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Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:34:00 - [1051]
 

more *sigh*

See Zulu... 3 more pages in a couple of hours. This isn't just going to go away you know that right? This has become the new RMT devblog from hell, only it didn't specifically talk about RMT I know that's ultimately what you're after with this... so why not just come out and say it?


Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:36:00 - [1052]
 

Quote:
That is not the actual focus of that, think more of the lines of preserving copyrights, making sure that people do not run off with what CCP has made for things not related to EVE, and such


Excuse me, how is this different than the already in place checks that CCP demands to do on websites?



Quote:

Good point on control. If control means botting sites go down I want more of it



Excuse me, why can't I just send CCP a copy of my driving license and a bill, like every other company including banks accept to do?

I am quite sure that if a bank is fine, then a gaming company should not be stricter.


darmwand
Blood Money Dark Angels
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:38:00 - [1053]
 

I think something vaguely similar has been said before, but just in case:

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




JamesCLK
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:44:00 - [1054]
 

Phew, talk about a rude wake up call! Neutral

As has been stated countless times already (abeit in a more blunt way), you really scared some people with that blog and the storm of complaints that it brought could very likely have been at least partially avoided if it had been made much more clear that it was still up for debate. Confused

Regardless, I digress. So I'm just going to drop my feedback right here; Idea

Since CCP isn't "supposedly" in this for the money (the revenue is quite minor compared to the subscriptions), I was going to suggest that you tie this in with the already established PLEX programe. Since a PLEX is worth 15$, being able to pay for the commercial liscence with a PLEX would likely solve a lot of problems. This means that apps or services that charge ISK (as an ingame currency for payment), or who gain substancial donations would be able to pay for said liscence with a handfull of PLEX (much like how we can buy Fanfest tickets with them, much appreciated CCP). In a way, this is equivalent to having the users pay real $ since someone, somewhere, sometime bought that PLEX for said money (and indeed, that is the beauty of the PLEX market). Smile

Now of course this means that these 3rd party developpers would need to pull together a couple of billion isk worth of PLEX to pay the annual fee, but it shouldn't be too big a task (it just plain adds to the options for the developer since you're more likely to be donated or paid ingame isk than RL$$$).

This does however present some interesting issues with regards to the market price of PLEX (more demand with a somewhat constant supply is a large player in inflating PLEX prices if there isn't a PLEX reliant expansion on the horizon - Incarna, hint hint) rising, something I'm sure the CCP marketing department would be delighted to conduct research uppon. Razz

Just my 0.02 ISK.

Cheers, and let's hope this doesn't blow up in anyones face more than it already has. ugh

PS: Many people have said this, and I will too: Don't forget to bring it up with the CSM and possibly Chribba (the guy did offer to fly to Iceland to take it up with you). Shocked

Erik Finnegan
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:46:00 - [1055]
 

99$ per year is a symbolic fee IMHO for monetizing on the EVE IP.

Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:48:00 - [1056]
 

Originally by: Nardman
The way it was worded, it most likely was a committed feature until they saw they were about to **** off the vast majority of their customers and ALL of the people that are developing these 3rd party aps. As soon as they saw the feedback, it was damage control time: "Uhh, just kidding, this was a first draft of a terrible idea! haha.. ha ... ahhhh".

I actually did think this until I posted that comment; I went back and did note "We got a lot of good feedback at Fanfest and would like to get more before finalizing the service." so they were still seeking feedback. Though from the wording of the dev blog at a whole, they thought it would go over pretty well.

Makes me wonder how many people at CCP actually looked at it, or if it was just the higher ups - if they had asked any of the lower devs who started at CCP after being 3p devs, it would have been reeled in before hitting the blog and the outside community.

Zedrik Cayne
Gallente
Standards and Practices
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:51:00 - [1057]
 

I'm angry. Been seething since I caught wind of this, and have finally calmed down enough to post.

Your game, such as it is, is made up of some fairly mediocre content, and the sandbox.

The sandbox is where all the good stories, the good *content* is created. We the players fill in a huge amount of content for you. We do it because we can. Because it creates good stories and we can say 'I did this cool thing...here...take a look at the video. Here, check out the kills. Yes, it is all real, verified by the servers.'

You tout that EvE is real. And in a very deep sense it is. There are uncountable hours of effort people put in, just in game, to make it real. To make it Epic.

And out of game, even more countless hours are put together to smooth over the missing pieces of stuff that should be there already. Killboards, industry calculators, jump calculators, documentation, search functions, wikis. For the most part not for profit, sinking tens to hundred of dollars for server and bandwidth costs. Trying to claw some of that back with ads and timecode sales to not create a huge cash sink.

This proposed 'license' fee, is a direct slap in the face. Did anyone even consider the implications before floating this in front of our faces? Every Blog with google ads. EvE Kill...EvE Files...EvE Search. Even my own http://eve-locator.justaddhippopotamus.com will fall under this fee.

You've probably got the most tech savvy, entrenched player base going of any MMO. We create the stories that make your game Epic. We are starting to tire of your recent missteps. (NewForums (tm) BrokePatches (tm) BadlyThoughtOutAnnouncements (tm) AurumShips (tm))

We as a player base have to trust that you as a company, are doing a few things:

1) Keep the game fair.
2) Don't break the game.
3) Don't be stupid (tm)

You've been doing okay on #1...wait...no..aurum insta-ships for cash.
You've been doing okay on #2...wait...no..Broken-ass patches/updates/forums
You've been doing okay on #3...wait...no..Dumb licencing ideas.

Your player base thirsts for you to keep those three things right square in front of your face.

We make our own fun in your playground. We even try helping others to have fun in your playground.

You add Planetary Interaction. Practically without real documentation on how it works. The players pour over your available information and create nice tools and wikis and put it out there for you.

You add sleepers and T3 production. No documentation. The players again pour over it and create tools and wikis and documentation.

Forums don't have a search feature? The players created one for you. Your interface for finding your stuff in game is poor? Several have been created for you.

Want to fly a spiffy new ship? Don't know what to train to get there? Prying all the information you want out of the game is painful. There's a tool for that.

You want to do something weird with fittings? But don't know if it will fit before you buy it because you might need an implant or something to make it fit? There's a tool for that.

Need to find a particular agent for a particular purpose? (Research for example?) You can't find that info in the game...There's a tool for that.

All of these things are not in your game. All of these things were created by your players, for the other players. They are what make the game playable, and reduce the brick-wall of learning curve significantly. Your players help you retain new players by providing content that your game does not.

We like it that the game does not drag you through the content, that only self-motivated people can search and find and profit and get ahead.

I just spent time in Arnon, answering questions of new folks. Most of them when they complete their epic arc are kind of left flat..no direction. Your players provide that direction. The 'next thing' to do.

Don't screw that up. It is your move.

Mane Frehm
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:53:00 - [1058]
 

What an amazing threadnought...verges on being a threadtitan. Classic example of a problem being created by poor communication and mixing together multiple issues. Allow me to simplify:

1. Intellectual Property (IP) - absolutely vital for CCP to maintain control over this (and players need to respect this). Although we'd really rather not have the lawyers around, they do have their place, and providing advice to about how to safeguard IP is important. But lawyers will always give zero risk advice; CCP needs to take a broader perspective when considering the value of their IP, as it has clearly been enhanced by the community.

2. Licensing - so many flavours, so little time. I defer to experts on which model(s) are appropriate, but clearly CCP needs a model that allows for monetarization but more importantly supports the community.

3. Costs of licenses/RMT. Folks are being delusional if they think the $99 was chosen to make money; somebody suggested the number and that was that. There's no way this is an approach that CCP is taking to make money - too much effort for too little return (even an MBA could figure that one out). And RMT??? Doesn't fit here at all.

4. Communications/PR. How to best describe it? Abject failure - unless the goal was to provoke mass rage, in which case it was definitely a success. This is an active and very vocal community, which is a huge asset for CCP. But when the communication to the community is unclear or rage inducing....

Simple comms rules - when its a proposal, say so. When its a draft, say so. When you are looking for input, say so (and when you're not, say so as well). And never present something as "complete" when it isn't. And for pitys sake, check with your users before dropping something on them unless you are 100% sure it will not be controversial in any way. BTW, no one can ever be 100% sure....

Daniel Darkcross
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:59:00 - [1059]
 

Edited by: Daniel Darkcross on 16/06/2011 21:00:32
It Has been said but I will say it again for every drop counts when you try to overflow a dam.

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Joanaz
Minmatar
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:10:00 - [1060]
 

Edited by: Joanaz on 16/06/2011 21:12:14
Originally by: Zedrik Cayne
I'm angry. Been seething since I caught wind of this, and have finally calmed down enough to post.

Your game, such as it is, is made up of some fairly mediocre content, and the sandbox.

The sandbox is where all the good stories, the good *content* is created. We the players fill in a huge amount of content for you. We do it because we can. Because it creates good stories and we can say 'I did this cool thing...here...take a look at the video. Here, check out the kills. Yes, it is all real, verified by the servers.'

You tout that EvE is real. And in a very deep sense it is. There are uncountable hours of effort people put in, just in game, to make it real. To make it Epic.

And out of game, even more countless hours are put together to smooth over the missing pieces of stuff that should be there already. Killboards, industry calculators, jump calculators, documentation, search functions, wikis. For the most part not for profit, sinking tens to hundred of dollars for server and bandwidth costs. Trying to claw some of that back with ads and timecode sales to not create a huge cash sink.

This proposed 'license' fee, is a direct slap in the face. Did anyone even consider the implications before floating this in front of our faces? Every Blog with google ads. EvE Kill...EvE Files...EvE Search. Even my own http://eve-locator.justaddhippopotamus.com will fall under this fee.

You've probably got the most tech savvy, entrenched player base going of any MMO. We create the stories that make your game Epic. We are starting to tire of your recent missteps. (NewForums (tm) BrokePatches (tm) BadlyThoughtOutAnnouncements (tm) AurumShips (tm))

We as a player base have to trust that you as a company, are doing a few things:

1) Keep the game fair.
2) Don't break the game.
3) Don't be stupid (tm)

You've been doing okay on #1...wait...no..aurum insta-ships for cash.
You've been doing okay on #2...wait...no..Broken-ass patches/updates/forums
You've been doing okay on #3...wait...no..Dumb licencing ideas.

Your player base thirsts for you to keep those three things right square in front of your face.

We make our own fun in your playground. We even try helping others to have fun in your playground.

You add Planetary Interaction. Practically without real documentation on how it works. The players pour over your available information and create nice tools and wikis and put it out there for you.

You add sleepers and T3 production. No documentation. The players again pour over it and create tools and wikis and documentation.

Forums don't have a search feature? The players created one for you. Your interface for finding your stuff in game is poor? Several have been created for you.

Want to fly a spiffy new ship? Don't know what to train to get there? Prying all the information you want out of the game is painful. There's a tool for that.

You want to do something weird with fittings? But don't know if it will fit before you buy it because you might need an implant or something to make it fit? There's a tool for that.

Need to find a particular agent for a particular purpose? (Research for example?) You can't find that info in the game...There's a tool for that.

All of these things are not in your game. All of these things were created by your players, for the other players. They are what make the game playable, and reduce the brick-wall of learning curve significantly. Your players help you retain new players by providing content that your game does not.

We like it that the game does not drag you through the content, that only self-motivated people can search and find and profit and get ahead.

I just spent time in Arnon, answering questions of new folks. Most of them when they complete their epic arc are kind of left flat..no direction. Your players provide that direction. The 'next thing' to do.

Don't screw that up. It is your move.

Twisted Evil

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:12:00 - [1061]
 

Originally by: Chribba
ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words.

I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the ****ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services.

As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ****ing ******ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash.

This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news".

Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation...

And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer...

I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far.

/c


Well that about sums it up. This is terrible.

If you are making RL cash fine.

ISK and donations should not be a part of this in any way shape or form.

Dumb Dumb Dumb.

Rage and I'n not even writing anything.

Trell Kazak
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:14:00 - [1062]
 

This is a terrible idea - did you guys learn nothing from WoTC and D&D 4e ? :)

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:16:00 - [1063]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say I‘m impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.

There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.

It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).

It‘s obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.

Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.

So what we‘ll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.

As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


What is confused? You are killing 3ed party aps, web sites anything. Many sites work on donations…heck even guild pages often take donations..Every guild site going to fall under this….good luck.

You better take a step back……and actually rub 2 brain cells together before re posting.
This is grade “A” stupid.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:17:00 - [1064]
 

Originally by: CCP Atlas
I'm sure we will have plenty to talk about in the discussion thread. :-)


So far, it seems like the players and the 3rd party developers have been doing all the discussing. Where's CCP in this discussion? If you wanted to have a discussion and get our feedback, then where the hell are you Atlas? Where's the discussion? All I see are a whole lot of posts from players and developers and a couple of vague responses from CCP Zulu and CCP Spitfire (depending on which of the two forums you're posting on, ofc - gah). Don't tell us you want to have a discussion about this and then never, ever, ever discuss it. WTF?

Let's discuss it then. We don't like some parts of it. Where is your feedback on our feedback besides a 'we'll get back to you at the end of the summer'?

Dewgong
Amarr
Tribuo Quod Victum
Independent Faction
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:24:00 - [1065]
 

What the **** are you guys doing, CCP?

If you combined Richard Nixon, both Bushes, and Stalin, they still wouldn't be as bad as this.

You guys should sack whoever would think of the idea.

somafiend
Caldari
Dark Sun Legion
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:24:00 - [1066]
 

Suggestion for CCP:

How about an immunity list of applications of API use, watched over and tested by the CSM?
Sites like killboards, EFT, EveMon, Battleclinic, evemaps.dotlan.net, Aura, and iClone are what I would think to be good examples of API usage that would be unanimous decisions for such a list. Things like PL's Sphere and other private applications would either have to be submitted to the CSM for review, or just pay the fee. If Capsuleer wanted to comeback and charge people, again, API fees sound acceptable. Blogging? Seriously, who makes a profit blogging...no fee.

Be rational about this CCP, and if you want to play the We're too busy to deal with this now card, you should have thought of it before opening your bowels on your paying customers.

Josef Huffenpuff
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:30:00 - [1067]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

Good Stuff

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


Its not that we disagree with all that stuff about IP ownership, better contracts between us and CCP, support for our apps etc etc. Thats great, and feedback at Fanfest already told you that.

Its the MONEY thats the issue. 95% of everything out there is built for love and takes hundreds of hours. The ISK we get for it is peanuts. Even paid apps often don't even cover the hosting costs. You can count the number of successful profitable commercial apps on the fingers of your hands. Being asked to now pay $99 bucks is frankly insulting.

Radruler
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:31:00 - [1068]
 

Something you once promised to never approach suddenly destroys your public image for those with open eyes...console games can get away with bs like this because of the hurrdurr mentality of the population, but EVE requires skill and attentiveness in even the most basic functions, and this very aware userbase is not easily fooled. Better luck next time, or lose your 3rd party population which keeps this game alive - your choice, CCP.

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Paukinra
Gallente
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:33:00 - [1069]
 

I'm sure you meant to post this on the 1st of April, your a bit late......

Zero Bit
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:33:00 - [1070]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Enthral
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:33:00 - [1071]
 

Considering the number of replies--36 pages worth--you would think we have 3rd party apps coming out our ears. Anyone who actually develops 3rd party apps that will be affected have any comment?

XrayZII
AVE EVE
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:35:00 - [1072]
 

Edited by: XrayZII on 16/06/2011 21:35:42
Originally by: Zedrik Cayne

post #1059



prolly the best detailed description of what CCP is about to **** up, tbh.

if they go though with this, new players will be hit by a brick wall.
CCP will lose significant amount of old players, and will not gain new ones. They will kill the game.

Seeing CCP does not have the necessary tools to make eve played efficently, i see this as a very bad idea.

All my support to the existing App developers, u guys are doing an awesome job, keep up the good work.

And CCP... fire the person that came up with this idea, or he will get u all fired.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:35:00 - [1073]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say I‘m impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.

There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.

It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).

It‘s obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.

Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.

So what we‘ll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.

As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online
I'm glad to hear this, and hopefully you also do realize the potential you have to communicate with those it does affect directly, to create a smooth way forward.

As a 3rd party developer I do understand your concerns regarding IP, but the last thing I wish is to get thrown at the bottom of a legal pile of potential lawsuits, after all we create things because we appreciat what you have done for us.

Looking forward to giving my input on the matter should you want it to find a suitable way for all developers and yourself, and keep providing the community with services and applications.

/c

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:40:00 - [1074]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 16/06/2011 21:41:05
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say I‘m impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.

There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.

It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).

It‘s obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.

Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.

So what we‘ll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.

As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online
I'm glad to hear this, and hopefully you also do realize the potential you have to communicate with those it does affect directly, to create a smooth way forward.

As a 3rd party developer I do understand your concerns regarding IP, but the last thing I wish is to get thrown at the bottom of a legal pile of potential lawsuits, after all we create things because we appreciat what you have done for us.

Looking forward to giving my input on the matter should you want it to find a suitable way for all developers and yourself, and keep providing the community with services and applications.

/c


THIS

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:56:00 - [1075]
 

Ive played this game since 04, and you can backpeddal all you want, but im still gonna say one thing to you before i let my accounts run out.

**** YOU CCP for your constant stream of bad moves the last few years.

karrak
Muchacho's
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:57:00 - [1076]
 

Having played on and of since release on diff chars and accounts, of all the dumb things you have pulled of during the years this one is way up there.
All one can do is shake ones head at your logicugh

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:15:00 - [1077]
 

Originally by: Enthral
Considering the number of replies--36 pages worth--you would think we have 3rd party apps coming out our ears. Anyone who actually develops 3rd party apps that will be affected have any comment?


Services were included so Killboards & Graphics too. I somehow doubt everyone who makes Sigs for ISK will want to pay $99 to do so.

CCP, I think you need to step back and remember why your playerbase is so loyal to EVE. It's because of you, CCP, and how good you've been to us in the past, so please don't ruin your image on something so stupid as it'l do you far more harm than good.

ISK is NOT a real-world currency.

Aganola
Amarr
Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:21:00 - [1078]
 

Originally by: Erik Finnegan
99$ per year is a symbolic fee IMHO for monetizing on the EVE IP.
No, it's not.
For once: 100$ is a substantial amount of my monthly pay, therefore screw you CCP... I already pay for 3 accounts, I'm not gonna pay for developing my hobby too!
Second: it is the whole issue that pushed most of us over the edge.
Third: this amount of money (99$) will never ever be recovered by 3rd party apps in it's current form!

This reeks of some 'Financial from Apple' Guy (F.A.G.) getting a new job at CCCP... hello! We are not -that- bunch. We do not pay and do not want to pay for apps that we can also do ourselves if we want to...

dhunpael
Caldari
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:23:00 - [1079]
 

Congratulations ccp, you manage to de-prove the game with each patch and idea.
Stop giving us patches and expansions if you keep to F*ck it up.

You have CSM =>USE IT
you have the forums =>USE IT

BEFORE you post something like it's already decided

So next time you want to do something ask the people who are paying you. Or else the'll stop paying...

Indy Rider
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:33:00 - [1080]
 

Edited by: Indy Rider on 16/06/2011 22:33:18
This is just pathetic.

Its people like Chribba, the people who made Capsuleer, EVEMon and no doubt the other programs I dont know that people made for free to make EVE a generally easier experience.

How about instead of making Space Sims you take care of things like RMTers, Botters. Hell, how about you go and make a free app on the scale of those I mentioned above?

I have an idea, go flag all the eve youtube videos for copyright infrigement that people made to teach others how to learn at eve, because lets face it, your tutorials are still s***.


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