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Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:31:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:47:21

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:51:00 - [2]
 

It sounds uncoordinated, unfocussed and bound to fail. There is no indication that the corp wallet will be used for anything other than lining the pockets of the CEO. No.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:23:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
It sounds uncoordinated, unfocussed and bound to fail.


This is precisely why I joined FW.

With no "solid" structure or "rules" (they are more like "guidelines" anyways Wink ) to dictate what one can and cannot do, people in FW can largely be left to do what they want to do (even if they are in a corp). If there is massive opposition/targets/victims then everyone has the OPTION to band together and go out into the fray. No mandatory ops.

Mekhana
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:42:00 - [4]
 

I originally joined the FW for the FPS mentality.

To hunt.

I've grown roots since then and its pretty much a way of life for me.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:46:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: ShahFluffers
Originally by: Lady Spank
It sounds uncoordinated, unfocussed and bound to fail.


This is precisely why I joined FW.

With no "solid" structure or "rules" (they are more like "guidelines" anyways Wink ) to dictate what one can and cannot do, people in FW can largely be left to do what they want to do (even if they are in a corp). If there is massive opposition/targets/victims then everyone has the OPTION to band together and go out into the fray. No mandatory ops.


Except the OP is implying mandatory ops which do nothing but line the pockets of the CEO while providing 'all the benefits' of simply joining FW and not being told to make someone rich.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:52:00 - [6]
 

Why isn't this in corp recruitment? Its blatant to the point of taking the ****.

Reported for spam.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:18:00 - [7]
 

I originally joined FW for the missions and promptly abandoned those for the pointless and unfocused pvp as you put it. It's pvp for ****s and giggles, the best kind there is. I can't be bothered to sit around for hours forming up to defend a POS with a 99.9% chance nothing will happen. I've simply got better things to do. I may have left FW a couple months ago but that departure was due to the slowing nature of it.

Aristeia Cersei
SQUIDS.
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:21:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Aristeia Cersei on 15/06/2011 19:23:02
Your question is right.. Why would anyone join that corp. lol what on Earth could you possible need much ISK for with a FW corp?

Low sec office rentals are fairly cheap and maybe you need to do a war dec from time to time, but a mandatory PVE day @ 75% taxes. lol People join FW to get PVP, not line some CEO's pockets and have CTA's for missions. Laughing

Do the standard 5% like pretty much every other corp in EVE does and don't try to rob your members. If you are trying to skim off taxes start a high sec corp.


Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:54:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 15/06/2011 19:54:39
You guys are making the assumption that the revenue *is* lining the pockets of the CEO. You do not know that. Only the CEO and his corp members know. Mara- care to share more?

I speak as a former 8-month CEO who ran a Empire and WH corp so I do understand the micro and macro issues of running a corp and trying to raise revenue. The one day 75% tax rate won't work because people will decide not to log in during that day. It's a boycott of sorts.

The CEO is better off implementing a normalized permanent tax rate that would raise sufficient revenue. A corp insurance plan on lost ships is another way I’ve seen corps raise money to fund lost ships as well.

Mara has to give more input as to why the rate is raised and then we can give a more informative response rather than speculation. Too many variables.

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mara Abraham
Would you join such a corporation or would you look for a corporation that had a seven day a week pvp plan, believed in empowering individual members, and had a more normalized tax rate seven days a week?


I can't speak from a FW perspective, but unless PvE day was supporting efficient, timely and lucrative reimbursement, ammo, skillbook, etc. programs, hell no.

All the embezzlement scams in EVE start with the CEO or directors with wallet divisions talking about "big plans for all the isk we'll be making" while pushing down nothing but token scraps to the grunt pilots. Throw in a side order of old money players (probably directors) who don't feel the need to rat/mission and it doesn't take long for the grunt pilot to get disillusioned.

Themba Uhlobo
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:08:00 - [11]
 

The corporation tax system you describe would be a negative factor for any corporation, FW or non-FW. As previously stated, what's the incentive to even log in that one day? What if "that day" of the week was the player's best (real life) day to get isk to be self sufficient? And especially for advocates of freedom in the minmatar militia, that scheme sounds too much like working for the Amarr. There are plenty of folks in jita and the other trade hubs willing to take all my isk for only 1 unit of tritanium. I don't need to join a corp for the same thing.

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:01:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:46:07

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:31:00 - [13]
 

Jesus Christ get out of there ASAP.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.15 21:41:00 - [14]
 

Shouldn't this be an internal issue you should ask the CEOs and directors? They know best as to why they're raising taxes for a day.


Maz3r Rakum
Gallente
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:23:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Mara Abraham
Edited by: Mara Abraham on 15/06/2011 21:03:09
Good day:

Othran, this is not in the recruitment section because no recruitment is taking place.

###

The questions are being raised because the F.W. corp I'm in (granted, I may be kicked for even raising the questions) decided (without discussion or a vote) to have one day a week dedicated to high security space, pve, missions where the tax rate is set to 75% for the entire day (24 hours) for all bounties and all missions; and where all members are strongly encouraged to mission in high security space turning over all loot and salvage to fill the corporation coffers.

While there has been light discussions of members participating in such missions getting a free hurricane insured by the corporation with insurance going to the corporation for any losses, there is no short term or otherwise immediate benefit for anyone participating (meaning, no time line, no plan, no specifics, nothing in writing). From what I'm told, no one has received anything yet (this has already been going on for half a month already).

One member already stated they rat for 10 million isk per hour... and, personally when I cannot find pvp targets (or it is too fleet heavy, some may use the word, too many blobbing on both sides going on), I TLF where while there is LP which is untaxed, that is long term income conversion; and I get 3 million to 5 million isk per mission with the time rewards. One mission run of five to seven missions, and I've enough mission ISK to buy my own Hurricane (the ratter, a little over two hours to get his).

Personally, I would rather be self sufficient buying what I like to fly when I can afford to buy it rather than filling corporation coffers; and, then hoping I will get something I would like to fly when I need to fly it.

I still consider myself very new to the faction warfare space, including being involved in pvp and pvp corporations. I didn't know if the idea they have put into place is a fantastic idea that others should follow, or so full of potential problems that people should just run.

Thank you everyone for your input; I would like to hear more.



Which day do you run your high sec ops?

>:)

Maiev Satellizer
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Maiev Satellizer on 15/06/2011 22:27:41
For the KM hoar!!! Is there any other else?
Oh wait.
5 jumps from your nearest hub base. All the target you need next door.
And yes we dont have nubby BOOBLES.

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:11:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:45:43

Mfume Apocal
Minmatar
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:12:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Jesus Christ get out of there ASAP.


This.

Your CEO/directorate is scamming you.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.16 02:46:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 16/06/2011 23:24:04
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 16/06/2011 02:48:34
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 16/06/2011 02:47:43
The tax day initiative is inconsequential for both sides; player and corp. Players just won't login or will resent being forced to PVE in hisec under the threat of being kicked out. It's only a matter of time that attrition takes over and your matar corp will dwindle to the point that you are slaves to the Amarr again :)

When I ran a WH, I had one guy asked me if I had a ship replacement program. I said yeah; "Go run sleeper sites. That's your ship replacement program." Empowerment is the best way to go.

I don't have an issue with CEOs wanting to skim some money from the corp to fund a plex but at least be transparent about it. Nullsec CEOs do this alot. If he believes he is providing alot of value add to the corp and wants to be compensated, he's better off saying so rather than hiding behind other reasons. Assuming he is. From what I know of TRIAD (mostly just reading your blog and looking at the militia KB), it seems to be a solid corp. If I didn't join Gallente militia, I would've joined Minmatar and most likely TRIAD.

What we have here is a communication issue. He's not clear in his communication and his style is coming off as abrassive to the grunts. I don't believe in a democracy when it comes to running a corp in New Eden. It's okay to be dictatorial but you can do so in a charismatic way so the grunts aren't p.issed off :)

Christine Peeveepeeski
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:15:00 - [20]
 

Lol I hear a lot of rabble rousing on this but actually it's not neccasarily a scam although greater transparency is probably needed in your case.

It's NOT uncommon to see the odd 75%-100% tax day to boost corp wallet levels for pvp but generally I see it in corps that aren't pvp centric or do a little of everything. Ok I wouldn't expect it in an FW corp unless your CEO has some pretty big requirements in ships OR he is indeed lining his pocket (which with a corp I thought was as solid as TRIAD would be a little unexpected.)


Markius TheShed
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:16:00 - [21]
 

I think most people are in FW because of it's easy PVP and the fact that there isn't any of the 0.0 mandatory SOV fleets or POS defence crap.

You can log on for 15 minutes and get a fight and run FW missions to pay for the loses, so this 1 day a week isk raising seems not to fit with FW to me.

I know T.R.I.A.D are the only player corp to offer it's own missions and LP to agency members so all that needs to be paid for and I always wondered how Det raised the funds.

Wouldn't running some FW mission fleets make more isk for the corp? I got a full jackal set from one afternoon of running missions on my own last week.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:49:00 - [22]
 

I joined to get faction standings and nonstop ISK flow.

Flew in some fleets with T1 BCs, didn't like it compared to being outlaw w/ no blues outside of corpies. Less targets, and less fights, less fun.

As far as the corp, set your tax to 0 and just let people make their money individually.

Millie Clode
Amarr
Insert Cool Name Here
Posted - 2011.06.16 11:02:00 - [23]
 

[Obligatory "FW SUCKS STOP DOING IT" comment.]

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.16 13:19:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:46:24

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:24:00 - [25]
 

Perhaps the CEO of that corporation ought to rethink his agenda. Force the corporation to do FW missions one day a week, use the LP to purchase firetails and stabber fleet issues, then go kill everybody in low sec with those OP ships the other six days a week! Very Happy

Those that contribute to the missions automatically get the LP too. No need for massive book keeping.

Otherwise from what I've read, they've done a decent job of getting people to plex by offering internal LP rewards for items - making it worth their time (isk wise) to plex. So it works for them (??). That may be the reason why they run the high sec missions - their corp gets more income. They might want to consider running FW and having the players donate loted tags to the corp instead. They might end up with more isk overall.

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:46:37

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:59:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Deen Wispa on 16/06/2011 17:00:35
Hmm...corp drama. *Getting popcorn*

I personally think the leadership is creating undue administrative burden but it's their corp so do what you want.

Some basic math;If the average isk/hour is 10M for L4 and you have 30 pilots spending 3 hours on that day then your total ratting income is 900M. (10M * 3 hours * 30 pilots)And 75% of that is over 600M for a week. Not bad. But if they've been doing this for a month and still haven't given people ships to use, then that can be fishy...unless they are having logistical issues.

Anyway, find a new FW corp, Mara. Heck join the Gallente side. TRIAD's isk efficiency is only 65%. I thought some of the Caldari FW corps were bad but 65% efficiency isn't gonna help you free the slaves ;)

Hope you keep blogging anyway as I enjoy the entries.

Paul StClair
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:48:00 - [28]
 

I don't like socialism i prefer freedom for people to make their own choices in order to build their own wealth generation and prosperity. If the principles of socialism entered a corp I was in, i would leave straight away... because i don't mind working for my esky but becoming an economic slave to socialism no thank you.

75% tax rate is far too high and this method will only lead to problems within the corp. I questioned once 25% tax rate?? 75% the answer is obvious..... leave.

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:26:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 16/06/2011 22:27:41
Originally by: Mara Abraham
Good day:

I am seeking your input at Why do people join FW? Why did you join?

Even if you are not in FW, if you enjoy PVP, please take the time to answer the following questions?:

What are your thoughts of joining a faction warfare corporation whose practice is to pvp no more than six days a week (it could be less than six days, but not greater than six days)? Where one day a week, if you wanted to pvp, you would be by yourself with no corporation support? Where that one day a week the corporation had a 75% tax rate (impacting rat bounties — which can easily run 10 million isk per hour — as well as TLF mission ISK — which can easily amount to 3 to 5 million isk per mission if you have high social skills and get the bonus ISK), and the expectation for that one day a week is that you would PvE in high security space turning in all loot and salvage to the corporation to fill the corporation coffers? Yes? No? Maybe? Why?

Would you join such a corporation or would you look for a corporation that had a seven day a week pvp plan, believed in empowering individual members, and had a more normalized tax rate seven days a week?


Thank you.



As to the second part I would not join such a corp since I despise pve unless it's needed to fill my wallet a bit again. As to the first question, the reason I joined FW in the first place is because after my first pvp encounter deciding there after never to spend more than necisarry time on pve I started first a bit solo, then joined RvB and after a while there felt it lacking the true nature of EVE pvp, and had learned all I could there.

FW seemed like a good place to expand to without all the rules etc placed on pvp in RvB but with the benefit of actual fleet experience etc. After a short while in general militia fleets I joined up with a corp involved in the gallente side of FW (current corp, we've left FW since then) Once in there I had access to the fleets, intel channels and comms of all the major corps involved in the gallente side of FW with fights ranging from small gang to at one point a fight with over 300 people in local.
Besides that it provided an ISK income with relatively little effort for the rewards which easily kept me in new ships with ISK to spare. The problems with FW become fairly aparent after a while (no real incentive to fight besides the fight itself for one) and the corp decided to leave FW as the majority of the members where sharing that feeling. FW is fantastic for getting your feet wet in PVP as long as you join a serious PvP corp involved in it instead of general militia.

Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:46:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Mara Abraham on 19/06/2011 00:45:54


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