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Lord Fargo
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:35:00 - [331]
 

Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:35:00 - [332]
 

::sadpanda::

regardless of the authenticity of the meme, we/i can see where this is heading!

That direction is downwards at a rate of knots.Neutral

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:35:00 - [333]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder

About the only thing that is going to save this game at this point is an announcement TOMORROW that they realize this was a terrible idea, Aurum is being dropped and everyone who bought any is having their money refunded, and all the cash shop items are going to be seeded in game as blueprints, along with a promise to NEVER do something like this again.



Would you believe them? Didn't think so.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:35:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


omg i nearly wet myself laughing!

C.




Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:35:00 - [335]
 

Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Originally by: Ashlyn Shi'jun
Its funny to watch people trying to sabotage eve with posts like this, i wonder how much they are paid by other companies for doing so.
Ahahahahaha *cough* *cough* ... Oh, you're serious? Get a grip, EVE has no competition in this niche.


And that is all Eve is, NICHE, TINY, WoD is their BIG REVENUE generator once it is live.

Eve is just to get it started. Once WoD goes live, it is going to bring in much more revenue than Eve ever did, as WoD has a larger potential audience than "niche scifi".


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:36:00 - [336]
 

Originally by: Lord Fargo
Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up

I've got a better idea

How about me and everybody else who shares my opinions take our money and stop giving it to CCP

How about that

How does that sound

Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:37:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Lord Fargo
Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up

I've got a better idea

How about me and everybody else who shares my opinions take our money and stop giving it to CCP

How about that

How does that sound
Excellent. Vote with your wallet people.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:37:00 - [338]
 

burn ccp burn

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:38:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Originally by: Ashlyn Shi'jun
Its funny to watch people trying to sabotage eve with posts like this, i wonder how much they are paid by other companies for doing so.
Ahahahahaha *cough* *cough* ... Oh, you're serious? Get a grip, EVE has no competition in this niche.


And that is all Eve is, NICHE, TINY, WoD is their BIG REVENUE generator once it is live.

Eve is just to get it started. Once WoD goes live, it is going to bring in much more revenue than Eve ever did, as WoD has a larger potential audience than "niche scifi".




That's what they're betting the farm on, at least. Doesn't make it true though.

Satallius
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:38:00 - [340]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Originally by: Ashlyn Shi'jun
Its funny to watch people trying to sabotage eve with posts like this, i wonder how much they are paid by other companies for doing so.
Ahahahahaha *cough* *cough* ... Oh, you're serious? Get a grip, EVE has no competition in this niche.


And that is all Eve is, NICHE, TINY, WoD is their BIG REVENUE generator once it is live.

Eve is just to get it started. Once WoD goes live, it is going to bring in much more revenue than Eve ever did, as WoD has a larger potential audience than "niche scifi".





Really? How big can WoD's base be? If I am correct, WoD is supposed to be based on the world of Vampire: The Masquerade?

How big of a niche is that? The two single player Vampire games made by troika games didn't even sell that well. So how will an MMO based on the same table top RPG do well?

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:38:00 - [341]
 

Originally by: Isil Rahsen
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Lord Fargo
Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up

I've got a better idea

How about me and everybody else who shares my opinions take our money and stop giving it to CCP

How about that

How does that sound
Excellent. Vote with your wallet people.



They are targeting those that already do buy EXTRA CHARACTER ACCOUNTS. Those people already pay extra "to win" packages, it is called the POWER OF TWO (or sometimes 5 or 8). we can thank those idiots for making the player base look LOADED with DISPOSABLE MONEY that now CCP want.


Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:38:00 - [342]
 

Originally by: White Tree
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


great to know you CSM ppl have everything sorted hm? Laughing

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:39:00 - [343]
 

Considering CCP are watching this thread, I figured I'd put in a comment or two.

Very first thing I want to say:

I love you guys, I love Eve, and through all the ups and downs I've enjoyed my time in Eve. Hell, I even laughed at the cost of the vanity items you've introduced to fleece the rich and not too bright. The money I have spent on Eve so far over nearly 7 years has been worth the ride.

Now, saying all that, if you at CCP implement any real money transactions that give players abilities/advantages over other players in game, you are going to break Eve. I will not stick around while you destroy something I love.

The CSM has already told you their view on microtransactions and the player bases view. We are currently telling you yet again what our view on microtransactions are.

No in-game advantage due to real money. This includes Dust514 that you plan on integrating into our Eve universe. Do I need to scream that into your ears untill they bleed?

You business guys at CCP who think you are so much smarter than the player base had better read all of these negative replies the Eve community are giving you. This is another turning point for the game fellas. Put simply, you are very close to losing it all on your bet that the players will stay.

No in-game advantage due to real money in both Eve and Dust514 because Dust is going to have an effect on Eve. Are your ears bleeding yet?

No Faction pos for real money, no special ammo for real money, no 1 day old superheros that can go around ganking 7 year vets because they spent $1000 to do so.

Are we making ourselves clear? Or do we have to strip you naked and beat you with a sack of pickles before you start hearing us?


RensPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:41:00 - [344]
 

the X series is kind of competing to eve in way that they are both supposed to be grand scale space simulations and both are heavily inspired by elite. So they dont have the multiplayer/mmo aspect. The new X-game X:Rebirth is to be released this fall. www.egosoft.com

Maximus Trollus
Amarr
The Village Idiots
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:41:00 - [345]
 

Originally by: Lord Fargo
Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up


aaww a little troll...

Can I take it home mommy? please? pleeeaaaasse?? **bambi eyes**

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:41:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
Considering CCP are watching this thread, I figured I'd put in a comment or two.

Very first thing I want to say:

I love you guys, I love Eve, and through all the ups and downs I've enjoyed my time in Eve. Hell, I even laughed at the cost of the vanity items you've introduced to fleece the rich and not too bright. The money I have spent on Eve so far over nearly 7 years has been worth the ride.

Now, saying all that, if you at CCP implement any real money transactions that give players abilities/advantages over other players in game, you are going to break Eve. I will not stick around while you destroy something I love.

The CSM has already told you their view on microtransactions and the player bases view. We are currently telling you yet again what our view on microtransactions are.

No in-game advantage due to real money. This includes Dust514 that you plan on integrating into our Eve universe. Do I need to scream that into your ears untill they bleed?

You business guys at CCP who think you are so much smarter than the player base had better read all of these negative replies the Eve community are giving you. This is another turning point for the game fellas. Put simply, you are very close to losing it all on your bet that the players will stay.

No in-game advantage due to real money in both Eve and Dust514 because Dust is going to have an effect on Eve. Are your ears bleeding yet?

No Faction pos for real money, no special ammo for real money, no 1 day old superheros that can go around ganking 7 year vets because they spent $1000 to do so.

Are we making ourselves clear? Or do we have to strip you naked and beat you with a sack of pickles before you start hearing us?




What kind of pickles?


handige harrie
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:41:00 - [347]
 

Edited by: handige harrie on 22/06/2011 23:42:31
I think CCP is in the wrong business, if you want to handle crap loads of money and not care about a thing in the world, start a bank, an Oil Company or do something shady with real life weapons.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:43:00 - [348]
 

Originally by: Olleybear

Are we making ourselves clear? Or do we have to strip you naked and beat you with a sack of pickles before you start hearing us?



Now that sounds like a fun exercise, i would pay 9,99$ for the pleasure.

Hesperius
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:43:00 - [349]
 

Originally by: Lord Fargo
Can't see what the fuss is all about, get a real life job so you can pay for all of this, simply put, put up or shut up

Its "put out or get out".

Pure Tabasco
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:43:00 - [350]
 

Edited by: Pure Tabasco on 22/06/2011 23:43:56
Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Bologna Brains
CCP hasnt denied it in 10 pages, and something like this, if easily fake, would be denied by CCP quickly.


They can't deny it because it's true.

This document honestly indicates that there are serious INTERNAL problems at CCP. It reads like a sales brochure that is trying to sell their own employees on this "bold new direction" into killing the sandbox of EVE by placing tollbooths everywhere an eye can see.

I think that it was written because there is a lot of dissension in the ranks, much as we found out later there was on the Star Wars Galaxies Dev team when SOE ordered them to ditch the sandbox and do the NGE.

Just as happened then, with SOE, I expect this "bold new direction" is going to cause a brain drain at CCP. Their top talent is going to leave as quickly as they can get new jobs. And why not, they have people who could work for anyone, who could probably command much higher salaries working for other publishers, some of the best talent THERE IS, who probably stayed on that frigid little island because they loved their job, and EVE and CCP were different from everyone else, cooler than everyone else.

Now CCP is just another publisher looking to suck the maximum amount of cash out of their customer's wallets for a minimal amount of effort. Everything that made CCP respectable is now gone, perhaps irreparably.

Indeed, DEFINITELY irreparably. They saw our reaction when all this was proposed. They ignored us. They see our reactions now. $60 for monocle? REALLY? How is that NOT pure greed?

About the only thing that is going to save this game at this point is an announcement TOMORROW that they realize this was a terrible idea, Aurum is being dropped and everyone who bought any is having their money refunded, and all the cash shop items are going to be seeded in game as blueprints, along with a promise to NEVER do something like this again.

They won't do it. They are too busy spending all that extra money they are never going to get to see what is happening.



Well for all sake this gives again the example that "whats on paper dosent allways apply in reality".
Or "Your amazing idea its not amazing or even good"
Or "What is going inside your head only works in your head"
Or "What you think its cool actually its not"
Or "The costumer allways got the reason"
Or "This is Madness! This is Sparta!"
Or "I think they dont gonna mind.... Whoops!"
Or "¿Por qué? yo no entiendo por que"
Or JUST CHECK THE H!TLER MOVIE THAT MANY PEOPLE USES FOR GIVING IT OTHER SUBTITLES! H!TLER DIDNT KNOWN WHAT WAS HAPPENING UNTIL TOO LATE!!!

You can keep knowing what follows

Urgg Boolean
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:44:00 - [351]
 

I'm all for going with the flow. I happen to have a spare $100US. Can I get my own personal instanced 0.0 region? Oh wait, I only have $100, guess I better think smaller, like a 6-pack of Quaff. But ya know, if I took out a 2nd mortgage ...

This all reminds of the story behind the rock musician Alice Cooper. A group of LA businessmen auditioned for rock band members, and told them, essentially, you play what we say, dress like we say, act like we say, say what we tell you to say, and we'll all become millionaires. Alice Cooper was born. It's all about the money. It's based upon market research. It's business with no pretense of creativity with the ethics and morals of capitalism. Capitalists tend to forget the French Revolution because of modern laws preventing commoners from beheading the gentry. But it seems there may be a revolt afoot...

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:44:00 - [352]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: Illwill Bill
It's interesting that CCP's Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. hasn't been activated yet.

Honestly, not even CCP has the hull tank for this.


Honor Tank! Honor Tank! CCP has a low rack full of cargo expanders so they can haul their bull **** around.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:45:00 - [353]
 

Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Originally by: Republica Winder

About the only thing that is going to save this game at this point is an announcement TOMORROW that they realize this was a terrible idea, Aurum is being dropped and everyone who bought any is having their money refunded, and all the cash shop items are going to be seeded in game as blueprints, along with a promise to NEVER do something like this again.



Would you believe them? Didn't think so.


No. Having been porked in the ass once already by SOE in a similar fashion, now this, I'm not only never touching EVE again if they don't undo all this crap, I think I'm through with MMOs period. This industry is corrupt and greedy. The publisher that WONT stab you in the back and ruin your game for the sake of some easy money doesn't exist. I used to think that publisher was CCP. Which is what makes this so tragic.

Look, guys, most here haven't even realized what the second shoe that has yet to hit the floor is going to be... If they are going to be selling $60 monocles to people who have lots more money than sense, who do you think CCP is going to favor?

Are they going to tell those customers, who are making them a HELLUVA LOT MORE MONEY than YOU are "tough" when that item blows up with their ship? Or are they going to DO AWAY WITH open pvp?

Anyone who thinks that EVE's sandbox won't give ground EVERY TIME it comes in conflict with the cash shop is someone who is in the market for beach front property in Nevada.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:46:00 - [354]
 

http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=121298#p121298

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:48:00 - [355]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 22/06/2011 23:47:49



So, who's up for playing Eve?




Nah, didn't think so.

Grog Barrel
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:48:00 - [356]
 

tl;dr

j3ws

Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:49:00 - [357]
 

Aha....HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha....

**** this bull****. You've really jumped the shark with this one.

Goddamn.

Mahnmut Orphu
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:50:00 - [358]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 22/06/2011 22:38:29
Some counter-arguments:
* Creating an epic arc just for more fitting space requires dev/art/writing resources.

* It's also a very specific quest which has the risk of being of limited appeal.

* It's a grind. Do you really want to have to run the same content on multiple characters to get the additional fitting space?


An alternative would be to let you buy the extra space with ISK (i.e. the ISK-Plex-Aurum cycle.) The advantages are:

* the market can place a better value on the extra space. (CCP doesn't have to worry about balancing the effort of the Epic Arc to match the rewards.)

* you can do things you like or that are more convenient for you to earn the ISK to buy the Plex to buy the Aurum to buy the space.

* no Dev/Art/Writing resources are required,

* those Dev/Art/Writing resources can instead create a more generic Epic Arc that appeals to a wider audience and not just the few people who need more than 50 fitting slots. Meaning, the players can use the isk from the generic Epic Arc to buy the MT items that they're interested in instead of a static reward of extra fitting slots.





Good points, but the idea of extra fitting space was just a very specific example...and honestly not a very exciting one. It is easy to imagine a much more enticing reward than this.

Also, it shouldn't be considered a grind. I'm working under the assumption that the content would be well designed. This means that the mission would have an intriguing story and more importantly be fun and challenging to carry out. A little flexibility within the story or how the missions are completed is a realistic goal to set, even when considering the Dev/Art/Writing resources. Something like this sounds like much less of a grind than normal ISK earning.

Further, a given mission or mission arc does not have to be confined to a single reward. The concept of selectable rewards is not exactly groundbreaking.

And what if you want more than one of the offered rewards? Well you'd have to do it again. I do not feel it is unrealistic to create a mission arc that has replay value.

I do agree that this would have to appeal to a wide audience not only in gameplay but in rewards offered. If you look beyond the whole fitting slot example you ought to be able to imagine much more favorable ways of advancing through the game than microtransactions and yes, even the ISK-Plex-Aurum cycle. This cycle shouldn't necessarily be considered the only option for game advancement, even if it is a vital game mechanic. Obviously, mission rewards could be sold on the market, where they would inherit a value dictated by players, just as you said.

In sum... I agree with most of what you said. Buying extra space (or whatever) with ISK should be an alternative but not the only way. There ought to be some balance between the ISK-Plex-Aurum economy and the part of the game that involves pretending you're an epic capsuleer/demi-god who has all eternity to create yourself. Not all, but some demi-gods might prefer a little variety and storyline to spice up their eternal existence.

Also - SOME amount of Dev/Art/Writing resources should be required for just about everything in this game, I think.


I Legionnaire
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:50:00 - [359]
 

poasting in an epic thread

Damn, I can't wait for SWTOR to come out.

Nilania Telshua
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:50:00 - [360]
 

This is like watching a trainwreck happen.

The fact that there is no proper denial and
that this thread is still going alone
lends credibility to the material.

We cannot be sure if there have been text edits though.

Yet the fact that CCP dedicated such an internal communication instrument
to selling the idea of Money Transaction to its employees
proves that they are of central importance to the companies long-term strategy.

That this document was leaked and even necessary to produce shows,
how divided the internal culture of CCP is about Real-Money-Transactions.

Incarna more and more turns into an example of a Public-Relations-Failcascade.


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