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Author Topic

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:56:00 - [1]
 


StockID Description Qty Price Subtotal
FS-174-OE "Ultima Eve" Intel Core i7 2600K 3.40GHz @ 4.60GHz DDR3
Sandybridge System
1 1,748.31 1,748.31
SW-127-MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit OEM
GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5
MY-094-KS 16GB Upgrade
FS-183-OE Overclock Selected
FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
HS-003-CS Corsair Hydro H70 High-Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (Socket
LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366/AM2/AM3)
CD-138-SA Samsung SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BluRay ROM DVDRW DL & RAM
Lightscribe SATA-II Optical Drive - Black (Retail)
HD-248-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 32MB Cache - OEM
(ST31000524AS)
CA-028-CS Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850 High Performance 850W
Modular Power Supply (CMPSU-850AXUK)
CP-365-IN Intel Core i7-2600K 3.40GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155
Processor - OEM
MB-342-GI Gigabyte Z68X-UD3P Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard
MY-094-KS Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9
1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX)
GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics
Card
HD-075-OC OCZ Agility 3 60GB 2.5" SATA-3 Solid State Hard Drive
(AGT3-25SAT3-60G)
CA-036-CS Corsair Obsidian 650D Gaming Midi-Tower - Black (with Fan
Controller Repair Kit)
MO-046-OK OcUK 24" True HD Widescreen LED Monitor - Black 4 108.32 433.28
Page 1 of 2
Printed by Phil.Fraser
All prices include VAT unless otherwise stated VAT Registration : GB747963969Total:
Subtotal:
VAT (20.0%)
2,181.59
436.32
2,617.9

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:04:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:15:52
Originally by: Ladrial
Intel Core i7 2600K 3.40GHz

Overkill, but eh, why not.
Personally, I would have preferred an "old style" i7 that can handle triple channel RAM and overclocking is NOT "turbo-boost" based, but manually selectable.
If you're going for overkill, get an i7-990X == OVERKILL !!!

Quote:
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit

More than sufficient.

Quote:
GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5

Display Connectors: 2x Dual-Link DVI-I & 1x Mini-HDMI 1.4a (Includes HDMI & VGA Adapters)
You can't use 4 monitors with just one of those.

You'll need two video cards.
Feel free to downgrade to 2x GTX 560Ti (it's actually cheaper and much faster overall) or even 2x GTX 560 (much cheaper, and still a bit faster overall).
Plus you get 2 GB video RAM total that way.

EDIT : oh, you may want to change the Gigabyte Z68X-UD3P Intel Z68 mobo for something else as well in that case.
Quote:
Expansion Slots
1 x PCI Express x16 slots, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
* For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.
1 x PCI Express x16 slots, running at x8 (PCIEX8)
* The PCIEX8 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot. When the PCIEX8 slot is populated with a PCI Express graphics card, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode.
3 x PCI Express x1 slot
2 x PCI slots

Find one that supports two PCI-E slots both running at x16 for best performance.

Chuffer
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:05:00 - [3]
 

Yes, apart from the GTX580 which afaik will only drive two screens independently.

I think you got the thread title wrong though, it should probably have something in there about epeen, wealth and rubbing peoples faces in it. Consider revising it pl0x.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:08:00 - [4]
 

If it's running at 2,600 Kelvin you've got some serious problems.

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:10:00 - [5]
 

Why do you need a Blu Ray player?

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:12:00 - [6]
 

there are 2 cards the same 2x gtx 580s

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:21:00 - [7]
 

Don't take what I say too harshly, I am honestly trying to help


SW-127-MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit OEM
Home premium is a fairly good choice, if you want other languages or encription you would have to get an upgrade, if no language or incription packs are needed, home should do fine.

GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5
By who? because it makes a differance these days, MSI, ASUS, Gigabyte, EVGA, PALIT are all good makers, we dont have PNY so much where I live but i would stick to EVGA, MSI, ASUS.


FS-183-OE Overclock Selected
Go on youtube and see how people overclock their i7-2600

FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
FG-003-XG Xigmatek 120mm Crystal White LED Fan
The corsair case is closed, spend your money on more silent non LED fans. They are all kinda the same

HS-003-CS Corsair Hydro H70 High-Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (Socket
LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366/AM2/AM3)
This is an OK choice but i have been hearing some grumbling of decaying performance due to the microchannels oxidiesing over time. So I would Suggest a Noctua D-14. It cools slightly better with less noise and is standard air cooling. Also with an overclock you may need the airflow over the northpridge and power array.

CD-138-SA Samsung SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BluRay ROM DVDRW DL & RAM
Lightscribe SATA-II Optical Drive - Black (Retail)
ok I guess

HD-248-SE Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 32MB Cache - OEM
(ST31000524AS)
Try a Western Digital Caviar black, its sort of the best hard drive around. If you want to save a little money go for the Spinpoint F3. This drive has been getting rave reviews for its pricepoint.

CA-028-CS Corsair Professional Series Gold AX850 High Performance 850W
Modular Power Supply (CMPSU-850AXUK)
850 leave a lot of room for SLI if Nvidea cards. So I approve.

CP-365-IN Intel Core i7-2600K 3.40GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155
Processor - OEM
Most expensive of the sandybridge lineup, granted it has good performance but the 2500k was a better dollar value if thats what you are going for. I should also note that only K models are overclockable.


MB-342-GI Gigabyte Z68X-UD3P Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard
If you are going to use a 2600K chip and overclocking then I suggest getting a bit more robust board. The UD5 is only slightly more expensive and I have more confidence in its power and northbridge cooler for overclocking. Also you may want to look at the $220 range ASUS boards wich are getting good reviews on places like HardOCP, PCper, TweekTown and Tech Report

MY-094-KS Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9
1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX)
Ok I guess, ram is now and always has been a gamble. Each stick is unique and it depends on how it likes your system. I would have personally gone for the Corsair Vengence series or even the G.skill Sniper series.


GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics
Card
If you are going to use 2 cards in SLI then you probably need that 850 power supply.

HD-075-OC OCZ Agility 3 60GB 2.5" SATA-3 Solid State Hard Drive
(AGT3-25SAT3-60G)
the Z68 chipset is a P67 like chipset with one additional feature, it allows for SSD caching. This means the SSD will act like the hard drives chach and pull commonly used data from the SSD instead of the HD. This increases system speed without haveing to pour money into an expensive SSD. Also max size for this feature is 64GB. You can also go the P67 route and get a larger SSD.

CA-036-CS Corsair Obsidian 650D Gaming Midi-Tower - Black (with Fan
Controller Repair Kit)
Good choice

MO-046-OK OcUK 24" True HD Widescreen LED Monitor - Black 4 108.32 433.28
Page 1 of 2
I dont know monitors very well

All prices include VAT unless otherwise stated VAT Registration : GB747963969Total:
Subtotal:
VAT (20.0%)
2,181.59
436.32
2,617.9

holy poo i thought CA sales tax was bad

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:33:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Ladrial on 16/06/2011 16:35:35
They have just got back to me suggesting I go for a better cpu if i dont mind spending the extra cash:


The "Ultima Carbon" features an Intel Core i7 990X 3.46GHz overclocked to 4.20GHz, combined with the latest Nvidia Geforce GTX 580 graphic cards in SLI to provide unlimited perfomance. Mastering all concepts of computing the "Ultima Carbon" flys through file and data transfers with it's Crucial C300 128GB 6Gb/s SSD combined with the Western Digital Cavier Black 1TB 6Gb/s HDD which offers maximum storage at lightning speeds.

Why Should You Buy This System?
- Featuring Intel Core i7 990X 3.46GHz overclocked to 4.20GHz
- With x2 GTX 580 graphics cards configured in SLI, frame rates are smashed and brought into a whole new zone of gaming.
- Intel "Elmcrest" 120GB 6 Gb/s SSD and Western Digital Cavier Black 1TB 6Gb/s provide storage and speed in perfect unison.

System Specification
- Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D
- Power Supply: Corsair AX1200 Professional 100% Modular Power Supply
- CPU: Intel Core i7 990X 3.46GHz overclocked to 4.20GHz
- Motherboard: Asus P6X58D-E Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard
- Cooler: Corsair H70 CPU Cooler
- RAM: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Tri-Channel
- Hard Drives: Intel "Elmcrest" 120GB SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive and
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache
- Graphics Card: x2 GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5 in SLI
- Sound : 7.1 Channel Sound (On-Board)
- Optical Drive: Samsung SH-B123L/RSBP 12x BD-ROM / 16x DVD Writer Drive - Black

3099.98 inc VAT

of course then add the monitors

Does this second option warrant the extra price - tag?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:40:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:44:16

The question is, what do you want to do with it, and do you really have that much money that you can afford to basically waste it ?

If it is just 4x FHD monitor, 4x EVE-in-space clients at 60+ FPS, it's completely and totally overkill, even the initial one (assuming you means 2x 580), you can probably make a config that handles that one just fine for under 1000 GBP.
If it's 4x CQ, then yeah, it's only a bit overkill. Still AT LEAST twice as expensive as what you'd need though.


X amount of cash today will buy you a machine almost 2 times as powerful, with 2 times as much RAM and twice the HDD capacity, eating a bit less power to function, in under 2 years from now.
So better spend a lot less today and keep getting new ones each year, hopefully selling the old ones to some suckers, but even without selling the old ones, if you upgrade every 2 instead of every 5 or 6 years, you're still going to end up spending less cash overall, and have more appropriate "firepower" for more time (not to speak of plenty of somewhat adequate spares in case any one of the newer ones croak).

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:42:00 - [10]
 

If you really want better performance, can you wait about 4 months? The Llano chips are comeing out soon, we saw the x78 boards were showing up at Computex this month, so that means the new stuff is going to be out for the holidays.

The new chipset is LGA2011. This is a HUGE slice of silicon, so it should rightly beat the pants off of the x58 (990x)chipset series. From the pictures I have seen, it looks to be the enthusiast chip of late 2011.

Chuffer
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:44:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Ladrial

Why Should You Buy This System?
- Featuring Intel Core i7 990X 3.46GHz overclocked to 4.20GHz
- With x2 GTX 580 graphics cards configured in SLI, frame rates are smashed and brought into a whole new zone of gaming.
- Intel "Elmcrest" 120GB 6 Gb/s SSD and Western Digital Cavier Black 1TB 6Gb/s provide storage and speed in perfect unison.



DONT DO IT!! Stick with the original CPU. The i7 990X is an LGA1366 socket CPU which is pretty much a dead socket. Its waaaaay over priced and basically a dead end in terms of upgrade path.

Kazini Jax
Gallente
Starlight Operations
Starlight Network
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:52:00 - [12]
 

One GTX 580 card will not cut it except at low/med-detail with all options on or high-detail with all options off (maybe just AA off) if you plan on running the game across all 4 monitors (or a single run on each monitor). 2 GTX 580s will probably get you to High-detail and all options on, with max AA.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:54:00 - [13]
 

both options have 2 cards the first just lists them not in the same place, one is further down, what i want to know is if the second system is much better than the first as its quite allot more cash.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:55:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:59:02
Originally by: Chuffer
pretty much a dead socket. Its waaaaay over priced and basically a dead end in terms of upgrade path.

Let's be honest - when was the last time you ever upgraded only your CPU and kept your old motherboard ?
I've never done that, and I swapped plenty PCs in my long PC-ownership lifetime.

Originally by: Ladrial
both options have 2 cards the first just lists them not in the same place, one is further down, what i want to know is if the second system is much better than the first as its quite allot more cash.

Gaming nowadays (especially at 4x FHD monitor resolutions) is far more GPU-limited than CPU-limited.
Most likely even the initial cheaper CPU is already too much (won't actually be fully used except once in a blue moon).

The only reason to want the latter CPU is if you plan to run some apps that rely on CPU power almost exclusively because they can't access the GPU (some video encoders, some photo/video processing apps, etc).

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:04:00 - [15]
 

ok so you think the first option is more than able to do what i need it to. All I wanna do is play 4 accounts on four monitors good graphics and lag free.

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:05:00 - [16]
 

AM-fricken-D. I hate people who let noobs wast money with dead end Intel Sockets just because on paper they are "faster", and if you go forward with the current person your trusting to build your next gaming computer then you should just send the money to me and go anhero. kthxbi.

Is Intel superior on paper, yes.

Is it necessarily in most cases, HELL FRICKEN NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:07:00 - [17]
 

so what do you suggest then?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:10:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 17:22:10

Originally by: Ladrial
ok so you think the first option is more than able to do what i need it to. All I wanna do is play 4 accounts on four monitors good graphics and lag free.

i5-2300 (not even the K version) with 2x 1 GB GTX 460 should be enough for that, as long as you mean just the space part.
Hell, Phenom II X4 965 Black with 2x HD 5770 should do just fine too.

Just look how much that would cost you (185+2x150=485$ cheapest new on newegg for Inter/NVIDIA, or 135+2x110=355$ for AMD/ATI) for just the CPU+GPUs and ask yourself what the eff were you thinking.
Just ONE of your two "desired" graphics cards would be more expensive than that, nevermind the other card and the CPU.

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:16:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Col Callahan on 16/06/2011 17:17:32
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 17:14:46

Originally by: Ladrial
ok so you think the first option is more than able to do what i need it to. All I wanna do is play 4 accounts on four monitors good graphics and lag free.

i5-2300 (not even the K version) with 2x GTX 460 should be enough for that, as long as you mean just the space part.
Hell, Phenom II X4 965 Black with 2x HD 5770 should do just fine too.

Just look how much that would cost you (185+2x150=485$ on newegg, or ) and ask yourself what the eff were you thinking.


THIS!!!!!

Women, I love you. You have brought sanity were there was none.

Chuffer
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:18:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Chuffer on 16/06/2011 17:21:11
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:59:02
Originally by: Chuffer
pretty much a dead socket. Its waaaaay over priced and basically a dead end in terms of upgrade path.

Let's be honest - when was the last time you ever upgraded only your CPU and kept your old motherboard ?
I've never done that, and I swapped plenty PCs in my long PC-ownership lifetime.

Originally by: Ladrial
both options have 2 cards the first just lists them not in the same place, one is further down, what i want to know is if the second system is much better than the first as its quite allot more cash.

Gaming nowadays (especially at 4x FHD monitor resolutions) is far more GPU-limited than CPU-limited.
Most likely even the initial cheaper CPU is already too much (won't actually be fully used except once in a blue moon).

The only reason to want the latter CPU is if you plan to run some apps that rely on CPU power almost exclusively because they can't access the GPU (some video encoders, some photo/video processing apps, etc).


I'll admit that with intel its pretty much impossible to upgrade your CPU without changing your mobo and RAM, but AMD are still pretty good. But yeah, the last time I got away with a simple CPU only upgrade was, um, years ago... I usually just go for the low end intel chips now and overclock the crap out of them. Still going strong with my i7 920.

But still, the CPU he's talking about is a con, totally over priced and not much better than the 2600k, and on a socket that's about to be retired. The only thing I like about the older socket is the triple channel memory, which is also why I'm waiting for the high-end sandy chips, or even the next gen chips, before I upgrade.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:29:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 17:36:17

I have a crummy i5-760 bought at a discount from normal price before the sandybridges even came out and a single 1GB GTX 460, playing between HD and FHD resolution (1600x1024 windowed mode) at 85 FPS (long live CRTs and vsynch on) with max detail (but with AA off - noticeable GPU usage hike and negligibly better image quality), and my CPU usage while single-client station-spinning with the current TQ build is around 15% max (that's actually a big improvement, it used to hover much higher with the old UI) with GPU usage below 40%.
Twisted Evil

An i5-2300 is actually slightly faster than an i5-760 Smile
If I would be using a 60 Hz LCD screen, the CPU would probably hover around 12% max and the GPU below 30%, probably below 35% in FHD resolution.
If I would add one more GTX 460 and ran 4 clients in [email protected], maybe in fleet combat situations I might get close to 100% usage on both CPU and GPU, but I doubt it.

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:48:00 - [22]
 

when running two cards and four screens be sure to use "interveral Immetidate" in the eve cleint gfx options or you'll get about 10 fps.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:52:00 - [23]
 

ALWAYS use "interval one". Only exception, if you want to benchmark the performance. Then when you're done, turn it back.
If you're getting a drastically reduced FPS by turning to "interval one" instead of "interval immediate" (as opposed to just a very mild drop), you might want to look at your hardware/drivers/software/whatever setup, something is very fishy there.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:53:00 - [24]
 

I am a computer novice are you guys saying the first option represents beter value for money and will do the job just fine?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:56:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
I am a computer novice are you guys saying the first option represents beter value for money and will do the job just fine?

No, we're saying the second option is a TOTAL AND COMPLETE waste of money, while the first one is just a more regular e-p33ny waste of money.
You can get what you want for less than half, maybe a third of the first cheaper option you presented.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:14:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Ladrial on 16/06/2011 18:18:32
Edited by: Ladrial on 16/06/2011 18:16:49
So the first option will do what i want it to do then?

I dont mind if its overkill I dont know much about pcs, so like i did with the one I have now im happy to spend maybe too much cash if it means i havent gotta touch the thing for 5yrs +.

Is that the sort of thing that system (the one i opened the post with) will do? If so im happy.

I just want to play four accounts on four monitors graphically maxed out, but perhaps more importantly I dont want to upgrade bits or get anything else for a good few years.

Will that do what i am saying? I do not want to have to upgrade this or that if the game changes or gets more demanding, I know thats an odd approach but thats what i prefer.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:30:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 18:35:34
_

Here's some middle-ground.

180$ AMD Phenom II 1090T Black (6 core @ 3.2GHz)
155$ ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890FX (dual x16 mode CrossfireX)
2x 200$ GIGABYTE GV-R687OC-1GD Radeon HD 6870 1GB
145$ G.SKILL ECO 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1600, CL7, 1.35V
150$ Western Digital Caviar Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
90$ Thermaltake TR2 RX 750W Bronze W0382RU
= 1,120 USD + however much the actual PC case and a DVD writer would cost (and keyboard, mouse, monitors, extra case fans and whatever else you want - SCREW BLUERAY).
Let's say another 180 USD for case and the rest (without the monitors) to get a nice, round 1300 USD.

Even adding 20% VAT and rounding up to 1600 USD for this and that, that's still only around 990 GBP.
Your initial box listed a price roughly two times and a half higher.

AND EVEN THIS MUCH CHEAPER MACHINE IS OVERKILL FOR WHAT YOU NEED.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:34:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Ladrial on 16/06/2011 18:37:00
so why are the intel options so much more expensive then? Are they less future proof/up-gradeable or are the intel just better? I am not argueing you obviously know much more about this than me im just trying to understand, help me!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:39:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 18:46:20

Originally by: Ladrial
so why are the intel options so much more expensive then? Are they less future proof/ungradeable or are the intel just better?

That's not it. An i5-2500 (without the k) is about 210$ (just 30$ extra), a decent mobo for it not much over the AM3 one either.
You just picked each and every one of your components to be one that is complete overkill and with a horrible price/performance ratio.
Or better said, they saw you are somebody who doesn't know what he wants (and much less about PCs or how some hardware will perform) so shoved their "can't sell this easy" gear down your throat, and you didn't even blink, so they kept pushing for even more ludicrous gear with even worse price/performance ratios and a lot of unnecessary bling.

It's like some stuff in EVE. 10% better, costs almost twice as much. Laughing
You just have to know where to stop asking for "more power".

P.S. You don't need liquid cooling, the stock fan will do fine if you don't overclock (and you shouldn't need to). You don't need a zillion LED fans, a couple regular ones in a large enough case will give you sufficient air flow. You don't really need a SSD, a decent HDD will do fine. You don't need the latest CPU/GPU, one that's one or even two steps behind will work almost as good at half the price. And so on and so forth.

kai freeborn
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:41:00 - [30]
 

just get 4 pc's and then 3 friends to use the others, anything else still wont beat the lag as your pc isnt the cause of it


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