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blankseplocked saw/played SWTOR first hand, unimpressed.
 
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Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.12 05:23:00 - [1]
 

So my friend got in the swtor beta, and like all people in closed betas, he showed all his friends. so we all sat around taking turns trying out the game, a few were WoW vets and some played other mmos. we all pretty much came to the consensus that swtor, at heart, is a wow clone. The whole 'story driven' part sounds cool in theory, but in action it just draws out menial quests with story and dialogue that no one could possibly care about, and it tells you which conversation choices will give you dark/light points, so its pretty much just conversation grinding. Character creation is a joke, all the races are just human with different skin/twilek hair/horns, and its hard to really make an exciting looking character that you would care about.

all of this was based off playing in the starter areas, so take it for what it is. but if your mmo's starting area is bland, you need to get your **** in order.

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.12 05:32:00 - [2]
 

It even looked like a WoW clone from the videos they kept showing; I'm not really sure what you were expecting.

You know what they should have done? Revived Pre-NGE, Pre-Jedi SWG and used those graphics. If I could get back my Fencer/Creature Handler/Rifleman/Dancer with my ATST and greater sludge panthers with my composite armor and stun baton I would be ALL OVER that game.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.12 08:28:00 - [3]
 

You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision. Not making a WoW-clone would be a bad thing for them. Naturally EVE-players will detest it for being bland, dull and whatnot. But I am sure they will make a decent amount of dough using game mechanics that kids (WOW-fans) love.

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.12 11:30:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 12/06/2011 11:31:34

I doubt any game would stand up to a couple of jealous friends trying to butter down the one guy´s luck on the beta lottery.

Though I´m indeed not very optimistic for KotoR, kids(and quite a few old´uns) these days are just too ADD when there aren´t "Bayisms" every couple of seconds. ugh

The game seems to mostly be a single player version of a WOW in space audio-book.

Zeredek
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.12 14:37:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
SWTOR
29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.12 17:28:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Zeredek
Quote:
SWTOR
29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30 29:30


Oh dear god. Why would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on voice acting and leave those clunky animations in place?

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.06.12 20:17:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 12/06/2011 20:19:40
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision. Not making a WoW-clone would be a bad thing for them. Naturally EVE-players will detest it for being bland, dull and whatnot. But I am sure they will make a decent amount of dough using game mechanics that kids (WOW-fans) love.


You say that based on what? I'm not saying it can't happen, but there is nothing to suggest that it is the way to success. No WoW clone has been a huge success so far and many have failed miserably. Even Blizzard is smart enough to not trying to make their new MMO a WoW clone and is going to try something new and better(Next generation MMO that targets a wider audience, rumor says likely a FPSMMO combined with a social game). The OP also mentioned that the people who tried it were a mix of several different MMO players including WoW vets and if they aren't impressed, where are all the long term players it needs going to come from?

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.06.12 21:55:00 - [8]
 

It has starwars and bioware in the title... It will sell big. Who knows how it will do after the initial release, but probably better than other MMO's to date. Doubtful it will grow to the size of WOW, but hell WoW was a bit of an anomaly.

Now dont take this for blatant fanboism. From the looks of it I can't say I want to buy it or buy into the hype. But I do know enough people will. (I am still wondering how the space combat will be though)

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2011.06.13 00:28:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision. Not making a WoW-clone would be a bad thing for them. Naturally EVE-players will detest it for being bland, dull and whatnot. But I am sure they will make a decent amount of dough using game mechanics that kids (WOW-fans) love.


every game that has tried to beat wow by duplicating its core game mechanics has died miserably after the initial rush

the only way to get ahead is to find something unique

Wrayeth
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.13 04:33:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ayieka
The whole 'story driven' part sounds cool in theory, but in action it just draws out menial quests with story and dialogue that no one could possibly care about


I haven't played it, but I'd disagree with the statement that no one could possibly care about the mission dialogue. I'm probably going to try SW:TOR out, but not as an MMO. Instead, I'll be approaching it as a traditional video game RPG (a la Knights of the Old Republic; funny coincidence, huh?) that just happens to allow you to game with other people if you so choose. TBH, I could care less about the MMO aspect of the game if the story and gameplay are enjoyable.

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.13 04:45:00 - [11]
 

i mean, if you really want to get excited about the backstory as to why Sith Trader #8 needs 10 crisped basilisk urethreas, go nuts.

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.13 07:27:00 - [12]
 

I am inclined to agree with OP. The more I hear and read about TOR, the less I care about (or want to play) the game.


Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.13 11:25:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision. Not making a WoW-clone would be a bad thing for them. Naturally EVE-players will detest it for being bland, dull and whatnot. But I am sure they will make a decent amount of dough using game mechanics that kids (WOW-fans) love.


Why play a wow-clone when there's still wow, which has had 7 years of content updates already?

Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
every game that has tried to beat wow by duplicating its core game mechanics has died miserably after the initial rush

the only way to get ahead is to find something unique


Exactly. All mmo's which have tried to duplicate WoW have either failed or settled on 200k subs or less. I fully suspect Rift to get there aswell, though it has had the benefit of a good polish at release, unlike most other clones. The same would probably go for TOR aswell - Good polish at release, but i doubt it will maintain more than 300k subs after it's second year. That said, by that point it will already have been profitable.

Thing is that there's a few MMO's coming which are (somewhat) new - Guild Wars 2, Tera Online and The Secret World. All 3 have something that sets them apart from the second generation model. GW2 does way with the holy trinity, Tera does away with tab targetting (on that note, GW2 and Tera will play somewhat similar from what i can tell), TSW will differentiate itself with vastly different PVE content, though it lools like it's based on second generation gameplay, albeit with a very different setup (classless, combination possibilities).

I strongly suspect that early next year, when all 3 of those have been released, Blizzard will either officially announce Titan or it will delay the game for 3+ years, and WoW might fall below 10m, dropping to ~8 by the end of 2012, having lost significant numbers to TOR (for a while) and the other 3 i mentioned.

Solus Starcunning
Posted - 2011.06.13 17:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision.


Stop right there, all right? STOP. I've had it with this frankly antiquated argument. Practically every MMO out there is a WoW clone. A prouduct needs to stand out from the other products in order to attract attention -both short and long term. To copy every other MMO on the god damn market does not achieve that.

The first MMO company to decide to copy WoW was onto something, granted, as were the second and maybe third...but take a good long hard look at the list of MMO's on mmorpg.com. There are bloody hundreds of them now. It's like that vault in Fallout 3 populated exclusively with clones of some ****head named Gary.

tldr: YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.06.13 17:57:00 - [15]
 

^

And Wow was another clone of EQ, DAOC, and other MMO's... So what's your point? Because before wow 150-300k sub base was considered a good number. Hell last I checked eve has around 300-400k. (And think eve has so many dual accounts and bot accts) Would anyone call eve a failure?

I don't know if you've noticed, but 2/3rds of the video game industry sells the same product with different iterations. Hell there are eve clones out there now.

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.13 18:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Solus Starcunning
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
You say WoW-clone as if it would be a bad business decision.


Stop right there, all right? STOP. I've had it with this frankly antiquated argument. Practically every MMO out there is a WoW clone. A prouduct needs to stand out from the other products in order to attract attention -both short and long term. To copy every other MMO on the god damn market does not achieve that.

The first MMO company to decide to copy WoW was onto something, granted, as were the second and maybe third...but take a good long hard look at the list of MMO's on mmorpg.com. There are bloody hundreds of them now. It's like that vault in Fallout 3 populated exclusively with clones of some ****head named Gary.

tldr: YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID.


How is his argument invalid when he is right? It is common knowledge that Activision-Blizzard is swimming in cash and has done so for years due to business decisions made regarding their product.

Do you seriously believe that EA or whoever is going to make another niché MMO like EVE when they want to take away the insane market share that WoW has? So yes, SWTOR will be a WoW clone.

tldr: LEARN SIMPLE ECONOMICS
Trolling and personal attacks removed. Zymurgist

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.13 18:39:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Alpheias
tldr: LEARN SIMPLE ECONOMICS


So here's the rub.

The vast minority of MMO players subscribe to more than one MMO. In essence, Bioware wants to steal WoW subscribers.

Why should they spend their money on a new, unproven MMO when they can spend the same money on an MMO which plays exactly the same and has had over 6 years of content updates and polish already? Why would you play that unproven MMO when all of your friends are still playing the established one?

Those economics you mention already killed quite a few other MMO's, or at least, prevented them from growing to any respectable size. AoC, Aion, Warhammer, Lotro, etc - All of them hailed as WoW killers, none of them succeeded, and neither will TOR. As i mentioned before, it'll settle on 300k subs after a year or two at the latest, maybe less.

The people who would want to play "a game like WoW" are already playing it. The market is saturated. In order to get customers to switch from WoW to your own similar game, your game would have to have the polish of 200-300 people working on it for 10+ years - A HUGE investment without any guarantee it will pay off.

However, if you can make a game which appeals to people who have maybe never played an MMO before, aswell as old players looking for something new, you expand the market and vastly increase the potential subscriber base your game could have.

TLDR: Learn simple economics.

Blacksquirrel
Posted - 2011.06.13 18:51:00 - [18]
 

^

Dunno if you've played any newly released MMO's, but tons of wow people buy em still. And after 6 years wow isn't offering that much new content. Now granted plenty of people like the same old same old. Really when you look at theme park MMO's you eventually run out of stuff to do even with expansions.

The lasting appeal comes from how well companies manage the game post launch. I believe Rift is still hovering around 1 million active subs. And sold 1.3 in it's first month. reason being all the free content they release, and that a lot of it can only be done for a limited time, and then never again.

You can say what you want about star wars, but I imagine it will sell big...post launch I can't even speculate.


Solus Starcunning
Posted - 2011.06.13 19:41:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Alpheias

How is his argument invalid when he is right? It is common knowledge that Activision-Blizzard is swimming in cash and has done so for years due to business decisions made regarding their product.

Do you seriously believe that EA or whoever is going to make another niché MMO like EVE when they want to take away the insane market share that WoW has? So yes, SWTOR will be a WoW clone.

tldr: LEARN SIMPLE ECONOMICS
Trolling and personal attacks removed. Zymurgist


So you have pointed out that the creators of WoW are rolling in cash...errr...but what about the 80 other WoW-clone creators? Also, I like how you called me a ****head. I now know how much of an internet tough guy you are. By all means, let this argument be heated - I enjoy heated arguments. But the more you throw personal insults the less respect others will have for you.

N'tek alar
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:11:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Blacksquirrel
^

Dunno if you've played any newly released MMO's, but tons of wow people buy em still.



Yeah, They buy them, Play for the first month, possibly two months, then go back to wow.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.13 20:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: N'tek alar
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
^

Dunno if you've played any newly released MMO's, but tons of wow people buy em still.



Yeah, They buy them, Play for the first month, possibly two months, then go back to wow.


It's the ultimate in trolling by WoW players. New MMO Developers: "OMG! a million subs in the first month! We're successful!" Two months later it's layoffs and free2play as a million WoW players point in unison and scream Ha ha! in a terribad cacophony of mocking and derision.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.13 21:11:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: N'tek alar
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
^

Dunno if you've played any newly released MMO's, but tons of wow people buy em still.



Yeah, They buy them, Play for the first month, possibly two months, then go back to wow.


It's the ultimate in trolling by WoW players. New MMO Developers: "OMG! a million subs in the first month! We're successful!" Two months later it's layoffs and free2play as a million WoW players point in unison and scream Ha ha! in a terribad cacophony of mocking and derision.



Not to mention the impossibility of planning your server architecture.
Month 1 : OMGWTF LAG, LOGIN QUEUES, SERVER CRASHES, OVERCAMPED SPAWNS
Month 2 : TROLOLOL DEAD SERVERS EVERYWHERE, WHY SO MANY, MERGE THEM NAOW!

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.13 21:57:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Solus Starcunning

So you have pointed out that the creators of WoW are rolling in cash...errr...but what about the 80 other WoW-clone creators? Also, I like how you called me a ****head. I now know how much of an internet tough guy you are. By all means, let this argument be heated - I enjoy heated arguments. But the more you throw personal insults the less respect others will have for you.


What about the others? Blizzard has the market advantage here, it does help having a fanbase that happily swallows whilst on their knees which would just be stupid not to exploit. Others companies (EA, Trion and what have you) want to be in that sweet spot that Activision-Blizzard is in now hence the WoW-clones and therefore Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a WoW-clone as well.

I enjoy treating fools for what they are - fool.

Solus Starcunning
Posted - 2011.06.13 22:33:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Solus Starcunning on 13/06/2011 22:36:04
Originally by: Alpheias


What about the others? Blizzard has the market advantage here, it does help having a fanbase that happily swallows whilst on their knees which would just be stupid not to exploit. Others companies (EA, Trion and what have you) want to be in that sweet spot that Activision-Blizzard is in now hence the WoW-clones and therefore Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a WoW-clone as well.

I enjoy treating fools for what they are - fool.


Ah more name calling. Don't you ever get bored of trolling?

Anyway, yes Blizzard are swimming in cash. This has been established, but the various other MMO devs aren't necessarily winning simply because they are are copying WoW. It's really not that hard to compute. WoW is the best at what it does, and then you got several dozen more cheap copies. As others have stated WoW fans try these clones for a month or so for the novelty but eventually go back to Warcraft. Vanguard failed, SWG post-NGE saw scores of players leave and allowed Sony to take a big hit of its reputation, the list goes on.

By the way, how come you aren't insulting any of the other people in this thread who have established that WoW clones are invariably weak? Are you atracted to my character's awesome hair? Is that it? Schoolyard bully-turned-love-interest? My character's hair IS pretty pimp so I can't say I blame you.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.06.13 23:00:00 - [25]
 

**** the haters. I enjoyed my first year in WoW. I loved exploring. I loved questing. I loved leveling. I loved my guildies.


If SW:TOR can accomplish that, I consider it well worth the subscription for a year or so.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.13 23:15:00 - [26]
 

This was bound to happen

Same thing will happen for WoD Online as well.



 

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