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blankseplocked Q. for a DEV: Why is CCP removing the hangar view as an option?
 
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Snake Scofield
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:10:00 - [31]
 

Im just gonna dock quickly to change ammo/hardeners.

Doh.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:11:00 - [32]
 

the "lightness" of the client has been a major attraction for me to eve.

I like to keep a game open while i'm sometimes doing other things on the web, and in the end that makes me play more. (whether thats good for me or not is another question... does it distract me from work or does it let me do some work , checking and responding to emails, looking something up etc, while playing the game?)

In general I like to have many programs open.. if i need to close eve because I'm helping my kids on and off on an illustrator project and the two together are taxing on my video card and memory, thats definitely a bad thing.

I tend to turn all my graphics settings to low in games... even though I now have a pretty good computer (at the start of my five year replacement cycle)

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:13:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99

I most certainly wouldn't be a happy customer if design decisions now and in future were going to be motivated by a cash-shop.


Prepare to not be a happy customer.

Kewso
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:14:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Kewso on 15/06/2011 20:14:23
I don't get why people are worried about older systems

my pc is older it's a dual core amd 3800 with 2 gigs kingston hyperx ram
video card is a geforce 9800 1 gig memory on windows xp sp2 32 bit

runs eve at like 200 fps with vsync off but i keep vsync on just so to keep things cooler. I was getting 80-100 fps in CQ

and this is like 4-5 year old system.. if your computer is older than that it's time to upgrade and stop whining like some tard.


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:16:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
For the record: I have a 1 year old high end gaming laptop with a 330M Geforce and 6 gigs of memory and a I7-CPU that I play EVE on.

When I tried the most recent CQ test on duality, Loading times were substantially higher due to CQ being loaded.
When I tried to run 2 accounts docked (in space is fine) my game started running rough.

Even with 6 Gigs of memory to use, its a massive increase in demand on my system compared to what eve uses now.



You have a mobile graphics chipset: what did you expect? The 330M is 6.8x slower than my GTX 580, and is comparable to a weak GeForce 7800 GS.

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:24:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 15/06/2011 20:28:46
Originally by: Ranka Mei

You have a mobile graphics chipset: what did you expect? The 330M is 6.8x slower than my GTX 580, and is comparable to a weak GeForce 7800 GS.


Its still capable of running many new games among which the Witcher 2 on medium settings and Starcraft 2 on highest settings.

Regardless, this GPU is capable of running several EVE clients without a problem as is. I paid 2000 euros for this rig a year ago, you really can't say its outdated.

H.T.F.U. simply can not apply here, we are talking about a game that's played by a large demographic, a sudden mandatory increase in system resource requirements could mean the weaker part of the player demographic suddenly can't properly play the game, not the wisest business decision a company could make.

The problem can be avoided however by simply not making Captains Quarters a mandatory feature by making it optional, preserving the hangar view as an alternative for those people.

Not too long ago I read that Activision/Blizzard canceled an update on their WOW netcode that would have improved the network performance on their game for 99% of all players. The update however caused significant network problems on the remaining 1 % of the player base. When they eventually implemented the functionality they did so by allowing players (this 1%) to toggle to the old netcode.

(Yes I know I mentioned WOW, get over it, its an example).

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:50:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Its still capable of running many new games among which the Witcher 2 on medium settings and Starcraft 2 on highest settings.




But you're not trying to run Witcher 2 and Starcraft 2 twice like you are with Eve.

Games (MMOs) evolve and the specs needed to run them evolve, even the required WoW specs have evolved over time.

The problem here seem to be the amount of resources required have jumped quite a bit, coupled with the fact CCP encourage people to have more than one account. The fact they do encourage people to have more than one account suggests to me they should have an option to load the old hanger at least for the time being.



Bill Serkoff2
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:14:00 - [38]
 

Signed hardcore.

Aglaia Adrastos
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:15:00 - [39]
 

/Signed

Captain Mung
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:26:00 - [40]
 

Why is it removed? So CCP can force their semi-******ed ideas down all their customers throats. Nevermind that many people want to at least have the option to stay in their pod and that it's "immersion breaking" in an update that supposed to "immerse" the players in EVE.

Djavo
Midas Tycho
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:31:00 - [41]
 

Completely unrelated but I really wish I could have just a plain black space background, not all this nebula ****e, nice and dark, black, dark, black, pitch black, can't see... awesome.

WiseMan Ari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:37:00 - [42]
 

my biggest issue with this, is that we're loosing alot of functionality with the old hangars. I've always double clicked on the ship floating in station to open my cargo bay, and right clicked to open any of the other bays, like drone and fuel. Now i'll have to have the ships in station view open constantly to do that, and as i've always had "merge items and ships into station panel" ticked on, i'll now have to drop that option, and instead constantly have my ship and items hangars up for the same functionality.
So basicly CCP is by forcing me to watch their pretty avatars, making it so i don't actually see anything in the station as my screen will be pretty much filled with open hangars

Lonehawk
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:40:00 - [43]
 

Unfortunately, we are dealing with a "company" here, not a friend. This company is out to make a profit and works by many formulas, this being one of them:

Time = Money.

The less time it takes us (the company) to get things done, the more money we make.

The more time it takes for them (the customers) to get anything done, the more money we make.

It's as simple as that really and expecting them to leave that mindset is like expecting a pyromaniac to sit around and twiddle his thumbs in a match factory. Razz

Sad but true. I will try to endure what ccp is doing, but if they go too far and break the game too much, I ain't gonna complain about it, I'll just quit and let my actions speak (as they always yell louder than words). Cool

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:55:00 - [44]
 

Yes, but considering the Hangar view is something that is already in the game and functional.
At the simplest we are talking about the following to recreate the current hangar environment based of the CQ.

1 - Not or unloading the CQ, leaving just the hangar environment.
2 - switching to the original controls for the hangar.
3 - Using a different camera that centered around the ship.
4 - Re positioning the ships to the hangar center.
5 - Adding a button to switch between these 2 states.

I'm aware this won't make it into the upcoming Incarna release. But it shouldn't have to take till the next expansion either to reinstate the hangar view either.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:51:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Razin on 15/06/2011 23:52:59
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Hyperforce99
For the record: I have a 1 year old high end gaming laptop with a 330M Geforce and 6 gigs of memory and a I7-CPU that I play EVE on.

When I tried the most recent CQ test on duality, Loading times were substantially higher due to CQ being loaded.
When I tried to run 2 accounts docked (in space is fine) my game started running rough.

Even with 6 Gigs of memory to use, its a massive increase in demand on my system compared to what eve uses now.


You have a mobile graphics chipset: what did you expect? The 330M is 6.8x slower than my GTX 580, and is comparable to a weak GeForce 7800 GS.

You're missing a major point: why worry about upgrading your resources to run fluff content that adds exactly zero to EVE gameplay?

When (If) CCP adds some compelling game mechanics to Incarna they will find that players will use it even if they have to push extra interface buttans or upgrade their hardware to be able to do it. It's that simple.

As things currently stand I want my ship-spinning hangar and a buttan in case I want to disembark. Why would you be against that???

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:58:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 15/06/2011 16:56:22I'm making this thread in an attempt to get a straight answer from one of CCPs Developers.

For how many times has this been asked by both myself and other people, and yet I still have not seen a straight answer to the question.


"Incarna needs to be enforced to be compelling."

That's why.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:01:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 15/06/2011 16:56:22I'm making this thread in an attempt to get a straight answer from one of CCPs Developers.

For how many times has this been asked by both myself and other people, and yet I still have not seen a straight answer to the question.


"Incarna needs to be enforced to be compelling."

That's why.


It doesn't ...
It really doesn't....
show reasoning behind random statement.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:02:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah
It doesn't ...
It really doesn't....
show reasoning behind random statement.



I don't disagree, but I've been informed that this is the explanation within CCP for the removal of hangar view.

Gedid Tava
Gallente
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:03:00 - [49]
 

Why is the "turn off CQ" option only temporary? Because they want it that way.

I don't see how it isn't clear that CCP is vying for an avatar based mindspace. Incarna and Dust are just two small pieces of what they're doing with Carbon.

They don't want people just being ships anymore. The goal is to remove that as something to think about so they're forcing the user to focus on a non-ship avatar.

Who knows, in 200 years maybe we'll all just sleeve into our EVE toons when we're playing and they're setting the stage early. Regardless, the answer to "why" is "because it's their baby" and nothing more.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:05:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Originally by: Soden Rah
It doesn't ...
It really doesn't....
show reasoning behind random statement.



I don't disagree, but I've been informed that this is the explanation within CCP for the removal of hangar view.


By whom? It don't recall ever seeing that in any dev blog, press statement, or Fanfest video.

I can't see any logic to it, if its just been randomly made up by someone it should be killed off, if it IS internal CCP thought... Then they need to be taken out, given a good whacking, and have the error of their ways explained to them.

If people are compelled to use Incarna... they WILL hate it.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:06:00 - [51]
 

  • Do I think Incarna is a great addition. Yes.
  • Do I want to see it everytime I dock. No.
  • Is it unreasonable to ask for an option to either have CQ, or the present Hanger view load. No it isn't.
It really is that simple.

Legio Praetor
The Green Machine
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:11:00 - [52]
 

+1

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:14:00 - [53]
 

Does anyone still work at CCP that might answer the numerous questions you haven't addressed in regards to these issues? Or can we take your silence as "Ambassador Recalled"?

Versuvius Marii
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:41:00 - [54]
 

It should be possible to choose between the two upon docking; I would much rather ship spin when camped, and only go to CQ when I have to go for a bit of AFK.

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:44:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99

I'm making this thread in an attempt to get a straight answer from one of CCPs Developers.



Linkage

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:02:00 - [56]
 

agree 100% with OP. and to OP, very well put.

Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:17:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Maul555 on 16/06/2011 01:24:58
Originally by: WiseMan Ari
my biggest issue with this, is that we're loosing alot of functionality with the old hangars. I've always double clicked on the ship floating in station to open my cargo bay, and right clicked to open any of the other bays, like drone and fuel. Now i'll have to have the ships in station view open constantly to do that, and as i've always had "merge items and ships into station panel" ticked on, i'll now have to drop that option, and instead constantly have my ship and items hangars up for the same functionality.
So basicly CCP is by forcing me to watch their pretty avatars, making it so i don't actually see anything in the station as my screen will be pretty much filled with open hangars


I do the exact same thing and I cant believe that I hadnt thought about how much CQ will screw with my docking routine. right click ship for drone bay... double click for cargo... yep. This is all basic stuff thats been around forever.

Another good point is that forcing people to go to CQ will engender hate. All they need to do is to add a exit to station button in the hangar. This would be soooooo simple its beyond ******ed if they don't do it. This has been the single biggest issue as I see it with CQ and incarna. We just want the option.

And I say all of this while eagerly awaiting CQ... I love the thought of stepping out of the Pod, just not on every damn dock!

VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:19:00 - [58]
 

I don't want anything to do with "captain's quarters" ambulation etc. let me disable it.

Ti Chi
Minmatar
Duct Tape Mechanics
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:36:00 - [59]
 

It seems to me most people are basing load time on Duality, which CCP have stated is not optimised. On SiSi it looks like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hia4APr-T6w

as you can see the UI is up almost instantly, and not any longer than normal, and the CQ loads almost straight afterwards.

I suggest go and try out on SiSi if your concerned.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.16 02:35:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Ti Chi
It seems to me most people are basing load time on Duality, which CCP have stated is not optimised. On SiSi it looks like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hia4APr-T6w

as you can see the UI is up almost instantly, and not any longer than normal, and the CQ loads almost straight afterwards.

I suggest go and try out on SiSi if your concerned.

Most of this isn't about load times. It's about immersion and usability.
Learn to read, moron.


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