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ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:38:00 - [691]
 

I guess the time to leave this game is fast approaching, considering i no longer care about stuff like this or the ddos attack yesterdaySad

Ciar Meara
Amarr
Virtus Vindice
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:38:00 - [692]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
In the hopes of clarifying matters, here is the timeline of what happened at the Summit. I drafted the minutes on the virtual goods session, and when this issue exploded I went back, reviewed the video recordings, and contacted Zinfandel to ask him to correct the record.

During the session, Zinfandel presented the AUR-only Scorpion plan, which was to put it up for one week as a test, then take it down and reintroduce it later when the store could handle AUR+Scorpion -> Sparkle-Scorpion.

CSM strongly advised waiting until the full store implementation. We did not like the AUR-only Sparkle-Scorpion idea, even for a week.

In the evenings, after the formal sessions, we all go out to dinner and then to bars (much fun for me, since I don't drink), and there is lots of informal discussions. During this time, there apparently some conversations about the economic consequences of the 1-week sale, and some CSMs were apparently of the opinion that a 1-week sale of premium-priced Sparkle-Scorpions probably wouldn't hurt the industrialists who build regular Scorpions. But that is a separate issue from "this is a bad idea in the first place".

And then, as has become clear, Zinfandel misremembered things, and a threadnaught was born.

Best,
Trebor





Wow, thats actually a clear and well thought out response wich makes things a little clearer at least from the CSM side.

Apart from the low brow, useless or plain idiotic answers from some CSM's you Trebor Daehdoow, you upped my low esteem scale of the current CSM at least a nudge in the right direction.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:39:00 - [693]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 15/06/2011 11:39:28
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
In the hopes of clarifying matters, here is the timeline of what happened at the Summit. I drafted the minutes on the virtual goods session, and when this issue exploded I went back, reviewed the video recordings, and contacted Zinfandel to ask him to correct the record.

During the session, Zinfandel presented the AUR-only Scorpion plan, which was to put it up for one week as a test, then take it down and reintroduce it later when the store could handle AUR+Scorpion -> Sparkle-Scorpion.

CSM strongly advised waiting until the full store implementation. We did not like the AUR-only Sparkle-Scorpion idea, even for a week.

In the evenings, after the formal sessions, we all go out to dinner and then to bars (much fun for me, since I don't drink), and there is lots of informal discussions. During this time, there apparently some conversations about the economic consequences of the 1-week sale, and some CSMs were apparently of the opinion that a 1-week sale of premium-priced Sparkle-Scorpions probably wouldn't hurt the industrialists who build regular Scorpions. But that is a separate issue from "this is a bad idea in the first place".

And then, as has become clear, Zinfandel misremembered things, and a threadnaught was born.

Best,
Trebor





Change that one sentence to "Zinfandel misremembered things, stated that CCP was going to implement re-skinned Scorpions for no cost beyond Aurum, and a threadnought was born" and you're good.

As it stands, your post downplays the severity of the situation far, far too much.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:40:00 - [694]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
In the hopes of clarifying matters, here is the timeline of what happened at the Summit. I drafted the minutes on the virtual goods session, and when this issue exploded I went back, reviewed the video recordings, and contacted Zinfandel to ask him to correct the record.

During the session, Zinfandel presented the AUR-only Scorpion plan, which was to put it up for one week as a test, then take it down and reintroduce it later when the store could handle AUR+Scorpion -> Sparkle-Scorpion.

CSM strongly advised waiting until the full store implementation. We did not like the AUR-only Sparkle-Scorpion idea, even for a week.

In the evenings, after the formal sessions, we all go out to dinner and then to bars (much fun for me, since I don't drink), and there is lots of informal discussions. During this time, there apparently some conversations about the economic consequences of the 1-week sale, and some CSMs were apparently of the opinion that a 1-week sale of premium-priced Sparkle-Scorpions probably wouldn't hurt the industrialists who build regular Scorpions. But that is a separate issue from "this is a bad idea in the first place".

And then, as has become clear, Zinfandel misremembered things, and a threadnaught was born.

Best,
Trebor

If that's how you experienced this props to you guys.

And a pitiful shaming and naming to CCP Zinfandel and his team for even asking such a thing in the first place. Anything that's in the game and can be used to interfere with other players (read: ruin their day) or improves your ability for this is a NON-VANITY item. And those had been banned from Microtransactions some time ago. CCP Hammer promised. Do your homework and don't let this happen again.

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:41:00 - [695]
 

Edited by: Cpt Fina on 15/06/2011 11:41:06
Originally by: notabene
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 15/06/2011 10:21:36
I really hope that the people complaining about this weren't silent when real money for ingame gametime-tradeable items were introduced. The difference I see is that this program (if extended) hurt the industrial community in a much more clearcut way, while cash for gametime-items probably hurt PvP players more.

That program really stand out as the introduction of real life wealth as a potential determing factor of in-game power.
Pimped out scorpions for cash feels like a second step in the same direction.


I said when the PLEX-for-ISK thing was introduced that it was the thin end of the wedge, and I think that I've been proven right.


I'd go even further than that. When it was made legal to trade GTC's for ISK. That was the beginning.


I don't know the technicalities of GTC's and PLEX's but when it was introduced in its first form it was made clear (and the community understood it) that some players henceforth would get a very real in game advantages by paying extra cash.

Alot of people were against it but many were totally fine with it. Anyone who was content at the time but are complaining now, when it has the potential to strike at another sector of the community should look up the defenition of the word hypocrite.

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:53:00 - [696]
 

Edited by: Apollo Gabriel on 15/06/2011 11:57:16
I really love Eve, and I am sad that CCP is going to wreck what I love in the game, loss. I don't want to quit, but perhaps eve is dead and I just need to accept it.

I find it funny CCP has a zero-tolerance line on pink ships, but microtransactions are fuzzy.

Lucilla Giulia
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:56:00 - [697]
 

I honestly doubt that Zinfadel rememberd it wrong (btw isn't that the name of a california grape?)
he was obviously enthusiast of the item store while speaking of it during AT9, so maybe is more like he left something slip out of the "sekret room"? and yes i know this is just speculation
another speculation: has this maybe something to do with DUST being a PS3/Sony restricted game? CCP got something from Sony (that Microsoft didn't want to allow) in turn they asked something, considering DUST is gonna be f2p with MT..maybe that's part of the deal?

on a side note CCP explained the reasons not to make DUST a pc game, "we want new players gettin involved in the franchise" was one of them, so yes they'r targeting players who like MT Confused

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:58:00 - [698]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Change that one sentence to "Zinfandel misremembered things, stated that CCP was going to implement re-skinned Scorpions for no cost beyond Aurum, and a threadnought was born" and you're good.

As it stands, your post downplays the severity of the situation far, far too much.

My intent was not to either inflame the debate, or downplay the perceived seriousness of the issue, merely to state the facts as I understand them so that everyone can make an informed judgment.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:17:00 - [699]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
In the hopes of clarifying matters, here is the timeline of what happened at the Summit. I drafted the minutes on the virtual goods session, and when this issue exploded I went back, reviewed the video recordings, and contacted Zinfandel to ask him to correct the record.

During the session, Zinfandel presented the AUR-only Scorpion plan, which was to put it up for one week as a test, then take it down and reintroduce it later when the store could handle AUR+Scorpion -> Sparkle-Scorpion.

CSM strongly advised waiting until the full store implementation. We did not like the AUR-only Sparkle-Scorpion idea, even for a week.

In the evenings, after the formal sessions, we all go out to dinner and then to bars (much fun for me, since I don't drink), and there is lots of informal discussions. During this time, there apparently some conversations about the economic consequences of the 1-week sale, and some CSMs were apparently of the opinion that a 1-week sale of premium-priced Sparkle-Scorpions probably wouldn't hurt the industrialists who build regular Scorpions. But that is a separate issue from "this is a bad idea in the first place".

And then, as has become clear, Zinfandel misremembered things, and a threadnaught was born.

Best,
Trebor






I appreciate your explanation and it does make sense from your/CSM point of view. However, I'm not believing for one second that a marketing guy "remembered it wrong", but rather "did it anyway because it makes money".

People who don't actually understand the product/company they're working for, whining, trying, annoying people to death till they get their way a little bit, and then a bit more... some more still and suddenly we have a full item mall!

There's a special circle in hell for marketing folks, never strike a deal with them.

Rex Liberium
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:26:00 - [700]
 

Edited by: Rex Liberium on 15/06/2011 12:31:06
Edited by: Rex Liberium on 15/06/2011 12:29:24
Edited by: Rex Liberium on 15/06/2011 12:27:53
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Change that one sentence to "Zinfandel misremembered things, stated that CCP was going to implement re-skinned Scorpions for no cost beyond Aurum, and a threadnought was born" and you're good.

As it stands, your post downplays the severity of the situation far, far too much.

My intent was not to either inflame the debate, or downplay the perceived seriousness of the issue, merely to state the facts as I understand them so that everyone can make an informed judgment.



You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.

Also a CSM member came in here and stated that you(CSM) didnt like the idea but found a 1 week test-period on Tranquility acceptable.

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 14/06/2011 16:27:47
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 14/06/2011 16:21:04
Originally by: Vincent Athena
OK everyone, its gone:

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
I got a break between meetings. I have 11 minutes to post again in this thread. I apologize I haven't been able to read all the posts.

I had a chance to talk to the CSM and get a clarification. I was not remembering it some parts correctly. At that time, we talked about only making the ship available for one week as a test (sold directly for Aurum) and then saving it until we had the correct trade-in or BPC functionality in the store. Then selling it normally.

The CSM didn't like the idea of selling a whole ship, but they could live with a one week test.

What I will do is take the ship off the schedule and just put it on hold for now. We are still going to make it available, but I will wait until August and see how things are going. By then I will know more about how long it will take to get either BPC or trade-in functionality into the store. At that point we can revisit the schedule for introducing the ship.



I bolded the part you should be paying attention to.

1. For one week, you will have: Insert money, get spaceship game! and pray, pray very hard that it actually stops after that one week and the flood gates don't open...

2. The CSM ok'd this. Bad CSM!


We ok'ed this as a way for Zinfandel to be able to gather data and test the popularity of these things. The amount of "creation of items with nothing but $$" would be limited during that period (the "exchange a 'made' scorpion with a golden one was not deemed initially doable due to technical constraints they'd have to program around). So, given the limited time period, it was thus deemed an acceptable compromise for us (although we urged them to postpone the release until they could make a "real trade").

CSM 5 and CSM 6 have made their stance on RMT clear to CCP, and CCP understands the principle under which we are comfortable with them operating.

Obviously, ideally, we wouldn't want any RMT, but it's always a matter of reaching acceptable compromise. Having a die-hard stance will accomplish nothing in this instance. Sooo... Given the limitations, I personally think this is still the way to go. Cut CCP some slack...


1 member of the CSM says: We ok'ed this as a way for Zinfandel to be able to gather data and test the popularity of these things.

1 member of the CSM says: CCP Zinfadel rememberd it wrong.

CSM credibility left: 0

chainedtofate
Caldari
Creative Cookie Procuring
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:28:00 - [701]
 

micro transactions are the devil. they will ruin an otherwise good game and if they become a reality both my subs will be canceled

Bon Hedus
Amarr
Voice of the Blood Raiders
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:31:00 - [702]
 

I enjoy playing Eve. I have been playing Eve for a long time. Eve is not World of Tanks, Combat Arms or any other game that has MT in it. I quit playing SWG when the Devs stopped listening to their player base. I will probably leave Eve when CCP stops listening to their base and chooses to do MT for non-vanity items.

I can barely live with MT for vanity items as I feel it breaks the immersion of the game/sandbox. Anytime you get something for zero work involved in the in-game economy breaks the economy. Even something minor as a vanity item. CCP, you need to listen to your player base on this one.

Bon

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:33:00 - [703]
 

Originally by: Rex Liberium
*snap*
You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.

Not all in the CSM must be against MT for non-vanity items..
That said..

..and if the CSM represents the playerbase somewhat realistic, there must be the odd moron between them too (just check some of the replies here that put plex for isk from other players on the same level as plex for ships-out-of-thin-air from CCP) Laughing
Originally by: Rex Liberium
Also a CSM member came in here and stated that you(CSM) didnt like the idea but found a 1 week test-period on Tranquility acceptable.
*snip*


Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.15 12:47:00 - [704]
 

Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 15/06/2011 12:48:26
Originally by: Tres Farmer
..and if the CSM represents the playerbase somewhat realistic, there must be the odd moron between them too (just check some of the replies here that put plex for isk from other players on the same level as plex for ships-out-of-thin-air from CCP) Laughing

Laughing good point! For example, we need someone who comes in here, asks what all the whining is for since you'll trade a hull for a sparkle hull, then proudly proclaims that it's more fun to troll than to actually read what all the fuss is about; Draco Llasa did this job very well in this thread.

By the way, Trebor, I really like how you handle this in a level-headed, informative way. +1

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2011.06.15 13:01:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: Estephania
Tbh when GTCs were introduced and allowed someone to accumulate ISK without actually playing the game was the moment RL wealth started to crawl into the game. One thing is when someone has many accounts - he actually have to PLAY the game to milk ISK off those accounts. Next step - someone else had to play the game so that the rich guy could have the ISK. We are moving into direction when the same rich guy win't have even to pay someone to play the game to get expensive toys, CCP will simply spawn them for him out of thin air and that will be a totally different game.

Oh no, that poor, hard-working, suppressed common-guy who is forced to make all those ISK for that evil, capitalist, rich exploiter-dude Crying or Very sad I'm sure he cries himself to sleep at night, after he has paid for his three accounts with PLEX, which allows him to play EVE although he hardly has money to pay for his Internet connection. And that exploiter-dude, how dare he log in after a long day's work in the office, buy himself a T2 fit Cane without having to grind for 2 hours? He should be ashamed!

No, it didn't "start" with GTCs. Selling GTC/PLEX for ISK is not the same as converting Aurum to ships Ė those are very different principles, and they are completely independent of each other. If you do not understand this, then gtfo and don't come back until you do.


Reading comprehension 101. Go back to school, take the classes you've missed, then come back. kthxbye

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 13:03:00 - [706]
 

Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 15/06/2011 13:21:36


OK, I sat through as much of this thread as i could as most of it is just mind-numbing ****.

Bottom line: If you want to sell ships for Arum just for "cosmetic" purposes...then make them module-less and un-reprocessable, like rookie ships.

In other words, as useful as a shuttle.

That would balance things out.


EDIT: A word from CCP Spitfire on another thread.

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
The idea is to offer paint jobs for ships, not the ships themselves. The problem is that the first version of the new store, the Noble Exchange, does not yet support trade-ins like, for example, the LP store does (those are actually two different systems).

So the original idea was to offer the whole Scorpion ship with the new Ishukone Watch paint job for a limited period of time. After that, once we added the extra functionality to the store, we would stop offering the ship itself and you would just "get a paint job" (by exchanging a regular Scorpion + AUR for an Ishukone Watch Scorpion, or by purchasing a BPC).

However, after getting some feedback on the forums, we decided not to go ahead with this "ship for Aurum" initiative and wait until the store supports trade-ins or BPCs.

Hope this makes sense; CCP Zinfandel has explained it in more detail here, here and here.


Memorya
Posted - 2011.06.15 13:21:00 - [707]
 

This is the line, where EVE as mmorpg has no longer value and it is draining last $$$ out it's player base.

You like it or not, this is how it goes. Many experienced people have already seen such effect in other mmorpg's.


Time to go.


(I am posting with my main character)

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.15 13:30:00 - [708]
 

Originally by: Memorya
This is the line, where EVE as mmorpg has no longer value and it is draining last $$$ out it's player base.

You like it or not, this is how it goes. Many experienced people have already seen such effect in other mmorpg's.


Time to go.


(I am posting with my main character)


I hope not, but it certainly looks like it on the surface.

I can't help to wonder why CCP seems so excited at the prospect of money transactions. It has rarely done anything good for the games that attempted it.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.15 13:35:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil

I can't help to wonder why CCP seems so excited at the prospect of money transactions. It has rarely done anything good for the games that attempted it.


I don't get it either, they seem to be exited by the Aurum introduction. Most of the players I know see it as some sort of punishment; they will have to pay extra for some game-content.

To be honest, I would rather see the subscription cost rise a little (like 0.5 EUR) than these new microtransactions. (vanity or non-vanity)

TLDR: I feel ripped off by CCP and still they act like MT's are making the game better.

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:21:00 - [710]
 

/rant
The only reason I started playing this game to begin with was because of the player driven market. Almost 4 years ago I read an article in the New York Times discussing this game in great detail, especially the virtual economy that to-date, is the best representation of a real ďfree-marketĒ in the world. As a RL banker, this possibility seemed fantastic, and I eagerly signed up for a trial asap. Fast-forward 3.5 years; since that day almost four years ago, I now have four accounts on annual subs and have participated in almost every facet of this game. The crazy part is that it still engages me to the point that I read the forums and play the game on a daily basis. Itís not the missions or mining that engages me, nor the pvp or exploration. Itís the player-driven market that keeps my interest and dollars going to you, CCP. REMEMBER THAT!!!

Once you start prostituting this aspect of the game, you can kiss my arse and my four accounts goodbye. I make good money and have lots of disposable income; Iíve invested over $2,000 in annual subs, the occasional PLEX and RL Clothing via the EVE Online Store over the last 3.5 years. Hell, Iím even ready to buy a damn PS3 and several copies of Dust514 (for friends) when it releases. Notice, I said Iíve bought PLEX to exchange for isk before, that is not what I have a problem with. You found an ingenious way to incorporate RL $$ for isk to the game and I applaud you for that. MT for existing in-game items w/o including player manufacturers/miners/pirates/traders/etc is not acceptable. MT items for in-game items that affect the outcome of battles, pirating, exploring, etc is not acceptable.

While I am not happy about the idea of MT at all, I can live with some minimal amount of it. As long as it doesnít screw with the player-driven market or have meaningful (more than cosmetic) effects in game. Once you decide to go down that road, you will lose my (and many others, it seems) respect and interest in your game, even if only testing it for a month or a week. This is a terrible precedent to set and know that by doing so you are gambling with a lot of playersí money. You currently have something that works and that people love. Please donít defile it by spoiling the player-driven market aspect of the game. I know itís your game and you can do what you want with it, but itís my money and my support has strings attached.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 14:51:00 - [711]
 

Quote:
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel[...]And if we sell a battleship in a store, that transgresses this important principle.

"Shall I hold this until the store properly supports BPCs or a Scorpion trade-in? Or shall I start selling it now for 3-4 months and then change how we sell it later?"

The CSM had one big question:
-Is there any difference between the Ishukone Watch Scorpions sold whole and the ones sold in trade in?
(The answer is no.)

They said yes [...]


The answer is not ****ing "no" you god damn liars. The answer is "Yes, the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is not made with minerals that came from the game, and the scorpion is. They both have the exact same stats."

I hate to swear at you so much lately but you have crossed the line both in both ethics and what makes a game suck.

Eve; the next Runes of Magic.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:20:00 - [712]
 

Originally by: Rex Liberium
You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.

You appear to believe that CSM wields a Hammer of Sensibility that can force CCP to do what we tell them. Alas, this is not the case. Instead, we swing the Fluffy Pillow of Influence.

Logan LaMort
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:23:00 - [713]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Rex Liberium
You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.

You appear to believe that CSM wields a Hammer of Sensibility that can force CCP to do what we tell them. Alas, this is not the case. Instead, we swing the Fluffy Pillow of Influence.



Shame you can't put a brick in that pillow Twisted Evil

Salomei
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:23:00 - [714]
 

Why is this even a temporary measure!? If it's not done, don't put it in!

Otherwise, why not these:

"We're adding a new calibre of medium artillery, but in its current form it hits for 20000 damage and doesn't need ammo. But we'll try that out for a week until we can implement it as planned."

"We added a new T2 BPO to the game, but in its current form it would be in unlimited supply and purchasable for 20isk in the standard market. But we'll try that out for a week until we can implement it as planned."

"We've made character creation more user friendly, but in its current form all new characters will train as if all their stats were at 30, and be given a starting pool of 30mil SP. But we'll try that out for a week until we can implement it as planned."

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:36:00 - [715]
 

Originally by: Logan LaMort
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Rex Liberium
You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.
You appear to believe that CSM wields a Hammer of Sensibility that can force CCP to do what we tell them. Alas, this is not the case. Instead, we swing the Fluffy Pillow of Influence.
Shame you can't put a brick in that pillow Twisted Evil

Even some peas or potatoes or rubber-balls would do it.. but yeah Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Trebor, if you ever get a chance again to talk to Zimfandel, use your fluffy pillow to suggest the paint-rigs™-idea. It reuses old code, it's a known functional mechanic, it has no effect ingame besides bling, the ships being equipped with it stay with it, the stuff gets destroyed on a constant basis and demand would be huge. Swing the paint-rig-pillow of colours.

Althus Treefingers
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:43:00 - [716]
 

Edited by: Althus Treefingers on 15/06/2011 15:45:41
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
There apparently some conversations about the economic consequences of the 1-week sale, and some CSMs were apparently of the opinion that a 1-week sale of premium-priced Sparkle-Scorpions probably wouldn't hurt the industrialists who build regular Scorpions. But that is a separate issue from "this is a bad idea in the first place".

And then, as has become clear, Zinfandel misremembered things, and a threadnaught was born.

Best,
Trebor

I like this ^

****es me off when someone hears:

"This one bad part of X is less of a problem than it would initially appear, though X is still horrible on the whole."

as:

"I think this one shortcoming of X is a tad overblown and I am, on balance, tolerant or supportive of X."

The point, CCP, was that there are many things wrong with "Aurum + nothing = sparkle ship" besides how it affects scorp-makers. The point was not that since industrialists won't be ruined, it's okay to run with this "trial".

Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar
Spycotics
Posted - 2011.06.15 15:58:00 - [717]
 

Well this whole thread can be closed now, since it's been made clear that CCP are no longer going to be doing the 1 week AURUM for ships test on TQ. Everyone can put their toys back in their prams, grab their dummies and relax again.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:02:00 - [718]
 

Originally by: Logan LaMort
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Rex Liberium
You should inflame or downplay the issue because you should represent us. You can not stay on the sidelines on an issue like aurum-for-ships. If CCP wants to implement it anyway they can go ahead, its their game. Advising against it is something else as saying NO.

You appear to believe that CSM wields a Hammer of Sensibility that can force CCP to do what we tell them. Alas, this is not the case. Instead, we swing the Fluffy Pillow of Influence.


Shame you can't put a brick in that pillow Twisted Evil

Each CSM receives a brand new Pillowcase of Persuasion, because after a while the old one gets encrusted with drool.

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Trebor, if you ever get a chance again to talk to Zinfandel, use your fluffy pillow to suggest the paint-rigsô-idea. It reuses old code, it's a known functional mechanic, it has no effect ingame besides bling, the ships being equipped with it stay with it, the stuff gets destroyed on a constant basis and demand would be huge. Swing the paint-rig-pillow of colours.

As I understand how things are implemented, this would not be possible at present for full paint jobs, but might be a way to implement alliance logos and nose art. Some ideas about these kinds of things were informally discussed over dinners, etc.

Natalie Dorgiers
Posted - 2011.06.15 16:33:00 - [719]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
As I understand how things are implemented, [paint rigs] would not be possible at present for full paint jobs, but might be a way to implement alliance logos and nose art. Some ideas about these kinds of things were informally discussed over dinners, etc.

Given CCP's tendency to reach beyond their grasp, I'd think something involving decals with existing graphics (current textures plus current corp logos) would be much more reasonable than a whole set of custom ship textures. These would be ridiculously popular, are probably much simpler to implement, and will likely generate a good chunk of the hoped-for revenue. The current special edition ship swap idea has all the look of a massive, poor-ROI labour sink.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:28:00 - [720]
 

read up to page 18, then skimmed the rest, so apologies if these have been stated.

better options than releasing the aurArrowship (even for a week):
  1. wait until the trade-in code works
  2. paint rigs: would require rework of many functionalities
  3. BPC: material components=ship(not minerals), manufacture time in seconds. Doing this would invalidate resale on market prior to "painting" though. The inability to stock BPCs shows they are using market, rather than contract code for the noble exchange, and with the emphasis on a secondary market, I can't see this being chosen as an option.
  4. LP store: nexus chip style would be very kludgy and not be very appealing
The problem with the last couple of these is that unless you are in the correct station (manufacturing slots/LP store), you don't get the immediate "wow" factor of what you have just bought, which will put people off.

in Short, wait until the trade-in code works.


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