats a low-ball estimate of what one of their developers/employees will cost them. Mind you, this is not the money those employees get as their paycheck. Its also paying for their desk, their office-space (rent), taxes and other government deductions, etc.
It really is a low-ball figure.

Now you are left with an upper-bound of people CCP could employ to work on eve. Thats if they dont want to do anything else with the money (very unlikely and also stupid) and neglecting other costs (like their server-infrastructure).

Think about how complex a game Eve is. Id argue that it rivals or surpasses WoW in complexity. Yet Blizzard has sth like 10 million WoW subscribers and (therefore) a much larger workforce. (while taking much more of the cake for themselves, btw) I am actually surprised that CCP manages a project of this size with a shoe-string-budget of somewhere about 10 million $ a year (maybe a bit more).

I have no problem with CCP trying to expand the player base (which is a plus in the sandbox, anyway). Do I think station-walking adds much? Not yet, maybe in the future. But I accept that CCP needs to do SOMETHING. Or Eve will continue to be developed very slowly. Not because CCP is dumb, but because they are lacking ressources. If their player-base were only half of what they have, they would have shut down the whole thing years ago. (or at least stopped developing new content, even at a slow pace)

Stop asking for things you cannot get. Code for a complex MMOG doesnt get written overnight by a dozen people. Especially if its a one-of a kind MMOG, where you cant license code from elsewhere, CCP has to code it themselves. No middleware developers for internet spaceships...


Mouthy Misses
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:01:00 - [47]
 

i not paying a penny more for a game which has gone further downhill.

ccp are forcing more crap on us and dont take into account what we think or feel

why the hell should we pay them more

if a dude made u car slightly slower every time he did a service on it would u pay him more hoping he would get better at it? **** no!

Zoltar
Caldari
Perdu Opus
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:07:00 - [48]
 

They do have a way out, its called type a Resume and put in applications for another company.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:12:00 - [49]
 

I'd be happy to pay an increased subscription fee, if that means I get rid of RM transactions. I kind of doubt CCP would choose that though.

I don't know if we are at a crossroad, thats an assumption you make. CCP could just go ahead with a watered down version of their original plan, and otherwise act as nothing changed. I find that most likely to be honest.

CCP never said they need extra income, a lot of assumptions are at play. Personally I think CCP act irrational, I have no clue what their intentions are.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:18:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Nair Alderau
I have no problem with CCP trying to expand the player base (which is a plus in the sandbox, anyway). Do I think station-walking adds much? Not yet, maybe in the future. But I accept that CCP needs to do SOMETHING. Or Eve will continue to be developed very slowly. Not because CCP is dumb, but because they are lacking ressources. If their player-base were only half of what they have, they would have shut down the whole thing years ago. (or at least stopped developing new content, even at a slow pace)


That's 63 mil yearly, at 350k subscribers. Not counting PLEX hoarding (i.e. look at Jita offerings).

Average salary:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/CCP-Games-Salaries-E159347.htm

Subscribers:

http://www.mmodata.net/

500 employees (guesstimation, couldn't find a precise source):

http://www.arcticstartup.com/2009/10/26/ccp-games-icelands-pride

Remember that nowhere near that amount is working on EVE. Not even close. Even so, at your proposed cost per employee they are not having issues to fund EVE Online, it's development, and whatever else they're working on.

It's not resources they're lacking. Just priorities and a sense of position in the MMO marketplace. Which used to be one of EVE's biggest strengths.

Mouthy Misses
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:21:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
I'd be happy to pay an increased subscription fee, if that means I get rid of RM transactions.


why would u say that, eve costs too much as it is, its one of if not THE most expensive subs based game

which in the past they have justified with "adding fresh new content with 2 big expansions a year"

not adding pointless **** that doesnt effect the gameplay but makes the game run like **** burn ur pc in a blaze of glory, possibly allow people to buy a win and ignore the forums when we cry outrage

WHY would u want to pay more? be careful what u ask for or u might get micro transactions AND higher subs

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:31:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Mouthy Misses
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
I'd be happy to pay an increased subscription fee, if that means I get rid of RM transactions.


why would u say that, eve costs too much as it is, its one of if not THE most expensive subs based game

which in the past they have justified with "adding fresh new content with 2 big expansions a year"

not adding pointless **** that doesnt effect the gameplay but makes the game run like **** burn ur pc in a blaze of glory, possibly allow people to buy a win and ignore the forums when we cry outrage

WHY would u want to pay more? be careful what u ask for or u might get micro transactions AND higher subs


I play games because they are different than real life. I also watch movies or read books because they are different. The last thing I need is to be constantly brought away from the illusion.

I don't need to be careful about what I ask for. MTs are by definiton a no go for me. But I'd pay a higher subscription if I don't have to watch my bank account every time I open my wallet.

I cancelled a lot of game subscriptions because they went the MT route, and EvE is no different. If CCP wants to do the same thing as everyone else, that is their choice. I started liking EvE because they had some original visions, which unfortunately they seem to have lost.


EvE cost a lot, and they add microtransactions, and they have lately released **** expansions. CCP really have very little to barter with. Even the ****tiest MMOs out there is starting to look like gold in comparison.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:34:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Nagasaki Warrior
Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Originally by: Lelob
Edited by: Lelob on 23/06/2011 20:11:13
.... I see no reason why anyone should have to pay extra to play EVE for the sake of funding other projects while EVE continues to be put on the backburner, as evidenced by Incarna: Monocles Edition.

Seriously, wake up already.


Worth saying twice.


Only twice?


Trice. :D

Unfortunately CCP needs money not because they will invest it in EVE Online, but because they have to sustain a growing corporation (over 700 people) and new IPs like WOD and Dust. They seek revenue so that they keep their ass intact, else they have to fire people. It has nothing to do with the game and will not benefit EVE in any way!!!

They grew a lot after 2006 and now we pay that price. Once a bureaucracy is established its almost impossible to dissolve it. CCP has grown a lot and no longer connects with EVE as before, hell many people at CCP don't even play EVE, I am sure.

Hroya
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:40:00 - [54]
 

I wouldnt call an expansion that is only playable by a lower number of current subscribers due to computer requirements a logical choice to increase income.

I wouldnt call items for vanity at prices equall to 3-4 month of subscription a logical choice to increase income eihter.

Accesabillity determines income stream and growth in income.
Expanding vanity store with items that are more reasonably affordable yet do NOT affect gameplay would be a step in the right direction.
Work on incarna to give more options to disable funtions without compromising on performance that severe so that more people can actually play it would be another.

It's illogical to expect people to fork out a couple of hundred bucks to upgrade/renew their computer without choice in order to play the game and thus create income for the company.

A likely tough choice to make would also be to decide on getting rid of high profile people who use not so nice out of game resources to run their game and breaking a couple of rules yet get away with it due to their expanded wallets.

The working class trying to get ends meet and use a virtuall enviroment to endulge themself with the luxury of choices and consequences to please their desire of freedom gets shafted every day, everywhere around the globe.
Dont let that sink into this enviroment and make the choice of pleasing the masses and not just the few. It's an unsustainable endevour and you'll be selling out your vision.




Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:40:00 - [55]
 

As a customer, I would pay a couple extra bucks per account. At a five dollar increase, I'd be one paid account maximum, but I'd still be personally okay with that. I am not okay with any non-vanity micro (or macro) transactions. The player based economy is key.

However, I really don't think CCP is focused on me, as a current customer who prefers the subscription model.

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:41:00 - [56]
 

Steps to be taken:
-FULL stop on non-vanity arum/MT development
-OFfer more development manpower to the spaceship content
-SHIfT out of secrecy mode and publish what is actually in the works.

Without all of the above, any promisory replies are... the bold.

El 1974
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:11:00 - [57]
 

For me this game is already too expensive if I had to pay a subscription. It's just not interesting enough the way it is right now and the expansions never add much to the game. I paid a few months because I expected I could regularly make enough isk to buy a plex.
After a few months I expected to have to buy a subscription for real $$ regularly, but making enough isk proved much easier than I thought once I had more skills and assets. I can easily afford to pay double the isk for a plex. If there was something worth spending my isk on I'd buy it. I'm not going to buy a 1.4B monocle and fly around with it.

ExploringTheGalaxy
Posted - 2011.06.24 20:14:00 - [58]
 

I think fixing a few long-standing gameplay issues would go a long way for CCP. Fixing hybrids would only take a few weeks. That should be what we're going for here, solutions to real problems that we've been dealing with for a while now.


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