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Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.06.13 19:10:00 - [1]
 

After waiting 9 minutes for an opportunity to get drones sicked on the #$&^$%@ perma jamming Guristas I happened to think - could it be? See, I had kept my drones out, just waiting to sic 'em on a locked target when it hit me that maybe having the drones out was part of the perma jam equation. Pulled the drones back in and immediately had an opening to lock a target, launch drones and get on with the mission. 'Course I knew that this might have just been a coincidence, so I tried this on 3 more perma jam Guristas missions before posting. Still might be a fluke - but if it happens to help... (besides CCP fixing the ridiculous situation)


Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.13 19:18:00 - [2]
 

ECCM?

COOLNESS1133
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:32:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
ECCM?


:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:35:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: COOLNESS1133
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
ECCM?


:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

well it does, technically.

problem is, you're being jammed up the whazoo by a ****ton of npc's so the ECCM becomes virtually worthless.

Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:40:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: COOLNESS1133
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
ECCM?


:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire



lmao umad?

Makko Gray
Pheno-Tech Industries
Crimson Wings.
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:52:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: COOLNESS1133
Originally by: Leeroy McJenkins
ECCM?


:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire



Well it works for me. ugh

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:53:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ohh Yeah
:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

eccm has no effect on npc ecm u fcking tard


lmao umad?

He's just unaware. Yes, it have low net effect, but it do work against NPC jam.

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.06.14 16:15:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Ohh Yeah
:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

eccm has no effect on npc ecm u fcking tard


lmao umad?

He's just unaware. Yes, it have low net effect, but it do work against NPC jam.


Tried ECCM - and as Grimpak posted - too many jammers to be able to break through.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.15 07:00:00 - [9]
 

Coul try taking a tonne of Warrior 1's and just chuck them out as soon as you land and see if they take the jamming?

Sentient Blade
Posted - 2011.06.15 07:22:00 - [10]
 

Aye the jamming is a pain in the ass with Guristas, CCP could do with turning it down a notch as there's nothing beneficial to gameplay about being stood there for 5 to 10 minutes trying to get a shot off because you're jammed to high heaven.

Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
Posted - 2011.06.15 07:49:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Ohh Yeah
:GOONSWARMFEDERATION:

eccm has no effect on npc ecm u dragon


lmao umad?

He's just unaware. Yes, it have low net effect, but it do work against NPC jam.
Sicking the dragons on them is a better solution. DRAGONS, ATTACK!

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.15 07:56:00 - [12]
 

FoF Missiles.....

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2011.06.15 08:01:00 - [13]
 

Sensor strength actually does work into NPC jamming.
Why do I know this? Tengu.

Stock mission running Tengu, without ECCM gets jammed up nicely.
Add a few ECCMs, as well as the Dissolution sub, and magically, the jamming is.... rare. (Only happened one time, so far)

Yes, the Guristas have gone nuts with jamming, and jamming strength, but ECCM does help.
The higher one's sensor strength, the lower the odds of getting jammed on any given attempt.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.15 08:04:00 - [14]
 

I finally got a mission last night involving lots of jamming Guristas! *\o/*

And ECCM on my Tengu didn't help! *\o/*

So I warped in a T2 sentry domi and the Guristas evaporated! *\o/*

Who says Gallente aren't worth flying? :)

No, having drones isn't affecting your chance to be jammed, it's just that ECM is chance-based and you got a couple of lucky breaks that coincided with releasing drones. In my case I was facing a half dozen Pithii Eliminators or some such - they're jamming battleships. Even with their 3/36 or so chance of jamming, each of them got lucky often enough that I could only get three salvos of missiles off each minute. It was certainly entertaining :)

CCP recently buffed NPC ECM boats by making them always try jamming. In the past the GMs have sworn black and blue that NPCs have a fixed chance to jam, but players have found that ECCM works to reduce the probability of being jammed. I think both sides are correct - the GMs were reporting about the chance to attempt to jam while the players were reporting the overall jamming rate. With the recent patch, the "chance to attempt to jam" was increased from something less than 1 to exactly 1 - but there was no reduction in the overall number of ECM boats.

Now anyone who has tried to fight against a similar sized fleet with more than one ECM boat in it knows that ECM can be a pain in the arse. This holds true for ECM in missions.

Of course, I'm happily running missions with friends anyway, so being jammed doesn't really hurt apart from reducing total DPS by 1/N. Some people like flying missions solo, so they'll feel the pain of being jammed much more than I do. The solution for them is (a) CCP reduces number of NPCs with ECM capability, (b) solo players move to places they won't be facing so many Guristas, (c) solo players form fleets, or (d) laugh it up fuzzball.

ECCM does reduce the overall jamming rate, but as has been pointed out, it doesn't matter if you halve the chance of each enemy to jam you, there are enough of them that you'll be jammed for a significant portion of the mission time.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.15 08:53:00 - [15]
 

I wonder what people mean by "permajammed", one cycle, two cycles, three?

I have done Gurista missions in a Tengu (no ECCM) since the start of the rat ECM boost and I NEVER had more than 3 cycles in a row. Sure it's annoying but it just makes the mission a few minutes longer, that's basically all.

Kane Cobra
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 08:55:00 - [16]
 

ECCM does work.

On my Raven, i use 1 large shield booster, 1 ECCM at mid slots and 2 Sensor Backup Array. I only got jammed once or two from 6 jamming ships in a Guristas mission. Perma-jamming is old story to me. :D

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 08:58:00 - [17]
 

A Tengu with a dissolution sequencer subsystem has indeed a lower chance of being jammed, still very few ships have that kind of sensor strength, but it is the same with some serpentis. CCP never send them a memo to inform them that sensor dampeners require scripts and were generally nerfed into uselessness.

Hanz Naari
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:11:00 - [18]
 

Maybe it's just me but, once i switched from a standard raven mission boat and
jumped into a navy raven issue, it seems I get jammed less by quite abit in
any of the Guristas missions.

Morrigu Storm
D'tael Contracts
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:22:00 - [19]
 

I've been doing them in a Kronos which has a pathetic sensor strength and sure I get jammed a few cycles but it's never more than an annoyance really.

The mission NPC's that really **** me off are the Serpentis with their damping and sopmetimes the Sansha with the tracking disruptors.

This is my observation anyway.

PS if you put drones on "auto aggro" won't they work a like FOF missiles as well?






Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:24:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Hanz Naari
once i switched from raven mission [to] navy raven issue, it seems I get jammed less


Raven sensor strength 22

Raven Navy Issue sensor strength 27.5

Guristas jam with strength 3, so jam % for Raven is 3/22 or about 1/7, jam % for CNR is 3/27.5 or about 1/9. So yes, you will see significantly less jamming :)

The Offerer
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:26:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
FoF Missiles.....


Yeah... FoF missiles work... like throwing a pie over your shoulder to hit a window that is behind your back in order to break it. You'll do it - eventually.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I wonder what people mean by "permajammed", one cycle, two cycles, three?


Remember that there are multiple ships attempting to jam, the jamming lasts 20 seconds at a time, and most mission boats are battleships with low signature resolutions. So you get jammed for 20 seconds, have 10 seconds jam-free, so before you can finish locking on to the warp scrambling frigate you've been jammed again!

With staggered jam cycles, it's possible to effectively be "permanently jammed" even though you have 6 seconds or so of jam-free time - it doesn't matter if you're not jammed when you don't have enough unjammed time to lock a target and fire your weapon.

Of course the answer has always been, "bring more friends".

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:32:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: El'Niaga
FoF Missiles.....


Yeah... FoF missiles work... like throwing a pie over your shoulder to hit a window that is behind your back in order to break it. You'll do it - eventually.

Yes and the fact that FoF missiles seem to like collidable objects a lot. Best way to use FoFs in my experience is flying towards the jamming ships as FoFs target the closest hostile object.

Goremageddon Box
Posted - 2011.06.15 09:40:00 - [24]
 

I LIKE RASPBERRY JAM

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:04:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I wonder what people mean by "permajammed", one cycle, two cycles, three?

I have done Gurista missions in a Tengu (no ECCM) since the start of the rat ECM boost and I NEVER had more than 3 cycles in a row. Sure it's annoying but it just makes the mission a few minutes longer, that's basically all.


when you run lvl2 mission in Thrasher with only 6 frigate class rats and 1 cruiser class and you need to wait 9-10 minutes to get chance to shoot... It is not fun =) because whole mission is completed in 2 minutes because you only need to tank rats and kill storage silo.

I Love Boobies
Amarr
All Hail Boobies
Posted - 2011.06.15 11:14:00 - [26]
 

I guess they're supposed to be rebalancing NPC ECM with Incarna.


 

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