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Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:04:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



How did the corp bankroll this?

Unfamed II
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:10:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Von Kroll
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



How did the corp bankroll this?

I helped them a bit. (ಠ_O)

Rail Gun
Caldari
The Cathedral of Flesh
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:14:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Rail Gun on 23/06/2011 01:14:26
Originally by: Unfamed II
Originally by: Von Kroll
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



How did the corp bankroll this?


I helped them a bit. (ಠ_O)

With my shiny monocle I see what you did there.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:27:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



Curious to know how you funded the corp wallet? Funding a FW corp wallet is alot tougher than doing it in hisec empire.

Rail Gun
Caldari
The Cathedral of Flesh
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.23 02:48:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Deen Wispa
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



Curious to know how you funded the corp wallet? Funding a FW corp wallet is alot tougher than doing it in hisec empire.


Funding FW corp wallet is hard? You do realise that draketrain made titan in FW in few days? Maby you guys are just doing something wrong...

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.06.23 02:53:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Rail Gun
Originally by: Deen Wispa
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.



Curious to know how you funded the corp wallet? Funding a FW corp wallet is alot tougher than doing it in hisec empire.


Funding FW corp wallet is hard? You do realise that draketrain made titan in FW in few days? Maby you guys are just doing something wrong...


You should note that Deen Vispa is fightning for gallente, so maybe it is not so easy to do isk.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 03:32:00 - [127]
 

When FW missions were really OP (you could refuse missions until you got one where you wnated it), many people trained up alts and declined missions until they were spawned in the exact system they wanted (Ladistier). They then podded their alt back to Ladi, opened mission, and then podded back to mission system to pick up another mission.

beelions!


Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:56:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 23/06/2011 09:03:30

Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, the entire time I've played FW, I've never heard of any corp that offered a ship replacement program.



When draketrain was in militia we had 100% reimbursement for ship losses that happened in fleet ops. You even got insurance money for yourself so losing ships gave you more isk.




edit.. derp guess someone already asked.


Originally by: X Gallentius
When FW missions were really OP (you could refuse missions until you got one where you wnated it), many people trained up alts and declined missions until they were spawned in the exact system they wanted (Ladistier). They then podded their alt back to Ladi, opened mission, and then podded back to mission system to pick up another mission.

beelions!




Yea but that was long before they made Draketrain. They nerf'd that long before I left Minmatar Militia to go pie and well before I rejoined FW and went Caldari. I joined Caldari with my alt about the time they started Draktrain then joined with my main not long after that.

TBH I should have farmed a hell of a lot more back then. When the BS's were selling for 800-600 mil I used to just do enough to buy my plexes and ships each month. (I hate PVE grinds) Crying or Very sad

Now I just buy toons fix them up for a bit and resell them.. Razz

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:31:00 - [129]
 

My main account Cearain ran out - and will be renewed when fw is fixed. This is an alt account. I didn't want to reveal that at first for gameplay reasons, but I also don't want to mislead people on the boards so I decided to state this fact.

I do believe the proposal I made regarding fw plexing would lead to 3 -5 good fights an hour in fw. (that assumes you have your ships and ready to go in the front line systems.) Here is the thread you will see allot of good discussion in it:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906&page=1

You can sustain that sort of fighting in eve if they would give some rewards for plexing. If you fight for minor plexes a well fit t1 frigate will cost about 10-15 mill. A well fit t1 cruiser will cost about 30 mill after insurance.

You shouldn't die in every good fight. And if you are average at plexing then the rewards from plexing *should* cover about 1/2 to 2/3s of the cost of your ship. If you are very good then perhaps the rewards will allow you to break even or perhaps get a small profit. Of course that is not the case now but it *should* be when they fix faction war.

Your comments about how this is not done in eve is somewhat correct. That is a huge failing of the game that CCP refuses to implement mechanics that lead to action when you play eve. The plex mechanic is almost there but it needs some tweaks.

What you say about the logistics of moving in ships would become very important if they changed the game mechanics to lead to more battles. Imo this would make the game better not worse.

Just imagine how ďawesomeĒ eve would be if you really did lose 5 ships in good fights. That might mean you had 7-15 fights total in 2-3 hours of play!

People so often throw out ideas they like about fw without even thinking what they want to accomplish in the time they play the game. I want lots of exciting fights.

I want CCP to accomplish this: mechanics that reliably supply 3 good, (non-arranged) fights per hour of play! Not arena stuff but fights for occupancy where everyone is genuinely using their best strategy to gain occupancy for their faction and by doing this you naturally end up with allot of small scale quality pvp fights.

Before you start saying thatís impossible, ask yourself if you think that would be a worthy goal.

The next step is to consider how it could be done. Donít just decide itís impossible because no where else in eve do you get that. Null sec is designed for large scale fleet fights. Low sec and fw never really had a focus on trying to accomplish this.
CCP can do it. But, of course, they havenít done it yet. They havenít even tried!


Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 21/06/2011 19:13:01

Originally by: jackaloped
Originally by: Mekhana
Edited by: Mekhana on 21/06/2011 18:44:02
I get plenty of good fights at certain times. Usually within a hour or two from the same window.

Sometimes fights will even be arranged between both sides.

The secret is to know when to be around or simply learn to do something in the spare time.






Arranged fights are proof that the mechanics are failing.

Plus having a good fight every hour or 2 is pretty poor. You should be able to reliably get 3 good fights in an hour, sometimes 5 or 6. Otherwise this is really just a game for people with way too much time on their hands.



I think you have an awful lot of wishful thinking and don't understand reality so well. EVE isn't WOW arena PVP, it's a bit more complicated and risk is involved with fights. Meaning ship losses can only be sustained at a reasonable rate for most players involved.

Tossing away 5 "properly fitted" ships in a day for example is not sustainable for most players wallet, as well as replacement time wise. (ie takes time to move in resupplies to most forward bases)

This isn't a respawn with new ship game.


Chatgrus
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:43:00 - [130]
 

I love to exploit plexes, QCATS is a corp of exploiters and Damar has been right about everything all alonge.

Zaraxis Uchonela
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:04:00 - [131]
 

Quote:
Reduce station camping by not allowing the enemy faction to dock up up or by dramatically extending the time it takes for them to switch in and out of switches.


I like this idea :)

Draycen Trell
Amarr
1st Praetorianorum Fabri
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:18:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Draycen Trell on 24/06/2011 19:19:00
Just had a idea, how about the ranks for militia pilots give you npc wing-men you can call on when plexing or pvp'ing. Say for your first rank you get a spider drone you can call on when you need him..say once every 24 hours? Then as you rank up you get better wing-men. So at the top of the militia rank tree you can call on a faction cruiser or something (subject to balancing) once a day/week or something. You can only use these in fw low sec plexes and obviously you can not use a cruiser in a minor plex.

(Yes, closest thing to a wow pet :) )

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:49:00 - [133]
 

I'd still like to know how Draketrain (the Corp) bankrolled a 100% ship replacement program. If it was from running missions, that's more of an individual thing.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:40:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Von Kroll
I'd still like to know how Draketrain (the Corp) bankrolled a 100% ship replacement program. If it was from running missions, that's more of an individual thing.

Taxation baby!

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:30:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Taxation baby!


That's just giving them their own isk back then...

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:44:00 - [136]
 

I think we have a great compromise here: VP = Aurum, not LP. Discus....

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.25 19:13:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
I think we have a great compromise here: VP = Aurum, not LP. Discus....


Then you wouldn't have to pay cash for 6% implants, upgraded ships, and noble ammo.

In other words, never going to happen.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:46:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Chatgrus
I love to exploit plexes, QCATS is a corp of exploiters and Damar has been right about everything all alonge.


Confirming that QCATS are dirty, dirty exploiters (who ride polar bears to work). Very Happy

IbanezLaney
Caldari
Dingo took my corp name
Posted - 2011.06.27 12:54:00 - [139]
 

I don't get to play a lot these days so the FW missions mean I can make the best of the time I do play due to their high rewards.
Sell some items from the LP store and then I am free to lose ships until I have no isk then the process starts again. Missions are a must for me cause I am really good at losing ships.

Even if people do farm the missions - other people need them so they can afford to be in FW. I do like the idea of LP for pvp wins but people would just put alts in opposite militia and farming LP would be way easier.

Best way to fix FW would be to make having control of a system useful.

Having control over a system should mean the gate guns and station don't fire at the navy that now owns it.

Basically - If you own the system, its defenses should never fire at you. This would make plexing an attractive option by making systems worth fighting for.

Master Andrew
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:33:00 - [140]
 

FW plexing would be far more inclusive and interesting for the regular militia pilots if there was actualy some benifit to capping and flipping systems, atm there is some good pvp to be had, especially in the minor plexes
- personally as i have said before - i would like there to be a benifit to capping systems - such as denial of access to station/facilities if your militia doesnt have occupancy (this would hurt the fw mission farmer in the wallet) or random spawns of friendly npc in systems you own, hten there would be a reason to actually plex other than rp'ing reasons

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 12:38:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Super Chair
Confirming that QCATS are dirty, dirty exploiters (who ride polar bears to work). Very Happy
chatgrus on her way to work.

Bad Messenger
draketrain
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:12:00 - [142]
 

1st thing to do to fix FW is change ship restrictions for FW complexes. Change it so that pirate faction ships can enter same plexes than same size t2 ships.

Current situation has nothing to do with new players who take their first steps on pvp. All you can now see in plexes is faction an pirate faction ships because those are counted as t1 ships.


Seraphine Keratuus
Royal Order of Security Specialists
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:54:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Bad Messenger
1st thing to do to fix FW is change ship restrictions for FW complexes. Change it so that pirate faction ships can enter same plexes than same size t2 ships.

Current situation has nothing to do with new players who take their first steps on pvp. All you can now see in plexes is faction an pirate faction ships because those are counted as t1 ships.




This so much its not even funny anymore.

Damar Rocarion
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:10:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Seraphine Keratuus
This so much its not even funny anymore.


Fully supported. Would love to have proper cruiser duels in mediums but I know opposition will always bring the biggest gun (= pirate cruiser) so i'll do the same. Nobody wants to lose so power creep is pretty inevitable.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 18:04:00 - [145]
 


Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:05:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 28/06/2011 20:06:14
I'd love to Fly Vexors, Ruptures & Rifters again knowing that the other guy will be in something appropriate to fight against, instead of them always being in Cynabals, Drams, Dare Devils or some other faction ship.

Some of the funnest solo PVP I've had in this game, was just jumping in a Vexor and going out to see what I could catch. Problem being people would still just fly the faction stuff and would likely ignore the plexes they couldn't get in. Al but the hard core plexers anyway.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.28 21:21:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius

Support ship restrictions in plexes


I did support it. Thanks for proposing it.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.06.29 05:43:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 28/06/2011 20:06:14
I'd love to Fly Vexors, Ruptures & Rifters again knowing that the other guy will be in something appropriate to fight against, instead of them always being in Cynabals, Drams, Dare Devils or some other faction ship.

Some of the funnest solo PVP I've had in this game, was just jumping in a Vexor and going out to see what I could catch. Problem being people would still just fly the faction stuff and would likely ignore the plexes they couldn't get in. Al but the hard core plexers anyway.


One reason why there should be incentive to plex. I'm still for my VP for faction dessie, faction ewar cruisers, faction BC for victory points Very Happy Maybe one of these days i'll get off my rear and type up a proposal...

Alain Colcer
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:14:00 - [149]
 

Interesting thread, wish i had seen it before...

An overall review and refinement of FW is indeed needed, but i don't believe it needs to be a total change over, let me explain a few points:

1) FW missions: they are content designed for people who are less PvP-inclined than the rest; they are still exposed to PvP with the beacon being visible by everyone, and also by having to travel low-sec systems.

2) Complexes: currently the tiered approach to ship size does give the ability to set up fights of "roughly" the same size and firepower.

3) Bunkers: using bunkers in the same way null-sec outposts are conquered provide a good chance to mount a counter offensive, and also exposes players to a mechanic that happens in null-sec.

4) Specific LP store: items only sold by the militia corporations were a good incentive to make items there either cheaper or unique, and therefore more profitable for those who actually earned such LP.

The above are probably the good aspects, however, FW lacks in the following:

a) Missions are not important at all in the overall "occupancy" mechanic, they are just ISK and LP faucets.

b) Plexing is a time-consuming (read boring), often badly balanced mechanic

c) There is no real benefit to "claim" or reap any reward out of conquering a system after shooting the bunker.

So here is my view on the matter:

FIRST
Mission stays as they are, a source of isk, standings and LP, along with the exposure they have in low-sec through visible beacons. However there is a slight change, they DO count, in a miniscule way, to the Victory points needed to capture a system. Say, people run 5 missions in a single it then shows as contested, and could progress down that state until is vulnerable if an obscene amount of missions are performed there in a short timeframe (10k ? a day). This will not change the behavior of mission runners' per-se, but would make "hunting" said runners a side goal.

SECOND
Plexes are completely changed, they will continue limiting ship size (with the adjustment of faction frigs/cruisers to the upper sized plex), but will no longer have a time completion mechanic. Instead they will grant LP when completed by an appropriate sized "fleet" just like incursion sites (concord pays isk according to fleet size, in this case it would be LP) by clearing the NPCs there. Given that we have multiple sized plexes (outposts, facilities, installations) the framework can easily be adapted to have sites that require 2-3 frigs and others that require 5-6 frigs, or cruisers or whatever.

THIRD
When Bunkers are under attack, they will automatically send a distress message in their appropriate militia channel, alerting pilots and inviting them to muster a defensive fleet. Conquering a Bunker will grant a massive LP boost to all in grid.


That for me would fix quite a bit in FW.

Psychotic Sidekick
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:18:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Super Chair

navy faction ewar cruisers


I can see patch day now: everyone and their alt(s) in the Caldari Militia will cash out on the new Blackbird Navy Issue. A BNI blob will form and make its way down to Heydieles.. it will be a nano blob orbiting station at 100k at 2000m/s and jamming everything that undocks with the sole purpose of trolling the Gallente at how much better their navy EWAR cruiser is. The Gallente defense fleet will rally in their Celestis Navy Issues to try to damp out the blackbirds but to no avail..


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