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End Yo
Posted - 2011.06.12 01:39:00 - [1]
 

So I got myself a Cruiser because I wanted to do level 2 missions. Most of the time this works well... moderately challenging sometimes but I usually get through it. However, once in a while I end up with a mission that for some god forsaken reason is full of blazing fast frigates that just swarm around me and I cannot possibly hit no matter what I do. I even switched from beam lasers to pulse lasers, adding a tracking link and a webber, but nothing. I just can't hit them and they close on me before I can take them out. So I spend like five minutes being swarmed hitting one of them maybe two or three times with one laser... then I have to warp out. This is the third mission I've had like this except this one has even faster frigates and to add insult to injury, they have webbers themselves. So I'm cruising around at 20 m/s getting pecked away.

What am I supposed to be doing here? Why would they pretty much require you to have a cruiser to do these missions and then put in ships you can't kill with a cruiser? It's so damn frustrating to have a process for gaining money involves a task you can't complete. It's even more frustrating that you can't warp in anywhere but the beacon (where the frigates are swarming) even if you bookmark another location in the area and warp to it.

Anyone have a solution other than fitting a destroyer to kill two frigates and going back for my cruiser? Will this same thing keep happening in higher level missions?

JUS ANANAS
Posted - 2011.06.12 02:05:00 - [2]
 

Light drones are ur friends when trying to take out frigs!

Robot Robot
Posted - 2011.06.12 02:41:00 - [3]
 

As the man said, light drones. Or if you can't field drones, then rely on range. If you're far enough away then you can hit anything. Of course that means that you need: 1. decent optimal, and 2. to be faster than the frigs in question.

Terghon Tu
Amarr
DarkNet Node Fanaticus
Posted - 2011.06.12 05:33:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Terghon Tu on 12/06/2011 05:35:17
The web and tracking computer should work with pulse lasers. You may need better skills if you're taking as long as you said to kill a webbed frigate (probably an "elite" frigate). One thing you might want to check is your crystals. If they're at short range you should be using multifrequency crystals for the most damage.

And while the above two are correct about light drones, the Omen only holds 3 and the tougher Maller has no drone space at all. Still, if you can run 3 light drones in an Omen, frigates should be no trouble for you.

End Yo
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:27:00 - [5]
 

I ultimately skipped the mission. I'm in a Maller so I don't have drone bays, but I ultimately switched to a smaller faster pulse that used less powergrid (so I use 5 instead of 3) and actually has faster tracking. Now I haven't had any problems with frigates in missions since. It lowered my overall damage a bit I think but it allowed me to drop my Reactor Control Unit and have a better overall fit.

Thanks for the help.

Darryl Ward
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:05:00 - [6]
 

You have several options:

Light drones
Stasis web
Improved tracking mods
Get a prop mod so you can outrun them and pick them off at range

I did level 2's in an Omen, that worked out OK.

Higher level missions get worse in terms of this, but you'll be using a battle cruiser in them and can field more drones.

You could also look into getting a buddy to fly a punisher and pick off the frigs. You warp in first and tank the mission, your buddy takes care of the pests.

Ian Morbius
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Ian Morbius on 15/06/2011 19:38:00
....





Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:47:00 - [8]
 

Assault missile launcher also.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:32:00 - [9]
 

Improve your drone skills:
  • Drones 5

  • Drone Interfacing 4 (at Drones 5, each level of DI effectively gives you one more drone)

  • Combat Drone Operation 4

  • Drone Navigation 3

  • Drone Sharpshooting 3

  • Scout Drone Operation 4

  • Gallente Drone Spec. 3

Then get an Arbitrator (the Amarr T1 cruisers kinda suck except for the Arbi) and put light and medium T2 drones in there light for the frigs, and medium for the cruisers then fit something like this (remove that remote repper, it's useless if you pay attention and do propper aggro management; put two small beam lasers in the high slots).

After your drone skills, train for a T2 tank (i.e. Hull Upgrades 5).

Kesshisan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Improve your drone skills:
  • Drones 5

  • Drone Interfacing 4 (at Drones 5, each level of DI effectively gives you one more drone)

  • Combat Drone Operation 4

  • Drone Navigation 3

  • Drone Sharpshooting 3

  • Scout Drone Operation 4

  • Gallente Drone Spec. 3


*snip*

After your drone skills, train for a T2 tank (i.e. Hull Upgrades 5).


That is way too much drone training for someone who is just starting to do level 2s. He really only needs 2 into each skill, and maybe 3 into Drones to operate 3 Drones at a time. He shouldn't even get faction Drone Spec, either. There's really no need until he goes for T2 drones. And he won't need T2 drones to clear out frigates in a L2 or even a L3.

It really sounds like the OP doesn't have the appropriate support skills for shooting things. Does he have any Motion Prediction and/or Trajectory Analysis? I'm betting that he does not. I believe that if he trained both of these these up to level 2 each, his webber and pulse lasers combination would work to kill the frigates in L2s.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.16 10:26:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 16/06/2011 10:26:46
Originally by: Kesshisan
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Improve your drone skills:
  • Drones 5

  • Drone Interfacing 4 (at Drones 5, each level of DI effectively gives you one more drone)

  • Combat Drone Operation 4

  • Drone Navigation 3

  • Drone Sharpshooting 3

  • Scout Drone Operation 4

  • Gallente Drone Spec. 3


*snip*

After your drone skills, train for a T2 tank (i.e. Hull Upgrades 5).


That is way too much drone training for someone who is just starting to do level 2s. He really only needs 2 into each skill, and maybe 3 into Drones to operate 3 Drones at a time. He shouldn't even get faction Drone Spec, either. There's really no need until he goes for T2 drones. And he won't need T2 drones to clear out frigates in a L2 or even a L3.

T2 drones are really worth it (for PVE and PVP), and so is having 5 drones each of those skills will be useful for the rest of his EVE life. Besides, if you train a skill to 2, you might as well train it to 3.

However, I agree that he won't need all of those for lvl 2 missions; still, that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to train them now.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.16 10:27:00 - [12]
 

use destroyer with small guns/lasers.

Now i run lvl2's in Thrasher (matar destroer) and it goes pretty well. Lack of defence but with speed tank usually i finish them all. Good fun! =)

Kesshisan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
T2 drones are really worth it (for PVE and PVP), and so is having 5 drones each of those skills will be useful for the rest of his EVE life. Besides, if you train a skill to 2, you might as well train it to 3.

However, I agree that he won't need all of those for lvl 2 missions; still, that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to train them now.


It does make it a bad idea. See the following statement:

Originally by: End Yo
So I got myself a Cruiser because I wanted to do level 2 missions.


End Yo is new. If End Yo is going up the mission route (I believe this is a safe assumption given the context of the first post) then he needs to train a bunch of support skills and quite possibly train up battlecruisers to ready himself for level 3s. He won't need T2 drones to manage himself in level 3s. He will need more support skills, cap skills, tank skills, a new weapon trained, and most likely battlecruisers trained up.

I haven't even mentioned social skills, which are quite useful to the mission runner as well.

T2 Drones, while helpful, are not necessary for L3s, or even L4s. For a new player, support skills are necessary.

Perhaps older players have forgotten what it's like to be new and how daunting it seems to training a skill which takes 8 hours. Older players tend to scoff at 8 hour skills and say things like "back in my day, we had to train up learning skills, and there were no tutorial missions, and we had to fly uphill to school both ways then we had eat veldspar for breakfast lunch and dinner."

How quickly older players forget that newer players are put off by skills that last more than a few hours. Of course eventually that goes away and newer players learn to adjust and eventually become the windbag who starts saying things like "I have Logistics V, and I trained it while mapped to Charsima. Don't be complaining about your 10 day training time sorry, why I remember that back in my day..." so I can hardly blame you for your viewpoint; it happens to all of us. But I still think it would be a bad idea to get him focused on drones to the point where he can use T2 drones when T1 drones will suffice and there are an oodle of other support skills that he cannot do without.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:50:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 16/06/2011 17:09:48
Use a missile boat.

Drones and frigates can't outrun a missile. Very Happy

The Caracal is a good ship.

It's also cheap.

Load up on skills for heavy missile and rapid launch.

Missile projection and Missile bombardment gives you more flight time (range) if later you need it.

Shield tank the boat with a nano hardener for good measure and a damage control.

Then let her rip.


Wayertu
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:27:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Improve your drone skills:
  • Drones 5

  • Drone Interfacing 4 (at Drones 5, each level of DI effectively gives you one more drone)

  • Combat Drone Operation 4

  • Drone Navigation 3

  • Drone Sharpshooting 3

  • Scout Drone Operation 4

  • Gallente Drone Spec. 3

Then get an Arbitrator (the Amarr T1 cruisers kinda suck except for the Arbi) and put light and medium T2 drones in there light for the frigs, and medium for the cruisers then fit something like this (remove that remote repper, it's useless if you pay attention and do propper aggro management; put two small beam lasers in the high slots).

After your drone skills, train for a T2 tank (i.e. Hull Upgrades 5).


This, more or less. You can get away with lesser levels trained in the listed skills, but eventually you will want those levels and more. 5 light drones on aggressive will mop up level 2s in no time. Just be careful that your arby has attained full aggro and be ready to recall the drones if there is a respawn.

Someone mentioned a Caracal. No need to cross train another race yet if you are real new to the game. Although at some point you will want to. Every character should be able to fly two races of ships so you have meaningful options. With Amarr gallente is easy due to armor tanking and drones skills already trained. Caldari would open up Sansha ships as a future option. Minmatar has a couple armor tanking options and also would open up Blood Raider ships if you want to fly pimp pvp. But for now an arby, harby, apoc or abaddon progression is fine for most missioning. For Angel or Gurista missions you will probably want to be flying a ship from one of those other races.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:09:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Josefine Etrange on 17/06/2011 00:17:43
Originally by: Kesshisan
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Improve your drone skills:
  • Drones 5

  • Drone Interfacing 4 (at Drones 5, each level of DI effectively gives you one more drone)

  • Combat Drone Operation 4

  • Drone Navigation 3

  • Drone Sharpshooting 3

  • Scout Drone Operation 4

  • Gallente Drone Spec. 3


*snip*

After your drone skills, train for a T2 tank (i.e. Hull Upgrades 5).


That is way too much drone training for someone who is just starting to do level 2s. He really only needs 2 into each skill, and maybe 3 into Drones to operate 3 Drones at a time.


Different plans, different skill trainings. You can do lvl 3s more or less with just t2 drones, they do enough damage. You need not much support skills for level 3 IF you have tech 2 drones. You CAN go another route and just get drones to IV and a different skill set, get your support and fitting skils up and do very fine without t2 drones. You still WANT does t2 lights in l4 because of frigs with scramblers, and you still want decent support and fitting skills in l4 either. So both ways are valid I guess.

The main advantage on focus for drones first is imo that you can ignore skills for cruisers and battle cruisers mostly and stick to skills which are useful for a mission runner battleship primary. For a mission runner this sounds not to bad in my opinion. And t2 lights will kill scrambler frigs really fast, which helps if you screw up a mission trigger.

Originally by: Wayertu

This, more or less. You can get away with lesser levels trained in the listed skills, but eventually you will want those levels and more. 5 light drones on aggressive will mop up level 2s in no time. Just be careful that your arby has attained full aggro and be ready to recall the drones if there is a respawn.



You can do l2s even in a long range imicus with t2 drones, just kite the rats once you got their attention.

Vher Vixxen
Minmatar
Megaton m3 Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:55:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: End Yo


What am I supposed to be doing here?



You are supposed to be having fun. Unlike other games, EVE will only be fun if you have a certain level of intelligence (you likely do--many don't) and the desire to LEARN. The urge to jump in and do things that you are not skilled to do or lack knowledge in is common for many players. It is best to study the skills and truly understand what they do for you (in your example, this is key) and to find mates to talk with, preferably with a corporation that is FUN to be with and provides more teaching in a week that will take you three months to learn on your own.

I read a thread on Incursions where a player complained because he lost a ship worth 1.5 BILLION ISK. As was revealed in the thread, this player and his group did no planning, did not have the right type of fleet makeup, lacked logistics, and simply screwed themselves because they wanted to jump in and just do it without knowing what the heck they were doing. They sent in a petition to CCP; perhaps they used the "temporary insanity" line of defense. Razz Another member in that thread went into all the details he and his group did to prepare and went as far as testing tactics and fleet makeups on the test server and other detailed preparations. They made a great profit, figured it out and were successful.

Using your brain is half the fun of EVE; researching, studying, preparing, requesting criticism from others and being open to ideas...these are the things that many other games lack. The fun and success in EVE will be greater for you the more you learn instead of jumping into things and getting slaughtered, like losing 1.5 billion worth of ship due to your own stupidity as this ****** did. Risk is what makes the game exciting--intelligence is how you temper the risk.

EVE does not reward stupidity and laziness. This is a game for thinkers. I hope you end up enjoying the game as much as I do.

Jax Rifter
Posted - 2011.06.17 02:33:00 - [18]
 

Hey End Yo. I'm a new player also and started with Amarr ships.I feel your pain there.

The Arbitrator is your only good Amarr cruiser option for lvl2 missions at low skills. BUT even then you'll still need to spend a good week of training up your drone skills (which are essential anyways).

Get your cruiser skill to III and drones to V. Your goal should be T2 drones but that requires another week.

The reason you cant hit anything is because medium lazors are meant to hit cruiser size targets but 90% of all rats in L2 missions are frigates.

Another option is to fit a Maller with small guns. It can field an amazing tank but with with only 5 guns and no drones you'll be clearing missions at half the speed of an Arbitrator.

If you can afford it an Omen Navy Issue will also do the trick and looks awesome.

Cheers!

skajit spey
Praefecti Aerarii
Posted - 2011.06.17 10:35:00 - [19]
 

I too had this problem moving up the mission ladder. The solution was my transition from simply activating guns in a mission to using SPECIFIC TACTICS to complete the mission. I was in a Moa. Thought the ship was fail with rails. Turns out my TACTICS were fail. My solution was to drop the medium guns one size (200s to 150s I think) for better tracking. Next I had to "fly" the ship rather than "right click approach". One of my favorite tactics was to, once yellow/red boxed by frigs, to make them chase me with my AB on. Once they engage, fly directly away from them, hit the AB and fire the guns. You will want to turn away at slightly greater than your optimal range, as they will close the gap, but not before the wrecks become a string of white pearls. Manage the optimal by pulsing AB as necessary. Fell in love with that Moa....I solo lvl4s now in a Raven....but still fly her from time to time for the fun of it.

Fo the higher level missions your tactics will need to 'evolve' as well, but you will get the hang of it.

Jax Rifter
Posted - 2011.06.17 18:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: skajit spey
I too had this problem moving up the mission ladder. I was in a Moa. My solution was to fly a Caracal. Missions were so easy I could sleep through them.


skajit speaks the truth.

Breen Keldor
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:09:00 - [21]
 

All the responses I've read on this post are absolutely correct. I myself had the same problem. My cruisers were getting blown to pieces. I even habit an arby taken out. But I trained up my secondary armor shield and guns to L4 and fitted a coercer with light beam T2 x8 with Aurora crystals three 100mm tungsten plates one adaptive nano. Three shield extender rigs and lastly a shield booster. Plus I use the tactic of getting them to chase me.my range is greater then my targeting so the moment I'm locked I'm shooting adjective the coercer is fast enough to keep you ahead of them.

Maduin Ardens
Eve Innovations
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:57:00 - [22]
 

[Omen, Legate]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
N-Type Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Medium Armor Repairer II

Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II

Focused Modal Medium Laser I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Modal Medium Laser I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Modal Medium Laser I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Modal Medium Laser I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Modal Medium Laser I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Energy Burst Aerator I


Hobgoblin II x3


Mop up any L2s in the game, you probably will never have to turn on your repair unit if you are docking between missions and you never stop moving with the afterburner going.

Training from the ground up:

Skill plan for Omen

Amarr Frigate I (14 minutes, 29 seconds)
Amarr Frigate II (1 hour, 7 minutes, 30 seconds)
Amarr Frigate III (6 hours, 21 minutes, 46 seconds)
Amarr Frigate IV (1 day, 11 hours, 59 minutes, 42 seconds)
Amarr Cruiser I (36 minutes, 13 seconds)
Amarr Cruiser II (2 hours, 48 minutes, 45 seconds)
Hull Upgrades IV (1 day, 10 hours, 22 minutes, 38 seconds)
Weapon Upgrades II (1 hour, 7 minutes, 30 seconds)
Weapon Upgrades III (6 hours, 21 minutes, 46 seconds)
Weapon Upgrades IV (1 day, 11 hours, 59 minutes, 42 seconds)
Repair Systems III (3 hours, 10 minutes, 52 seconds)
Repair Systems IV (17 hours, 59 minutes, 51 seconds)
Gunnery III (3 hours, 10 minutes, 52 seconds)
Gunnery IV (17 hours, 59 minutes, 51 seconds)
Trajectory Analysis I (36 minutes, 13 seconds)
Small Energy Turret I (7 minutes, 14 seconds)
Small Energy Turret II (33 minutes, 46 seconds)
Small Energy Turret III (3 hours, 10 minutes, 52 seconds)
Medium Energy Turret I (21 minutes, 44 seconds)
Energy Weapon Rigging I (21 minutes, 44 seconds)
Scout Drone Operation IV (17 hours, 59 minutes, 51 seconds)
Scout Drone Operation V (4 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 33 seconds)
Drones III (3 hours, 10 minutes, 52 seconds)
Drones IV (17 hours, 59 minutes, 51 seconds)
Drones V (4 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 33 seconds)
Gallente Drone Specialization I (36 minutes, 13 seconds)


+3 Implants, No Neural Remap, Uniform Stat Distribution
Total time: 17 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes, 2 seconds

Two weeks may sound like a long time, but in the grand scheme of things, you are going to be training all these skills at some point as an Amarr pilot, so might as well get them out of the way immediately so you can have a guaranteed income source.

End Yo
Posted - 2011.06.29 19:27:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: End Yo on 29/06/2011 19:30:03
Where did this come from? I feel like I made this post a thousand years ago. I'm still in a maller for now doing alright with 95% of the missions I receive. It can handle most frigates except for this crazy interceptor frigs with webbers that pop up in a couple of missions. I ended up picking up an Arbitrator for such situations and ultimately down the road after I pick up a BC and have a drone bay available, I will turn it into a nice little pvp thing. It's nice to fly and all but I think my training investment in drone skills will have to be much more complete before it becomes a real mission pro and by then I'll have more than enough for a BC. I can see how an Aribitrator is really the best thing you can use for these level 2s. My Maller with all the investments and tweaks I've made works pretty well but for probably half the cost one could have an Arbitrator with no real weaknesses.

edit: Also at the time I didn't have Trajectory Analysis I'm fairly sure... though my falloff doesn't change much when my optimum is 8km :D

EvEa Deva
Posted - 2011.06.30 00:07:00 - [24]
 

Carry more than one ammo type to change your optimal range, mutifrequency for close up Radio for long range and Standard for med range.
Drones will help out alot but it takes a decent amount of time to train them right.

Also some missions tell you that you dont need to kill the rats and they seem to be alot stronger then normal ones

Starlight Twilight
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.30 06:53:00 - [25]
 

sell the ****ing maller, get the arbitrator, and get your drone skills up

Qalix
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:11:00 - [26]
 

Its your lucky day. Ten Ton Hammer has just published an article on this very topic:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/ships/flying-maller

End Yo
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:07:00 - [27]
 

Ok I guess I didn't make it clear enough. I'm the OP. I took a lot of the advice here. I still use a Maller because I'm pretty heavily invested in it and it works pretty well for 95% of missions. For the other 5% I have an Arbitrator. All is good.

I pretty much have that fit from the link above right now, except I have a salvaging destroyer that is a lot faster than a single salvager and I use a damage control instead of 3 hardeners (and I use adaptive). In place of the salvager I have a small energy vampire just for a little boost. I might shift some stuff around but I haven't decided yet.


 

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