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voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.09 21:48:00 - [1]
 

I was thinking the past few days about the scale and size of us eve players compared to the upcoming dust players. I think, up till now we've been deluded into believing that capsuleers are superior to any other form of human in the galaxy and with this comes a confusion in the size of our ships compared to dust players.
Up until very recently we have entertained the idea that dust players would be our slaves that we could nuke from orbit if it suited us. But now with the latest eve trailer; seeing a dreadnought being one shotted by an orbital cannon and the prices of the dust equipment, I think we're starting to see that dust players are going to have teeth and with CCP's comments on how dust players can choose to invade an eve player's planet for the resources to improve their corporation, I think we're going to start thinking of them as a real threat and not just our minions to command.

So, I was thinking of the size of dust players. How do they measure up compared to our 'massive ships'. Well, a rifter is about the size of a boeing 747, right? So that means a dust MCC will be larger than a frigate? And what about tanks? Those will be about the same size as our small weaponry? Then look at the warbarge which houses and deploys many of these units. Will these be battleship size or bigger?

It'd be nice if we could compare the real scales of the two different games but from what we are now seeing, does this mean that a division of dust tanks could theoretically take down a frigate or destroyer if it was in the atmosphere? Afterall, these ships are designed for high speed in space not an atmosphere.

I'm not speculating gameplay here, just making the observation that dust players are not going to the pushovers we expect them to be.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:08:00 - [2]
 

Dust players will have something like the Empire Strikes back nipple cannon to take down capital ships Very Happy

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:10:00 - [3]
 

I'm going to break your heart but it must be done.

What happens in trailers, doesn't happen in CCP games.

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:14:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
I'm going to break your heart but it must be done.

What happens in trailers, doesn't happen in CCP games.


Well, I suspect that it'll be similar to POS warfare when it comes to orbital bombardment. But you haven't broken my heart as I've always loved games themed like this and it's been so long since a Sci-fi FPS with these kinds of maps and gameplay has emerged. I mean, the only thing that could compete with Dust is Battlefield 2143.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:15:00 - [5]
 

I'm quite excited by the potential numbers of Dusters. With the game itself being free and a much gentler learning curve than Eve Online, you could get a lot of people trying the game out initially. Get them hooked on the territory holding, equipment holding and Eve player tears and CCP might be on to a winner here.

Phenethylamine
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Dust players will have something like the Empire Strikes back nipple cannon to take down capital ships Very Happy


Now I want nipple cannons.

Who will sell me nipple cannons?!

Ische Qou
Amarr
Ische Shipbuilding Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:37:00 - [7]
 

The Dusties will be my slaves whatever you guys say.


REiiGN15
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:53:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ische Qou
The Dusties will be my slaves whatever you guys say.




Maybe you guys haven't read much into what the devs have said about the mercs but they can be very much self sufficient. You thought you little asshats were bad with griefing and pirating, well, hope your income isn't in the form of PI in nullsec. It seems mercs can attack without command. Maybe you can pay them iskes to stop.

I dunno, though, I speculate on information given. But it does seem that mercs can carebear in Highsec and be ****s in nullsec.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.09 22:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: REiiGN15
Originally by: Ische Qou
The Dusties will be my slaves whatever you guys say.




Maybe you guys haven't read much into what the devs have said about the mercs but they can be very much self sufficient. You thought you little asshats were bad with griefing and pirating, well, hope your income isn't in the form of PI in nullsec. It seems mercs can attack without command. Maybe you can pay them iskes to stop.



Yeah they should hopefully end up like privateers in Renaissance era Europe. Pay them and they'll hassle your enemy's stuff.. Don't pay them and they'll start wrecking your stuff instead.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.09 23:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
I'm going to break your heart but it must be done.

What happens in trailers, doesn't happen in CCP games.


Still waiting for the abaddon's giant energy ball of death that can 1-shot capital shipsNeutral

Hugo Smith
Posted - 2011.06.10 00:17:00 - [11]
 

Meh i doubt we have much to worry about... Its for the PS3. So of the 20-30 people who buy the game and dont ditch it when the next Battlefield:Bad Company or Call of Duty game comes out the network will be down 90% of the time

REiiGN15
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.10 00:27:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hugo Smith
Meh i doubt we have much to worry about... Its for the PS3. So of the 20-30 people who buy the game and dont ditch it when the next Battlefield:Bad Company or Call of Duty game comes out the network will be down 90% of the time


See, this is called putting blinders on. I am a console player who happened to get into EVE while not shooting people on the Xbox or PS3. To educate you all in console FPS, we try all games. Yes, when DUST launches, many will flock to it and then some will leave deeming it "not for them". This is no different than a PC game. To say everyone is just waiting for the next BF or COD is just stupid. Remember, it is never good to assume anything.

Let's not forget, there are a crapload more people with PS3 than "beast PCs". DUST will sustain at least 100,000, which more than enough for EVE. Even Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on consoles still average 30,000 people.

Quit throwing this game under the bus because it will affect EVE when it comes out. Console players are coming to your single shard to wreak havoc. This is innovative, so don't live in the dark ages people.

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.10 01:49:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: REiiGN15
See, this is called putting blinders on. I am a console player who happened to get into EVE while not shooting people on the Xbox or PS3. Let's not forget, there are a crapload more people with PS3 than "beast PCs". DUST will sustain at least 100,000, which more than enough for EVE. Even Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on consoles still average 30,000 people.



Oh my, talk about blinders. No, people will not 'flock' to Dust514, because most people will have no
idea what the heck it even is. To get the attention CCP will have to let the game reviewers have a good look and let them play test the game. Most game reviewers already have a horrible opinion of CCP's other product Eve:The Beta and will bring up every single flaw in both Eve and Dust. Also CCP will not be able to tell people "We want to do this!" and "soon" like they can for EvE playersd because the time investment for the console player will not be there. Rainbow Six is a franchise they established themselves with previous titles, if Dust sells less 50k copies it will be a very bad thing and could lead to some bankruptcy or at least some corporate musical chairs.

john rolen
Posted - 2011.06.10 04:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tu Ko
Originally by: REiiGN15
See, this is called putting blinders on. I am a console player who happened to get into EVE while not shooting people on the Xbox or PS3. Let's not forget, there are a crapload more people with PS3 than "beast PCs". DUST will sustain at least 100,000, which more than enough for EVE. Even Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on consoles still average 30,000 people.



Oh my, talk about blinders. No, people will not 'flock' to Dust514, because most people will have no
idea what the heck it even is. To get the attention CCP will have to let the game reviewers have a good look and let them play test the game. Most game reviewers already have a horrible opinion of CCP's other product Eve:The Beta and will bring up every single flaw in both Eve and Dust. Also CCP will not be able to tell people "We want to do this!" and "soon" like they can for EvE playersd because the time investment for the console player will not be there. Rainbow Six is a franchise they established themselves with previous titles, if Dust sells less 50k copies it will be a very bad thing and could lead to some bankruptcy or at least some corporate musical chairs.


For the sake of development I pray you never take hand in creating anything. That overly pessimistic view is in no way needed or really realistic. I don't know enough about how Dust plays to say whether many people will "flock" to it or not, but I can atleast say that Dust has already attracted attention. For one, the time until the beta will be prime time to add hype about the game. Two, even if the beta exposes flaws in eve and Dust that is what a beta is suppose to do and 95% of gamers don't demand a perfect product to count it worthy of their time. This is a revolutionary idea and if you ask me its potential alone will draw a sizable audience to it. Just like EVE I expect it will have humble beginnings and expand exponentially over time just getting better.

As for the reviewers most that I have read or seen have very favorable views of EVE and their main problem with it is that it is challenging to get into. I've dreamed of games like this that players control every part of the game and I think its potential alone has the power to draw players to it. All that aside what your saying isn't realistic its just strait pessimism. I'd hope you would atleat give the smallest piece of support to CCP for their aspirations, rather then predicting their downfall like all you are on here, or EVE for that matter, to do is watch a company burn into ashes.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.10 04:55:00 - [15]
 

When are you people going to learn that trailers are cinematic?

Koori
Navicon Institute
Posted - 2011.06.10 07:19:00 - [16]
 

I think that CCP will go the standard way and design both games so that both groups of players think they are "superior" or "more important". This creates conflict and competition between groups and makes things more dynamic.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.10 08:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tu Ko
Originally by: REiiGN15
See, this is called putting blinders on. I am a console player who happened to get into EVE while not shooting people on the Xbox or PS3. Let's not forget, there are a crapload more people with PS3 than "beast PCs". DUST will sustain at least 100,000, which more than enough for EVE. Even Rainbow Six Vegas 2 on consoles still average 30,000 people.



Oh my, talk about blinders. No, people will not 'flock' to Dust514, because most people will have no
idea what the heck it even is. To get the attention CCP will have to let the game reviewers have a good look and let them play test the game. Most game reviewers already have a horrible opinion of CCP's other product Eve:The Beta and will bring up every single flaw in both Eve and Dust. Also CCP will not be able to tell people "We want to do this!" and "soon" like they can for EvE playersd because the time investment for the console player will not be there. Rainbow Six is a franchise they established themselves with previous titles, if Dust sells less 50k copies it will be a very bad thing and could lead to some bankruptcy or at least some corporate musical chairs.

Considering the rumours that Dust will be available as a free download from PSN, I can safely say that yes, people will flock to the game.
I doubt you have a PS3, but *every* PS3 owner I know with an internet connection spends the first 10-15min of their gaming day browsing through the PSN and downloading any free games available. Bigger titles usually have a HD trailer on the main page of PSN for a a week or two before and during release in order to foster some hype for the game and convince people who would otherwise be ambivalent to 'another' FPS.

So yeh, please feel free to pull some more assertions outta ya ass, mr faceless forum drone

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.10 08:49:00 - [18]
 

I'd say that as a capsuleer, you'd still be a "superior being" compared to a DUST grunt... Yes, both use cloning to cheat death. However, since we have still to see the faces of the DUSTies, it's plausible that the cloning technology they use, though not reliant of a pod to transmit your brain-scan data to the medical bay, are of a cruder and cheaper type. A clone that is not meant to last very long, but where quantity rules over quality. They die a lot more often then (most) capsuleers.

A capsuleer on the other hand has to be severely modified in order to become integrated with the pod/ship intreface, giving him/her the possibility to control starships flight and weapon systems with his/her mind alone.

Thus Capsuleers are by many mortals considered as demi-gods, while DUSTies propably never will, even though they can cheat death as well.

Shanter
Posted - 2011.06.10 09:06:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Mars Theran
When are you people going to learn that trailers are cinematic?


Can't remember if it was the Rock, Paper, Shotgun interview or the QA on the PSN Blog but all the vehicles in the trailer were being piloted by players. Obviously, they aren't going to fly in a nice tight formation or drop off tanks in front of the other team, but that's like the 'gameplay' trailers for every FPS I've seen.

Also, Dust won't sell any copies. It's free.

Kismao
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:12:00 - [20]
 

You can argue about the power and autonomy Dusties may have, but if CCP wanted to be even remotely realistic those war barges will have to enter the Eve universe to operate. They don't stand a chance against Eve Online blockades...

Next thing you know we'll start hearing about atmospheric jumpdrives that operate at ranges to cover the entire universe... Wanna bet?

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.10 12:17:00 - [21]
 


voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.10 13:29:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kismao
You can argue about the power and autonomy Dusties may have, but if CCP wanted to be even remotely realistic those war barges will have to enter the Eve universe to operate. They don't stand a chance against Eve Online blockades...

Next thing you know we'll start hearing about atmospheric jumpdrives that operate at ranges to cover the entire universe... Wanna bet?


In the chronicles and some missions; factions, traders and such have their own stargates and cynosural fields. Capsuleers pretty much use the public transport / public gates. Capsuleers are special cases where they have a lot of control put over them such as concord.

So, if concord were to sanction these mercenaries and allow them to interact with capsuleers, concord would also put methods in place for these mercenaries to get around the galaxy unhindered. So, yeah, there's probably a lot more backstory to be wrote about what concord would do behind the scenes but you get my point.

Read some chronicles rather than taking the eve universe at face value. :P

Reicine Ceer
Rodents of Unusual Size
Posted - 2011.06.10 14:47:00 - [23]
 

Off topic;

Originally by: voiddragon
Battlefield 2143.


Stopped reading here.

Let me guess - you played 2142 for hours... maybe even weeks on end, and then suddenly it dawned on you how badly the game was made? And then you bought Northern Strike, looking to reinvigorate a game you love... so you played it constantly, getting some fantastic memories in the process.. then the servers started to stop working properly, and sometimes you couldn't even log in, and all you could think when you saw the trailers for Battlefield 3 was "...2143 - its gotta be just round the corner.... its gotta be.."

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Reicine Ceer
Off topic;

Originally by: voiddragon
Battlefield 2143.


Stopped reading here.

Let me guess - you played 2142 for hours... maybe even weeks on end, and then suddenly it dawned on you how badly the game was made? And then you bought Northern Strike, looking to reinvigorate a game you love... so you played it constantly, getting some fantastic memories in the process.. then the servers started to stop working properly, and sometimes you couldn't even log in, and all you could think when you saw the trailers for Battlefield 3 was "...2143 - its gotta be just round the corner.... its gotta be.."


So, you don't like 2142? :P And no, I played it casually like any other game I had at the time when I was a 14 year old and had just begun to form a collection of PC games. Had been playing eve for about half a year then... it's been a long time.

Zakua Corbin
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:19:00 - [25]
 

Im interested in seeing the scale comparrisons aswell. I would guess that the warbarge would be the size of a BS or smaller. I do not console game but am still excited to see how all this lays out....hard to even guess right now as we have limited info. I'd buy a PS3 tomorrow if the games looked half as good as they do on my PC but that just cant happen with a PS3 so no dust for me.

I am stoked to see how all the PI unfolds, in any case Dust will add a new element to our game and I look forward to it.

Hey I like BF games, Have them all. The BF series gives me some entertainment if I need a quick down and dirty FPS fix.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:25:00 - [26]
 

First off its a planetary facility, the facility in the trailer looked it sprawled over 4kms area and we have no idea how deep that 'barrel' is buried far as Im concerned about 10% above surface.

I mean how many more reactors and cooling towers you can slap onto a GUN on the ground verses your spaceship which has to have alot of other things than just fire control like life support navigation shield generators ect ect and you only have limited amount of room for all of that, a planet doenst have to worry about such.

The tanks I will have to say are ALOT larger than mordern tanks or feel that way I havent seen anyone get close enough to realy determine that, as we all know alot of shooters dont have the camera exactly at eye level of the character model its usually two to three 'inches' above the eyes.

Mithrasith
Posted - 2011.06.10 15:32:00 - [27]
 

It would have been way more successful if they had taken the Tribes franchise and moved into CCP.

Jet Packs +meaningful combat and the fun of Tribes would have been ub3r w1n

Of course they would have had to solve the problem with console controllers and Tribes controls which never matched up (Console controls are not precise enough)..


Joras Fett
Posted - 2011.06.10 16:03:00 - [28]
 

I'm interested to see how much PI will change with the advent of Dust. I foresee crap though. Dust 514 looks amazing. Looks like a helova lot of fun. I'll probably own it and play it. My only problem is that my characters are starting out and make between 100 and 200mil isk/month and that goes for ships I lose, factional warfare, etc. I dont' consider myself a "broke" eve player, and I refuse to buy PLEX for isk. A good lump of my income comes from PI. My problem is that if I'm constantly losing a 10mil/isk setup because of dusters, how am I ever going to set something up that remains long enough for it to be profitable. PI will be a waste of time for anyone that doesn't make billions of isk a month (who has billions to attack and take over other people's networks and defend their own).

On a different note. Stoked for this game. Love CCP games and the vast amounts of arithmetic they put into these games making them semi-realistic (obviously having a cargobay that's techincally bigger than the ship it's in is kind of insane, but there are the small things). I wonder if you'll have to buy base defenses. NPC groups that patrol your installations and defend it.

What will frustrate me to no end is logging in and finding that another of my installations is being hit or has been hit and taken over or what have you. I foresee a lot of capsuleers ditching PI all together for that reason. The majority of PI will be done by a group of super wealthy capsuleers who have been playing for years that own entire constellations of PI because they've just conquested that long. Prices on everything goes through the roof. The dissolving of the "middle class" into the Isk Supergiants and the casual gamers and other broke people who get their isk by mission running. Economics 101 - the one who has the most cash makes the rules (this is also what I love about EVE). Good luck on a new person ever getting anything out of EVE more than "I run missions and get blown up by carebares who hunt industrial ships."

I don't know how Dust will affect PI specifically, but it sounds almost detrimental. My initial outlook on this game is pretty negative. There needs to be some huge limitations on who, what, and how much.

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.10 16:06:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Joras Fett
I'm interested to see how much PI will change with the advent of Dust. I foresee crap though. Dust 514 looks amazing. Looks like a helova lot of fun. I'll probably own it and play it. My only problem is that my characters are starting out and make between 100 and 200mil isk/month and that goes for ships I lose, factional warfare, etc. I dont' consider myself a "broke" eve player, and I refuse to buy PLEX for isk. A good lump of my income comes from PI. My problem is that if I'm constantly losing a 10mil/isk setup because of dusters, how am I ever going to set something up that remains long enough for it to be profitable. PI will be a waste of time for anyone that doesn't make billions of isk a month (who has billions to attack and take over other people's networks and defend their own).

On a different note. Stoked for this game. Love CCP games and the vast amounts of arithmetic they put into these games making them semi-realistic (obviously having a cargobay that's techincally bigger than the ship it's in is kind of insane, but there are the small things). I wonder if you'll have to buy base defenses. NPC groups that patrol your installations and defend it.

What will frustrate me to no end is logging in and finding that another of my installations is being hit or has been hit and taken over or what have you. I foresee a lot of capsuleers ditching PI all together for that reason. The majority of PI will be done by a group of super wealthy capsuleers who have been playing for years that own entire constellations of PI because they've just conquested that long. Prices on everything goes through the roof. The dissolving of the "middle class" into the Isk Supergiants and the casual gamers and other broke people who get their isk by mission running. Economics 101 - the one who has the most cash makes the rules (this is also what I love about EVE). Good luck on a new person ever getting anything out of EVE more than "I run missions and get blown up by carebares who hunt industrial ships."

I don't know how Dust will affect PI specifically, but it sounds almost detrimental. My initial outlook on this game is pretty negative. There needs to be some huge limitations on who, what, and how much.


well, it's only in nullsec at the moment. So... welcome to nullsec and eve. :P I'm not being condescending, it's just an easier way of saying my point.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2011.06.10 19:32:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Mithrasith
It would have been way more successful if they had taken the Tribes franchise and moved into CCP.

Jet Packs +meaningful combat and the fun of Tribes would have been ub3r w1n

Of course they would have had to solve the problem with console controllers and Tribes controls which never matched up (Console controls are not precise enough)..




Tribes is owned by the wonderful guys who brought you Global Agenda. Tribes Online due out soon ish alpha builds are out now.


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