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blankseplocked So tell me again why would you not just have a "paint/decal slot"?
 
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Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.14 15:37:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Ever try removing the paint from your old car and putting it on your new one?

That's why I called'em "decals" Twisted Evil

Ever tried pulling your decals off your old car and putting them on your new one? Twisted Evil

Joking aside. I think the main reason the different paint-jobs/decals/liveries/whatever is made as different item type-ID's is bechause they easily can create new ships in the database.
Adding a bling-bling slot in the fitting window will require a modification in the database itself so that the ship appearace is dictated not only by the type-ID, but also based on whatever is in the new slot. Thinking how complex eve is, the coding (and subsequent potential to break things and create more bugs) would be a rather large undertaking.

Pineapple Squatsauce
Posted - 2011.06.14 15:59:00 - [32]
 

There are a lot of ways to implement the whole paint job thing, but what it really boils down to is time and energy. Adding the ability to customize the skin of a ship by adding a "paint job" module or what have you would require a great deal of work. Like, a gigantic pile. New graphics have to be created, the UI needs to be updated to allow for it, and then you have to rework how the models themselves work. Then you have to make sure that, aesthetically, everything looks a'ite. Provided you get the models to work the way you want them to, it still might cause some difficulty implementing some other feature down the line. I'm not sure if CCP has the manpower available and working on EVE right now to pull that off.

While I agree that the permanent conversion of a standard Scorpion model to a fancy Scorpion model might not be ideal, I do think it's probably the most reliable way of introducing the feature given the current state of the game engine. I think a complete overhaul of the game engine and all art assets would be a wonderful thing, but it ain't happening all at once and it won't be completed any time soon, if ever.

Maybe if this Aurum thing works out well for CCP they can hire additional artists, coders, and modelers and get this thing done.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.14 16:56:00 - [33]
 

Also, a "paint slot" would NOT broadcast to everybody via the overview that you paid AUR to get a ship Twisted Evil

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:10:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Basically, the "paint job" would just be a script for the repair nannies to change the colour of the repairs.
LaughingLaughingLaughing


Well in that case we should all have infinite paint jobs.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:15:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, the "paint job" would just be a script for the repair nannies to change the colour of the repairs.

Well in that case we should all have infinite paint jobs.

Nah, it's mostly a DRM thing. Like T2 BPOs. Twisted Evil

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:24:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, the "paint job" would just be a script for the repair nannies to change the colour of the repairs.

Well in that case we should all have infinite paint jobs.

Nah, it's mostly a DRM thing. Like T2 BPOs. Twisted Evil


I'm sure theres an eve version of ThePirateBay.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:42:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 15/06/2011 14:45:09
Paint-rigs sounds nice.. ship blows up or gets repackaged, you have to repaint it..

Could even stack it.. you could buy pattern-paint-rigs that would be a bit dearer but you could run around with spots or stripes or bubbles or camouflage or checkers or.. hell, I don't know, whatever CCP comes up with.
And then you could have colour-paint-rigs that would be a bit cheaper and work out of the box on the standard dark/bright scheme all ships inherit.

I'd love that.

It's also pretty easily scalable. They could start of with the colour-paint-rigs and work with the standard dark/bright masks all ships already have. And then over time they could introduce the pattern-paint-rigs, which would change the dark/bright masks of your ship.

PS: ..count till 3 until this gets moved to the Forget & Ignore Forums. Laughing

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:42:00 - [38]
 

Akita's suggestion seems like a far superiour solution.

Making every coat of paint possible to apply to every ship is probably a lot of work. A workaround could be to have specialized paint jobs for individual ships, so that a Scorpion paint job wouldn't fit in a Rifter paint slot.

I also suspect that a trade-in option would void insurance and destroy rigs, a paint slot solution could be used on an assembled ship.

Isidore Tailleur
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:09:00 - [39]
 

Yes except they should work like rigs and be destroyed with the ships.

You don't scrap off the paint an re-use it is just silly...

Tric Starless
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:10:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Pierced Brosmen
Edited by: Pierced Brosmen on 14/06/2011 12:35:01
Originally by: Akita T
Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship.

Why should you be able to get your paint-job back? That is like painting your house and then when you move to a new house, you sc**** (lovely profanity filtering there) the paint off the old house and apply it to the new one.... Not gonna look pretty, mate Wink

No, I think the paint job should be permanent, or that you can replace it with another one, but losing the old paint job in the process.


Just make it like a rig slot. Heck, they could probably even re-use some of the rig slot code. The paint Job item could still be traded before using (call it a Paint Job Voucher if you like), but once used, it's effectively gone from game. Makes no difference as far as the $ they'd get from micro-transactions.


Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:18:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 15/06/2011 15:19:12
Originally by: Tric Starless
Originally by: Pierced Brosmen
Originally by: Akita T
Sort of like rig slots, but you can remove it without destroying it. And you get it back when you repackage the ship.
Why should you be able to get your paint-job back? That is like painting your house and then when you move to a new house, you sc**** (lovely profanity filtering there) the paint off the old house and apply it to the new one.... Not gonna look pretty, mate Wink

No, I think the paint job should be permanent, or that you can replace it with another one, but losing the old paint job in the process.
Just make it like a rig slot. Heck, they could probably even re-use some of the rig slot code. The paint Job item could still be traded before using (call it a Paint Job Voucher if you like), but once used, it's effectively gone from game. Makes no difference as far as the $ they'd get from micro-transactions.

Yep, and doesn't give any advances ingame.

CCP Zinfandel.. there is your solution.. go for it!!

Run with it!!

Get some Dev's, get them paid through the revenue this will create.

I'd grab the guy who was responsible for the rig changes 1-2 years ago.. the guy who changed the code so we could have small and medium rigs, besides the multi-fit and now large rigs.
And then you want some art guy who knows what to do with textures and stuff.

Go, go, go!!!


Removed the unnecessary formatting. Zymurgist

Electra GaafCramo
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:22:00 - [42]
 

OP suggests that paint works like a rig, just that it isn't destroyed when removed.

Same goes when I repaint my flat, I usually take all the old paint down from the wall, and put it back in the bucket, ready to be reused at another occassion...

:p

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:33:00 - [43]
 

You are going to be allowed to put your corp/alliance logo on your ship in the future. Thats been stated, so I am taking a WAG here that theres not going to be a unique ship ID for every single ship in the game at that point.

Sounds like releasing unfinished content to me, but CCP doesn't do that.

Althus Treefingers
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:01:00 - [44]
 

You wouldn't necessarily need a brand new texture for each colour. Just one "colourable" texture with desaturated sections that can be colourized client-side on the fly. I've had tons of games in the past that used something similar. Homeworld, for one, being the closest to EVE I can think of. You could pick two RGBs and your entire fleet was painted on the spot. No new textures, just a shader or something.

An added benefit would be that you could probably have a setting to ignore colourized ships on crap gfx cards.

Clavian Voi
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:05:00 - [45]
 

Because it's CCP. Trivializing the momentous and complicating the obvious.

Salomei
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:08:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
You are going to be allowed to put your corp/alliance logo on your ship in the future. Thats been stated, so I am taking a WAG here that theres not going to be a unique ship ID for every single ship in the game at that point.

Yeah, decals are old tech. Got a '90s FPS that shows bulletholes on the wall? Don't think that it calculates, creates, and places a whole new texture for the entire wall. It just slaps a small hole texture over the big wall texture.

You could do the same with paint as would be done with corp logos. Just one decal set for each hull (no need to set T1/T2 apart). Choose your colour when you apply it. The fancy tiger stripes and flame jobs can come later (much later).

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:21:00 - [47]
 

Mechwarrior Series was the last game I played that used Corp tags.

Basically you created a TGA file it had size and limits.
The TGA was basically uploaded by the game and you downloaded other tga's from the server automatically.
IF you had no corp sig you were given a default one so the graphics weren't messed up.

But the scale was a lot smaller on Mechwarrior.
A different method will have to be used for EVE but not entirely.

The paint job reminds me of what they did in Everquest (original)\.
The you could change the color of the cloak/armor but you were overlaying the color on top of the existing texture.
So sometimes the results were good sometimes they were , well interesting.
But you never lost the flavor of the item.

CCP should look at some old games before commiting to much into this.
There may be some fairly simple solutions already out there.

Besides lets face it we are talking vanity items here.



Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:35:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Soden Rah on 15/06/2011 16:36:10
Actually as I think about this more and more the better an idea it sounds...

you could have several 'paint' slots on ships, which would mean you could chose to have
one to modify the base paint job
one to add in corp/alliance decals
one to add a couple of personal decals (like the girls painted on the noses of B17's, Memphis Belle and all that. or guristas donni darko bunny :-))

CCP could charge AUR (if they really have to) for the personal and base paint scripts or whatever, and the Corp/alliance ones would be isk only (EDIT and only purchasable from the corp/alliance who owns/makes them).

you could also make it so that you can get the base/personal paint jobs in game, via rare mission rewards at the end of storyline's or faction/officer drops out in nulsec...
Then you could have those that 'earned their fancy paint jobs' and those that just brought them trying to look cool...

If you make them like rigs so they can't be removed (but make them survive repackaging [coding hard but not impossible, could apply to actual rigs as well, but they increase the repackaged size of the ship]) then they stay rare and CCP still has people wanting to pay AUR for them rather than however much it costs to get one dropped by a officer spawn.

Ideally the paint jobs would also have some provenance so you can tell if it was really won by hard work in game, or is simply a cheap knock-off bought in an AUR store.

Anyone else like this idea?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:01:00 - [49]
 

I like the paint slot idea or all the other sorts of variation ideas, all sounds good to me. The only trouble with these ideas is CCP would likely have to redo a significant amount of code to make it happen.

The client, to load and render an item in the space, likely keys everything off the TypeID and makes all of its determinations of what to draw from that alone. If there was a "paint" slot, then not only does the server need to send that information, but the client needs to evaluate it and then assemble the information into something that it can draw in real time, versus draw something that is already canned and more or less ready to go.

This is of course not impossible to do, but it is different from what is being done now. The less expensive choice, in production terms, was this no-paint-job-slot option.

My preference is the paint jobs, player made skins, so on and so forth ad nauseam, but I do think it important that we consider what it is we're debating.

Soden Rah
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:04:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
I like the paint slot idea or all the other sorts of variation ideas, all sounds good to me. The only trouble with these ideas is CCP would likely have to redo a significant amount of code to make it happen.

The client, to load and render an item in the space, likely keys everything off the TypeID and makes all of its determinations of what to draw from that alone. If there was a "paint" slot, then not only does the server need to send that information, but the client needs to evaluate it and then assemble the information into something that it can draw in real time, versus draw something that is already canned and more or less ready to go.

This is of course not impossible to do, but it is different from what is being done now. The less expensive choice, in production terms, was this no-paint-job-slot option.

My preference is the paint jobs, player made skins, so on and so forth ad nauseam, but I do think it important that we consider what it is we're debating.


it may very well take more work... but you get a much better product at the end that isn't game breaking, and is much more flexible.

As I see absolutely no reason to rush this...

Rykuss
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:04:00 - [51]
 

Why not incorporate this into the repair shops. One stop paint and body shops, no need create any new rigs, modules, interfaces.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Cognito Ergosum
Originally by: Wacktopia
Originally by: Savage Angel
After years of dealing with legacy code, I assure you that some of the new development on a large existing application is working around the sins of the past. Often it is easier to patch up the corner someone before you painted the program into rather than rewriting a large amount of core functionality to make the solution elegant.

I hate doing it myself, but it is a fact of life. We will have to guess as to why a decal job would be more involved than the OP suggests, but if CCP could put stuff out with less work, why wouldn't they?


Because someone somewhere wants to start leaching more $$$ out of the game. Plain and simple.


I've got that bad 'end of product life cycle' feeling.



indeed.

this is exactly what they did with GuildWars once they had started work on GW2 (dust in this case)

They just started adding features and charging for them... such as expanded storage slots for money, etc.... They're just trying to bash every penny they can outta us before the game dies.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:55:00 - [53]
 

CCP << Please consider this thread.

Stop the microtransaction madness.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Soden Rah

it may very well take more work... but you get a much better product at the end that isn't game breaking, and is much more flexible.

As I see absolutely no reason to rush this...


I agree with you 100%. Considering the recent Scorpion-Gate, and now this 3rd party licensing business, I think we know where CCP's priorities are and why we get what we get.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:35:00 - [55]
 

CCP Zinfandel.. the idea is still for grabs.. where are you?

Syphon Lodian
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:44:00 - [56]
 

The current plan for painting ships seems like more trouble than it really needs to be.

This would make sense, but as someone suggested, it's not possible to simply change the appearance of an item without changing the item completely? So you have to exchange 1:1 to get the new appearance.

Schmacos tryne
Posted - 2011.06.16 03:53:00 - [57]
 

Unsupported.

If people wan't to get "vanity stuff" and be flashy, they would better be prepared too lose it in a big bang aswell...

Griefing is going to be raised to a whole new level by blowing up all the unicorn ships floating around in HS. (got a lot of 'fresh out of the oven' BCs in my hangar just for this particular reason^^)

Personally I don't give a fukk about vanity crap but I do see the potential of Crying or Very sad and lots of Crying or Very sad while CCP makes $$$ on their pain Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

MUHAHAHAHAhahahaha...



MUUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:15:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Syphon Lodian
The current plan for painting ships seems like more trouble than it really needs to be.

This would make sense, but as someone suggested, it's not possible to simply change the appearance of an item without changing the item completely? So you have to exchange 1:1 to get the new appearance.


If they make it like the subsystems. If you ever get a t3 or can fly one, go get a stack of subsystems. Depending on the ones you have in the ship design changes.

Example. Not sure what subs are what. but you can mix and match all the different slices and its still a Tengu. If they can do that I'm sure they can implement a slot with an item that just points at a different ship model in the game.

Digital Messiah
Gallente
N7 Corporation
PandaMonium.
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:32:00 - [59]
 

I am a Digital Messiah and I approve of this thread YARRRR!!

CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.06.17 15:41:00 - [60]
 

I am taking some notes from these ideas and adding them to the list. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Speaking very broadly here (meaning without technical accuracy), there is already the concept of separate layers for the ship's paint job and the decals. We are reusing some of the same technology from tattoos and scars for characters to apply decals to ships but it requires ship modes to be prepped to receive them. That means we will need some time to be able to deliver the decals.

I will add these ideas to the list of requests for the game design folks to consider.


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