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Normal citizen
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:00:00 - [271]
 

Well, these ship will be available through isk, however, I think it's stupid to require aurum to begin with. If these ships are just reskins then I'd rather have them as isk sinks. or maybe being isk sinks/aurum sinks.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:00:00 - [272]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/06/2011 11:10:29
Originally by: Hyperforce99
As long as its just basically paying $ for a paintjob there is no impact on the actual game.
And that's the entire problem: in the state it will be released, the store does not support that. To do so, it would have to be able to take trade-ins: inject AUR+Scorp → receive Scorp+Paint. Nice and balanced, AUR is replaced by/exchanged for paint, and the rest remains the same.

Instead, we get a store that has operates on the principle inject AUR → receive Scorp + Paint. Not balanced — items (that can most likely be transformed into minerals, and thus into anything) are spawned out of thin air.

Scott Ryder
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:01:00 - [273]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
For those who missed it before, let's go back over this in better detail. The detail is interesting for many.

Team Stonehenge is making the store (Noble Exchange) and is making it in stages. It's fairly simple and straightforward at present but will be getting more sophisticated over time. Right now it can only sell one kind of thing at a time (no bundles) and can only accept one payment at a time (Aurum.)

It can't do trade-in's.
It can't do BPCs.
It can't sell anything that requires a user interface to use.
It can't highlight an item on sale (they will look like the non sale items.)
It can't sort/filter and only show you one kind of item.
But it will get better.

Other folks are making cool ship art. Other folks are making clothing, etc. One of the cool ships was the Ishukone Watch Scorpion battleship which we brought to the CSM. They got to see a little better view of it than just a screen shot posted in a video broadcast and they thought it looked pretty cool. One of them will likely chime in about it or you'll see it in their meeting minutes which I know they are working on.

So I presented our dilemma to them.
EVE players need to be in control of the EVE economy as much as possible. That's not just a marketing claim, that's what we really believe.

And if we sell a battleship in a store, that transgresses this important principle.

"Shall I hold this until the store properly supports BPCs or a Scorpion trade-in? Or shall I start selling it now for 3-4 months and then change how we sell it later?"

The CSM had one big question:
-Is there any difference between the Ishukone Watch Scorpions sold whole and the ones sold in trade in?
(The answer is no.)

They said yes, you want players in control. You want players buying Scorpions from industrialist players. Absolutely. But in this case this is not likely to hurt the EVE economy because initially people will only buy these ships as a collectible and for fun. This will not affect their purchase of Scorpions for actual fleet warfare. They will still buy as many Scorps - this would just be on extra out of their bling money.

So they recommended we go ahead and begin our learning curve and get the fun ship into circulation.

Now, behind the scenes, we will be monitoring to make sure that Scorpion sales don't crash and that the economy does not suffer. If it does, we can turn off the availability of the ship in minutes. We'll just point out that the Ishukone Watch only made a limited number of ships to sell to capsuleers and that supply has now run out.

If we need to go even slower, we can and will.


CCP Zinfandel Can you now answer the large thread about where faction tower bpcs has gone?
Incase you have missed it, I shall link http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1496995

Thank you good sir :)

Nullity
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:01:00 - [274]
 

Edited by: Nullity on 14/06/2011 11:01:40
Originally by: Evelgrivion

Frankly, I would rather wait the three months. There is no rush among us to acquire these shiny scorpions, and I'd much rather see that there's not even the possibility of risk to the game economy.

So the most wanted feature in EVE is not new skins for ships that cost money? Then, my word! CCP must be doing this solely for a quick buck, and not to satisfy their customer's requests.

Originally by: Normal citizen
Well, these ship will be available through isk, however, I think it's stupid to require aurum to begin with. If these ships are just reskins then I'd rather have them as isk sinks. or maybe being isk sinks/aurum sinks.

It'd be a great ISK sink, but it'll never happen. Aurum is too profitable.

Janos Saal
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:02:00 - [275]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
For those who missed it before, let's go back over this in better detail. The detail is interesting for many.

Team Stonehenge is making the store (Noble Exchange) and is making it in stages. It's fairly simple and straightforward at present but will be getting more sophisticated over time. Right now it can only sell one kind of thing at a time (no bundles) and can only accept one payment at a time (Aurum.)

It can't do trade-in's.
It can't do BPCs.
It can't sell anything that requires a user interface to use.
It can't highlight an item on sale (they will look like the non sale items.)
It can't sort/filter and only show you one kind of item.
But it will get better.

Other folks are making cool ship art. Other folks are making clothing, etc. One of the cool ships was the Ishukone Watch Scorpion battleship which we brought to the CSM. They got to see a little better view of it than just a screen shot posted in a video broadcast and they thought it looked pretty cool. One of them will likely chime in about it or you'll see it in their meeting minutes which I know they are working on.

So I presented our dilemma to them.
EVE players need to be in control of the EVE economy as much as possible. That's not just a marketing claim, that's what we really believe.

And if we sell a battleship in a store, that transgresses this important principle.

"Shall I hold this until the store properly supports BPCs or a Scorpion trade-in? Or shall I start selling it now for 3-4 months and then change how we sell it later?"

The CSM had one big question:
-Is there any difference between the Ishukone Watch Scorpions sold whole and the ones sold in trade in?
(The answer is no.)

They said yes, you want players in control. You want players buying Scorpions from industrialist players. Absolutely. But in this case this is not likely to hurt the EVE economy because initially people will only buy these ships as a collectible and for fun. This will not affect their purchase of Scorpions for actual fleet warfare. They will still buy as many Scorps - this would just be on extra out of their bling money.

So they recommended we go ahead and begin our learning curve and get the fun ship into circulation.

Now, behind the scenes, we will be monitoring to make sure that Scorpion sales don't crash and that the economy does not suffer. If it does, we can turn off the availability of the ship in minutes. We'll just point out that the Ishukone Watch only made a limited number of ships to sell to capsuleers and that supply has now run out.

If we need to go even slower, we can and will.


*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:02:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
For those who missed it

...

If we need to go even slower, we can and will.



CCP does not commit without allocating resources. Sure they screw up, but the Exchange is a cornerstone element and would not have been engaged on for development if it had not been absolutely prioritised for completion. I'm sorry, but this is just completely against how we've seen CCP engage on these things.

So yes, I am calling bull**** on that. It smells much more than someone - again - upstairs wiggling things for a little experiment since I would be extremely surprised if these things were not already committed. That is obviously a worst case scenario, which I honestly hope to be incorrect. But it would not be a first time to occur. We've seen that over the years, time and time again. Stone tablets. At best, there's another glitch in communications here. And somewhere in the middle is another pending screwup with the translation from planning to execution interrupted by stone tablets and little kingdoms. It is these things that cost CCP's its brand integrity. Come on people, you're in business, you're selling a service which is enabled through emotional connect and in service models the baseline economic requirement of trust is sacrosanct. Stop thinking retail.

The last statement kind of says it all. I know, I am slightly taking it out of context here for appearance, but it is still within context of the bigger picture. They will do it, they will go all the way, they will if they have to take it slower but it will not stop them. Step by step.

And on a basis of .. what exactly? I hope to Jove that Hilmar was not serious in his statement during the Alliance Tournament this weekend. We see other people do it, we have to follow, or we get left behind? That is much more an emotional argument than it is a strategic argument. Yes, the latter is also present, but with the first present it is all too easy to place questionmarks at prioritisation on that level. And considering we've seen the traps of "awesome, cause of awesome" and "big, cause of big" and "if it looks good, it is good enough" that really, really worries me. Business, yes, but proper business. Does CCP really strive to be different, or is it all just empty talk.


Vastek Non
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:03:00 - [277]
 

Edited by: Vastek Non on 14/06/2011 11:06:19
Originally by: Nullity
Edited by: Nullity on 14/06/2011 11:01:40
Originally by: Evelgrivion

Frankly, I would rather wait the three months. There is no rush among us to acquire these shiny scorpions, and I'd much rather see that there's not even the possibility of risk to the game economy.

So the most wanted feature in EVE is not new skins for ships that cost money? Then, my word! CCP must be doing this solely for a quick buck, and not to satisfy their customer's requests.

Originally by: Normal citizen
Well, these ship will be available through isk, however, I think it's stupid to require aurum to begin with. If these ships are just reskins then I'd rather have them as isk sinks. or maybe being isk sinks/aurum sinks.

It'd be a great ISK sink, but it'll never happen. Aurum is too profitable.


CCP doing this soley for a quick buck - the calamity. I mean, they have basically denied it, so it can't be true..right...? Rolling Eyes

Edit: Actually some have denied, some have basically confirmed. They have reached the stage of being so pathetic that even their lies require patching FFS.

Jin Endashi
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:04:00 - [278]
 

Edited by: Jin Endashi on 14/06/2011 11:04:31
Now forgive me for not reading through to the last page (got to page 6 before i *had* to respond.)

If the problem is making minerals appear out of thin air for $$$, then the solution is VERY simple.

Just make it so you cant reprocess it. You buy it, and you've got it, unless you trash it (lol), it goes pop, or you sell it. end of story.

Oarta
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:05:00 - [279]
 

I think its fine they go ahead and introduce the ship. It is one ship, so the entire manufacturing industry isn't going to collapse and it is only temporary.

What it will do is give them a sense of how many people are willing to pay or use Aurum to purchase cosmetic items. This I think would be a good thing to know, so they figure out how much budget they can allocate to further custom designs.

Knowing EVE players and thinkers I could imagine a lot of manufacturing people might be upset if they planned ahead and started to stockpile T1 scorpions in anticipation of the jump in demand.

Taking that into account added with all the sky is falling predictions, we should just wait to see how it actually plays out. Again, it's one ship which they can test and track what is done.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:06:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: voiddragon

... why there is so much hate for this at the moment since people have petitioned making customisable ship skins for years and now that they're introducing a system that will allow it ...



This is a tangent, but these are not customizable, they're canned skins. Many people had hoped for a long time, players would do the creative aspects. CCP could have found a way to make it doable in-game, in ways that people would not be flying a giant pink thorax. Or they could have set up a community managed way that only the best full UV map player created textures would be submitted for CCPs final approval. They could have placed MTs on that activity. They choose otherwise.

Nullity
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:06:00 - [281]
 

Edited by: Nullity on 14/06/2011 11:07:37
Originally by: Jin Endashi
Edited by: Jin Endashi on 14/06/2011 11:04:31
Now forgive me for not reading through to the last page (got to page 6 before i *had* to respond.)

If the problem is making minerals appear out of thin air for $$$, then the solution is VERY simple.

Just make it so you cant reprocess it. You buy it, and you've got it, unless you trash it (lol), it goes pop, or you sell it. end of story.

That doesn't solve the problem as the root of the problem is that someone pays CCP real cash to magically spawn a Scorpion for them. This bypasses all normal game mechanics.

Originally by: Oarta
I think its fine they go ahead and introduce the ship. It is one ship, so the entire manufacturing industry isn't going to collapse and it is only temporary.

What it will do is give them a sense of how many people are willing to pay or use Aurum to purchase cosmetic items. This I think would be a good thing to know, so they figure out how much budget they can allocate to further custom designs.


Except it won't indicate how many people are willing to pay for cosmetic items as it won't be a cosmetic item. It'll be an item that affects the game. I'm sure CCP is monitoring how many people are willing to pay for a game-affecting item though.

Jin Endashi
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:07:00 - [282]
 

Originally by: Nullity

That doesn't solve the problem as the root of the problem is that someone pays CCP real cash to magically spawn a Scorpion for them. This bypasses all normal game mechanics.



What do you think happens when someone buys a plex?

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:08:00 - [283]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Hyperforce99
As long as its just basically paying $ for a paintjob there is no impact on the actual game.
And that's the entire problem: the store in the state it will be released does not support that. To do that, it would have to be able to take trade-ins: inject AUR+Scorp → receive Scorp + Paint. Nice and balanced, AUR is replaced by/exchanged for paint.

Instead, we get a store that has operates on the principle inject AUR ↠ receive Scorp + Paint. Not balanced.


What is very suspicious about CCP concerning this revelation is they already have the logic for Ship + Isk --> new ship. It's the LP store. You can't convince me they can't duplicate and modify that logic EASILY to accept aurum instead of LP.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:08:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Nullity
Originally by: Jin Endashi
Edited by: Jin Endashi on 14/06/2011 11:04:31
Now forgive me for not reading through to the last page (got to page 6 before i *had* to respond.)

If the problem is making minerals appear out of thin air for $$$, then the solution is VERY simple.

Just make it so you cant reprocess it. You buy it, and you've got it, unless you trash it (lol), it goes pop, or you sell it. end of story.

That doesn't solve the problem as the root of the problem is that someone pays CCP real cash to magically spawn a Scorpion for them. This bypasses all normal game mechanics.

And this is what it boils down to.

Fix your shop to accept a Scorpion + AUR to get your newly skinned Scorpion and all the rage simply melts away

Nullity
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:09:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Jin Endashi
Originally by: Nullity

That doesn't solve the problem as the root of the problem is that someone pays CCP real cash to magically spawn a Scorpion for them. This bypasses all normal game mechanics.



What do you think happens when someone buys a plex?

It doesn't bypass the mechanics of the game. When someone purchases a PLEX, they engage in real money trading (RMT). CCP, in exchange for real money, spawns the person a PLEX item, which is essentially a promise that CCP will give whoever redeems it 30 days of game time. The ISK people use to purchase PLEXes, however, was all obtained through normal in game means.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:09:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Jin Endashi
Originally by: Nullity

That doesn't solve the problem as the root of the problem is that someone pays CCP real cash to magically spawn a Scorpion for them. This bypasses all normal game mechanics.



What do you think happens when someone buys a plex?


I've gone over this time and time again, but just just for you, I'll do it again.

PLEX does not create anything. PLEX, as an in-game economic tool, is a mechanism through which players can subsidize other player's subscription time for ISK. That ISK does not come from nowhere; it has to be acquired within the mechanics of the game.

When you pay Aurum to magically spawn a reskinned scorpion out of thin air, the ordinary mechanics of acquisition, mining and manufacturing, are completely bypassed.

CCP Zinfandel

Posted - 2011.06.14 11:10:00 - [287]
 

OK, here's a little more information that I had not provided.

We aren't offering everything in the store on day one. We are rolling stuff in slowly. I had scheduled the Ishukone Watch Scorpion for late August. It will already be in the game and finished. It just won't be sold for months. And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.

Let's wait a few months and see if the right thing to do is to keep waiting or roll it out. The easiest way I can ask you guys is to ask the CSM. I will do that first and see what they say.

I have to go jump in some meetings and won't be able to follow this thread for probably the rest of the day.

Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:10:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 14/06/2011 11:03:14
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
:ccp:


Frankly, I would rather wait the three months. There is no rush among us to acquire these shiny scorpions, and I'd much rather see that there's not even the possibility of risk to the game economy.


+1 This, just how hard is it to commit to "Excellence" and release stuff when it's finished not half arsed..

Rykuss
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:11:00 - [289]
 

Originally by: Jin Endashi
Edited by: Jin Endashi on 14/06/2011 11:04:31
Now forgive me for not reading through to the last page (got to page 6 before i *had* to respond.)

If the problem is making minerals appear out of thin air for $$$, then the solution is VERY simple.

Just make it so you cant reprocess it. You buy it, and you've got it, unless you trash it (lol), it goes pop, or you sell it. end of story.


Betting their shop can't do that either. Laughing

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:11:00 - [290]
 

Faith in CCP in 2009 : LOW |------------------------------^--| HIGH
Faith in CCP in 2011 : LOW |^--------------------------------| HIGH

What happened CCP? I'd love to hear what the real devs think about this BS.
I even consider myself to be a fanboy but lately I seem to agree more with the bitter vets.

Get your act together and don't make false promises. Just state the obvious and get it done with: You are turning EVE into a pay2win type of game.

It's your game, you can do wathever you want with it, but just state you intentions in a clear way.

Jin Endashi
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:12:00 - [291]
 

Originally by: Nullity

It doesn't bypass the mechanics of the game. When someone purchases a PLEX, they engage in real money trading (RMT). CCP, in exchange for real money, spawns the person a PLEX item, which is essentially a promise that CCP will give whoever redeems it 30 days of game time. The ISK people use to purchase PLEXes, however, was all obtained through normal in game means.


So, If i give CCP $$$ to spawn me a PLEX (an in-game item) out of thin air, Its different than if i were to pay CCP $$$ to spawn me a skinned scorpion (an in-game item)out of thin air??

Forgive me, but that logic is beyond me.

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:13:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Jin Endashi

So, If i give CCP $$$ to spawn me a PLEX (an in-game item) out of thin air, Its different than if i were to pay CCP $$$ to spawn me a skinned scorpion (an in-game item)out of thin air??
Forgive me, but that logic is beyond me.


Then I suggest you read this topic from the start, that has been explained many times.

Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:14:00 - [293]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
It can't do trade-in's.
It can't do BPCs.
It can't sell anything that requires a user interface to use.
It can't highlight an item on sale (they will look like the non sale items.)
It can't sort/filter and only show you one kind of item.
But it will get better.

As a note, yes it can do BPCs and trade-ins - by selling "credit" or tokens instead of the ship in question. These can then be traded in the LP store for the BPC and/or the ship in question. Admitted, it is a bit kludgy, but so is, say, buying Caldari battleships from an Amarrian jewelry/luxury store, which I think was the back story for the RMT window. (So in that regard, getting a token and then buying the paintjob from the appropriate corp would actually make a lot more sense.)

But I guess this feature will be lobotomized by the CCP after being exploited to hell and back by players before quietly swept under the rug. I am sorry, but the implementation of key features on past patches (faction warfare, planetary interaction, new sovereignty... the list goes on) is not exactly convincing.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:14:00 - [294]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/06/2011 11:22:10
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't offering everything in the store on day one. We are rolling stuff in slowly. I had scheduled the Ishukone Watch Scorpion for late August. It will already be in the game and finished. It just won't be sold for months. And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.
Ok. It's a problem. No "if"s, no "but"s — it's a problem.

In fact, injecting items into the economy out of nowhere is a problem, almost by very definition. If you can wait, do so.

Good luck with the meetings.

Oh, and…
Originally by: Mithfindel
As a note, yes it can do BPCs and trade-ins - by selling "credit" or tokens instead of the ship in question. These can then be traded in the LP store for the BPC and/or the ship in question. Admitted, it is a bit kludgy, but so is, say, buying Caldari battleships from an Amarrian jewelry/luxury store, which I think was the back story for the RMT window. (So in that regard, getting a token and then buying the paintjob from the appropriate corp would actually make a lot more sense.)
Yes, it's a kludge, but if you absolutely have to get the ship in ASAP, this is the best way to do it. AUR store doesn't sell the ship — it sells a newfangled Caldari XT-1 Nexus Chip (or whatever). The IW LP store (which we can open ever since Incursions did away with the need for having LP before you could actually make use of the LP Store window), in turn, sells IW Scorps for the price of 0 LP + 1× XT-1 + 1× Scorp. Or, hell, throw it in the CONCORD store if you want to make it more universally available.

Ugly as hell, but a much better solution to spawning minerals out of nothing.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:14:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Jin Endashi
Originally by: Nullity

It doesn't bypass the mechanics of the game. When someone purchases a PLEX, they engage in real money trading (RMT). CCP, in exchange for real money, spawns the person a PLEX item, which is essentially a promise that CCP will give whoever redeems it 30 days of game time. The ISK people use to purchase PLEXes, however, was all obtained through normal in game means.


So, If i give CCP $$$ to spawn me a PLEX (an in-game item) out of thin air, Its different than if i were to pay CCP $$$ to spawn me a skinned scorpion (an in-game item)out of thin air??

Forgive me, but that logic is beyond me.

If that logic is beyond you, then i advice you to stop posting, because logic is clearly not your forté

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:16:00 - [296]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 14/06/2011 11:16:39
Double post. Delete me plx. Embarassed

Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:16:00 - [297]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
OK, here's a little more information that I had not provided.

We aren't offering everything in the store on day one. We are rolling stuff in slowly. I had scheduled the Ishukone Watch Scorpion for late August. It will already be in the game and finished. It just won't be sold for months. And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.

Let's wait a few months and see if the right thing to do is to keep waiting or roll it out. The easiest way I can ask you guys is to ask the CSM. I will do that first and see what they say.

I have to go jump in some meetings and won't be able to follow this thread for probably the rest of the day.


Done when ready sounds like it is making sense. Or if the new gadget can't do all, you don't need to forget the bag of old ones you've stuffed into the darkest corner of your garage - though some of them might need some oiling and tuning before they work properly.

Rykuss
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:17:00 - [298]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
OK, here's a little more information that I had not provided.

We aren't offering everything in the store on day one. We are rolling stuff in slowly. I had scheduled the Ishukone Watch Scorpion for late August. It will already be in the game and finished. It just won't be sold for months. And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.

Let's wait a few months and see if the right thing to do is to keep waiting or roll it out. The easiest way I can ask you guys is to ask the CSM. I will do that first and see what they say.

I have to go jump in some meetings and won't be able to follow this thread for probably the rest of the day.



Oh there's already a thread up awaiting a response from the CSM.

Sarton Wells
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:17:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.


At the very least make it cost isk as well as Aurum. It still won't be the ideal solution but it will at least lessen the impact on the market. Although it still screws manufacturers since it'll still be creating something out of nothing and entirely bypassing them.

It would be in everyone's best interest to just wait with releasing the ship until the aurum shop can make trade-ins. No amount of money made with this change will be able to compensate for the number of people quitting over this.

Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.14 11:18:00 - [300]
 

Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
OK, here's a little more information that I had not provided.

We aren't offering everything in the store on day one. We are rolling stuff in slowly. I had scheduled the Ishukone Watch Scorpion for late August. It will already be in the game and finished. It just won't be sold for months. And if it's a problem, we won't even start then.

Let's wait a few months and see if the right thing to do is to keep waiting or roll it out. The easiest way I can ask you guys is to ask the CSM. I will do that first and see what they say.

I have to go jump in some meetings and won't be able to follow this thread for probably the rest of the day.



Wait, it gets difficult because whatever the reasons and causes may be they are unchecked for scenarios of consequences in both perception and perspective management, and you point people to a CSM which does not communicate, has chosen to have no pressure management and is 99% under NDA thus preventing any meaningful interaction that could compensate for the communicative issue here on the side of CCP?

Please, don't take this personal, that is not how it is intended. It is clear to us that position != person, but it does not take a genius to see that there is a set of huge disconnects here. On all sides of all picket white fences.

I hope those meetings shed more light.

On the side, I find it very interesting that on each instance of communication on the topic of MT, the discussion of vanity vs convenience vs power items is avoided, and always substituted for comments like "wait, before we continue another step". Honestly, if it comes to such things, just say it how it is, honesty and openness can and always will beat all.


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