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blankseplocked Dear CCP, microtransactions don't belong in a sandbox
 
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glepp
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:27:00 - [1]
 

Dear CCP, please come to your senses.

You have over the last 8 or so years created and developed something unique. A pvp sandbox with no scripted content and no endgame bosses where players are free to create their own world and destiny. You even brought this up as a major selling point in your acclaimed "Butterfly effect trailer", and it has been the major draw to eve for a lot of your playerbase. This playerbase has also grown steadily over the years, and what you have created is unique in the MMO world.

With the leaking of your internal memo regarding microtransactions, and i am assuming for this post that it's real, you are moving away from the sandbox. It seems you don't realize you are about to ruin what sets your game apart from others. When CCP Soundwave (assuming once again that the document is real) says that he prefers Microtransactions for the games he plays, as it allows him to better choose how to spend his time and money, he is comparing the sandbox to scripted event games, and forgetting what it is that makes Eve unique.

Basically, bringing MT into eve would ruin the sanbox. Consider two kids playing in a sandbox, fighting over some castles with the shovels they have. Then one, who has a super-rich daddy, buys a bulldozer. Do you think the other kid is going to keep playing? It's all cool in LOTRO, where you're fighting some scripted boss, and the benefit is only for you and your corpmates to noones disadvantage. Not so in the sandbox.

So CCP, i love your game and have invested over two years of my time and money into it. Please don't break the sandbox for me. Vanity items are not a problem. If someone wants to spend 20 dollars on a painted scorpion that i can blow up, that's their problem. But if they can buy better ammo to shoot me with for RL cash, I fear it will break the game.

Best regards
glepp

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:28:00 - [2]
 

first of all, microtransactions for other than vanity items donīt belong in a subscribtion game

Doravos
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:55:00 - [3]
 

If they were to REPLACE subscriptions with microtransactions, I'd be fine with it, even for a sandbox.

But having both is just wrong.

Ayame Yubari
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:11:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: glepp
Dear CCP, please come to your senses.
Basically, bringing MT into eve would ruin the sanbox. Consider two kids playing in a sandbox, fighting over some castles with the shovels they have. Then one, who has a super-rich daddy, buys a bulldozer. Do you think the other kid is going to keep playing? It's all cool in LOTRO, where you're fighting some scripted boss, and the benefit is only for you and your corpmates to noones disadvantage. Not so in the sandbox.
glepp


The effect it would have on PvP would be huge, agreed. But even in PvE the guys with the most money would deal the most damage or tank a lot better than the rest, so they would still have the advantage. Sooner or later, guilds will have some miminal requirements as to what a character needs to have aquired through micro-transactions, and they will certainly prefer people who have been "dedicated enough" to deck themselves out with gear bought in the cash shop.

Jitorius
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:27:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Jitorius on 23/06/2011 09:27:47
Even if they changed from subscription to MT, it would change the game - atm, (almost) all content is produced via industrial chains and can't easily be injected by RL money.
If you want to keep the sandbox, you need to keep the affecting factors inside the sandbox, without any real game affecting items or effects (standings..) available for AUR.

Zverofaust
Gallente
Ascetic Virtues
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:30:00 - [6]
 

Guys, microtransactions have been in the game for a long time. Have you forgotten about PLEX? The ability to spend RL cash on some PLEX, sell them for ingame ISK, and then use that ISK to buy shiny faction or T3 ships or w/e has been around for quite awhile and offers far, far more benefit than any of the things CCP is allegedly planning for the AUR store.

Jitorius
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:54:00 - [7]
 

But PLEX hasn't introduced stuff into the game that hasn't been created - it will only be worth the ISK that someone pays for it (and which he had to generate before), and everything he's gonna buy for the ISK will have to be player generated, too.

If they go on handing out stuff for RL money that's not generated ingame, they're killing the "closed sandbox" scenario.

glepp
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Zverofaust
Guys, microtransactions have been in the game for a long time. Have you forgotten about PLEX? The ability to spend RL cash on some PLEX, sell them for ingame ISK, and then use that ISK to buy shiny faction or T3 ships or w/e has been around for quite awhile and offers far, far more benefit than any of the things CCP is allegedly planning for the AUR store.

No.

PLEX lets the kids stay longer in the sandbox without admission fees. Yes, it can be traded in the sandbox, but doesn't bring in anything new.

MT lets them bring in stuff from outside with RL money.

If CCP just wants more content, they can add that without charging RL money for it.

Teala Te'Jir
Amarr
Mr. Benjamin Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:24:00 - [9]
 

Adding buy-to-win items in the MT will kill this game.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:27:00 - [10]
 

GTFO MT!

Flak89
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:28:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Flak89 on 23/06/2011 10:30:03
Edited by: Flak89 on 23/06/2011 10:29:09
What's the problem with it then?
What is it that is so "dangerous" to the game?

Please, enlighten me...

Edit: oh so you can buy "win items", show it then?

Solosky
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:31:00 - [12]
 

Miscrotransactions - yes, macrotransactions* - I doubt.

* I wouldn't call $80 purchase of 4 plexes to buy monocle "microtransaction".

Wanda Wong
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:35:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ayame Yubari
Originally by: glepp
Dear CCP, please come to your senses.
Basically, bringing MT into eve would ruin the sanbox. Consider two kids playing in a sandbox, fighting over some castles with the shovels they have. Then one, who has a super-rich daddy, buys a bulldozer. Do you think the other kid is going to keep playing? It's all cool in LOTRO, where you're fighting some scripted boss, and the benefit is only for you and your corpmates to noones disadvantage. Not so in the sandbox.
glepp


The effect it would have on PvP would be huge, agreed. But even in PvE the guys with the most money would deal the most damage or tank a lot better than the rest, so they would still have the advantage. Sooner or later, guilds will have some miminal requirements as to what a character needs to have aquired through micro-transactions, and they will certainly prefer people who have been "dedicated enough" to deck themselves out with gear bought in the cash shop.


You are completely missing the point of training skills by suggesting that it's alright, Better yet, ... alredy in several posts on news forums i've been reading there's a ban on any and all people buying the "Vanity items"

As such i would suggest all corportaions followd that lead and make those vanity items a dead item.

Pneumon Blaster
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:35:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Doravos
If they were to REPLACE subscriptions with microtransactions, I'd be fine with it, even for a sandbox.

But having both is just wrong.


pretty much this ^^

IskPlease
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Teala Te'Jir
Adding buy-to-win items in the MT will kill this game.

Damn right it will. The moment an item that provides an advantage in the space part of the game shows up in the NeX and isn't available through the market they can kiss my accounts goodbye.

Leisen
Caldari
Interrobang Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:39:00 - [16]
 

Confirming MT does not belong in EVE, a sandbox style game, or subscription MMO.

Chas Davia
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:40:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Doravos
If they were to REPLACE subscriptions with microtransactions, I'd be fine with it, even for a sandbox.


+1

Wanda Wong
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:41:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jitorius
But PLEX hasn't introduced stuff into the game that hasn't been created - it will only be worth the ISK that someone pays for it (and which he had to generate before), and everything he's gonna buy for the ISK will have to be player generated, too.

If they go on handing out stuff for RL money that's not generated ingame, they're killing the "closed sandbox" scenario.


Not only this, but also the fact that you only have the option of paying with that Aurum is plain mad,.. Put an ISK price on the useless junk and i'm sure a good portion of the people would roll off their chairs seeing what they can use the money for in a better way.

Also i would say that putting items in a game would mean that they should be accessable. Seriousely,... $70,- for a friggin eye glass? i don't call that accessible. Better yet,.. it's plain dirty as the only people who would ahve access to that kind of stuff yould be the folks that either have to much time on their hands and can affort to play eve the better part of the day, or the folks that have a heft wallet in their back pocket,... either way, considdering their putting 90% of their player base on the sideline is just wrong.

Not only that,.. but right now it's only the eyeglass and clothes,... where will it end,.. what will it be next???

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:43:00 - [19]
 

The company is being guided by MBAīs who vision is only their next bonus, we the people are now the pixels...

eve: from game to con trick



Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:45:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tamahra
first of all, microtransactions donīt belong in a subscription game


FYP



San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:45:00 - [21]
 

No more Cash money from me ever CCP!

Over my dead cold body,

that's $360 a year gone & I'd bet my balls I am not alone.

I wonder if they'll even come out ahead after this little debacle.

HypperSK
Amarr
BV Academia
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:47:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: glepp
Dear CCP, please come to your senses.

You have over the last 8 or so years created and developed something unique. A pvp sandbox with no scripted content and no endgame bosses where players are free to create their own world and destiny. You even brought this up as a major selling point in your acclaimed "Butterfly effect trailer", and it has been the major draw to eve for a lot of your playerbase. This playerbase has also grown steadily over the years, and what you have created is unique in the MMO world.

With the leaking of your internal memo regarding microtransactions, and i am assuming for this post that it's real, you are moving away from the sandbox. It seems you don't realize you are about to ruin what sets your game apart from others. When CCP Soundwave (assuming once again that the document is real) says that he prefers Microtransactions for the games he plays, as it allows him to better choose how to spend his time and money, he is comparing the sandbox to scripted event games, and forgetting what it is that makes Eve unique.

Basically, bringing MT into eve would ruin the sanbox. Consider two kids playing in a sandbox, fighting over some castles with the shovels they have. Then one, who has a super-rich daddy, buys a bulldozer. Do you think the other kid is going to keep playing? It's all cool in LOTRO, where you're fighting some scripted boss, and the benefit is only for you and your corpmates to noones disadvantage. Not so in the sandbox.

So CCP, i love your game and have invested over two years of my time and money into it. Please don't break the sandbox for me. Vanity items are not a problem. If someone wants to spend 20 dollars on a painted scorpion that i can blow up, that's their problem. But if they can buy better ammo to shoot me with for RL cash, I fear it will break the game.

Best regards
glepp


Agree !

Frecky Lint
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:07:00 - [23]
 

Totally supported, but sad to see/realize.

Xavier Liche
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:10:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Solosky
Miscrotransactions - yes, macrotransactions* - I doubt.

* I wouldn't call $80 purchase of 4 plexes to buy monocle "microtransaction".


Is everyone in this game too poor to buy plex with isk?



celebro
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:23:00 - [25]
 

No MT to buy items that give advantage in game. I just wonder why this came up. Have ccp said anything further about MT.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:25:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 23/06/2011 21:48:09


Microtransactions have been in the sandbox for quite a few years already.




Let's look at this logically.

If any of those items or services would be available FOR ISK, would you still scream and shout ?
A lot of the screaming and shouting crowd would have absolutely no problem if stuff would cost ISK instead of AUR.
Does that describe your feelings adequately or not ?

For now, we will be assuming the above is proven true, and you would not mind having any of these items/services for ISK.
Speaking pragmatically, what's stopping Player X from simply buying some PLEX from CCP, selling it for ISK and purchasing those same services or items ?
From Player X's perspective, he just paid $$$ for a service.

Now, let's say those services are paid for in AUR.
Sure, some people might actually pay cash directly to get AUR and buy the stuff.
But what about Player A, who actually has the ISK, but doesn't want to spend any extra RL cash ?
Well, he simply buys a few PLEX with ISK from another player (like, our Player X from above), and pays for the service/item.
From Player A's perspective, he just paid ISK for a service/item.

...

So the only logical conclusion would be that you oppose the EXISTENCE of those services/items at all in the first place, whether sold for AUR or ISK, it doesn't actually make a difference for you, so you're not ACTUALLY against microtransactions.

Or, alternatively, it could mean that you oppose the very action of being allowed to sell GTC/PLEX for ISK, and are so totally against this microtransaction type that has existed in EVE for years, but for some reason you're only speaking against it now.

...

Which one of those is it ?
And why ?


If you're mad at something, at least KNOW what you're mad about.



Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:47:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tamahra
first of all, microtransactions for other than vanity items donīt belong in a subscribtion game

Pretty much this.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:49:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Teala Te'Jir
Adding buy-to-win items in the MT will kill this game.

CCP caring more about their Twilight MMO and being bored with fixing Eve is already killing this game.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:51:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Zverofaust

<same bull ****, different thread>



You have been repeating this same crap for days, when you know damn well it has been proven fallicious on a number of levels.


General Xenophon
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:55:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: General Xenophon on 23/06/2011 21:57:12
Edited by: General Xenophon on 23/06/2011 21:55:20
Originally by: Zverofaust
Guys, microtransactions have been in the game for a long time. Have you forgotten about PLEX? The ability to spend RL cash on some PLEX, sell them for ingame ISK, and then use that ISK to buy shiny faction or T3 ships or w/e has been around for quite awhile and offers far, far more benefit than any of the things CCP is allegedly planning for the AUR store.


Do you know what a microtransaction even is? A plex wasn't a microtransactions by any definition. It's playtime for a pay per month game. Once it become a currency THEN it became a transaction, albeit a macrotransaction at these current prices for items.

No reason other than greed to have an 'item shop' in a pay per month game. It's totally bat**** nuts and greedy greedy greedy.

Someone who pays for content per month via a monthly fee is paying for access to all of the content. Someone who plays a 'free' game with an item shop, gives up that right, and instead has to utilize the item shop or pay for other aspects -however that game does it- to gain access or more easily gain access to the full content of the game. Mixing the two models of free to play with pay to play is like marrying your sister... but hey maybe that's OK in CCP land... who knows...


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