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Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:41:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Urgg Boolean

The overwhelming reality for us as players who do not want game-changing MT, is that CCP counts it's subscriber base in 10K's while many other games count in the millions. Don't get defensive, but by sheer numbers comparison, EvE is not that popular (a fact that most of us like). CCP can make a lot more money by doing all the marketable things that other games do. They can lose all current players, and still make increasing profits by attracting fans from LOTRO, WoW, Guild Wars, KotOR, StarTrek Online, and whatever else. Bottom line: their game design so far has attracted players in the 10Ks; to take a bigger market share, they need to change their model to accommodate the market research. It's business, pure and simple. <visions of Ebenezer Scrooge>


I do understand what your saying about market research showing a better way of making money. I really do. I'm ok with MT for trivial things. For example, different colored hull on exact same ship, or some fancy eye candy for your avatar, both of which should be destroyable in game. I'd buy a 5x pack of a pink skin with a carebear on it for my rupture, IF the word micro was really at the begining of the word transaction.

Monetary transactions for abilities that offer in game advantages over other people is an entirly different thing. Thats the danger, even in Dust514, its a danger to the entire game of Eve.

As for all current people being replaced by the MT crowd... Thats a big bet, a very big bet, to make with a game that has around 300k subs in a hard to learn game that most people dont play because people like the simplicity of WoW and farmville better.


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:41:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
"Right now you can store 50 personal fittings..., thats more than enough for the average EVE player..., why not be able to add more storage for a small amout of money?" - EVE Lead Game Designer

Finally they're showing their true colors -- be it unintentionally.

Quote:
"One other service we're looking at is selling faction standings. We want to offer convenience"

Extremely disturbing news.

Quote:
Dust: "Selling 'weapons' for real money is very tempting. ...we are planning on doing so...but the real reason is that we have strong evidence that selling performance enhancers, in moderation, works."

Even more disturbing!

Douches!

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:42:00 - [483]
 

They're probably gonna say something like "Hai guise, this is just an internal magazine, look there's even a disclaimer in it that the views exposed therein aren't official CCP policies." and maybe backpedal for a month or two.

Then put turrets with 10% bonus damage in the NeX, for 15,000 AUR.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:42:00 - [484]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You know, thinking back, yesterday when the prices came out for the vanity items, I thought to myself, this is bad, but it probably won't hurt subscriber numbers.

This.. this might actually hurt subscriber numbers.


Hurt? It's going to hurt like jumping out of a plane onto the peak of Mt. Everest without a parachute.

Given the incredibly high prices they put on their baubles can you imagine what they plan to charge us for the stuff being mentioned in the leaked internal newsletter?

This expansion has already cost CCP far more money in the subscribers they have lost AND WILL LOSE SOON than RMT will make them. And they have already lost their reputation. Like virginity, it can't be regained.




Actually, they have an operation for that.

It uses needles and thread.


Galane
The Interstellar Lunatic Asylum
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:42:00 - [485]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
lots of CCP alts around these days on the forums, and not even hiding that well


Well soundwave did say he'd be keeping an eye on this thread. He just forgot to mention it would be as an alt Wink

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:43:00 - [486]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

The only thing that it reveals - to me - is that CCP's focus has shifted from making a game (as small "indie" game companies tend to do) to making money through any possible means.


No.....ish. Or rather that's not quite fair.

Eve isn't supposed to be just about internet spaceships. Eve is supposed to be an entire universe. CCP has always wanted to expand the vision into the Barbie and FPS niches and beyond, no?

Yes, CCP could have sat on their laurels by staying focused on internet spaceships for quite some time and most of us would have been content. However, if CCP wants to stay true to their vision of Eve encompassing all things scifi, then they need a plan and money.

If you put on your glass-is-half-full monocle, MTs seem to be the way to fund the expansion of EVE into a full-fledged universe instead of just being a niche internet spaceship game.

Expansion requires players. Not everyone who plays internet spaceships will cross over into the Barbie or FPS market and vice versa. Therefore, Eve needs a way to attract new blood into playing Barbie and DUST.

Subs are Barriers. MTs are a risk-free gateway drug.

Subscriptions are nice, but given how many other MMOs are out there, a subscription could be seen as a barrier to entry for new players. People will easily pay a sub fee for big names like SWTOR without hesitation, but for a "no-name" brand like WiS or DUST, a sub fee is too much of a commitment for an unknown.

MTs would allow new players/markets to get their feet wet without the risk of committing. This gives CCP a chance to suck in those tentative players with engaging content.


Long story short, CCP has chosen to grow into something grander and they've picked MTs to finance that growth and as a means to pull in future players from a hyper-competitive MMO market.

So I would say the MTs are less about greed, and more about being competitive and attractive to the future Barbie and DUST market in order to fulfill a vision.


But otherwise, yeah, grognards will always hate change.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:43:00 - [487]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Hurt? It's going to hurt like jumping out of a plane onto the peak of Mt. Everest without a parachute.

Yeah, see, I'm more cynical.

On the one hand, we're in an uproar (or denial), but we're the hardcore elite. Most players don't frequent the forums. Chances are a lot of people won't give a damn. And even if they do, our lost subscriptions will probably be compensated for by the people who are going to buy monocles and pants and, when the time comes, whatever else CCP puts out there.

It'll damage reputation, probably. The question is, how much is reputation worth?

Time will tell, I guess.

Assuming this leak is legit, of course.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:44:00 - [488]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen

It's a simply matter of harassment. Be a ****head, slander the company through every internet media outlet you can get your cheeeto covered fingers on, and BAM expect a ban.



Then ban me, because I'm hosting the leaked memo on my personal website and have been distributing links to it. But really, its entirely consistent with the direction you're taking the company. We no longer see eye to eye about what Eve is. I expect an internet spaceship game with fantastic PVP. You expect to anally **** my wallet for $60 monacles.

Ban me.

-Liang

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:44:00 - [489]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
lots of CCP alts around these days on the forums, and not even hiding that well


Can you blame them for being upset? They were all promised brand new gold plated Rolls-Royces every year and all the lines of ******* they can snort off the hoods of them because of this bold new move into RMT! Where did you think the money from those $60 monocles was going to go, into game development? HA!

They are angrier than we are to see it all crash down in less than 24 hours!

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:44:00 - [490]
 

Originally by: Brujo Loco

Well now comes the question, how much of this rage and insanity could have been avoided if they simply decided to say in a full public statement to the media and the playerbase this was the direction they were taking? I bet despite some flames and uproar a lot of people would have remained still just to see how the game changed?

Why do they have to hide and naysay everything that makes them "look" bad? I'd rather prefer a games company that purposely blurted out it was doing it for the money than one that stood behind a silk curtain saying it's a company run "by gamers for gamers". Honesty guys, it's not overrated, it's the only real coin of exchange in the PR world of today. They should check the latest trends in company human resources. Honesty, brutal and sheer honesty, in a world where you can surf to a site and see decapitated women, mutilated animals, satanic cultists eating innards of recently deceased corpses, people still pretend the regular userbase of the internet is not prepared to deal with the raw implications of a companies business goal?

After all of this what is beginning to irk me the most is the lack of honesty from CCP. If they WANT their game to turn into a Play to Win or Free 2 play with Pay 2 win model, GOOD FOR THEM, but come out and say it so, before I waste my time here. Who knows, I might even want to stay if they come out and say it in the OPEN.

We are not 13 year old summer**** , we might act or scream or squeal like them, but most of us here are people with enough IQ to understand things if spoken bluntly with the possibility to foresee consequences.

Just come out of the Closet guys, and be free, it will be up to us to decide later how to react.


It's the disconnect between the vision that players have had for years and the new(?) direction of CCP that are at odds, and thus the rage.

Waylan Yutani
Gallente
Order of the Seraphim
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:45:00 - [491]
 

"No, no no. It's allready out there don't lock or delete the thread or we look even more of an a-hole than we allready does - better just let the rage settle and everybody will be a happy consumer within a month"

And this is excactly what was being thought or said with ccp, and this is excatly whats going to happen *lol*

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:45:00 - [492]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren

Ban me.

-Liang

You realize if this was SA you'd be banned already?

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:46:00 - [493]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Liang Nuren

The only thing that it reveals - to me - is that CCP's focus has shifted from making a game (as small "indie" game companies tend to do) to making money through any possible means.


No.....ish. Or rather that's not quite fair.

Eve isn't supposed to be just about internet spaceships. Eve is supposed to be an entire universe. CCP has always wanted to expand the vision into the Barbie and FPS niches and beyond, no?

Yes, CCP could have sat on their laurels by staying focused on internet spaceships for quite some time and most of us would have been content. However, if CCP wants to stay true to their vision of Eve encompassing all things scifi, then they need a plan and money.

If you put on your glass-is-half-full monocle, MTs seem to be the way to fund the expansion of EVE into a full-fledged universe instead of just being a niche internet spaceship game.

Expansion requires players. Not everyone who plays internet spaceships will cross over into the Barbie or FPS market and vice versa. Therefore, Eve needs a way to attract new blood into playing Barbie and DUST.

Subs are Barriers. MTs are a risk-free gateway drug.

Subscriptions are nice, but given how many other MMOs are out there, a subscription could be seen as a barrier to entry for new players. People will easily pay a sub fee for big names like SWTOR without hesitation, but for a "no-name" brand like WiS or DUST, a sub fee is too much of a commitment for an unknown.

MTs would allow new players/markets to get their feet wet without the risk of committing. This gives CCP a chance to suck in those tentative players with engaging content.


Long story short, CCP has chosen to grow into something grander and they've picked MTs to finance that growth and as a means to pull in future players from a hyper-competitive MMO market.

So I would say the MTs are less about greed, and more about being competitive and attractive to the future Barbie and DUST market in order to fulfill a vision.


But otherwise, yeah, grognards will always hate change.



This would be a much better argument if CCP wasn't showing obvious signs of management problems, financial problems, and in general being overstretched with too many risky projects. There was no reason for this. CCP should have focused on EVE, made it shine, and worked on one side projects at a time -tops-. Chasing the dream is fine, selling your customers to the devil to get there quicker and risk losing it all, that is unacceptable.

Tla Atij
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:47:00 - [494]
 

EVE IS FOREVER until you allow shield/armor/damage bonuses for euros and dollars.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:47:00 - [495]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You know, thinking back, yesterday when the prices came out for the vanity items, I thought to myself, this is bad, but it probably won't hurt subscriber numbers.

This.. this might actually hurt subscriber numbers.


Hurt? It's going to hurt like jumping out of a plane onto the peak of Mt. Everest without a parachute.

Given the incredibly high prices they put on their baubles can you imagine what they plan to charge us for the stuff being mentioned in the leaked internal newsletter?

This expansion has already cost CCP far more money in the subscribers they have lost AND WILL LOSE SOON than RMT will make them. And they have already lost their reputation. Like virginity, it can't be regained.




Actually, they have an operation for that.

It uses needles and thread.




True, but it tends to be exposed as fake when the experience past the repaired maidenhead is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway... That's as reamed out as CCP's integrity is at this point...

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:47:00 - [496]
 

CCP might have chosen to grow into something different, but even if they are to include RMT, they should NEVER, EVER alienate the playerbase that made them what they are today.

Thats like blowing up your main powerline trying to install a secondary feed.

Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:48:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Black Dranzer
You know, thinking back, yesterday when the prices came out for the vanity items, I thought to myself, this is bad, but it probably won't hurt subscriber numbers.

This.. this might actually hurt subscriber numbers.


Hurt? It's going to hurt like jumping out of a plane onto the peak of Mt. Everest without a parachute.

Given the incredibly high prices they put on their baubles can you imagine what they plan to charge us for the stuff being mentioned in the leaked internal newsletter?

This expansion has already cost CCP far more money in the subscribers they have lost AND WILL LOSE SOON than RMT will make them. And they have already lost their reputation. Like virginity, it can't be regained.




Actually, they have an operation for that.

It uses needles and thread.




what you plan on doing after your subs up milia? any games out there you're thinkin of? (genuinely interested)

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:48:00 - [498]
 

When the rats/trolls leave the ship first.

Worry.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:48:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Liang Nuren

Ban me.

-Liang

You realize if this was SA you'd be banned already?


This is me caring?

Sakura Zendragon
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:49:00 - [500]
 

Just effin' brilliant... great way to treat your customers, you know, the ones that pay your frickin wages?

Soo... what's the future holding in store? Lemme go crazy here for a sec...
1. Overpriced vanity items. Just vanity items. No, we will not sell stuff that has game impact...
2. Extra saved fittings. Next up, cap bookmarks and sell extra bookmark slots.
3. Ammo. Normal ammo? Screws economy and industrial players, no? Faction ammo? Screws LP market, I'd expect. Uber-AUR-only ammo?
4. Standings. Doesn't hurt nothing, right? Oh wait.... Datacore market? Rolling Eyes
5. Ships. Again normal ones screwing the economy and industry? Faction? uber-AUR-only imbalanced-mobiles?
6. There is none...
7. While we're at it, some uber-AUR-only mods? Or officer/deadspace/faction mods, why not?
8. How about +10 attribute implants? +10% hardwires... oh wait, +10 attribute enhanced Crystal sets?
9. Instant SP boost! BS V in just 30 seconds!
10. Extra hardwire slots, maybe?
11. Buy-a-POS, anchoring service included. Instant Sov for a reasonable price for discriminating customers!
12. CONCORD-for-hire! Turn your Sov 0.0 into your own personal HiSec with full CONCORD protection! Shocked
13. CONCORD Bribes! Make sure they're eating doughnuts while you SB the hell out of Jita 4-4! YARRRR!!
14. HiSec supercaps!Twisted Evil

So I went a bit overboard...Worst part is, I'm not sure exactly where CCP would draw the line anymore...ughRolling Eyes

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:50:00 - [501]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 00:50:20

At CCP's current store prices, I could buy a real spaceship.



Why would I buy a pretend thing?


Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:50:00 - [502]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
CCP might have chosen to grow into something different, but even if they are to include RMT, they should NEVER, EVER alienate the playerbase that made them what they are today.

Thats like blowing up your main powerline trying to install a secondary feed.


The real tragedy is that there was no need for it, they would have made WoD into MT heaven and that was it. EVE was going strong on this business model, but greed is evil, it changes you into thinking you can get more and more out of something, missing that it works fine as it is.

Dante024781
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:50:00 - [503]
 

Edited by: Dante024781 on 23/06/2011 00:52:51


Originally by: stoicfaux

Subs are Barriers. MTs are a risk-free gateway drug.

Subscriptions are nice, but given how many other MMOs are out there, a subscription could be seen as a barrier to entry for new players. People will easily pay a sub fee for big names like SWTOR without hesitation, but for a "no-name" brand like WiS or DUST, a sub fee is too much of a commitment for an unknown.



I subscribed to a no name MMO called EVE based on the free 15 day trial.

If CCP are planing on moving to MT payment model for EVE that's fine, It's their game they can do what they want with it. But they will do it without me as a customer.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:51:00 - [504]
 

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

This would be a much better argument if CCP wasn't showing obvious signs of management problems, financial problems, and in general being overstretched with too many risky projects. There was no reason for this. CCP should have focused on EVE, made it shine, and worked on one side projects at a time -tops-. Chasing the dream is fine, selling your customers to the devil to get there quicker and risk losing it all, that is unacceptable.


From what I recall from EVE history, the original Dev team worked without pay for quite a long time to get the company started and the game released. After their wonderful decisions of the past year which culminated with this "expansion" at least a part of that history is about to repeat itself.

Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:52:00 - [505]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen


2) Bigotry. EvE players have a long-standing feeling of superiority over WoW players. Internet spaceships pilots thinking they're cooler and smarter than internet mages. Whatever. I dont give a crap whether you're into spaceships, wizards, vampires, or fantasy football, you still have a nerdy hobby. Just take ownership of it and stop inflating your ego by tearing down those with a different nerd streak than yourself.



CCP isn't banning people that are offering simple, constructive, respectful criticism. They are banning ****heads who spam them from every angle with emotion filled hateful rants that have little use or bearing on reality, or who condone and spread fake CCP material like the stuff that sparked this thread.


first of all if it's fake, I'm pretty sure CCP will tell us. By now we haven't heard a word from them and two csm members have mentioned having seen that "thing" before...

second. I started playing this game, because there was nothing like it. Nothing. Nothing at all... Ive never participated in the expected ***gotry after every new patch with people going ape**** over nothing and then like it anyway after a week. I can understand 0.0 people being ****ed off with the lag tho (among other things, but anyway...).
But this, this would change EvE in such a way, that it becomes something realy ugly, something, quite like... well... all the rest really. Rich nerds having an advantage over everyone else. I don't feel like being part of something like that. It offers me no immersion. There is no immersion to be found when you realise that a lot of people have an advantage over you not because theyre better, but because they have acces to rich parents visa's...

I like this game, and I'd rather have a fond memory of it by leaving it when it's still good than a bitter one.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:52:00 - [506]
 

Impersonation of CCP staff is forbidden, even in jest. Spitfire

Montmazar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:53:00 - [507]
 

Edited by: Montmazar on 23/06/2011 00:56:21

Dear idiots,

Hans Jagerblitzen is not a CCP alt. I suspect some of those raging here, however, are.

I kid, I kid. We all know CCP employees don't play the game. But, what we see in the twittering, the full document and the gossip is that it seems CCP is arguing amongst itself over the vision of the game. And what worries me is, in this latest expansion, the side I don't want to see win, seems to have won. $70 monocles. This game is now a laughing stock. More of one, I mean. But this fundamentally hurts the EVE brand.

I've canceled one of my accounts (mostly because I just didn't use it) but this is pushing me to just pay with ISK until I run out on my main. If EVE gets on the right track, with iteration on Incarna and not going whole-hog on Microtransactions, then I'll start paying for this game again. And to any friends who ask me if this is worth playing - given that it takes a year or so to really come into being a fully realized player - I just don't have faith this game is even going to last that long. CCP's actions look worryingly like a company trying to pump and dump for cash while they still can.

And I was actually planning to buy space clothes for isk too. . .


*I definitely believe it is real, per Seleene's affirmation and per its edit history. Plus, if EVEnews24 wrote it, it would be completely unreadable and full of emoticons.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:54:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Impersonation of CCP staff is forbidden, even in jest. Spitfire



Reported for impersonating a CCP employee.

Against the rules.


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:54:00 - [509]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
The only thing that it reveals - to me - is that CCP's focus has shifted from making a game (as small "indie" game companies tend to do) to making money through any possible means.

We don't always agree on everything, but I'd say you pretty much nailed it here, buddy.

Gawd, I'm so disgusted with CCP now, it's not even funny any more. :(

N.B. And no, y'all can't haz my stuff.

Caladan Broood
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:54:00 - [510]
 

Originally by: Sakura Zendragon
Just effin' brilliant... great way to treat your customers, you know, the ones that pay your frickin wages?

12. CONCORD-for-hire! Turn your Sov 0.0 into your own personal HiSec with full CONCORD protection! Shocked


Okay edit that one out, don't give them that kind of ideas.

RMT markets and bringing items into game will equal most development geared towards the RMT items. Why put that much into new "free" content where there is no return for the time devoted to development. Instead you can now monetize the developer's time and tie it to their bonus.

So developer works on free projects and updates with little bonus. But if developer starts producing RMT items at break neck speed their bonus is increased by a factor based on the sale and demand of that RMT items. Don't think this won't happen, it already occurs in the industry. Brain talent will go towards helping themselves. They will put minimal effort into fixing anything or testing anything that they give out free.


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