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VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:31:00 - [1]
 

Straightforward question.

Assuming the enemy is in optimal, I think the wiki's agree blasters are the highest DPS, but which turret specifically in the small and medium categories will put out the most? Electron/Ion/Neutron? Do auto cannons do well enough to compare directly if they load the right ammo for the target?

Chutney Hustler
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:35:00 - [2]
 

All things being equal, Neutron blasters in their respective categories will always have the highest DPS.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:53:00 - [3]
 

You might be fooled by high DPS numbers, range, tracking and signature radius are the most determining factor of REAL dps applied.

If you start the fight at blaster turrets optimal range with no one moving and use the appropiate size of turret vs ship (signature radius), yes blasters will deal the most damage over time.

The current issues noone uses them are, that fights never start at the low, low range of blasters, even when they get in range they have tracking issues so cant put out the theoretical dmg and considering you travel to your target over a range of 20km at a speed of 1000m/s, thats roughly 20secs (including acceleration) until you are in range, 20sec of which you have to soak up dmg while dealing no dmg at all, now you have to make up for the lost time with your marginally 5-10% superior dmg output. So in the end blasters look like pwnage on paper but cant utilize that functionality in practice.

Besides in todays gang warfare of RR chains, fleets prefer a high alpha (first strike dmg) rather than a high DPS setup.. kill something before it can get logistics support.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:16:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 21/06/2011 13:43:25
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 21/06/2011 13:16:49
And where do missiles fit in?

Missiles from a hookbill or rockets from a Vengeance. Are they on par with turrets vs other frigates? Less DPS for missiles, more for rockets but with said range issue?

Cruiser level?

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:03:00 - [5]
 

Missiles is a completely different story, now u dont have to consider the relative transversal velocity between you and the target for tracking, but the absolute speed and signature radius of the target. Also there is no hit quality based on probabilty like on turrets but a flat out dmg reduction if your target goes faster than the optimal explosion velocity of your missile.

What is it your are trying to do, PVP, PVE, anti-frig?

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:22:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 21/06/2011 14:23:02
Originally by: Kunming
Missiles is a completely different story, now u dont have to consider the relative transversal velocity between you and the target for tracking, but the absolute speed and signature radius of the target. Also there is no hit quality based on probabilty like on turrets but a flat out dmg reduction if your target goes faster than the optimal explosion velocity of your missile.

What is it your are trying to do, PVP, PVE, anti-frig?



I think I get most of that already.


I'm just trying to get an idea of how the DPS stacks up between weapon types. Mostly interested in the frigate/small level, but also cruiser/medium.

Usually people start to go on about all the different scenarios and factors, but that's more a piloting and fitting issue to me, with trying to apply what your ship is good at vs negating what the enemy's strengths are. If it takes a painter or webs to get it, that's fine. If it's best vs certain targets, that's fine. If you need to maneuver to work with tracking, that's fine. Just like you said a blaster needs really close range. Everything needs 'something' done by the pilot or needs 'some' help from the ships modules to compete.

I was hoping since I've got one direct answer and one forthcoming player here, I might be able to get a good answer on where missiles fall in terms of DPS at ideal. If you had to list all six turrets, rockets, and missiles in order of DPS if used to full effect, what would it look like?

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Chutney Hustler
All things being equal, Neutron blasters in their respective categories will always have the highest DPS. ON EFT



Fixed 4U

Ef Ahak
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:01:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ineka
Originally by: Chutney Hustler
All things being equal, Neutron blasters in their respective categories will always have the highest DPS. ON EFT



Fixed 4U


"All things being equal" equates to EFT, so there's really no need to 'fix' anything. Being anti-EFT-warrior is cool though.

Fredfredbug4
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:05:00 - [9]
 

Blasters have the Highest DPS number wise. In actual combat it varies, right now I think it is about a tie with pulse lasers and autocannons.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ef Ahak
Originally by: Ineka
Originally by: Chutney Hustler
All things being equal, Neutron blasters in their respective categories will always have the highest DPS. ON EFT



Fixed 4U


"All things being equal" equates to EFT, so there's really no need to 'fix' anything. Being anti-EFT-warrior is cool though.


Yes I saw in this last tournament how powerful blaster ships and gallente in general are overpowered.

Laughing

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:41:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 21/06/2011 15:54:20

Originally by: Ineka
Yes I saw in this last tournament how powerful blaster ships and gallente in general are overpowered.Laughing


I think you are trying to argue with (or troll) him, but you must have missed his point. He's trying to show you that my question was specifically about numbers on paper, not a complete fight.

Potential vs Viability is the whole point to combat strategy in any game. EVE is very different in mechanics, but not special in the slightest for what comes out of that machine. Apply what you're good at, and protect against what you're bad at. Group discipline/strategy.

You have to understand potential, to decide if it's worth what it takes to make it viable. That's all I'm trying to do by seeing where the turret/missile types fall in terms of damage. Understand potential, before I start trying to get my head around the complexities of realizing that potential.(EDIT--) Which really that part is only going to come with pilot time. I need to take some blasters and go TRY to shoot someone with them, and see how hard it is to make that work out. I need to go get some missiles and try to play keep away, see if I can do it. etc. But it helps to know where to start, by knowing what does the best/worst damage.

So I'll repost my next question:
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
If you had to list all six turrets, rockets, and missiles in order of DPS if used to full effect, what would it look like?





EDIT--
Knowing this community a bit now, maybe it'll help if I post a list and you guys tell me how wrong and stupid I am. I know how much you guys like to do that to eachother. When the list is right I'll... go back to WoW. I promise. :)


Placements assume best ammo for target available.

MOST DAMAGE
+
Rockets
Blasters
Autocannons
Pulse Lasers
Missiles
Beam Lasers
Railguns
Artillery (lowest DPS, highest volly)
-
LEAST DAMAGE




.

Nelson Black
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:30:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ineka


Yes I saw in this last tournament how powerful blaster ships and gallente in general are overpowered.

Laughing


I hear amarr was also well represented.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nelson Black
Originally by: Ineka


Yes I saw in this last tournament how powerful blaster ships and gallente in general are overpowered.

Laughing


I hear amarr was also well represented.


The Tournament really isn't much a better indicator of PvP balance than EFT is.
Tournament conditions are more like mission running than 'actual' combat.

Dr Jenny Kohler
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 21/06/2011 15:54:20

Originally by: Ineka
Yes I saw in this last tournament how powerful blaster ships and gallente in general are overpowered.Laughing


I think you are trying to argue with (or troll) him, but you must have missed his point. He's trying to show you that my question was specifically about numbers on paper, not a complete fight.

Potential vs Viability is the whole point to combat strategy in any game. EVE is very different in mechanics, but not special in the slightest for what comes out of that machine. Apply what you're good at, and protect against what you're bad at. Group discipline/strategy.

You have to understand potential, to decide if it's worth what it takes to make it viable. That's all I'm trying to do by seeing where the turret/missile types fall in terms of damage. Understand potential, before I start trying to get my head around the complexities of realizing that potential.(EDIT--) Which really that part is only going to come with pilot time. I need to take some blasters and go TRY to shoot someone with them, and see how hard it is to make that work out. I need to go get some missiles and try to play keep away, see if I can do it. etc. But it helps to know where to start, by knowing what does the best/worst damage.

So I'll repost my next question:
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
If you had to list all six turrets, rockets, and missiles in order of DPS if used to full effect, what would it look like?





EDIT--
Knowing this community a bit now, maybe it'll help if I post a list and you guys tell me how wrong and stupid I am. I know how much you guys like to do that to eachother. When the list is right I'll... go back to WoW. I promise. :)


Placements assume best ammo for target available.

MOST DAMAGE
+
Rockets
Blasters
Autocannons
Pulse Lasers
Missiles
Beam Lasers
Railguns
Artillery (lowest DPS, highest volly)
-
LEAST DAMAGE




.


+1 Cause you're spunky Laughing

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:16:00 - [15]
 

<3

Just had a big epiphany in another thread about tracking and rockets. I had the misconception that tracking wasn't an issue in frig v frig because of how well small turrets track. But in something as fast as a malediction, that can ignore tracking concerns on it's own end with weapons like rockets... I think that might be my ship.

I've been saying missiles and speed around these boards like a god damned parrot.


New question: Do hookbill bonuses go for rockets as well? They are a type of missile right? But then again some ships say specifically rocket damage and such so I'm not sure.


Paikis
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: VKhaun Vex
<3

Just had a big epiphany in another thread about tracking and rockets. I had the misconception that tracking wasn't an issue in frig v frig because of how well small turrets track. But in something as fast as a malediction, that can ignore tracking concerns on it's own end with weapons like rockets... I think that might be my ship.

I've been saying missiles and speed around these boards like a god damned parrot.


New question: Do hookbill bonuses go for rockets as well? They are a type of missile right? But then again some ships say specifically rocket damage and such so I'm not sure.




Tracking is almost always an issue in combat. The only time you wont have to worry about tracking will be attacking ships that are bigger than you (i.e a frigate attacking a battleship). Rockets *DO* track... sort of. The missile damage forumla is floating around somewhere, and I'm sure someone will be along shortly with a link, but it is dependant on speed and signiture radius. Fast targets will take alot less damage than slow ones, so although transversal is a meaningless number when you're firing rockets, SPEED is not. Fit webs.

As for your question: Yes, the Hookbill bonuses apply to rockets. 'Missiles' is a general term implying the entire weapon type. If they meant only light missiles, it would have said 'light missiles'


 

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