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Mia Vola
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:13:00 - [721]
 

New to the game.

There has been allot of announcements from ccp about changes and in the 3 months Ive gone from oh i cant wait to bet i don't reach a battle ship.

I use EveHQ to monitor my skills. when they announce that there pulling down the site because of this. Ill be leaving as well.

Theres just to many bad ideals coming out of CCP, I'm surprised by your "fck you attitude" And "We know whats best". It really feels like your remolding the game to favor DUST and dont give a Fuk what we want.

DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:21:00 - [722]
 

What the hell is happening with you CCP ? Are you guys tired of your own game ?

Can't imagine worst decision then this to nuke your hardcore fans interest in this game. And risky all that in exchange of some lowsy (few) bucks ? Rolling Eyes

Arcathra
Minmatar
Technodyne Ltd.
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:22:00 - [723]
 

What the hell are you smoking CCP? Shocked

This will hurt your fanbase more than it will help them. Okay, I can live with something like a free license for non-commercial websites like corp websites. But those websites generate costs (domain, traffic etc.) and some corps or fansites like to ask for some small donations or use some ads to lower the costs.
Now they will have to pay an additional fee of 99$/year, just for putting some ads on their website or asking for donations. You are forcing them to charge money for even the smallest service those fansites may provide. Are you serious?

I don't expect that much of the current fansites and tools will survive, if this extremly shortsighted plan goes live.

If you really are that desperate to squeeze the last dollar out of your customers, there more subtle ways Wink. For example make the "app-shop" optional for fan developers. If they want, they can host their tool there and charge money for it. CCP can set a little fee on top of that and sell it for a little bit more. This way, the fan developer and CCP win. And your customers can be sure, to buy legit tools for small fees. Maybe the shop could even use PLEX/Aurum as (optional) currency, why not?
Regarding website services: just ask for a registration with an eve account. This way you have your identification. Only force them to pay your fee, if they really want to run their service commercial. Apart from that don't charge any fees if they only use some ads or optional donations to finance their website, even if they are providing downloadable API tools.
Just an idea...


And this can't be quotet too often, because it nails it down pretty much:
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats


Just my 2 cents...

P.S.: Almost forgot... intigrate EFT (or some similar tool) into the damn EVE client. There is no way your customers will pay additional money on top of the already expensive (compared to most other MMO) subscription fee, just to be able to play the game properly!

Zevran Arainai
Free Space Tech
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:23:00 - [724]
 

One of the worst ideas you ever had,CCP.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:26:00 - [725]
 

Save this for the (one) guy who *****ed about not being able to become RL rich off his iPhone app. If you apply this to Chribba, killboards, Evemon, who need to be compensated in donations, to offset costs, for adding value to YOUR game.

Either that, or offer hosting with the $99.

Doktor Csernus
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:28:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.

this

100%

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:29:00 - [727]
 

Originally by: Erichk Knaar
Save this for the (one) guy who *****ed about not being able to become RL rich off his iPhone app. If you apply this to Chribba, killboards, Evemon, who need to be compensated in donations, to offset costs, for adding value to YOUR game, you done ****ed up.

Either that, or offer hosting with the $99.

Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:32:00 - [728]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats


Just so it's even clearer.

lisaaa
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:39:00 - [729]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.

this

just making sure CCCP gets it.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:40:00 - [730]
 

Originally by: amarri victari
oh and one more thing - this train of thought on RMT and suing people....


Even the big multi-billion companies with all their lobbyists and law-enforcement power cannot shut down the black market sites.

And CCP thinks that THEY can do anything about the little black market sites of EVE with the help of licenses?


And for the rest? Yeah, greaaaaaaaat idea to support the community and make it more vibrant by enforcing them to buy a $99 licence so that they are allowed to improve EVE, making it a better place for CCP.


This is just unbelievable. And don't come me with "it is just a draft". Even as draft it is completely idiotic.

Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:41:00 - [731]
 

To be honest, I'm perfectly happy to pay $99 per year.
Providing that I'm also given a copy of the thin client (even if it is station-locked).

I agree with the CSM's comments earlier; one size DOES NOT fit all.

Pure isk ventures should be FREE, each account should have access to a developer license.
RL Donation and ad supported should be minor fee (maybe $5 or $10)
If and when RL subscription services are allowed, then charge $50 to $90 for that license.

My priceless opinion.


Moron78
Blueprint Haus
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:48:00 - [732]
 

Seriously CCP, seriously?

If someone makes a service that they charge for, fair enough. They are, in case, providing a commercial product that relies on a service from you. And as such I have no issue with you saying that if you want to do that there is a fee to you guys. But if I choose to buy Chribba a beer, throw 10 quid at Wollari to offset his hosting cost of a site I use several times daily or throw the aforementioned 10 quid at the guy hosting my alliance forums you are actually going to charge them? The Chribba example aside, you are actually going to do it because they have a donate button?

And then to the professional bit. “Donation and ad supported ventures is a tricky thing to allow without any sort of a commercial license though and that's a legal slippery slope.” I am sorry, this isn’t difficult. There is nothing wrong in requiring everyone to have a license, one being free and another being charged for. Writing the terms of the license so that a site may provide means of donating to it and still remain within the free license is easy. And while requiring a little more drafting its not much more difficult to regulate sites with ads and even, if desirable, differentiating between these. Saying otherwise is either a purposeful attempt at obscuring, or a result of having obtained bad legal advice.

Eclorc
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:51:00 - [733]
 

Great news? LOL (not in an amused way).

This is fast becoming one of the last nails in the coffin for me I'm afraid. I recently resubbed both my accounts for 3 months, it's looking very unlikely that I will sub again afterwards tbqh, almost all of the new directions that Eve is being steered on have been leaving me very disillusioned with the whole thing.

The whole aurum/microtransaction direction, the nerf-bats (instead of raising lesser ships' capabilities to rebalance), the trampling over immersion and "canon" that supports the eve story (pod room/forced decanting into CQ), dumb fleet rules for incursion payouts, aurum for magic-spawned ships scandal, now this latest rip-off of a loyal fan-base just shows how out of touch, and uncaring CCP have become about the game in general and about how little they appreciate the methods and reasons that the community has supported the whole game and companies growth via the MANY value-adding 3rd party apps and sites, that add REAL value to CCP's IP at users' expense already. I am 100% certain that without eve-agent, eve-search, dotlan, EFT and EveMon I wouldn't have stuck around this long.

A donation is a donation, NOT a fee to be paid. CCP HAVE NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER TO TAX DONATIONS OR OTHER SPONSORSHIP GIVEN TO HELP COVER COSTS OF KEEPING A FREE SERVICE RUNNING.
WTG CCP, and to echo previous posters: fire the idiot that came up with this screwed up idea.

The very fact that they have stated this is what they intend to do is frankly a slap in the face from CCP to anyone that has previously helped CCP by adding that value to the product.
If this trend continues and I don't see some GOOD progress in the games' core gameplay and in the decisions being taken regarding the direction of the game then I for one will not be around much longer.


btw. u folks saw the "donations/using intellectual property" bit?
Like, an image is IP.. so use an eve pic on your front page and accept donations, they want a licence fee? Idiots.


Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:55:00 - [734]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 16/06/2011 08:59:18
Originally by: Moron78
And then to the professional bit. “Donation and ad supported ventures is a tricky thing to allow without any sort of a commercial license though and that's a legal slippery slope.” I am sorry, this isn’t difficult. There is nothing wrong in requiring everyone to have a license, one being free and another being charged for. Writing the terms of the license so that a site may provide means of donating to it and still remain within the free license is easy. And while requiring a little more drafting its not much more difficult to regulate sites with ads and even, if desirable, differentiating between these. Saying otherwise is either a purposeful attempt at obscuring, or a result of having obtained bad legal advice.


It is just nonsense, the costs for professional legal advise plus implementation and the possible income from commercial licenses is completely out of balance. The costs can never be covered.


The only reasonable way to do it is to give EVERYONE A FREE LICENSE!


What is the problem with CCP if someone writes a professional app and earns some money with it? It is free promotion for them! Because a professional app-writer wants to promote his app and therefore EVE. Marketing 101. Rolling Eyes

Anton Dimietrav
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:58:00 - [735]
 

Originally by: Arcathra
What the hell are you smoking CCP? Shocked

This will hurt your fanbase more than it will help them. Okay, I can live with something like a free license for non-commercial websites like corp websites. But those websites generate costs (domain, traffic etc.) and some corps or fansites like to ask for some small donations or use some ads to lower the costs.
Now they will have to pay an additional fee of 99$/year, just for putting some ads on their website or asking for donations. You are forcing them to charge money for even the smallest service those fansites may provide. Are you serious?

I don't expect that much of the current fansites and tools will survive, if this extremly shortsighted plan goes live.

If you really are that desperate to squeeze the last dollar out of your customers, there more subtle ways Wink. For example make the "app-shop" optional for fan developers. If they want, they can host their tool there and charge money for it. CCP can set a little fee on top of that and sell it for a little bit more. This way, the fan developer and CCP win. And your customers can be sure, to buy legit tools for small fees. Maybe the shop could even use PLEX/Aurum as (optional) currency, why not?
Regarding website services: just ask for a registration with an eve account. This way you have your identification. Only force them to pay your fee, if they really want to run their service commercial. Apart from that don't charge any fees if they only use some ads or optional donations to finance their website, even if they are providing downloadable API tools.
Just an idea...


And this can't be quotet too often, because it nails it down pretty much:
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats


Just my 2 cents...

P.S.: Almost forgot... intigrate EFT (or some similar tool) into the damn EVE client. There is no way your customers will pay additional money on top of the already expensive (compared to most other MMO) subscription fee, just to be able to play the game properly!


100% agree.. CCP WTF!?Shocked

Collezioni
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:58:00 - [736]
 

First! I love this game, and i know hard to make any game nicer and better. It's all good, but
you guys there in CCP i think starting to fallling down with all of your new develop thing...
I see the future : EvEsims, LOL walking on the station in cute pink clothes ( really think men like to shopping??? ) We come here to fly man!!!
On the ships have nice logo and gun animations ( Just i dont know who can see that ina fleet attack when zoomming out to the maximum??? )
And now kill every free and good ( 3rd party ) stuff what some good guy made for us..... worst worst and worst, I love this game because
so complicated, and age of gamers here higher than 10-12 years old.Really want to be a hard head and follow bad ideas or can change your mind?
i hope eve not going to be only a stupid console game...... Better to fix bugs and throw clothes into the trash :D

thx

Golden Gnu
Gallente
The Golden Gnu Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:03:00 - [737]
 

I need to know what exactly I need a license for:
1) The API
2) The Toolkit
2a) Static data
2b) Images
3) Guides about eve, like mission guides, skill guides etc.
4) Data about eve, data does not use the toolkit or the API

If I understand correct:
eve.nikr.net (My fan site) does not need a license.
jEveAssets need a non-commercial license.

I'll never try to make money from my site/apps, so, It will not affect me much...

But, A lot of people contribute a lot to eve and try to keep their cost down by advertisement... they need an license as well, please, help them, help you...

skepsi
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:06:00 - [738]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




+1 !!!

Mintoko
Gallente
Taedium In Perpetuam
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:10:00 - [739]
 

Edited by: Mintoko on 16/06/2011 09:11:59
I apologize if somewhere within the 25 pages this was mentioned....

"Open-ended - You can charge subscription fees, receive donations, sell your app in an app-store and more"

"No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services."


A developer would be allowed to charge real money for an app or website. Where I believe people are being confused is with the term "in-game service".
Someone would NOT be allowed to charge real money for an *in-game* service, such as mining, ratting, hauling, manufacturing, bounty hunting, etc.
There is no possibility of an app being sold in an app-store for ISK, unless of course, the payment is Icelandic krónur. Very Happy


Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:13:00 - [740]
 

CCP has made a decision, guys. This will happen. No matter what you say in this thread, it won't change CCP's mind.

Kalach'Cha
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:16:00 - [741]
 

CCP, you may think you are doing the right choices due to the increasing ammount of subscriptions you have been getting, but at the expense of screwing with the old faithfuls, this is particulary dangerous considering all of them have multiple accounts, and while that may not count for even half of eve population you are essentially destroying its foundation.

EVE's growth can be compared to that of a house of cards, dedicated players at its base, continuously reinforcing the foundation by getting more and more alts, while new players added height to it. You (CCP) are now, with all your changes, trying to increase it to record heights while also chipping away at its foundation. If you think that's a good thing, then enjoy becoming the new EA, however, unlike EA you wont have the "Too big to fall" trait to buffer your fail when that house of cards will inevitably crash down around you.

Silen Boon
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:18:00 - [742]
 

Edited by: Silen Boon on 16/06/2011 09:47:49
I’ve developed an application to help organise my planetary interaction. It’s not a great application, but I was happy to release it free to the eve community. One reason I was happy to make the application free was because I felt that CCP had a good attitude to third-party developers. Sadly, this appears to no longer be the case.

I understand that CCP does invest a lot of time developing the APIs and releasing resources, which can be used by application developers. It would be unfair if application developers excessively profited from this. However, there is a huge difference between a commercial product created for profit, and the basement coder who just wants to cover their hosting costs.

I believe the commercial license is an excellent idea for applications developers who want to create a product for profit. But requiring a commercial license for donations and ad supported websites is wrong. CCP seems to have forgotten that community created applications are an asset to Eve Online, and their value cannot be measured in monetary terms.

If an application is open sourced, and hosted on somewhere like sourceforge (which has ads) is a commercial license required? If so, is it the host that requires the license, or the application?

Dasola
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:19:00 - [743]
 

Few personal toughs:

If that 99$ is just to cover your costs of running lisence programm, then someone in ccp is skimming money (My real life work requires me to work atleast 5 hours for that money.). Considering i can register to android application developer at onetime fee of 20$ and gain appstore, etc... on that.

What does ccp offer for 99$ a year? Nothing at all. No official api documentation, no application store, no nothing... Heck official api documentation wiki page is empty as it can bossibly be.. :P

Atleast in my country as long as i dont charge users real money, i can pretty much use pictures, etc... under fair use, and expecially since it would pretty much promote original produc( EvEonline), since it would be eve raleted site for example.

But as for not i see no reason to pay 99$ year for nothing.

So enough of bad stuff.

Heres what might make me consider paying commercial lisense:

- Site/service charges real life cash for use
- CCP offers something in return, example: developer available to answer questions related how exactly is api working, or proper official api documentation that actyally covers api and is kept uptodate on latest changes on api...
- Application store to sell applications or their usage in one of following: OneTimeFee (Real money or isk), regular monthly sub (Anywhere from 0.5$ to xx$), monthly isk fee (Yes you claim eve is real), or supporting payment (equal to monthly sub of program/site/service...)
- Ingame advert suport (Get those concord bilboards to actyally working). May cost money/isk- maybe similar to office rental calculations if isk. Preferably included to yearly lisence fee

equcin meey
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:25:00 - [744]
 

now i have not read any thing else then the OP so keep your knicker's on Razz


think CCP should only make the license fee to software app's that want to charge real life money,things like capsuleer and eve universe as they would be making real life money off your IP.

with the 12 month license i can see where your coming from how many app's and player's have stopped playing eve or supporting their own software,so if they stop selling their software or supporting it then why should they have a license to keep selling it.

well thats my 2c worth Razz

Callidus Dux
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:29:00 - [745]
 

Edited by: Callidus Dux on 22/07/2011 09:37:40
Because of persistent ignorance, from CCP, deleted.

vyseman
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:36:00 - [746]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats




Third party tools from fans (like EFT, evemon, dotlan, eve-central, ...), gadgets, fanarts etc. are making online games what they are. Preventing those creative minds from developing stuff for YOU and us is a big mistake.

EA games bought more shares of CCP, right?

Asura Kinkaid
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:36:00 - [747]
 

a giant middle finger to the fans. did i miss the part where you sold out to Activision? Since when is your legal department allowed to set company policy on development? 0 vision. MOTHER****EN MYOPIC.

Glafri
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:37:00 - [748]
 

CCP,

Fire the idiot in charge of rescuing your dwindling subscription numbers while you still have a game!

Love

Glaf

Shonion
FREE GATES
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:38:00 - [749]
 

Seriously, who the hell interested in walking in station, dust and **** like that. This is an INTERNET SPACESHIP game with a good amount of other good thinks as spy, economic, build, manufacture, logistic, marketwarrior, etc not a freaken SPACESIMS.

If i would want to play FPS games, i go and play CS or anything else. If i want to clothes up a char i play SIMS. Seriously.

All player wrote applications is for only to improove that game. Some are free, some are accept donations. They spent a lot of time to improove the gameplay, and do the job, what you forgot to do.

Go and debug the game, or reballance t2 manufacturing, etc, would make better reputation.

Maya Hyde
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:47:00 - [750]
 

The EVE community has always been supporting the game with their creations ranging from software to video productions. Such things serve to spread the word about the game.

This change you are now showing to us will only serve to kill productivity. Most people have to pay for hosting their applications and this change would only screw those people over. Some if not most of those people that make EVE-related applications have no intention of making profit out of their software and are paying for their hosting so that others can use it for free. Thus voluntary donations are the natural thing to ask.

With this change, would you be satisfied if CCP was "advertised" with the following message: "Now accepting donations to cover CCP's licensing fees and hosting"?

What next, charging licensing for making a PVP video? Come on you must see that this only serves to hurt the very playerbase that plays your game.


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