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Mauya
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:21:00 - [1171]
 

I think this is a very bad idea CCP. I think many of the developers develop 3rd applications for fun. I doubt they will continue to develop 3rd programs for the eve universe in the future Shocked

Noa Fuyu
Amarr
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:25:00 - [1172]
 

Originally by: tex sharky
Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Zero Bit
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you ASSHATS






Timi Falense
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:25:00 - [1173]
 

Edited by: Timi Falense on 17/06/2011 11:28:14
Edited by: Timi Falense on 17/06/2011 11:26:16
This is a terrible idea, it will make ppl leave the game, it will stop players from developing apps and it will make ppl angry if it goes through.
Here I was actually starting to enjoy Eve again and then this?!, shame on you ccp!Evil or Very Mad

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:35:00 - [1174]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 17/06/2011 11:51:23
Another 24 hours and still no 'discussion' going on with CCP Atlas and the 3rd party developer community. Just us 3rd party developers and a whole bunch of our p*ssed off fans telling CCP how ignorant this is.

No worries - it's looking like this coming weekend is sure to keep CCP's forums alight with p*ssed off customers when us 3rd party dev's take down our sites and apps in protest of the lack of forethought and *TOTAL LACK OF COMMUNICATION* from CCP on this. You want to charge us to increase the value of your intellectual property? Fine. We'll show you what Eve would be like without us... and what thousands of p*ssed off clients feels like. Enjoy, CCP.

To our fans and visitors - we apologize that such a drastic measure has to be taken in order to get CCP to have the discussion they have thus far failed to have about this 'new service' they are offering - but it seems the only way CCP listens to the community anymore is when we generate a big enough public spectacle of them.

I want my old CCP back. I want to hang with the game devs in-game again. I want to feel like all my time and effort supporting Eve online FOR FREE and caring about the players is worth something more than a $99 license fee.

I have no desire to even log into Eve at the moment. My five accounts have sat idle since this whole debacle began and I'm seriously considering just calling it quits. Which is unfortunate because I love EVE - I f*cking HATE CCP tho. Bad dog!

Edit: If you follow my posts in here CCP you'll see that I started off trying to defend you... but as time has gone on and you have become silent yet again about another topic the community feels strongly about in hopes that if you ignore the problem it will just go away - kinda like you did with the bots until I had to write a GD bot report tool that kept your GMs so busy that CCP finally decided the right-click -> report bot tool we've been asking for since '06 was a good idea. Ofc, that was also a big pile of smoke up our ass since there still is no right-click -> report bot tool in Eve. In any event, I've asked for a discussion in response to your request for a discussion. I'm willing to work *with* you to find a solution that works for everyone. All of us 3rd party devs are. But you're p*ssing me off more and more by ignoring your own request for discussion and subsequent requests from 3rd party developers (like Chribba) to have this discussion.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:38:00 - [1175]
 

Originally by: Mauya
I think this is a very bad idea CCP. I think many of the developers develop 3rd applications for fun. I doubt they will continue to develop 3rd programs for the eve universe in the future Shocked

And this is of course the great concern. You think the devs of EVEMON, for example, pressed to free time to develop their stuff as it is, will continue to work on their app when CCP has the gall to charge them for their volunteer work?!

Charging money to play dress-up is one thing; charging people who actually promote and help make your game better, for free, that's just plain insanity.

backtrace
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:48:00 - [1176]
 

Originally by: lady2isis
Originally by: tex sharky
Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats






Tuitan Boger
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:53:00 - [1177]
 

I first started playing eve 3 years ago, I quit 2 weeks later because I couldn't figure out why my Merlin kept blowing up in missions. I then started playing again about a year or so ago, after a friend showed me EVE HQ. I slowly started figuring out how to fit my ships with the proper resistances for the mission at hand (there is no faq about what damages guristas, drones, blood raiders, serpentis, sansha, and angels do). Then I found a corp to join the pointed me to EVE Mon, which helped me to find what skills I needed to train. I also spent 2 weeks of training time to train learning skills (glad they are gone). But I had no clue what they were when I first started playing and EVE Mon helped with that.

Started to pvp, ended up browsing battleclinic, eve-kill looking at peoples fits getting ideas of my own and putting them in to eve hq, testing them on the server and figuring out what worked and what didn't.

Now you want to charge $99 a year for these 3rd party programs simply because they take donations? These programs are the only reason I am playing eve again.

Without these programs you, CCP would not be getting $560 a year for my 3 accounts.


But what ever who am I kidding CCP is just going to look at this thread and be like "Suckers" and still do it anyway. In which case I hope the 3rd party developers simply shut down their sites and let CCP sweat it out. Maybe then they will realize how important these sites are to the eve "community" Which they seem to care less about with each patch (Who the **** cares about walking in stations?) I play this game for spaceships not to look at my ugly ass character.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:56:00 - [1178]
 

You realise you're dependent on these 3rd party developers for a sizeable portion of your playerbase, right? I wouldn't touch Eve with a 10 ft bargepole if I didn't have Evemon and EFT available to compensate for the poor state of their in-game UI equivalents.

OldWolf69
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:14:00 - [1179]
 

Guys. Don't get too angry. They don't care about that. Or just have a good laugh at that. It's fair game, because it's their game.
Altrough stated as discussion, there will be none. Will be just our angry as customers. Even if CCP Atlas, or whoever, will respond, they did start this thread for the appareance of a discussion. And do what they want. Because they want. The money. Just the money. Only the money. Forever and ever. The money.
Without the 3thrd party's, some of the ppl will go away. And the rest will do failfits and other sh0tz like that, and some wil buy plex to renew what they lost. And that's the intention. They will say that the 99$ are nothing, and the 3thrd partys using CCP's intelectual property, and that's right. But fair were to charge the ones that ask money for their apps. But...but...wait...there's no good app that ask to be payed? But...but...how to get the 13,27plexes they could win by that?
CCP, why not double the game fee? Then you don't need to make people angry, and have a bad name. Well, there will be a greedy name, and most posible a penible fail and this game's end. But how about take some risks, like you say ppl should take in game? But, no, i'm afraid you will chose the 99$ fee. Ninja salvaging has his fans, and seems on higher lvl's too. Because better a shure small loot then a risky tripple win. That's was ninjas evolve to just griefers, but pirates become sometimes brilliant PvP-ers.
Why TH every good bussines ends up being ruled by small and insignificant economists? "My name is Legion. Because we are many"...?

Cross Barret
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:15:00 - [1180]
 

There is really nothing I can say that hasn't been said, I just wanted to add my support and voice my concern for tools like dotlan, eve-central, eft, evemon, evehq, evenews24, etc that will be negatively affected by such a change. A licensing fee for programs or services that charge the user RL money for their use (e.g., as capsuleer wanted to) makes perfect sense and it may even spur professional programmers to make some cool new apps. HOWEVER, please leave free programs or services alone. This includes programs or services that use ads or donations to offset their costs. Give them a free license if you insist on making them have a license.

Joey Moonbeam
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:18:00 - [1181]
 

Why are you ruining one of the things that made this game great?

Da Death
Minmatar
Relentless Enterprises
Ore Federation
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:59:00 - [1182]
 

Oook this is now the last post. I think CCP got it.


THANKS EVERYONE FOR THEIR IN and OUTPUTS!! Rolling EyesTwisted Evil

Vigoth Ritic
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:21:00 - [1183]
 

WTS TIME MACHINE

Think about it CCP it has your buggy database and it has YOUR ideas loaded in the AI. Enjoy the LAGGY RIDE

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:30:00 - [1184]
 

FWIW, CCP... I've decided I *do* want to login after all. So I can sit in Jita and inform as many players as possible about your ebil plans. Muahahahaha

MsTiCkEl
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:34:00 - [1185]
 

I think we should all calm down. This has to be some kind of joke. Surely they aren't being serious. With all the other ways they are breaking it off in their own clients (players), this one has to be a joke...

dEEpdenim
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:38:00 - [1186]
 

It is easy to throw arrows left and right while your own money not involved.
Do you want make 3rd parties developers happy in very old fashion way? Are YOU personally prepared and willing to do so?
If so, it is great!

There is the way I will do it, if I be in charge (and ofc I am not).

CCP opens "special" API only for applications allowed to use it (read: got license agreement).
To make information available for your char thru this API you need to pay, lets say $1 per char/account - whatever.
And CCP will pay commission like 60% to App developer.

Let's say, there will be 2 versions of EFT available. The one we have now and the second one uses "closed" API.
May be something like "pro" version, you name it.

So, purchasing such API Key, you will not making damn donation but instead you pay for application the guy very well deserved to be paid for. Will it make you feel better?

Would I pay for such stuff few bucks? If it is hassle free, for example via PayPal, I almost certain I will.

API is very powerful weapon. And if it used properly it may create whole new breed of applications and extend EvE boundaries. And make this great game even more enjoyable.

The blind and brutal approach as proposed licensing model brings only kinda of storm we have right here right now.

Lets hope CCP will come up with something more suitable for developers, end users and ofc CCP.

cheers








Mark Hamill
Amarr
Galactic Waste Management
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:48:00 - [1187]
 

As the developer of EVETycoon, here's my two cents for what it's worth.

I would LOVE to be able to monetize the software I've written. I'd love to get rich off it. Coming up with a scheme where I could just sit and work on software from home all day would be a dream come true. Unfortunately, there's a little voice inside my head (among many others) that says it won't happen.

The EVE community has come to expect certain things, one of those things is a vibrant community of 3rd party developers who do it as a labor of love and provide their apps for free/donations. I wrote ET for me, no one else. It just so happens that others found it useful and I continued to expand it to support their desires. To give you an idea of what they expect, when I first released it as EVEReprocessor some 5 years ago, I had to fend off a FLOOD of calls to make it open source. This is what your community expects.

I do accept donations to help offset my hosting costs and to pay for those shiny toys in my hangar. In 5 years of working on ET I haven't even received a billion isk in donations. ET loses money. If I did try to monetize EVETycoon people would just stop using it. EVETycoon primarily appeals to those traders who do reprocessing to make isk. There are more than I ever suspected but not THAT many. Most of them came to ET after writing their own spreadsheets. If I was forced to purchase a license I'd also be forced to charge real money for ET. I'm not a rich man. I couldn't begin to justify $100 a year and then provide ET for free. If I did charge my users, they'd go back to their spreadsheets faster than they could click the uninstall button.

I'm not at all opposed to your license scheme in principle. I do believe that if you did provide an inexpensive way for small 3rd party developers like me to step beyond donations and into monetization you'd have an even bigger community of developers with even bigger and better apps. If you gave me that OPTION, I might even sit down and rewrite ET into that monster do-all, be-all app. The way you have it structured now, I'd be forced to pull the public plug on ET. Furthermore, why the hell would I pay you $100 a year when, the way you have it written, you don't guarantee me or my users jack **** in return?





Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:50:00 - [1188]
 

Originally by: Da Death
Oook this is now the last post. I think CCP got it.


THANKS EVERYONE FOR THEIR IN and OUTPUTS!! Rolling EyesTwisted Evil


Actually, they didn't get the message. The message is we want to have a discussion about this. They're message is 'ok, ok, we'll work on this and get back to you at the end of the summer' which is unacceptable because they're hoping that we'll just forget about it by then and they'll slide it in under the radar with no opposition until it's too late.

Keep this topic going until that have the discussion they said they wanted to have on this.


Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:55:00 - [1189]
 

CCP Zulu, CCP Atlas, CCP ANYONE

This isnt going away.

Are you too "kind of swamped" to deal with the ****storm youve stirred up? The longer your too swamped to attempt any kind of damage control, the worse this is going to get. Some people in this thread havent fully grasped the mechanics your meddling with and are seeing a worst case scenario where any app requires a licences, donation or not. Increased anger all round.

YOU NEED TO MAKE A BIG, CLEAR ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE FORUMS about what your going to do. Falling silent is making it worse. If your too swamped to realize people are actually unsubbing (yes, people are posting screenies of their unsubbing, its happening) Then your game is going to go down the tubes. Seriously. This thread contains just about every possible solution from angelic to diabolical. Pick the one you want (hint, its the one that at least 90% of people posting want) Then dump it on Bizdev with a "earn your money you MBA sony*****alikes and make this happen" tag then post it up. Then go back to your barbies in space.

DEAL WITH IT FFS. YOU created this pus filled infection, if you dont deal with it there will be amputations ahead.

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:04:00 - [1190]
 

Originally by: Mark Hamill
As the developer of EVETycoon, here's my two cents for what it's worth.

I would LOVE to be able to monetize the software I've written. I'd love to get rich off it. Coming up with a scheme where I could just sit and work on software from home all day would be a dream come true. Unfortunately, there's a little voice inside my head (among many others) that says it won't happen.

The EVE community has come to expect certain things, one of those things is a vibrant community of 3rd party developers who do it as a labor of love and provide their apps for free/donations. I wrote ET for me, no one else. It just so happens that others found it useful and I continued to expand it to support their desires. To give you an idea of what they expect, when I first released it as EVEReprocessor some 5 years ago, I had to fend off a FLOOD of calls to make it open source. This is what your community expects.

I do accept donations to help offset my hosting costs and to pay for those shiny toys in my hangar. In 5 years of working on ET I haven't even received a billion isk in donations. ET loses money. If I did try to monetize EVETycoon people would just stop using it. EVETycoon primarily appeals to those traders who do reprocessing to make isk. There are more than I ever suspected but not THAT many. Most of them came to ET after writing their own spreadsheets. If I was forced to purchase a license I'd also be forced to charge real money for ET. I'm not a rich man. I couldn't begin to justify $100 a year and then provide ET for free. If I did charge my users, they'd go back to their spreadsheets faster than they could click the uninstall button.

I'm not at all opposed to your license scheme in principle. I do believe that if you did provide an inexpensive way for small 3rd party developers like me to step beyond donations and into monetization you'd have an even bigger community of developers with even bigger and better apps. If you gave me that OPTION, I might even sit down and rewrite ET into that monster do-all, be-all app. The way you have it structured now, I'd be forced to pull the public plug on ET. Furthermore, why the hell would I pay you $100 a year when, the way you have it written, you don't guarantee me or my users jack **** in return?

CCP, you have said you are reviewing your 'draft', and if you really are going back to the drawing board read what this player has said before you **** up again.

Ix Forres
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:07:00 - [1191]
 

Originally by: tex sharky
make subsciption free for people who run top eve 3rd party services. At least 3 accounts free per person just like ccp employees as a modest thank you for all the work they have done


Fansite operators already (sometimes) get one free account per fansite. If they ask, and are judged worthy of such an account by whoever makes those decisions, etc. Which is pretty nice of CCP, honestly. It wasn't always this way: only from late 2009 onwards I think.

The trouble with this whole thing here is faith. CCP was a company that I used to believe were a really great company, a different company that wasn't just another crappy MMO company. EVE is a special thing, something that deserves reverence and respect. But CCP have fallen far from where they once were. At one time I was considering applying to work at CCP and leaving family and friends behind to work with EVE. Now, I wouldn't even begin to consider that. Not in a million years.

I sunk nearly four years of my life into developing apps for EVE. I started off while I was only a student; $99 would have stopped me from even considering making anything for EVE. But even if they made the license $10, or even free, the attitude CCP has taken to dealing with the community lately would have put me off ever considering making apps for EVE long ago.

Sorry CCP, but the damage is done. I'm not the only third party dev who feels like this. All you can hope to do now is damage control. Rebuilding faith is not easily accomplished.

NenYim
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:20:00 - [1192]
 

i will HAPPY QUIT eve and cancle my 2 accounts if this goes through.... thats more than your $99 a year fee u will lose.... and im sure there will be ALTO of other ppl following me on this...
CCP U FAIL!

Gaztanshana
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:25:00 - [1193]
 

Originally by: NenYim
i will HAPPY QUIT eve and cancle my 2 accounts if this goes through.... thats more than your $99 a year fee u will lose.... and im sure there will be ALTO of other ppl following me on this...
CCP U FAIL!


Yep, same here with 2 accounts.

Nabuch Sattva
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:26:00 - [1194]
 

Originally by: lady2isis
Originally by: tex sharky
Originally by: John'eh
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats






Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:35:00 - [1195]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.




Too swamped to address perhaps the greatest betrayal you've visited upon your most fervent supporters since EVE began eh?

C.

KilABitcH
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:58:00 - [1196]
 

Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Greed is the biggest destroyer of man!

Tarithell
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:05:00 - [1197]
 

This is pretty much a punch under the belt for newbes...

Kina Ayami
Affari Sporchi
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:07:00 - [1198]
 

Edited by: Kina Ayami on 17/06/2011 15:12:58
Originally by: KilA*****
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Greed is the biggest destroyer of man!


qft :-/

edit: because of a busy and happy rl i'm quite an inactive player. Still, i pay for two accounts, to play for those few hours/month, and because i like the eve community; i like to read about the fights i cant join anymore and about drama. This is what mainly keep me interested in the game ( to be clear , i dont give a **** about incarna o dust or whatever...). Imho, whatever is going against your community and the people keeping it active, is going against you in the long term. Think it over, please.

roq deelim
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:16:00 - [1199]
 

Originally by: KilA*****
Originally by: Zero Bit

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Greed is the biggest destroyer of man!


THIS.

ccp is developing from a game-dev who is loved by its players to the absolute hate-object - and its entirely their own fault. amazing how quick you can shoot yourself in the foot...

Kjar Achran
Minmatar
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:18:00 - [1200]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




just in case the point was missed


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