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ARES 003
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:53:00 - [1]
 

Good day m8s.

To all of the experienced frigate pvp pilots out there, if you had to pick which race had the weakest selection of pvp frigates, which would it be?

Judicator Saturnius
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:56:00 - [2]
 

Amarr

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:58:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 20/06/2011 19:58:55

Its overall pretty even with frigates I'd say, as long as we count t2 and faction frigs as well.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:01:00 - [4]
 

Amarr. Sad

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:25:00 - [5]
 

Overall it's probably the Amarr lineup although they have the second best (solo) Stealth Bomber and the Navy Slicer is a mighty fine ship. The Sentinel is also pretty cool but no one will want to engage you in it without a clear numbers advantage. The main issue here is a lack of midslots combined with slow base speeds and armor tanking. They simply get kited far too easily and can't do much to control range. They are still fun to fly if you like variety but don't expect anything like the versatility of the other races options. One of their AF's and the coercer have a single bloody mid slot. What a disaster. Oh, the Heretic is also a mighty fine Interdictor, probably second in class to the Sabre.

Caldari are often considered weaker in PVP due to mid slot tank/tackle limitations but for the frigs they have some very good ones and can even fit web fits so kiting and varied tactics are still viable.

The Gallente just have a great lineup in general with clearly favourable ships like the Ishkur and Taranis. Ships like the Tristan are not to be underestimated either. Webs on everything! (except enyo's) Embarassed

The Minmatar have the most OP goddamn T1 frig in the game (Rifters) and plenty of variety and most can be fit in different ways so can be lest predictable to engage giving them an advantage. They also have the most blatantly imbalanced dictor.

ARES 003
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:44:00 - [6]
 

To be perfectly honest, I figured the most frequented answer would have been Caldari. But your points do make sense. It would seem the Amarr have the weakest frigates.

Maz3r Rakum
Gallente
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:04:00 - [7]
 

I'd say overall they are all pretty even. Gallente probably have the weakest t1 lineup, but they have great t2/faction frigs. TBH each race has some great options.

Maz's non-exhaustive frig's worth flying list
Caldari - Hookbill/Hawk
Minnmatar - Rifter/Wolf/Jag/Stileto/firetail can be nice and under estimated
Gallente - Ranis/Comet/Ishkur
Amarr - Slicer/veng/punisher/mael

Looking at the above list, I'd probably say caldari has the weakest lineup, however both hookbill and hawk are excellent ships.

TheMahdi
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:09:00 - [8]
 

I think Amarr is better than Caldari personally except in T1. If you count faction and T2, then definitely it is better. Crusader, Slicer and Sentinel alone stand out making it better.

AF wise the Vengeance is probably the toughest heavy tackler and the Retribution is one of the highest deeps for frig gangs.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:27:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 20/06/2011 21:32:48
Funny to check the forums and see this thread. I was going through frigs at work today during down time and I REALLY REALLY like the Amarr ships, but as others have said they just don't work out that well. They all either lack mid slots, or lack speed. Very disappointing. The Slicer is fast and has high enough base stats to get away with it, but that's about it. The deck also seems stacked against you when armor rigs hurt your already low speed, and speed rigs nerf your armor tank!

I'm really new so I can't make a strong statement, but it looks like the Ishkur is really overpowered on paper. If the websites are right it has over one thousand structure hit points. With a damage control on it in addition to an armor tank, that would make for a ridiculous defense.


I like the Vengeance but I have trouble coming up with a fit. I want too much in the lows especially. Armor plate, Adaptive Resist plate, Repairer, dmg control, rocket dps mods, plus speed. I guess you could go to rigs for rocket buffs but speed and armor always work against each other wherever you fit them. Makes me think I should active tank it, but then that goes against a lot of what I see on battleclinic so IDK..

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2011.06.21 04:50:00 - [10]
 

Am going to name the ones I find useful.
Minmatar
Rifter - Great T1 frig that can be fit multiple ways.
Stiletto - Fleet tackler, I prefer scram/disruptor/sebo/mwd to make things that jump into the fleet have a bad day. Not a solo boat.
Jaguar - What an AF should probably be, fast and moderately tanked. Not bad solo, not bad tackling for fleet.
Dramiel - Probably Overpowered.

Gallente
Taranis - Was awesome before they buffed the dram.
Ares - Probably not as good fleet tackle as the Stiletto but close.
Ishkur - Deadly to other small things.
Daredevil - Gatecamp ship that can make reapproaching gate nearly impossible.

Caldari
Kitsune - Ok at ewar. Shines at jamming other slower locking ewar boats.
Crow - Rocket crow isn't bad at dogfighting but I would hesitate to overly praise it.
Hookbill - I hear good things about this ship.

Amarr
Sentinel - Nasty to all other frigates. Not very useful against bigger ships unlike the Kitsune.
Malediction - Toughest inty. That can be valuable if the fleet is cmming to releive it.
Vengeance - Again very tough. Is that useful? Not as often as it would be required to make the Vengeance very desirable.
Slicer - For a frigate it has a suprisingly large sphere of death created by its lasers. Pilots that **** around and let it shoot them to long before gtting their DPS on it tend to have bad things happen to them.
Crusader - Fights very much the same way the slicer does. Does okish.

I dont know. Its hard to decide between Amarr and Caldari.

David Clausewitz
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 05:06:00 - [11]
 

Amarr

lotta good a ship can do with one ****ing midslot, and the ones without one only have two

TaluxA
Posted - 2011.06.21 10:40:00 - [12]
 

I think the caldari lineup is actually pretty good. The merlin, hookbill and hawk are all really solid ships. The neutron fit harpy is beginning to see some more use now as well - but people still continue to underestimate it. Yeah the caldari interceptors are pretty terrible but otherwise they have good frigates.

Amarr is probably the most limited frigate race, mostly because they have just have the slicer and sentinel as really standout ships.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:42:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 21/06/2011 11:42:01
Originally by: David Clausewitz
Amarr

lotta good a ship can do with one ****ing midslot, and the ones without one only have two

Spend a lot of time flying a Magnate/Retribution do you? Very Happy

Slicer,
Punisher,
Vengeance/Retribution,
Crusader/Malediction,
Sentinel,
Cruor (hey if others get pirate boats listed!!!),
Inquisitor (ya, rly! rockets for the win).

Hint: Frigate class is the most diverse and balanced of all the classes, which is why so many people have been screaming at the Dramiel because it broke the mold.

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:47:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ineka on 21/06/2011 11:55:36
All T1 frigs are crappy except the only one working fine: rifter

The Rifter is not OP, but all others are so crappy it's just awful -can't even find the correct word to describe them but crap is not bad.

Please Mr Dev's, take the Rifter has example -and don't touch that awesome frigate or I'll bite you!!- bring all others on pair so newbies and older players have pleasure blowing those awesome cheap ships in front of stations.

Learn newbies tactics with such cheap and crappy ships like they are today is not even funny. *kabouuum the noob* - heh, what happened my Rifter just farted*

Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:21:00 - [15]
 

People underestimate the Caldari lineup, which means they may be more excited about fighting you... and then dying to you.

The Rifter is good, but the Merlin can be equally as tough.

My Caldari lineup - Merlin, Crow (if fitted right, it's untouchable by anything larger than itself), Hawk, Harpy, Hookbill (one of the best faction frigs out there), Manticore.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:48:00 - [16]
 

Amarr. Cap-intensive weapons mean if you don't win fast you probably don't win at all, stability or even extended firing is really, really hard to accomplish at times.

That said, there are good ships of any race.

Firh
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:07:00 - [17]
 

I believe that most will agree upon that Minmatar has the strongest line of Frigates. I believe that dominance has now been somewhat diminished by the rocket changes. Even Caldari has a fair number of excellent PvP frigates now (some if only for their low price tag). Despite that I'd still say Caldari is the weakest.

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:34:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: David Clausewitz
Amarr

lotta good a ship can do with one ****ing midslot, and the ones without one only have two


Malediction has 3 mid-slots

But yeah, Amarr do tend to be the weakest, but in terms of interceptors, you can make a Malediction into a nasty piece of work.

Plus with trained rocket skills you get the versatility of different damage types instead of being restricted to the damage types of crystals. And it's pretty easy to make cap-stable with a pvp fitting, plus if you wanted to go for a utility high slot instead of having 3 launchers and a turret, you have room for a neut or vamp.

Plus it looks cool x

Nelson Black
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:33:00 - [19]
 

I do enjoy malediction being discussed as though it had passable dps. Laughing

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:42:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 21/06/2011 18:45:06
Originally by: Nelson Black
I do enjoy malediction being discussed as though it had passable dps. Laughing


I've killed many a Wolf with my Malediction, so what do you know? You wouldn't believe that they weren't afk or noobs would you? Even cap boosted Ishkurs, kite at 7 or so, kill their drones, then orbit right up close under the crappy blaster tracking and r.ape.

Nelson Black
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:48:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak
Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 21/06/2011 18:45:06
Originally by: Nelson Black
I do enjoy malediction being discussed as though it had passable dps. Laughing


I've killed many a Wolf with my Malediction, so what do you know? You wouldn't believe that they weren't afk or noobs would you? Even cap boosted Ishkurs, kite at 7 or so, kill their drones, then orbit right up close under the crappy blaster tracking and r.ape.


Mails or it didn't happen sport.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:54:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 21/06/2011 18:59:03
Originally by: Nelson Black
Originally by: Dorian Tormak
Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 21/06/2011 18:45:06
Originally by: Nelson Black
I do enjoy malediction being discussed as though it had passable dps. Laughing


I've killed many a Wolf with my Malediction, so what do you know? You wouldn't believe that they weren't afk or noobs would you? Even cap boosted Ishkurs, kite at 7 or so, kill their drones, then orbit right up close under the crappy blaster tracking and r.ape.


Mails or it didn't happen sport.


Fine then.

Wolf: Linkage
Wolf: Linkage

Thrasher: Linkage

Admittedly the second Wolf is rather crap. However, only a day or two ago I bested a Wolf and escaped the frig gang which wanted to help him, and after that decimated a 3 man gang of Inties with a Ranis at the head. Malediction pwns. But after that did end up getting alpha'd by a couple Thrashers.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:03:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak



Would you share your fit and thoughts on the Malediction?

I'm new and really like missiles/speed. Trying to pick a frig and people keep bouncing back and forth on the issue of the Malediction from calling it useless to praising it. Most often people say the dps is terrible. Are rockets generally weaker then small turrets even with equal skills and the right ammo?

Scorpionidae
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:07:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak

Wolf: Linkage
Wolf: Linkage




Hey Dorian o/

I don't understand why ppl always fit 200s to the wolf. I mean with 125s you get still realy good DPS and even better traking.

Scorpionidae Very Happy

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:10:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 21/06/2011 19:22:46
His Malediction Fit, though it's his only posted loss so maybe there's another one that he plays with. Edit: Derp, he actually has a couple other Malediction losses, same fit just less faction.

Originally by: Scorpionidae
I don't understand why ppl always fit 200s to the wolf. I mean with 125s you get still realy good DPS and even better traking.
Yeah, and it's the tracking that really matters, especially up close. EFT Warriors though, you cannot fix them.

Dorian Tormak
M0N0LITH
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:12:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Dorian Tormak on 21/06/2011 19:15:39
My Malediction fit: Linkage - That's an expensive version of it, in the kills I linked I was only using a full T2 fit version. Basically missiles don't care about tracking so you're free to speed tank the crap out of other frigs while not losing any tracking of your own. At first I would only fight Jags if they were no-web fits, but you can actually just outbrawl those.

Scorp, yeah 200s track bad, but I'll still beat them with 125s, they don't even scratch you in a Mal.

Edit: And yes I HAVE beat Ishkurs in it. Ask matthiastee if you don't believe me.

Nelson Black
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:17:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Dorian Tormak
.


Very nice of you to put up, but your fit is orders of magnitude more expensive than your kills. Just to point out the obvious and all.

+1 anyway for flying the male


 

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