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Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:26:00 - [2071]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 21:26:10


Im going to gank a hulk, feck it.


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:27:00 - [2072]
 

Those new turrets really are nice, aren't they?

Damn shame.

Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:27:00 - [2073]
 

:( because of this ccp, I seen multiple good players scrap their toons... what have you done ccp!?!?!? Your killing yourself if you continue on this path!

I personly don't care, but when your making my friends quit the game... well you should know

Dr Deus
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:27:00 - [2074]
 

(First and last post on 3Y main).

The sad thing about this memo is the clear disconnect between CCP and the community. I used to think we were in the same boat, that we were evolving together, sharing a vision and playing/building a fantasy world in a partnership between players and developers.

Of course I understand that a game costs money, and I gladly pay. That's my end of the partnership. CCP's end is to run a business to develop and evolve the game. We had different roles, but there was mutual respect and trust.

However, this is clearly not the case. In the eyes of this memo, I am merely a consumer to be monetized. That's it. Nothing more. This is hugely disappointing, and both CCP and players are worse off because of it.

I wish both players and CCP the best, because the potential is fantastic. For me however, the sensible thing is to move on.

Be excellent to each other. Fly hard. O7

Signing off
D2

Jo Blot
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:27:00 - [2075]
 

Originally by: Khysanth Onyx
lol yeah the inevitable outcome is the death of a million people, this is what I'm talking about


If you were, you probably wouldn't want to be drawing attention to it with "lol".


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:29:00 - [2076]
 

Originally by: Dr Deus
(First and last post on 3Y main).

The sad thing about this memo is the clear disconnect between CCP and the community. I used to think we were in the same boat, that we were evolving together, sharing a vision and playing/building a fantasy world in a partnership between players and developers.

Of course I understand that a game costs money, and I gladly pay. That's my end of the partnership. CCP's end is to run a business to develop and evolve the game. We had different roles, but there was mutual respect and trust.

However, this is clearly not the case. In the eyes of this memo, I am merely a consumer to be monetized. That's it. Nothing more. This is hugely disappointing, and both CCP and players are worse off because of it.

I wish both players and CCP the best, because the potential is fantastic. For me however, the sensible thing is to move on.

Be excellent to each other. Fly hard. O7

Signing off
D2



The day they invented the CSM was a sign they where out of touch.

The CSM represents 14% or less of the player base (last voter turn out).


Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:30:00 - [2077]
 

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Heads up as was news at least to me. Sounds like nice thing to look forward to after this clusterf...


sry to disappoint you, but Infinity MMO has been halted for the benefit of making an engine out of it first. There is no content, no game design, its not even started yet.
What you see there are tech-demos at best, even if they started fulltime now it would only come in 2 years at best, with a team of 50ppl.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:31:00 - [2078]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 21:32:02
Meh, im standing at the Rens DOCK, staring at my Vargur...


Doesn't quite feel the same Awe now :(




You know all those people that cry we have MT today via PLEX? well that's not true, sure you can buy items, but that doesnt autmatically mean you can USE them, sure I can buy a TITAN with purchased PLEX, but I still cant use it lol

I have to train those skills..


Saskie Castillo
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:31:00 - [2079]
 

Originally by: Miilla


The day they invented the CSM was a sign they where out of touch.

The CSM represents 14% or less of the player base (last voter turn out).




The CSM probably represent more than 14% of the player base' opinions, but 86% don't care, and those 86% probably don't mind or are stupid enough to get monetized.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:32:00 - [2080]
 

Edited by: Darveses on 23/06/2011 21:33:02
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Miilla

I think we need a new signiture for everybody.


"FREE HELICITY"

QFT.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:32:00 - [2081]
 

If only Incarna had been bars with Poker.

Erichan
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:32:00 - [2082]
 

Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:32:51
The CSM may have been voted on by 14% but that doesn't mean they aren't looking out for the rest of us. I am fairly certain based on the comments here and on Failheap that the CSM was either forbidden to comment via NDA or never exposed to the majority of this nightmare.


Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:32:00 - [2083]
 

Originally by: Brujo Loco
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cyber Duck
Linkage

Quote:
Breaking News! - Radical changes to EVE Online character development allow you to train characters faster and get into action from the day one!



What the **** is this.


Woa, CCP has really gone off their minds, why are they even offering skill points boosts for? so people will buy skill point sets now? wth? Oh the Rage!!!


Play for free is one of the bullet points too.

Technovar
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:36:00 - [2084]
 

Originally by: Gurgeh Murat
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Gurgeh Murat

I can happily flit from World of Tanks to Champions online. FREE TO PLAY GAMES.





Bold the bit CCP will hear. "Oh cool he agrees, F2P ftw"



Absolutely correct good sir. EvE is turning into P2P MT game.

Pay to play, or Micro transactions. Choose one.

CCP want to have their cake and eat it.

It will choke them.

Good day to you sir.


No, more than that. Subscription plus in-game transactions. (They're not micro at these prices, can't call them that anymore.) They can't go F2P - how does skill training work then?

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:36:00 - [2085]
 

Damn, one day at work and we go from 23 to 70 pages already. Good times ...

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:37:00 - [2086]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy


Play for free is one of the bullet points too.



LIES; Free to PLAY is not really true.

It is NOT FREE, sure its free to LOOK AROUND, but if you want to actually PLAY you have to buy stuff.

Free to PLAY is a bad description, perhaps should be flagged to trading standards bodies.

FREE TO VIEW more like.

Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:37:00 - [2087]
 

Originally by: Erichan
Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:32:51
The CSM may have been voted on by 14% but that doesn't mean they aren't looking out for the rest of us. I am fairly certain based on the comments here and on Failheap that the CSM was either forbidden to comment via NDA or never exposed to the majority of this nightmare.




I think you are correct. I am sure the CSM (if aware) warned CCP this might generate something of a reaction.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:37:00 - [2088]
 

Originally by: Darveses
Edited by: Darveses on 23/06/2011 21:33:02
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Miilla

I think we need a new signiture for everybody.


"FREE HELICITY"

QFT.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



+1

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:38:00 - [2089]
 

Originally by: Technovar
They can't go F2P - how does skill training work then?


They could go F2P but only paid accounts would get skill training. Of course that's a bit of a slippery slope as the next step would be different grades of skill training...

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:38:00 - [2090]
 

Originally by: Darveses
Edited by: Darveses on 23/06/2011 21:33:02
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Miilla

I think we need a new signiture for everybody.


"FREE HELICITY"

QFT.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Sigged.

Illuminaty
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:38:00 - [2091]
 

Edited by: Illuminaty on 23/06/2011 21:39:38
I don't think Incarna is a PROBLEM, but I think it was an issue that they ended up spending far more resources on it than they expected, which resulted in limited spaceship content. It seems like CCP understands the debt they have incurred on the spaceship side of the game and the winter expansion seems like it is intended to address this.

I think the MT shop has the danger of drawing resources away from core game content. This wouldn't be a massive issue, except that CCP already has a massive spaceship content debt on the core game, and the core game is what their existing cash flow is based on. Relaxing your grip on a bird in the hand to go chasing after two in the bush is just plain dumb.

However, if CCP can focus on creating a good spaceship based winter expansion to pay off their spaceship content debt, then they have a chance to use the MT store income to pay for MT store items, they should be able to steer their way though this.

This of course assumes they don't lose their minds and start chasing MT store income at the expense of their current income flow. Vanity items (if made with development $ that is paid for by vanity item sales) won't harm spaceship EVE (so long as spaceship EVE $ subs pay for spaceship EVE content). The MT store could even help spaceship EVE since re-building the spaceship models to allow them to sell re-skins could help pay for new and improved base skins for the non-MT spaceship EVE.

However, selling power-boosting items in a subscription based MMO is going to be problematic. Power-booster items are a required evil in a F2P game (which EVE is not). Something has to pay the bills. Subscriptions pays the bills, adding power-boosters is simply an unneeded evil.

Needlessly degrading your product for the sake of increased profits is the definition of cutting corners. It makes it easier and easier for a competitor to take you out. Businesses are in the business of staying in business, that requires them to make money. Making money doesn't mean you can stay in business though. You can fire all your developers and no be able to maintain or make new product and be highly profitable until it finally falls apart and the company ends up in the dustbin of history.

Of course, I'm sure many of the people pushing this greed-is-good line fully expect to kill the company long term. It can be very profitable to run a company into the ground, and making profits is a great means of allowing you to jump ship to another company that can be profitably run into the ground. Just so long as you don't have to do the work to build the company and so long as you are long gone before the effects of the cannibalization really set in. I mean, that is what corporate raiders like Gordon Gekko did, you know, the guy on the cover of the news letter.

cjacey
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:38:00 - [2092]
 

wishes he could do a long running jump over the rail quick enough to get away from the sinking ship of CQ

Technovar
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:39:00 - [2093]
 

Originally by: Cunane Jeran
If this turns out to not be a work of fiction, its a deal breaker. I wouldn't touch this game again and I'd also make sure other people I know don't make the mistake of starting it up tbh.


The Fearless issue? Not fiction. The unedited copy's been leaked elsewhere.

Erichan
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:41:00 - [2094]
 

Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:43:07
Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:42:21
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
Originally by: Erichan
Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:32:51
The CSM may have been voted on by 14% but that doesn't mean they aren't looking out for the rest of us. I am fairly certain based on the comments here and on Failheap that the CSM was either forbidden to comment via NDA or never exposed to the majority of this nightmare.




I think you are correct. I am sure the CSM (if aware) warned CCP this might generate something of a reaction.


Seleene specifically says she and the rest of the CSM were not shown any of this before hand in her blog. (don't have link but will get and edit it in).

http://seleenes-sandbox.blogspot.com//

"One thing I want to be crystal clear on though - the CSM was NOT asked or consulted on any of the prices in the Noble Exchange store. We asked and were told that they were not finalized. We floated a few thoughts at the summit, heads nodded a bit and that was the end of it. So wherever this marketing scheme came from, the CSM did not play a part in it (even tho we wanted to). As CSM Chairman Mittani just said on Twitter:

"NeX is insane. My Lowe costs less than a monocle and fires ****-bullets in WoT. They didn't ask for price advice. Oops!"

Futile Rhetoric
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:41:00 - [2095]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
Originally by: Erichan
Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:32:51
The CSM may have been voted on by 14% but that doesn't mean they aren't looking out for the rest of us. I am fairly certain based on the comments here and on Failheap that the CSM was either forbidden to comment via NDA or never exposed to the majority of this nightmare.




I think you are correct. I am sure the CSM (if aware) warned CCP this might generate something of a reaction.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1532949&page=5#135

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:41:00 - [2096]
 

Originally by: Illuminaty
This of course assumes they don't lose their minds and start chasing MT store income at the expense of their current income flow. Vanity items (if made with development $ that is paid for by vanity item sales) won't harm spaceship EVE (so long as spaceship EVE $ subs pay for spaceship EVE content). The MT store could even help spaceship EVE since re-building the spaceship models to allow them to sell re-skins could help pay for new and improved base skins for the non-MT spaceship EVE.

However, selling power-boosting items in a subscription based MMO is going to be problematic. Power-booster items are a required evil in a F2P game (which EVE is not). Something has to pay the bills. Subscriptions pays the bills, adding power-boosters is simply an unneeded evil.

Needlessly degrading your product for the sake of increased profits is the definition of cutting corners. It makes it easier and easier for a competitor to take you out. Businesses are in the business of staying in business, that requires them to make money. Making money doesn't mean you can stay in business though. You can fire all your developers and no be able to maintain or make new product and be highly profitable until it finally falls apart and the company ends up in the dustbin of history.

Of course, I'm sure many of the people pushing this greed-is-good line fully expect to kill the company long term. It can be very profitable to run a company into the ground, and making profits is a great means of allowing you to jump ship to another company that can be profitably run into the ground. Just so long as you don't have to do the work to build the company and so long as you are long gone before the effects of the cannibalization really set in. I mean, that is what corporate raiders like Gordon Gekko did, you know, the guy on the cover of the news letter.


Good post.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:42:00 - [2097]
 

Originally by: Erichan
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
Originally by: Erichan
Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 21:32:51
The CSM may have been voted on by 14% but that doesn't mean they aren't looking out for the rest of us. I am fairly certain based on the comments here and on Failheap that the CSM was either forbidden to comment via NDA or never exposed to the majority of this nightmare.




I think you are correct. I am sure the CSM (if aware) warned CCP this might generate something of a reaction.


Seleene specifically says she and the rest of the CSM were not shown any of this before hand in her blog. (don't have link but will get and edit it in).



Bare faced lies by CCP again.

Deceptive.

They knew what the reaction would be.


Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:44:00 - [2098]
 

Originally by: Erichan
Seleene specifically says she


Seleene is a d00d...

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:45:00 - [2099]
 

Last year's motto: Excellence
This year's claimed motto: Deliver
This year's real motto: F*** it.

Mia Aires
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:45:00 - [2100]
 

Edited by: Mia Aires on 23/06/2011 21:46:21
Maybe this lady could share her humorous approach to community management prior or after the GDC Europe 2011

Quote:
Elsewhere, V. M., senior director of PR and communication from EVE Online developer CCP, will take a humorous approach to discussing community management in, "Everything I Ever Needed to Know About Online Communities I Learned from Jurassic Park," a talk that will illustrate the ins and outs of the job using examples from the classic Stephen Spielberg film and its sequels.


Source: www.gamasutra.com

She will have to show what she learned from Jurassic Park after today!




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